The sprint discussion thread

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> > > The thing i always come back to is do you honestly believe a return to classic mechanics will just automatically bring back the masses?..
> >
> >
> > I know the question wasn’t directed at me specifically, but…
> >
> > Do I believe it? Yes.
> > Can I guarantee it? No.
> > But if the last few games have proven anything, then it is that not going back to classic Halo gameplay won’t bring back the masses.
> > So at this point, the logical thing to do is try and find out.
>
>
> Exactly. 343i’s “vision” of Halo has failed on most accounts. It’s time that they accept that and go back to what made Halo a great and special game. I feel like I say this a lot, but it still need to be said. The classic Halo formula never died. Halo only died after Bungie and 343i started to mess with it.

Preach it!

over 8600 replies, this is page 418.The fact will never change…
sprint will stay forever if you like it or not, so get used to it or you will never be happy with where halo is going.

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> over 8600 replies, this is page 418.The fact will never change…
> sprint will stay forever if you like it or not, so get used to it or you will never be happy with where halo is going.

The fact that the thread is so big should tell 343 that it’s still an issue. Can you give me next week’s lotto numbers since you can see the future?

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> > over 8600 replies, this is page 418.The fact will never change…
> > sprint will stay forever if you like it or not, so get used to it or you will never be happy with where halo is going.
>
>
> The fact that the thread is so big should tell 343 that it’s still an issue. Can you give me next week’s lotto numbers since you can see the future?

this thread is just a series of replies saying that sprint will need to stay, the only reason it became so popular is because of all the youtube attention it has received. I am not predicting the future, halo 5 will always have sprint. This thread even with 8600 replies will never change the way halo 5 is, halo 5 is built around sprint.

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> > > The thing i always come back to is do you honestly believe a return to classic mechanics will just automatically bring back the masses?..
> >
> >
> > I know the question wasn’t directed at me specifically, but…
> >
> > Do I believe it? Yes.
> > Can I guarantee it? No.
> > But if the last few games have proven anything, then it is that not going back to classic Halo gameplay won’t bring back the masses.
> > So at this point, the logical thing to do is try and find out.
>
>
> I suppose, but i just have a hard time believing the slower style of game play will just bring back the masses of individuals who either have adopted the new gameplay style or moved on.
>
> Besides, the game play IMO inst really the problem here, its the story direction and lack of variety at launch that i think has people more up in arms.

What was the problem with Halo 4, then, because it had a sound, though dubious, story?

There is a plot twist that will salvage the story. I’ll give Halo 6’s campaign one chance. If I like it, then I’ll buy a copy–as long as there’s split-screen.

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> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve seen footage, but never an official source for “pacing issues”. I’m curious what bungie was trying, because there are definitey parts of h2 campaign that would be great with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That’s because Bungie never came out and said that sprint ruins the pacing because if that was the case then why would they include it in Reach? The “claim” comes from a youtuber that claims to have spoken to a developer. Speaking of developers, who wants a new Halo dev?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It wouldn’t be hard to confirm whether or not he’s telling the truth. He told us the name of the employee who told him that. Had he simply said, “an ex-Bungie employee told me this” without mentioning a name, then there would be reason not to believe. Plus, there’s this, where one of the animators confirms it and provides closest thing to proof as one could. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy theory, it’s just about whether or not a mechanic was cut from a game from 12 years ago, there’s nothing to hide. Skeptical? Then go ask the employee yourself. Otherwise, it’s just denial.
> > > > > > > > > BTW, Bungie was already mentally checked out by Reach. They used Reach as a testing ground for Destiny. Can’t say I’m surprised you hadn’t noticed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Denial? No one is denying that the animation exists or that it was created by Bungie. But the lack of source for why it was cut is the issue. Even if it was cut due to “pacing issue” what does that mean? Campaign pacing? Development Pacing? PvP pacing?
> > > > > > > > Then to say that Reach doesn’t count is just as much of a denial. It seems to me, given the quote you link to about bungie being slammed with Halo 3, they solved their “pacing issues” satisfactorily with reach. You could then contend that Halo 2 and possibly 3 would have had sprint had the solution been available earlier.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like I said, go ask the employee.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ll just call him right up… oh yeah. He said it was nonsense. Sprint was scrapped because Microsoft wanted halo to remain unique from other shooters. It had nothing to do with pacing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From what I can gather, there was no reason given by the developers to why it was cut in Halo 2. It is more logical that it was cut was because of pacing and how it could influence gameplay. It being scrapped because of Microsoft is more logical today with how 343 and Microsoft work than Bungie and Microsoft back in the early 2000s. Unless either side calls up a developer, then both sides don’t have a complete argument, but logically the anti-sprint camp has more logical arguments to remove sprint, than anyone wanting sprint to stay. Not to mention there is a large group of people against sprint, and many of the polls even show there is more of a stance against sprint than for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was being facetious when I invoked Microsoft. I don’t doubt that pacing is the reason, but we have no idea what pacing means in this context. It could have been the pacing of development, or triggered events in the levels, or the times it took to travel on certain levels and how that interacted with the music… etc etc etc.
> > > >
> > > > To argue that pacing must mean the flow of PvP is unfounded.
> > >
> > >
> > > You could avoid having to explain yourself by stating that you’re playing Devil’s Advocate.
> > >
> > > To argue that pacing must refer to campaign design is equally unfounded.
> >
> >
> > Sure. Which is why I never suggested that it MUST refer to anything. A more careful reading would make my position clearer I believe. I thought it was fairly obvious that I was playing the Devil’s Advocate with the way I phrase things.
>
>
> I didn’t realize that you were playing Devil’s Advocate when we first spoke. It was only after you revealed that I didn’t know what your actual position was that I realized what you were doing. If I hadn’t had that experience, then I wouldn’t have recognized it here. What is clear to you is not always apparent to others, especially when all they have to go on is text from someone who is a stranger to them. You do a disservice to your efforts by not demonstrating transparency. There are all kinds of people out there, including those who fail to think for themselves. Don’t act surprised when you are mistaken for one such person because of how you come across.
>
> Actually, your series of arguments indirectly supports the notion that pacing must mean campaign design. Why not simply state what you think it might be, and why you think it might be that? Anything outside of that simply clutters up the dialogue.

quoth myself, “It could have been the pacing of development…”

Could have been. Not must have been. You might be a stranger to me, but the text is there. And, for the most part, the meaning of the words I use is clear and unambiguous. The issue is not my choice of words, but rather the reading of them. I am never surprised when someone fails to read properly… but always saddened.

As for the indirect support of campaign design… I suppose that makes more sense to me after putting thought into it. It was not an opinion I had formed when I first queried what Bungie was doing during development. I might argue it now, but aside from a sense given by how early the animations for sprint were created as well as their mode of initiation (they turn on after a few moments of moving forward was what I think the video said was the original design- that sounds like a campaign thing more than PvP if we consider maps sizes) we don’t have much to go on. It could just as well been a campaign choice to include sprint that was later nixed when the multiplayer guys said, “Pacing issues campaign guys. You just made a bunch of pacing issues.”

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> this thread is just a series of replies saying that sprint will need to stay, the only reason it became so popular is because of all the youtube attention it has received. I am not predicting the future, halo 5 will always have sprint. This thread even with 8600 replies will never change the way halo 5 is, halo 5 is built around sprint.

It’s also built around replies listing the reasons why sprint should go. I’d bet if someone went through this thread they would find more logical reasons for its removal compared to why it should stay. I didn’t know about the Youtube attention.

Myself and I’m sure most everyone else aren’t asking for it to be removed in H5 because we know the game was built around it. We’re talking about H6 and beyond.

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> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve seen footage, but never an official source for “pacing issues”. I’m curious what bungie was trying, because there are definitey parts of h2 campaign that would be great with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That’s because Bungie never came out and said that sprint ruins the pacing because if that was the case then why would they include it in Reach? The “claim” comes from a youtuber that claims to have spoken to a developer. Speaking of developers, who wants a new Halo dev?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It wouldn’t be hard to confirm whether or not he’s telling the truth. He told us the name of the employee who told him that. Had he simply said, “an ex-Bungie employee told me this” without mentioning a name, then there would be reason not to believe. Plus, there’s this, where one of the animators confirms it and provides closest thing to proof as one could. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy theory, it’s just about whether or not a mechanic was cut from a game from 12 years ago, there’s nothing to hide. Skeptical? Then go ask the employee yourself. Otherwise, it’s just denial.
> > > > > > > > > BTW, Bungie was already mentally checked out by Reach. They used Reach as a testing ground for Destiny. Can’t say I’m surprised you hadn’t noticed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Denial? No one is denying that the animation exists or that it was created by Bungie. But the lack of source for why it was cut is the issue. Even if it was cut due to “pacing issue” what does that mean? Campaign pacing? Development Pacing? PvP pacing?
> > > > > > > > Then to say that Reach doesn’t count is just as much of a denial. It seems to me, given the quote you link to about bungie being slammed with Halo 3, they solved their “pacing issues” satisfactorily with reach. You could then contend that Halo 2 and possibly 3 would have had sprint had the solution been available earlier.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like I said, go ask the employee.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ll just call him right up… oh yeah. He said it was nonsense. Sprint was scrapped because Microsoft wanted halo to remain unique from other shooters. It had nothing to do with pacing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > He has a twitter. Not hard to figure out. If you made the effort to even google his name, you’d know this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why tweet him when I can call him. Thats like facebook messaging someone in the same room. So lame.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I’d know a lot of things if I googled stufff. Duh. Thats, like, so obvious.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then do whatever. You’re the one that needs convincing.
> >
> >
> > Its not really about convincing me. “Pacing Issues” is too vague to mean any one thing. And asking an art guy 10 years after the fact isn’t going to be terribly illuminating unless the pacing was directly related to getting the art assets done. Taking about pacing at the early stages of development doesn’t mean much. It might have had nothing to do with PvP but rather the timing of triggered events campaign like the scarabs moving through the city. And given the relative crudeness of the animations I’m guessing it was too early in the process to be well documented in video or interviews from the time, which would be the best sources.
>
>
> Sprint could’ve affected rendering and triggered events, definitely. Why wasn’t it put into multiplayer?

I think bungie was trying to make sure that all modes played the same? I haven’t seen too many games where the multiplayer and campaign are different. I think it can work- splinter cell did an ok job with separate campaigns and PvP… I honestly wish halo would do that. Develop a deep campaign with crazy abilities and roleplaying levels and loot and… just ALL the stuff.

and let multiplayer be halo.

Except for warzone. Let warzone be warzone with all the crazy stuff like in reach, with some ODST thrown in.

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> > this thread is just a series of replies saying that sprint will need to stay, the only reason it became so popular is because of all the youtube attention it has received. I am not predicting the future, halo 5 will always have sprint. This thread even with 8600 replies will never change the way halo 5 is, halo 5 is built around sprint.
>
>
> It’s also built around replies listing the reasons why sprint should go. I’d bet if someone went through this thread they would find more logical reasons for its removal compared to why it should stay. I didn’t know about the Youtube attention.
>
> Myself and I’m sure most everyone else aren’t asking for it to be removed in H5 because we know the game was built around it. We’re talking about H6 and beyond.

I think by “logical” you mean “subjective and preferential.”

It cannot currently be shown that sprint is the problem with halo outside of people expressing their opinions.

How is a map being stretched to accommodate sprint an opinion?

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> > > > Thanks to H3 having no major changes from H2 it’s not easy to get people to see that every new Halo was different from the last.
> > > > Sprintless Halo isn’t better, just a bunch of angry sticks in the mudd like it better.
> > > > Oh, no! the perfect ideal Halo core mechanics are ruined! (HCE to H2&H3, H3 to Reach, Reach to H4, H4 to H5)
> > > > If you really are convinced that a new Sprintless Halo can bring back the HALO FPS glory days then there’s no amount of reasonable dialogue to end this discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > A lot of people like to say this, but what reasoning is there to believe this? Why would taking sprint out be disastrous? Would it be as disastrous that the changes Bungie and 343i have made? Why has every game that had sprint become less and less popular?
> > >
> > > Sprintless is the future. At this point, Halo has had Sprint for 3 main series games in a row. Keeping it is staying the same, not the other way around.
> > >
> > > The lowest sales in the series, and a game with a massive population drop off is what 343i has produced so far. Maybe it’s time to look at what made the original trilogy unique, and to stop copy and pasting mechanics from other games onto Halo because, “familiarity.” How can Doom, and Overwatch, and CS:GO all be extremely popular without Sprint? Why is there this idea that sprint is the only thing keeping people around? People don’t play a game for sprint. People play games for the gameplay. If the gameplay is hurt by sprint then it is the devs responsibility to remove it.
> >
> >
> > DOOM, Overwatch, and CS:GO oh my!
> > DOOM’s base movement speed is really faster than Halo’s sprint and it’s bad MP is full of lame shotgun chargers.
> > Overwatch is a new and stranglely popular class based shooter, but then again Blizzard knows how to make gamers into addicts (which has nothing to do with those CGI prons that most likely leaked from Blizzard’s own staff).
> > CS:GO the ageless tactical PC shooter won’t die like a million year old vampire (it’s not the gambling that’s helping to keep it popular it’s microtransactions and new content updates that keep it going).
> > Face it guys Halo is in the backseat thanks to easy to play overhyped CoD and there’s no way to fix it.
> > Personally I’ve had enough sprintless Halo for a lifetime and I’d know it’s return would ensure Halo’s ultimate death.
>
>
> All three though show that a game can not have sprint and still be popular in 2016. That was my point. This idea that FPS games in 2016 need sprint is nonsense. The only way that it is going to succeed again is to make it it’s own thing. Halo used to be a unique game. It played unlike anything else. Go back to those roots. Going back to DOOM, look at how successful it was for going back to its roots. The devs even talked about how their original idea for the next DOOM game was too similar to other games on the market, and that they needed to go back to the series roots to stand out. 343i have done the exact opposite. At every opportunity they make their game more like others, to make it stand out less instead of more. “Sprint is required because people expect it.” This is the wrong way to look at this IMO. CoD people are always going to prefer CoD. By making Halo more like other games, they are only alienating their core fanbase. This is why Halo 5 has the lowest sales in the series.

DOOM 3 was, good (despite having to choose between a weapon and a flashlight), but it wasn’t nearly as fun as DOOM.

The Halo community sure ain’t what it used to be.

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> > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > >
> > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> >
> >
> > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
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> > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > >
> > >
> > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> >
> >
> > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
>
>
> I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
>
> As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
>
> Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
>
> See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.

Gameplay made Halo as popular as it was. Story was a close second at best.

Fallout 4 is not a shooter, it’s a role playing game. You can argue it, like I know you will, but you’ll still be wrong. Your Borderlands example is the result of player expectations of what they got from the series previously. It’s different from Halo 5 because Halo 5’s gameplay is still criticised in additions to its lack of content and poor story. And Reach and H4 had the content and story, but the gameplay gives them a bad reputation and resulted in a large population drop.

Gameplay is more important in FPS than story or content. You can keep being wrong if you’d like, but it won’t change anything.

I bet a mods gunna get annoyed at me for some random reason, but I think this vid pretty much just sums this all up: - YouTube

I’m very sorry if this is bad mods but I didn’t feel the need to say everything that the vid said, so I just linked it. This is relevant and will be my last comment.

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> > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > >
> > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> >
> >
> > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > >
> > >
> > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> >
> >
> > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
>
>
> I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
>
> As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
>
> Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
>
> See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.

The next Fallout could build on the solid gameplay that 4 has. Fallout 3 was completely different from its predecessors.

Borderlands the Presequel, oh man, don’t even go there. There was A LOT more wrong than the limited content. The gameplay had been completely changed, you had to replay the entire story to farm for specific weapons. There were a handful of one-time only drops in Borderlands 2, and they were nothing special. There were also weapon nerfs, and–just don’t go there. They made the only reasonably farmable boss stop dropping Legendaries, which people were using in order to moongrind in an attempt to get the weapons that you had to replay the story to get… STAHP!

I, for one, enjoyed learning about Jack.

I feel like sprint finally made Halo ranked above COD. Before Halo 5 they were about the same with each having pros and cons(i always favored Halo though). The unlimited Spartan abilities added a whole new level of skill to the game. Now you can use sprint and Spartan charge to close the gap between enemies in seconds instead of casually jumping and jogging towards them. I do not think that sprint should be removed from Halo 6, Halo 6 should be just like Halo 5 with only a few changes.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve seen footage, but never an official source for “pacing issues”. I’m curious what bungie was trying, because there are definitey parts of h2 campaign that would be great with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That’s because Bungie never came out and said that sprint ruins the pacing because if that was the case then why would they include it in Reach? The “claim” comes from a youtuber that claims to have spoken to a developer. Speaking of developers, who wants a new Halo dev?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It wouldn’t be hard to confirm whether or not he’s telling the truth. He told us the name of the employee who told him that. Had he simply said, “an ex-Bungie employee told me this” without mentioning a name, then there would be reason not to believe. Plus, there’s this, where one of the animators confirms it and provides closest thing to proof as one could. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy theory, it’s just about whether or not a mechanic was cut from a game from 12 years ago, there’s nothing to hide. Skeptical? Then go ask the employee yourself. Otherwise, it’s just denial.
> > > > > > > > > > BTW, Bungie was already mentally checked out by Reach. They used Reach as a testing ground for Destiny. Can’t say I’m surprised you hadn’t noticed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Denial? No one is denying that the animation exists or that it was created by Bungie. But the lack of source for why it was cut is the issue. Even if it was cut due to “pacing issue” what does that mean? Campaign pacing? Development Pacing? PvP pacing?
> > > > > > > > > Then to say that Reach doesn’t count is just as much of a denial. It seems to me, given the quote you link to about bungie being slammed with Halo 3, they solved their “pacing issues” satisfactorily with reach. You could then contend that Halo 2 and possibly 3 would have had sprint had the solution been available earlier.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like I said, go ask the employee.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ll just call him right up… oh yeah. He said it was nonsense. Sprint was scrapped because Microsoft wanted halo to remain unique from other shooters. It had nothing to do with pacing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From what I can gather, there was no reason given by the developers to why it was cut in Halo 2. It is more logical that it was cut was because of pacing and how it could influence gameplay. It being scrapped because of Microsoft is more logical today with how 343 and Microsoft work than Bungie and Microsoft back in the early 2000s. Unless either side calls up a developer, then both sides don’t have a complete argument, but logically the anti-sprint camp has more logical arguments to remove sprint, than anyone wanting sprint to stay. Not to mention there is a large group of people against sprint, and many of the polls even show there is more of a stance against sprint than for it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was being facetious when I invoked Microsoft. I don’t doubt that pacing is the reason, but we have no idea what pacing means in this context. It could have been the pacing of development, or triggered events in the levels, or the times it took to travel on certain levels and how that interacted with the music… etc etc etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > To argue that pacing must mean the flow of PvP is unfounded.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You could avoid having to explain yourself by stating that you’re playing Devil’s Advocate.
> > > >
> > > > To argue that pacing must refer to campaign design is equally unfounded.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sure. Which is why I never suggested that it MUST refer to anything. A more careful reading would make my position clearer I believe. I thought it was fairly obvious that I was playing the Devil’s Advocate with the way I phrase things.
> >
> >
> > I didn’t realize that you were playing Devil’s Advocate when we first spoke. It was only after you revealed that I didn’t know what your actual position was that I realized what you were doing. If I hadn’t had that experience, then I wouldn’t have recognized it here. What is clear to you is not always apparent to others, especially when all they have to go on is text from someone who is a stranger to them. You do a disservice to your efforts by not demonstrating transparency. There are all kinds of people out there, including those who fail to think for themselves. Don’t act surprised when you are mistaken for one such person because of how you come across.
> >
> > Actually, your series of arguments indirectly supports the notion that pacing must mean campaign design. Why not simply state what you think it might be, and why you think it might be that? Anything outside of that simply clutters up the dialogue.
>
>
> quoth myself, “It could have been the pacing of development…”
>
> Could have been. Not must have been. You might be a stranger to me, but the text is there. And, for the most part, the meaning of the words I use is clear and unambiguous. The issue is not my choice of words, but rather the reading of them. I am never surprised when someone fails to read properly… but always saddened.
>
> As for the indirect support of campaign design… I suppose that makes more sense to me after putting thought into it. It was not an opinion I had formed when I first queried what Bungie was doing during development. I might argue it now, but aside from a sense given by how early the animations for sprint were created as well as their mode of initiation (they turn on after a few moments of moving forward was what I think the video said was the original design- that sounds like a campaign thing more than PvP if we consider maps sizes) we don’t have much to go on. It could just as well been a campaign choice to include sprint that was later nixed when the multiplayer guys said, “Pacing issues campaign guys. You just made a bunch of pacing issues.”

Bringing up the point that the pacing could’ve been entirely related to the campaign’s design, and not providing the support for the opposing side, would be arguing for the former. Defining terms is important in a debate, yes, but the way that you are going about it muddles those definitions. Could the pacing problems have been related to the campaign? Yes. Could they have been related to PvP? Yes. Do we know one way or another? No. So how can we use that information constructively? I would argue that the best approach would be openly discussing the potential implications of sprint in classic Halo gameplay, on classic Halo maps/levels. I can’t imagine sprint on Lockout, I would’ve never used it. My point is that Devil’s Advocate has its place, when it’s done well.

I think that you would be wise to acknowledge that your word choice could affect how the rest of your words are read. Poor communication arises from two possible things: the speaker failing to be clear, and the listener failing to understand. I understood what you were trying to do, because of our previous interaction. Others, obviously didn’t.

Why would it be a campaign-only thing? Who’s to say that Bungie wouldn’t have designed multiplayer maps that meshed with such a game mechanic? Why did they wait until Reach to introduce it? Finally, can’t Campaign, Arena, and Warzone all have different game mechanics, and still work? Why, or why not?

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> > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve seen footage, but never an official source for “pacing issues”. I’m curious what bungie was trying, because there are definitey parts of h2 campaign that would be great with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That’s because Bungie never came out and said that sprint ruins the pacing because if that was the case then why would they include it in Reach? The “claim” comes from a youtuber that claims to have spoken to a developer. Speaking of developers, who wants a new Halo dev?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It wouldn’t be hard to confirm whether or not he’s telling the truth. He told us the name of the employee who told him that. Had he simply said, “an ex-Bungie employee told me this” without mentioning a name, then there would be reason not to believe. Plus, there’s this, where one of the animators confirms it and provides closest thing to proof as one could. This isn’t some sort of conspiracy theory, it’s just about whether or not a mechanic was cut from a game from 12 years ago, there’s nothing to hide. Skeptical? Then go ask the employee yourself. Otherwise, it’s just denial.
> > > > > > > > > > BTW, Bungie was already mentally checked out by Reach. They used Reach as a testing ground for Destiny. Can’t say I’m surprised you hadn’t noticed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Denial? No one is denying that the animation exists or that it was created by Bungie. But the lack of source for why it was cut is the issue. Even if it was cut due to “pacing issue” what does that mean? Campaign pacing? Development Pacing? PvP pacing?
> > > > > > > > > Then to say that Reach doesn’t count is just as much of a denial. It seems to me, given the quote you link to about bungie being slammed with Halo 3, they solved their “pacing issues” satisfactorily with reach. You could then contend that Halo 2 and possibly 3 would have had sprint had the solution been available earlier.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like I said, go ask the employee.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ll just call him right up… oh yeah. He said it was nonsense. Sprint was scrapped because Microsoft wanted halo to remain unique from other shooters. It had nothing to do with pacing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He has a twitter. Not hard to figure out. If you made the effort to even google his name, you’d know this.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Why tweet him when I can call him. Thats like facebook messaging someone in the same room. So lame.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I’d know a lot of things if I googled stufff. Duh. Thats, like, so obvious.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then do whatever. You’re the one that needs convincing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Its not really about convincing me. “Pacing Issues” is too vague to mean any one thing. And asking an art guy 10 years after the fact isn’t going to be terribly illuminating unless the pacing was directly related to getting the art assets done. Taking about pacing at the early stages of development doesn’t mean much. It might have had nothing to do with PvP but rather the timing of triggered events campaign like the scarabs moving through the city. And given the relative crudeness of the animations I’m guessing it was too early in the process to be well documented in video or interviews from the time, which would be the best sources.
> >
> >
> > Sprint could’ve affected rendering and triggered events, definitely. Why wasn’t it put into multiplayer?
>
>
> I think bungie was trying to make sure that all modes played the same? I haven’t seen too many games where the multiplayer and campaign are different. I think it can work- splinter cell did an ok job with separate campaigns and PvP… I honestly wish halo would do that. Develop a deep campaign with crazy abilities and roleplaying levels and loot and… just ALL the stuff.
>
> and let multiplayer be halo.
>
> Except for warzone. Let warzone be warzone with all the crazy stuff like in reach, with some ODST thrown in.

Maybe. That seems fairly plausible.

> 2535464819386156;8356:
> I feel like sprint finally made Halo ranked above COD. Before Halo 5 they were about the same with each having pros and cons(i always favored Halo though). The unlimited Spartan abilities added a whole new level of skill to the game. Now you can use sprint and Spartan charge to close the gap between enemies in seconds instead of casually jumping and jogging towards them. I do not think that sprint should be removed from Halo 6, Halo 6 should be just like Halo 5 with only a few changes.

You crossed those distances faster in classic Halo. Speed is an illusion. Halo 5 reduced the skill gap of Halo. etc.

If Sprint goes, Spartan Charge goes.

I see no downsides.

> 2727626560040591;8351:
> How is a map being stretched to accommodate sprint an opinion?

I’ts not.
However, it’s your opinion if you think stretched out maps are good/bad.

Anyone can load up truth on Halo 5, and midship from Halo 2 and see truth is stretched out from its original design.

But some people may like the way truth plays bc it’s stretched out, and not like the way midship plays bc it feels too cramped.