kind of trying to fiqure out why 343 hasn’t censored this forum
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Who even started this stupid forum
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> Who even started this stupid forum
not stupid and go to the first page
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> > > > Sheesh judging by the first page you got ostracized by the pro sprint crowd OP.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t consider myself in either camp, but something different has to be done. I think if sprint stays then thruster and spartan charge need to leave. Spartan charge actually just needs to go no matter what.
> > > >
> > > > If sprint leaves then perhaps thruster and ground pound could stay. Thruster has changed modern halo into an incredibly evasive and conservatively played game.
> > > >
> > > > Or perhaps we keep sprint, keep Thruster , keep ground pound, but raise the time to kill? When I consider Halo 5 vs. Reach and 3, The first thing I notice is im dying much quicker.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever happens Halo 6 needs to do one thing : Differentiate. What we have right now is the red headed stepchild of modern Cod, titanfall, and Old Halo. It doesn’t work. Pick a direction and stick with it is my opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think it works perfectly. In fact I hope they make very few changes to gameplay for Halo 6.
> >
> >
> > I do not think it works perfectly. I hope they do make changes to the gameplay for Halo 6.
> > What we also have to consider is that you and I’s opinions aren’t the only thing to consider, we need to think about the HUGE amount of people who bought this game and don’t like it,stopped playing it, that DONT post on the forums.
> >
> > It’s a fact that Halo 5 didn’t perform very well when we compare to older Halo games.
>
>
> Exactly, that’s the point I was trying to make. That our opinion of the gameplay is just that, an opinion. The issues most people had with gameplay were about lack of content and not gameplay. Multiple polls have shown that gameplay was generally well favored.
>
> According to 343 Halo 5 has performed better than any other Halo game since Halo 3.
Don’t be naive brother.
Not trying to offend you but that was blatant 343 marketing and bravos claims were proven to be semi fabricated.
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> > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Good job.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > >
> > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > >
> > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > >
> > >
> > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > >
> > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > >
> > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> >
> >
> > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> >
> > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
>
>
> what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
>
> Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
>
> Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
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> > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > >
> > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > >
> > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > >
> > >
> > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > >
> > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> >
> >
> > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> >
> > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> >
> > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
>
>
> But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
Only mathematically.
Being overall slower would impact our ability to strafe for instance.
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> > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > >
> > >
> > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> >
> >
> > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
>
>
> I touched on the possibility of pressure to release Halo 2 in that post. As far as I know, Halo 3’s development didn’t suffer from huge cuts or change of plans as we all know Halo 2 did. That was likely because they were better prepared in terms of getting things done on time. Had sprint been something they really wanted to include since Halo 2, they probably would have tested it right away at thestart of Halo 3s development.
>
> I’m not sure why you say Bungie was any more “free to do what they wanted” with Reach than with Halo 3. It took the same amount of time and was arguably a larger game all around. Did they say there was less pressure with Reach?
I dont think they did say, but being done with the trilogy certainly relieved some pressure creatively. Its a new game with new characters, there’s freedom there to do something new with abilities that might feel more dramatic. Its halo, but a different halo than the trilogy, so why not dredge up some old ideas they chopped for [reasons] and go nuts with the equipment from halo 3?
Being good enough for reach but cut from 2 makes you wonder what they were thinking.
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> > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > >
> > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > >
> > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > >
> > >
> > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > >
> > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> >
> >
> > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> >
> > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> >
> > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
>
>
> But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
distance = speedtime
4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> 2533274807480458;8459:
> > 2533274832130936;8415:
> > > 2533274807480458;8411:
> > > > 2533274846370979;8406:
> > > > Sheesh judging by the first page you got ostracized by the pro sprint crowd OP.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t consider myself in either camp, but something different has to be done. I think if sprint stays then thruster and spartan charge need to leave. Spartan charge actually just needs to go no matter what.
> > > >
> > > > If sprint leaves then perhaps thruster and ground pound could stay. Thruster has changed modern halo into an incredibly evasive and conservatively played game.
> > > >
> > > > Or perhaps we keep sprint, keep Thruster , keep ground pound, but raise the time to kill? When I consider Halo 5 vs. Reach and 3, The first thing I notice is im dying much quicker.
> > > >
> > > > Whatever happens Halo 6 needs to do one thing : Differentiate. What we have right now is the red headed stepchild of modern Cod, titanfall, and Old Halo. It doesn’t work. Pick a direction and stick with it is my opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think it works perfectly. In fact I hope they make very few changes to gameplay for Halo 6.
> >
> >
> > Why?
> > So that game can have less than 30,000 people
> > playing it nine months after launch too?
>
>
> That’s definitely more of a function of the game being fairly barren at launch than a gameplay issue. In fact Halo 5’s gameplay has been more highly praised by players and critics than any halo previously.
I would love to see a quote or reference or a link backing that statement up that didn’t come from either a 343i employee themselves or from a site that was paid to give them a good review ie IGN (seriously how did IGN give this game a 9.5 at launch?)
> 2533274855279867;8469:
> > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > >
> > >
> > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > >
> > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > >
> > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> >
> >
> > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
>
>
> no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> distance = speedtime
> 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
>
> Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
>
> Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
Sprinting doesn’t make you faster when the maps are stretched out causing the time travelled to be equal to pre-sprint speeds
also base movement speed had to be lowered to acomidate sprint in halo
so you’re actually moving slower when you don’t sprint than you were in past halos and when you combine slow BMS and high bullet magnetism it makes strafing more difficult then it should be
> 2533274855279867;8469:
> > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > >
> > >
> > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > >
> > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > >
> > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> >
> >
> > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
>
>
> no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> distance = speedtime
> 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
>
> Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
>
> Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> 2533274943854776;8472:
> How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
You can objectively measure the distance with vehicles of which we know the length. I previously did this with all other Halo games, but I quit H5G before forge was released. Might return to do that at a later point, probably when I’m done with the MCC. (Which might take me some time… Halo 2 LASO… ugh…)
> 2533274801176260;8473:
> > 2533274943854776;8472:
> > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
>
>
> You can objectively measure the distance with vehicles of which we know the length. I previously did this with all other Halo games, but I quit H5G before forge was released. Might return to do that at a later point, probably when I’m done with the MCC. (Which might take me some time… Halo 2 LASO… ugh…)
Yeah, but they could have done something to the overall scales. And good luck with the H2 LASO(have fun)…
> 2533274943854776;8474:
> > 2533274801176260;8473:
> > > 2533274943854776;8472:
> > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> >
> >
> > You can objectively measure the distance with vehicles of which we know the length. I previously did this with all other Halo games, but I quit H5G before forge was released. Might return to do that at a later point, probably when I’m done with the MCC. (Which might take me some time… Halo 2 LASO… ugh…)
>
>
> Yeah, but they could have done something to the overall scales. And good luck with the H2 LASO(have fun)…
Well, previously (until Halo 3, I think) the lengths of the vehicles was mentioned in the instruction booklets that came with the games.
Since then, measurements can be taken from the Halo Encyclopedia or data drops on the websites.
It’s not perfect, but at least it gives a somewhat consistent system of units, instead of wild guessing if the speed decreased or the maps got blown up.
> 2533274855279867;8468:
> > 2533274819567236;8461:
> > > 2533274855279867;8458:
> > > > 2533274819567236;8456:
> > > > > 2533274816931642;8450:
> > > > > > 2533274801176260;8425:
> > > > > > > 2533274816931642;8316:
> > > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> > >
> > >
> > > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> > > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> > > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
> >
> >
> > I touched on the possibility of pressure to release Halo 2 in that post. As far as I know, Halo 3’s development didn’t suffer from huge cuts or change of plans as we all know Halo 2 did. That was likely because they were better prepared in terms of getting things done on time. Had sprint been something they really wanted to include since Halo 2, they probably would have tested it right away at thestart of Halo 3s development.
> >
> > I’m not sure why you say Bungie was any more “free to do what they wanted” with Reach than with Halo 3. It took the same amount of time and was arguably a larger game all around. Did they say there was less pressure with Reach?
>
>
> I dont think they did say, but being done with the trilogy certainly relieved some pressure creatively. Its a new game with new characters, there’s freedom there to do something new with abilities that might feel more dramatic. Its halo, but a different halo than the trilogy, so why not dredge up some old ideas they chopped for [reasons] and go nuts with the equipment from halo 3?
>
> Being good enough for reach but cut from 2 makes you wonder what they were thinking.
I don’t really wonder. Seems obvious to be that they used Reach as a testing ground for what they wanted to do with Destiny. They were calling it the “definitive Halo game” even with game changing additions like bloom, armor abilities, and loadouts, so that didn’t make any sense. It was the last Halo game they had to make, after that they didn’t have to worry about it, so why not test new ideas in a full game? Had sprint really been something they thought would be particularly good, they would’ve added it as a base ability.
> 2533274855279867;8469:
> > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > >
> > >
> > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > >
> > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > >
> > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> >
> >
> > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
>
>
> no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> distance = speedtime
> 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
>
> Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
>
> Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
He’s not saying that you are actually moving slower. He is saying that proportionally to the map you are. It’s an important difference. Yes, sprinting makes you technically faster, but when they make maps bigger to account for sprint your average speed in relation to the map is actually slower. It takes you longer to get places.
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Why on Earth is this thread still a thing?
> 2533274943854776;8472:
> > 2533274855279867;8469:
> > > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > >
> > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > >
> > >
> > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> >
> >
> > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > distance = speedtime
> > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> >
> > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> >
> > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
>
>
> How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> 2535465811043961;8478:
> Why on Earth is this thread still a thing?
I know, why sprint is still a thing in Halo.
> 2535448502262293;8464:
> > 2535469157500101;8463:
> > Who even started this stupid forum
>
>
> not stupid and go to the first page
He is say people who made Waypoint is stupid. Look at the word “forum”.