> 2535443674201980;8421:
> I wish I could sprint faster, slide faster, and boost further. It feels incredible to move so quickly and fluidly. I enjoy every aspect of the H5 fast pace. If anything, get rid of slowing me to a crawl when I take a bullet in the shield.
I think the sliding mechanic in Titanfall 2 where you gain momentum by sliding down slopes should be implemented in Halo 6. Check it out if you don’t know what i mean.
I hope they keep sprint. Every time I play Halo 3 or Master Chief collection I miss not being able to run faster. I think if they could they should bring it into Halo master chief collection as an update to sprint in the older games, I mean they already re-mastered it so well.
> 2533274825830455;8302:
> First of all, the whole the validity of the statement “lost X% of players” based on any arbitrary population figure (daily peak, 24 hour UU, weekly UU, monthly UU, etc.) would warrant a whole separate discussion of its own. “Lost X% of players” implies that X% quit playing altogether, but it should be clear that the peak population in no way describes how many players quit. After all, if all players take away 30% of their daily play time, this will have a diminishing effect on the daily peak population, but I think we can agree that this in no way means that any amount of players have quit playing. To answer the question: “what portion of players actually quit?” we’d first need to define what counts as “quitting”. Has a player who only plays once a month on average “quit”? Once a year? Once a week? Where do we draw the line. This is a very complicated thing to agree on, and after we have agreed on that, we don’t have the data. It’s not possible to infer solely from peak population data how many players have quit altogether.
>
> [snip]
>
> And this is why I kindly ask, as much as I wouldn’t want to toot my own horn, next time you need to reference Halo 4 population data (or any Halo population data for that matter), please do me a favor and use the data I’ve gathered, organized, and analyzed, not to drive any agenda, but because I was genuinely curious.
On the other hand, how would it be possible for the peak population to decrease without the overall number of players to do as well? If one gamer plays for X hours, his playtime will overlap with a certain amount of other people playing. At some point during 24 hours, this overlap is maximal, and this is where that value is recorded. If the number of players stayed the same, the amount of time X that they play would need to decrease in order to account for a lower max population. This time decrease cannot sink arbitrarily low, with the low-end minimum being the time it takes to complete one match, which is ~6 minutes (not counting booting the game and search time). Players that change their playing habit from weekdays to weekends will skew the curve shape towards a rise on weekends, which actually can be obeserved in the final weeks of the graphs. It is the weekend max UUs that rise above 20k, so we already accounted for that by taking the upper estimate instead of the lower one.
Now I fully admit that in the heat of the moment, I misworded myself by inferring that 95% of the population left. But, while it is not a direct proportionality between the population and the max UUs (and not even to the 24 hours cumulative players), there is still a strong correlation that can be used to at least indicate a trendline, which in the end was all that I was going for, as I merely wanted to show that Halo 4 also suffered a strong decline without the issues of lacking content and bad story (which doesn’t effect multiplayer that much anyways). However, now that you linked your data, I added a bookmark to it on my browser (I did read it previously, but just couldn’t find it later on) and will try to use that as a basis for future arguments from here on out.
> 2533274816931642;8316:
> Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> 2533274807480458;8411:
> > 2533274846370979;8406:
> > Sheesh judging by the first page you got ostracized by the pro sprint crowd OP.
> >
> > I wouldn’t consider myself in either camp, but something different has to be done. I think if sprint stays then thruster and spartan charge need to leave. Spartan charge actually just needs to go no matter what.
> >
> > If sprint leaves then perhaps thruster and ground pound could stay. Thruster has changed modern halo into an incredibly evasive and conservatively played game.
> >
> > Or perhaps we keep sprint, keep Thruster , keep ground pound, but raise the time to kill? When I consider Halo 5 vs. Reach and 3, The first thing I notice is im dying much quicker.
> >
> > Whatever happens Halo 6 needs to do one thing : Differentiate. What we have right now is the red headed stepchild of modern Cod, titanfall, and Old Halo. It doesn’t work. Pick a direction and stick with it is my opinion.
>
>
> I think it works perfectly. In fact I hope they make very few changes to gameplay for Halo 6.
I do not think it works perfectly. I hope they do make changes to the gameplay for Halo 6.
What we also have to consider is that you and I’s opinions aren’t the only thing to consider, we need to think about the HUGE amount of people who bought this game and don’t like it,stopped playing it, that DONT post on the forums.
It’s a fact that Halo 5 didn’t perform very well when we compare to older Halo games.
Sprint is good and should never ever be removed.
> 2535423263809346;8427:
> Sprint is good and should never ever be removed.
Normal gameplay was good too - The Sprint discussion is just a Bad debate… *time to make a Halo without Sprint again *
Sprint has made this game relevant again. I agree that there is more skill involved with no sprinting because having to be able to land shots under pressure, however I believe the sprint and the thruster ability has made this game so great. This has been the best online competitive halo since halo 3.
Can we keep the thread alive? I’d like to see it out grow the elite thread. Did I spell that correctly? Muwawa
-Yoink- off
> 2533274846068053;8429:
> Sprint has made this game relevant again. I agree that there is more skill involved with no sprinting because having to be able to land shots under pressure, however I believe the sprint and the thruster ability has made this game so great. This has been the best online competitive halo since halo 3.
How sprint makes this game relevant? By relevant, what does being relevant mean? Why Halo needs to be relevant to other shooters?
> 2533274846068053;8429:
> Sprint has made this game relevant again. I agree that there is more skill involved with no sprinting because having to be able to land shots under pressure, however I believe the sprint and the thruster ability has made this game so great. This has been the best online competitive halo since halo 3.
That makes little sense. Halo has gotten less relevant ever since it added sprint.
> 2533274819567236;8353:
> > 2533274855279867;8325:
> > > 2533274819567236;8262:
> > > > 2533274855279867;8259:
> > > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > > >
> > > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> > >
> > >
> > > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274855279867;8260:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;8252:
> > > > > > 2535466914543129;8250:
> > > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> > >
> > >
> > > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
> >
> >
> > I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
> >
> > As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
> >
> > Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
> >
> > See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.
>
>
> Gameplay made Halo as popular as it was. Story was a close second at best.
>
> Fallout 4 is not a shooter, it’s a role playing game. You can argue it, like I know you will, but you’ll still be wrong. Your Borderlands example is the result of player expectations of what they got from the series previously. It’s different from Halo 5 because Halo 5’s gameplay is still criticised in additions to its lack of content and poor story. And Reach and H4 had the content and story, but the gameplay gives them a bad reputation and resulted in a large population drop.
>
> Gameplay is more important in FPS than story or content. You can keep being wrong if you’d like, but it won’t change anything.
Role Playing game is not an exclusive genre. Action Rpg… Strategy Rpg… Fps Rpg (heard of Destiny?).
Fallout 4 is a shooter. Fallout 3 wasnt to the same degree given you had to use vats to be successful in many many cases, but Fallout 4 has no such requirement. The shooting is great. It is a shooter. It just doesnt rely on shooting for its gameplay. It is also an RPG. And while Borderlands was a result of player expectations- its still about content and story, they expected more in the game and complained about it.
As for halo. Yes, the gameplay was its highlight. Thats the general reason for halo success. But that isnt the argument. You said in FPS gameplay is first, not halo.That is absolutely incorrect.
That halo relies on its shooting mechanics is historical fact- it was lauded for them. But it was also highly praised for its storyand lore. So which is more important is a matter of opinion. Different people place importance on different things. If you want to get less subjective you would need to be more specific. Online population relies on gameplay, as you mentioned with Reach. But wasnt Reach an issue of expectations? Vets expected more halo 3 and didnt quite get it?
> 2533274801176260;8424:
> > 2533274825830455;8302:
> > First of all, the whole the validity of the statement “lost X% of players” based on any arbitrary population figure (daily peak, 24 hour UU, weekly UU, monthly UU, etc.) would warrant a whole separate discussion of its own. “Lost X% of players” implies that X% quit playing altogether, but it should be clear that the peak population in no way describes how many players quit. After all, if all players take away 30% of their daily play time, this will have a diminishing effect on the daily peak population, but I think we can agree that this in no way means that any amount of players have quit playing. To answer the question: “what portion of players actually quit?” we’d first need to define what counts as “quitting”. Has a player who only plays once a month on average “quit”? Once a year? Once a week? Where do we draw the line. This is a very complicated thing to agree on, and after we have agreed on that, we don’t have the data. It’s not possible to infer solely from peak population data how many players have quit altogether.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > And this is why I kindly ask, as much as I wouldn’t want to toot my own horn, next time you need to reference Halo 4 population data (or any Halo population data for that matter), please do me a favor and use the data I’ve gathered, organized, and analyzed, not to drive any agenda, but because I was genuinely curious.
>
>
> On the other hand, how would it be possible for the peak population to decrease without the overall number of players to do as well? If one gamer plays for X hours, his playtime will overlap with a certain amount of other people playing. At some point during 24 hours, this overlap is maximal, and this is where that value is recorded. If the number of players stayed the same, the amount of time X that they play would need to decrease in order to account for a lower max population. This time decrease cannot sink arbitrarily low, with the low-end minimum being the time it takes to complete one match, which is ~6 minutes (not counting booting the game and search time). Players that change their playing habit from weekdays to weekends will skew the curve shape towards a rise on weekends, which actually can be obeserved in the final weeks of the graphs. It is the weekend max UUs that rise above 20k, so we already accounted for that by taking the upper estimate instead of the lower one.
>
> Now I fully admit that in the heat of the moment, I misworded myself by inferring that 95% of the population left. But, while it is not a direct proportionality between the population and the max UUs (and not even to the 24 hours cumulative players), there is still a strong correlation that can be used to at least indicate a trendline, which in the end was all that I was going for, as I merely wanted to show that Halo 4 also suffered a strong decline without the issues of lacking content and bad story (which doesn’t effect multiplayer that much anyways). However, now that you linked your data, I added a bookmark to it on my browser (I did read it previously, but just couldn’t find it later on) and will try to use that as a basis for future arguments from here on out.
peak population can decrease if players change habits. 365 players play a game daily. Peak population is at 365. then they change to every other day at different times. Peak population for that time is now 100. Then each player only plays once a year on their birthday. Peak population is 5 because of shared birthdays. Still the same group of 365 players.
> 2533274801176260;8424:
> On the other hand, how would it be possible for the peak population to decrease without the overall number of players to do as well? If one gamer plays for X hours, his playtime will overlap with a certain amount of other people playing. At some point during 24 hours, this overlap is maximal, and this is where that value is recorded. If the number of players stayed the same, the amount of time X that they play would need to decrease in order to account for a lower max population. This time decrease cannot sink arbitrarily low, with the low-end minimum being the time it takes to complete one match, which is ~6 minutes (not counting booting the game and search time). Players that change their playing habit from weekdays to weekends will skew the curve shape towards a rise on weekends, which actually can be obeserved in the final weeks of the graphs. It is the weekend max UUs that rise above 20k, so we already accounted for that by taking the upper estimate instead of the lower one.
Consider this simplified scenario: we have N players each of which logs in for some fraction T of the length of a day at an arbitrary time. What is the average number of overlapping players at any given time? The probability of finding any given player online at some moment in time is T/(1 + T) (to explain the 1 + T, consider a player signing in at 23:59). The probability of finding k players online is given by the binomial distribution with p = T/(1 + T). And as we know, the expected value of k is Np, which is a strictly increasing function of T. So, we can decrease the expected value of players found at any given time by decreasing T, without touching the total number of players.
Now, of course there are many things here which don’t hold up in the real world. But I hope this shows that it’s indeed possible for players playing fewer hours per day to decrease the expected population at any given time (and therefore also at the peak time) even when the total amount of players per day remains constant.
> 2533274801176260;8424:
> Now I fully admit that in the heat of the moment, I misworded myself by inferring that 95% of the population left. But, while it is not a direct proportionality between the population and the max UUs (and not even to the 24 hours cumulative players), there is still a strong correlation that can be used to at least indicate a trendline, which in the end was all that I was going for, as I merely wanted to show that Halo 4 also suffered a strong decline without the issues of lacking content and bad story (which doesn’t effect multiplayer that much anyways). However, now that you linked your data, I added a bookmark to it on my browser (I did read it previously, but just couldn’t find it later on) and will try to use that as a basis for future arguments from here on out.
There’s definitely a correlation, but that wasn’t really my main concern. My main concern are actually people who take what you said literally without any sanity checks, and then go around declaring that Halo 4 only had 20,000 players in total after one year. I’ve seen way too many of those people, and I at least try to prevent sensible people from spreading that any further.
But thanks for considering using my collection of data in the future. When it comes to the facts, I think this community needs neutral sources more than anything.
> 2533274855279867;8434:
> > 2533274819567236;8353:
> > > 2533274855279867;8325:
> > > > 2533274819567236;8262:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8259:
> > > > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8260:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;8252:
> > > > > > > 2535466914543129;8250:
> > > > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
> > >
> > > As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
> > >
> > > Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
> > >
> > > See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.
> >
> >
> > Gameplay made Halo as popular as it was. Story was a close second at best.
> >
> > Fallout 4 is not a shooter, it’s a role playing game. You can argue it, like I know you will, but you’ll still be wrong. Your Borderlands example is the result of player expectations of what they got from the series previously. It’s different from Halo 5 because Halo 5’s gameplay is still criticised in additions to its lack of content and poor story. And Reach and H4 had the content and story, but the gameplay gives them a bad reputation and resulted in a large population drop.
> >
> > Gameplay is more important in FPS than story or content. You can keep being wrong if you’d like, but it won’t change anything.
>
>
> Role Playing game is not an exclusive genre. Action Rpg… Strategy Rpg… Fps Rpg (heard of Destiny?).
>
> Fallout 4 is a shooter. Fallout 3 wasnt to the same degree given you had to use vats to be successful in many many cases, but Fallout 4 has no such requirement. The shooting is great. It is a shooter. It just doesnt rely on shooting for its gameplay. It is also an RPG. And while Borderlands was a result of player expectations- its still about content and story, they expected more in the game and complained about it.
>
> As for halo. Yes, the gameplay was its highlight. Thats the general reason for halo success. But that isnt the argument. You said in FPS gameplay is first, not halo.That is absolutely incorrect.
>
> That halo relies on its shooting mechanics is historical fact- it was lauded for them. But it was also highly praised for its storyand lore. So which is more important is a matter of opinion. Different people place importance on different things. If you want to get less subjective you would need to be more specific. Online population relies on gameplay, as you mentioned with Reach. But wasnt Reach an issue of expectations? Vets expected more halo 3 and didnt quite get it?
Fallout is an RPG with shooting in it. That doesn’t make it an FPS. It’s an Action RPG.
It still applies to Halo. When making an FPS, you focus on gameplay first if you want it to resonate with a large audience, not story and content, those come second (somebody already gave Overwatch as an example). People don’t go to FPS games for the story, they play them for the gameplay. A good story is a bonus. The 1 in 50 people that feel otherwise don’t matter in this argument because they’re not the larger audience.
Expectations only matter in regards to content and maybe story, things that are expected to be there. Good gameplay is a matter of opinion even if the larger audience doesn’t favor it.
> 2533274928710760;8422:
> > 2535443674201980;8421:
> > I wish I could sprint faster, slide faster, and boost further. It feels incredible to move so quickly and fluidly. I enjoy every aspect of the H5 fast pace. If anything, get rid of slowing me to a crawl when I take a bullet in the shield.
>
>
> I think the sliding mechanic in Titanfall 2 where you gain momentum by sliding down slopes should be implemented in Halo 6. Check it out if you don’t know what i mean.
They already had that in H5.
343 removed it.
> 2533274816931642;8392:
> > 2533274955093408;8388:
> > > 2535414876585185;1:
> > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > Thoughts? :3
> >
> >
> > What is the big deal about sprint I like it
>
>
> It’s a cool idea, but it hurts Halo’s gameplay.
How?
> 2533274827519891;8:
> > 2535414876585185;3:
> > but thats the thing we are still keeping sprint, its there its still an option and if you wanted to play with it you could play warzone or custom games. thing is halos 1-3 were fine without sprint in the campaign and the arena aspect. What does sprint bring to those gamemodes that improve on the experience and dont just take away from it?
>
>
> it improves by being able to get to a spot slightly faster? is that not the obvious answer?
Fun fact halo 3’s walking is much faster than halo 5 walking, the maps are stretched out just so they can have sprint, It litterally adds nothing to the game except for feeling faster
> 2533274846068053;8429:
> Sprint has made this game relevant again. I agree that there is more skill involved with no sprinting because having to be able to land shots under pressure, however I believe the sprint and the thruster ability has made this game so great. This has been the best online competitive halo since halo 3.
not much competition with reach and 4 LOL