> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
My thoughts exactly. I still play Reach quite often with my girlfriend. I very, very rarely use Sprint
whew its been a while since ive been here, i was wondering what happened to threads like this. i will first say that people called reach “halo” when it had sprint and till this day its still my favorite halo. Not everyone dislikes sprint just as you do so saying the “halo Everyone wants” in your opening message is going a bit too overboard.
There are many more important features that we should be talking about
for example customization, and i made a thread on this a while ago post . I dont like halo 5’s colorful atmosphere and would like a darker tone. Halo 6 on pc since i moved to pc, and to add to that how about implementing a system where player created armors and skins can be put into the game, ones approved by 343 ofcourse as i just got into 3d modeling and though i have a long way to go making spartan armor would be a great test
> 2533274800772611;8477:
> > 2533274855279867;8469:
> > > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > >
> > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > >
> > >
> > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> >
> >
> > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > distance = speedtime
> > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> >
> > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> >
> > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
>
>
> He’s not saying that you are actually moving slower. He is saying that proportionally to the map you are. It’s an important difference. Yes, sprinting makes you technically faster, but when they make maps bigger to account for sprint your average speed in relation to the map is actually slower. It takes you longer to get places.
I’m not so sure that’s true…
Quoting here: “How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.”
That doesn’t sound like a good understanding of whats going on to me.
> 2533274943854776;8472:
> > 2533274855279867;8469:
> > > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > >
> > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > >
> > >
> > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> >
> >
> > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > distance = speedtime
> > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> >
> > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> >
> > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
>
>
> How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
As mentioned you can use in-game objects to understand the scale. A warthog has not changed its size to any large degree over any of the games. If you need to you can check that with forge.
Based on what you’re saying here, to go back to the math, if walking to the park and driving to work take the same amount of time then walking and driving must be the same speed. Which is utter nonsense.
The experience isn’t dissimilar to why 40 miles per hour feels really fast in a school zone, but super slow on the free way. The scale of the different drive ways means the speeds and distances are experienced differently… but objectively the numbers are what they are.
> 2533274855279867;8484:
> > 2533274800772611;8477:
> > > 2533274855279867;8469:
> > > > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
>
>
> I’m not so sure that’s true…
>
> Quoting here: “How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.”
>
> That doesn’t sound like a good understanding of whats going on to me.
I have not done any in depth comparisons myself, but other people have. Plus all you have to do is look at Truth compared to Midship. It’s massive.
The time that it takes to get across Midship is comparable to how long it takes to get across Truth while sprinting. Since you are not sprinting for an entire game that means that your average speed will go down, making your movement relative to the map slower.
EDIT: "How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger?"(__I have nothing for this.) "If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3."(What he is saying here is that relative to the map, sprinting is as fast as the BMS in H2 and H3. Therefore, because the H5 BMS is lower than sprinting speed, you have to be moving slower relative to the map.)
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> > > > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > > > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> > > > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> > > > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
> > >
> > >
> > > I touched on the possibility of pressure to release Halo 2 in that post. As far as I know, Halo 3’s development didn’t suffer from huge cuts or change of plans as we all know Halo 2 did. That was likely because they were better prepared in terms of getting things done on time. Had sprint been something they really wanted to include since Halo 2, they probably would have tested it right away at thestart of Halo 3s development.
> > >
> > > I’m not sure why you say Bungie was any more “free to do what they wanted” with Reach than with Halo 3. It took the same amount of time and was arguably a larger game all around. Did they say there was less pressure with Reach?
> >
> >
> > I dont think they did say, but being done with the trilogy certainly relieved some pressure creatively. Its a new game with new characters, there’s freedom there to do something new with abilities that might feel more dramatic. Its halo, but a different halo than the trilogy, so why not dredge up some old ideas they chopped for [reasons] and go nuts with the equipment from halo 3?
> >
> > Being good enough for reach but cut from 2 makes you wonder what they were thinking.
>
>
> I don’t really wonder. Seems obvious to be that they used Reach as a testing ground for what they wanted to do with Destiny. They were calling it the “definitive Halo game” even with game changing additions like bloom, armor abilities, and loadouts, so that didn’t make any sense. It was the last Halo game they had to make, after that they didn’t have to worry about it, so why not test new ideas in a full game? Had sprint really been something they thought would be particularly good, they would’ve added it as a base ability.
Yeah, they probably were testing things out. Reach was the best place to test things. Halo 2 was the first good testing ground being that it was only the first sequel and they weren’t looking back at years of precedence for gameplay. Reach the next best once the trilogy was over (odst too, but that was built off of the Halo 3 engine in a pretty short period of time, so I dunno how much experimenting they were able to do). And this takes us right back to why was it cut in the first place. We cannot know because we haven’t yet seen anything definitive. Halo 2 was pushed out in a hurriedly finished state (though still -Yoink!- good). halo 3 was more halo 2 but on the next console. and Reach, though very familiar in many ways, also contained some of the biggest departures from what was done in previous halos- because the trilogy was over? because it was their last halo game? who knows.
you say it would have been something added had it been particularly good… and yet we see it in Destiny. Doesn’t that say that sprint is something they’ve wanted to do all along but couldn’t fit into the games for [reasons].
I would like to know those reasons rather than speculate. But no documentation for it exists so far as I’ve seen. after-the-fact interviews or tweet might be interesting, but I wouldn’t give them much credence so many years later, humans being what we are.
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > >
> > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > >
> > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > >
> > >
> > > He’s not saying that you are actually moving slower. He is saying that proportionally to the map you are. It’s an important difference. Yes, sprinting makes you technically faster, but when they make maps bigger to account for sprint your average speed in relation to the map is actually slower. It takes you longer to get places.
> >
> >
> > I’m not so sure that’s true…
> >
> > Quoting here: “How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.”
> >
> > That doesn’t sound like a good understanding of whats going on to me.
>
>
> I have not done any in depth comparisons myself, but other people have. Plus all you have to do is look at Truth compared to Midship. It’s massive.
>
> The time that it takes to get across Midship is comparable to how long it takes to get across Truth while sprinting. Since you are not sprinting for an entire game that means that your average speed will go down, making your movement relative to the map slower.
sure. I don’t disagree.
But when someone asks if we can prove things are actually bigger I begin to wonder how well they understand what’s actually going on.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > >
> > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He’s not saying that you are actually moving slower. He is saying that proportionally to the map you are. It’s an important difference. Yes, sprinting makes you technically faster, but when they make maps bigger to account for sprint your average speed in relation to the map is actually slower. It takes you longer to get places.
>
>
> sure. I don’t disagree.
>
> But when someone asks if we can prove things are actually bigger I begin to wonder how well they understand what’s actually going on.
We can prove it in a couple of ways. There are objects that have remained the same size throughout the series. People have used them as measuring tools. You can also just measure the time that it takes to get across the map. It takes longer to get across Truth than it does to get across Midship at BMS. Only when you start to sprint does the time become comparable.
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> > > > > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > > > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > > > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > > > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > > > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > > > > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> > > > > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> > > > > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I touched on the possibility of pressure to release Halo 2 in that post. As far as I know, Halo 3’s development didn’t suffer from huge cuts or change of plans as we all know Halo 2 did. That was likely because they were better prepared in terms of getting things done on time. Had sprint been something they really wanted to include since Halo 2, they probably would have tested it right away at thestart of Halo 3s development.
> > > >
> > > > I’m not sure why you say Bungie was any more “free to do what they wanted” with Reach than with Halo 3. It took the same amount of time and was arguably a larger game all around. Did they say there was less pressure with Reach?
> >
> >
> > I don’t really wonder. Seems obvious to be that they used Reach as a testing ground for what they wanted to do with Destiny. They were calling it the “definitive Halo game” even with game changing additions like bloom, armor abilities, and loadouts, so that didn’t make any sense. It was the last Halo game they had to make, after that they didn’t have to worry about it, so why not test new ideas in a full game? Had sprint really been something they thought would be particularly good, they would’ve added it as a base ability.
>
>
> Yeah, they probably were testing things out. Reach was the best place to test things. Halo 2 was the first good testing ground being that it was only the first sequel and they weren’t looking back at years of precedence for gameplay. Reach the next best once the trilogy was over (odst too, but that was built off of the Halo 3 engine in a pretty short period of time, so I dunno how much experimenting they were able to do). And this takes us right back to why was it cut in the first place. We cannot know because we haven’t yet seen anything definitive. Halo 2 was pushed out in a hurriedly finished state (though still -Yoink!- good). halo 3 was more halo 2 but on the next console. and Reach, though very familiar in many ways, also contained some of the biggest departures from what was done in previous halos- because the trilogy was over? because it was their last halo game? who knows.
>
> you say it would have been something added had it been particularly good… and yet we see it in Destiny. Doesn’t that say that sprint is something they’ve wanted to do all along but couldn’t fit into the games for [reasons].
>
> I would like to know those reasons rather than speculate. But no documentation for it exists so far as I’ve seen. after-the-fact interviews or tweet might be interesting, but I wouldn’t give them much credence so many years later, humans being what we are.
Bungie was usually smart enough to not include things for the sake of it. Sprint is in Destiny because it works in Destiny. Just because Bungie - or most devs - “want” to do something, that doesn’t mean it’s always for the best. Plenty of things sound good on paper, but not in practice, sprint being one of them.
Your reluctance of trusting Bungie (ex) employees still screams denial to me. Acting as if humans are incapable of remembering things after a long period of time if its not documented. Sure…
Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
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> Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
Give them an “Abilities Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
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> > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
>
>
> Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
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> > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> >
> >
> > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
>
>
> Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
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> Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
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> Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
Make a spinoff series following Spartan-IVs. This is what should have been done in the first place.
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> > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > >
> > >
> > > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
> >
> >
> > Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
>
>
> No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
I’ve suggested splitting halo 6 into 3 parts: Classic, new, and warzone purely for the reason that I know you guys will not be happy with one playlist.
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> > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
>
>
> Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
>
> This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
>
> EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.
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> > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
>
>
> Make a spinoff series following Spartan-IVs. This is what should have been done in the first place.
Why? You could make the same argument for halo ce’s evolution to 2.
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> > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
> >
> >
> > No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
>
>
> I’ve suggested splitting halo 6 into 3 parts: Classic, new, and warzone purely for the reason that I know you guys will not be happy with one playlist.
By doing this you are effectively segmenting the (already small) population into three very different playlists that wouldn’t have very much player overlap. Halo 5 already has this problem. Warzone players play Warzone, Arena players play Arena. Stats from sites like Halo tracker already show us that there isn’t much overlap. Adding another level would make it even worse.
On the front page of Waypoint there are threads already complaining about long load times and low playlist populations. This would just make it worse.
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> > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
> >
> >
> > No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
>
>
> I’ve suggested splitting halo 6 into 3 parts: Classic, new, and warzone purely for the reason that I know you guys will not be happy with one playlist.
One unified experience is always preferred, especially with Halos current popularity. Most people that like abilities more will still play a classic style game, even if they don’t enjoy it as much, just like there are classic fans that settle for Halo in its current form. 343 put themselves in this situation of a having a divided fanbase. People say they want a fast paced game, so that’s what they’ll get provided its done properly. Besides, one new classic style game will likely be enough to see if it’s the right way to go. If it’s not, 343 will switch to something different and if it is, then the “abilitites” fans will have to find something new if they don’t like the game.