The sprint discussion thread

[Celestis]

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> I think sprinting started because bungie wanted to make something huge like it was Invasion, massive maps and experienced never before.
>
> for something like this sprinting was necessary. I remember using sprinting or jet pack cuz I got the feeling of being back in the fight and I wanted to be there in no time.

That’s funny, bacause most loadouts in Invasion don’t have sprint. They have evade, armor lock, camo, etc. So if these classes managed to traverse the maps in a timely manner, then no, sprint wasn’t needed.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > Huge change?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not so much about the large maps as large maps are already inherently large and stretched. Usually because designing a map for vehicles and for sprint call for the same types of things.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem lies in the small maps. Look at midship/heretic and then look at truth. It’s huge and stretched. Every area of the map is significantly larger and stretched out than it’s midship/heretic counterpart. Where are the small, tight maps? Where are the maps like wizard, chillout, lockout, guardian? Nowhere. You can’t make maps that are small and tight in a game with sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is where I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t think sprint is the cause… but it certainly doesn’t help.
> > > >
> > > > Small maps are just gone. you don’t see them anymore. Or if they’re around they feel very different.
> > > > Beaver Creek? Never again. Lockout? Nah, bigger is better. Turf? They must have cleared out the scarab and moved people back in, cuz I’m not seeing it.
> > > >
> > > > Part of the problem is online play- you don’t need small maps for the local 2v2 anymore. As well, better connections and hardware mean we can have larger games (which are awesome yeah), but without small maps its all starts to feel like a 4v4 big team battle.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint doesn’t help this. As designed, sprint would make a simple small map like Wizard or Warlock feel very cramped. You would need to redesign how sprint works (and then it wouldn’t be the familiar sprint we see across the genre) or have maps more complicated- sorta the way Ivory tower stacks a lot of space in its verticality Sprint isn’t a big deal there compared to something else where paths are straighter. Complicated isn’t bad… but I say not being able to do simple is a detriment.
> > > >
> > > > With something like truth… I don’t think this was stretched for sprint. Rather I think they reimagined it as a larger map. I bet they could have taken midship and worked it into something smaller. But then it would have likely been very different and less recognizable as related to midship.
> > >
> > >
> > > Somebody tested this, Truth is scaled to sprint. It takes just as long to cross with sprint as it did to run across Midship.
> >
> >
> > i know. I’ve tested it. Its pretty close, but not in every direction, which is why its more a reimagining than a scaled remake.
>
>
> Well, either way, the only gamemode that feels somewhat similar to classic Halo is CTF, and that’s only because you can juggle the flag and use your thrusters. It definitely doesn’t have as many tactics as Midship did.

I don’t disagree, but at the same time an old map should be expected to play differently in a new game. the h3 version played differently than h2 with the changes to architecture and weapons. The question is if its still fun.

The real reason why people are upset with Sprint is that the game just isn’t as fun for them as before. Map design, changes to gameplay, etc. being what they are.

For me the loss of split screen was huge, more so than anything else. Halo 6 is not going to happen without it. Halo 5 almost didn’t happen, but my son decided to spend his birthday money to buy a used copy.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thats what you call opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
> > > >
> > > > I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> > >
> > >
> > > But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
> >
> >
> > I don’t know if I like 120… I actually like the slower pace. What I want is frenetic action- and that is well accomplished by responsive movement. I thought reach was great… except your spartan took forever to get moving.
> >
> > The time from stop to full speed needs to be negligible.
>
>
> Then why not just have an acceleration mechanic without a button press that adds up to sprint speed but has no animation that stops you from shooting.

That would work too. I recall playing a game on the 360 a while back where your character would automatically start sprinting after you ran at full normal speed without turning for a few seconds. it worked great. You didn’t have to worry about sprinting over short distances. No one was going to run away from a fight. etc.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > I never said none of that was sprint- i don’t know if you’re strawman’ing me, stating the obvious, or simply misreading. Now, I have no doubts that there were people who disliked sprint. But to laud the 10x increase in a Sprint debate is disingenuous at best. My suspicion was that bloom played the biggest part of it, followed by the AA’s and then map selection. Reach played really well without bloom, as it turns out, more so with the right settings.
> > > > > > I’ll have to look up viking. the recent halo games have been so bland that I really couldn’t name a single map… (y’know its that one map with the stuff and the thing…). The thing about it now isn’t that sprint is causing these dead zones, but that 343 can’t manage to design a map that plays exceptionally. My guess is that they intended some of these areas to be more empty and only act as a path or region in-between other zones. That isn’t sprint, thats 343 making maps larger simply by making empty space. There is nothing about sprint that necessitates large empty space.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know how I know im right? In h4 343 added Legendary slayer. It had no AAs, it had no bloom and it used some more classic style maps. Guess what? It didn’t budge the population needle one bit. Why? It still had sprint. You can remove all those other issues and keep sprint and the population won’t change. Remove sprint? 10x jump in population. This isn’t a theory or an assumption. This is history. These are facts.
> > > > >
> > > > > 343 didn’t make viking. It’s a community forge map. Sprint 100% necessitates empty space.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > viking is community? crud. I havent kept up on it since other games have come out.
> > > >
> > > > Still, h4 legendary isnt proof of anything. I’m fairly certain Reach was more popular that 4 population wise. Halo 4 had a number of other systems at work as well that might have kept people away. Those alone mean you cannot say for certain that sprint was the cause. Again, did it matter? Yes, for some. Is it the biggest factor? You cannot say… but given you dont seem to know what “necessitates” means, I’ll let you slide.
> > >
> > >
> > > Truth has a lot of empty space compared to Midship because it’s scaled to sprint, and nobody sprints the entire time. It doesn’t flow well.
> > >
> > > As for other games, Halo 2, 3, and ODST interested me so much that I’ve never played Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories, and Vice City was my second favorite GTA. Halo 4 was so off-putting that I still haven’t completed my first specialization. In Halo 5, the most glaring issue is maps that are designed around sprint.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I’m not sure that Moltened’s claim can be inferred because of how different H4 was. I know that I stopped playing because GTA V was a much, much better game.
> >
> >
> > yeah… H5 came out and I was thrilled that the action felt tight and intense… and then I went back to what I was doing. I think it took me… about 2 hours to figure the game out. Played for a few more days, linked up with a friend (which makes just about any game a blast)… And now I’m done. Ther
> > e’s something about h4 and 5 that just aren’t fun. I played reach a ton despite the issues with bloom and jetpack… but not 4 and 5.
> >
> > overwatch though… If it werent for work and my kids I would be playing that a lot more.
>
>
> Jetpacks, the best, worst idea. Halo 4 and Halo 5 aren’t as fun because their gameplay and map design don’t mesh together in a very cohesive way. Reach had a few maps that were somewhat decent (mostly remakes), and Firefight Arcade was absolutely brilliant (and actually made armor abilities make sense). With the addition of Action Sack, Riftball manages to make sense of H5’s movement system. I honestly believe that the gameplay could be done very well, and be very appealing–in a separate title.
>
> I haven’t played Overwatch, but its gameplay does look interesting.

play it.

Its the most fun I’ve had in a shooter in a long time. EVERY ability feels very intentional. EVERY character feels useful in the right hands. I’m usually a one-character kind of guy… but I’ve liked playing as just about every character so far.

[Moltened]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thats what you call opinion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t know if I like 120… I actually like the slower pace. What I want is frenetic action- and that is well accomplished by responsive movement. I thought reach was great… except your spartan took forever to get moving.
> > >
> > > The time from stop to full speed needs to be negligible.
> >
> >
> > Then why not just have an acceleration mechanic without a button press that adds up to sprint speed but has no animation that stops you from shooting.
>
>
> That would work too. I recall playing a game on the 360 a while back where your character would automatically start sprinting after you ran at full normal speed without turning for a few seconds. it worked great. You didn’t have to worry about sprinting over short distances. No one was going to run away from a fight. etc.

I remember perfect dark used it too. Maybe goldeneye as well. It made traversing large Mps more tolerable but never really came in to play on small maps.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thats what you call opinion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t know if I like 120… I actually like the slower pace. What I want is frenetic action- and that is well accomplished by responsive movement. I thought reach was great… except your spartan took forever to get moving.
> > > >
> > > > The time from stop to full speed needs to be negligible.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then why not just have an acceleration mechanic without a button press that adds up to sprint speed but has no animation that stops you from shooting.
> >
> >
> > That would work too. I recall playing a game on the 360 a while back where your character would automatically start sprinting after you ran at full normal speed without turning for a few seconds. it worked great. You didn’t have to worry about sprinting over short distances. No one was going to run away from a fight. etc.
>
>
> I remember perfect dark used it too. Maybe goldeneye as well. It made traversing large Mps more tolerable but never really came in to play on small maps.

not goldeneye… I dont recall if PD did. Which is strange, I played the hell out of that game.

[RubenCooPMj09]

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> > I think sprinting started because bungie wanted to make something huge like it was Invasion, massive maps and experienced never before.
> >
> > for something like this sprinting was necessary. I remember using sprinting or jet pack cuz I got the feeling of being back in the fight and I wanted to be there in no time.
>
>
> That’s funny, bacause most loadouts in Invasion don’t have sprint. They have evade, armor lock, camo, etc. So if these classes managed to traverse the maps in a timely manner, then no, sprint wasn’t needed.

But was the begging. Now how many abilities do we have ?

[Jdavila53]

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> > > > It’s just how you percieve the sprint ability, sure it changed halo, it might’ve given people a disadvantage who were not used to sprint, or it made fans feel like it’s not halo anymore idk but if you use the ability to your advantage there really is nothing to hate about it am I right? I like sprint just fine, I’d think if they took it away many people would complain, and I’ve been playing halo since early 2000s
> > >
> > >
> > > So, how I perceive the sprint ability, affects Halo’s map design? Huh?
> >
> >
> > No I wasn’t referring to the maps, I was talking about the sprint ability in general
>
>
> Sprint has affected Halo’s map design, and core gameplay. That’s what this thread is about.

Actually isn’t this thread about the removal of sprint

[Jdavila53]

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> > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > >
> > >
> > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> >
> >
> > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
>
>
> So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.

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> > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > >
> > >
> > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> >
> >
> > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
>
>
> So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.

why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible

[Fairhades35]

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> > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> >
> >
> > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
>
>
>
>
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> > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> >
> >
> > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
>
>
> why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible

If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter

[Moltened]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thats what you call opinion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t know if I like 120… I actually like the slower pace. What I want is frenetic action- and that is well accomplished by responsive movement. I thought reach was great… except your spartan took forever to get moving.
> > > > >
> > > > > The time from stop to full speed needs to be negligible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then why not just have an acceleration mechanic without a button press that adds up to sprint speed but has no animation that stops you from shooting.
> > >
> > >
> > > That would work too. I recall playing a game on the 360 a while back where your character would automatically start sprinting after you ran at full normal speed without turning for a few seconds. it worked great. You didn’t have to worry about sprinting over short distances. No one was going to run away from a fight. etc.
> >
> >
> > I remember perfect dark used it too. Maybe goldeneye as well. It made traversing large Mps more tolerable but never really came in to play on small maps.
>
>
> not goldeneye… I dont recall if PD did. Which is strange, I played the hell out of that game.

It definitely did. I played the -Yoink- out of it when it was re released on 360 as an arcade game.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > >
> > >
> > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274816931642;8167:
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> > > > > > 2533274921667958;8085:
> > > > > > > 2533274816299345;2:
> > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > >
> > >
> > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> >
> >
> > why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible
>
>
> If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter

certain levels of realism matter. If gravity is wrong, or lip syncing we can have issues… But when bullets dont have travel time its far less jarring.

I think the right word is consistent. People cant fly… but a game where superman cant would feel wrong. So for many, a spartan who cant sprint would feel just as wrong. Adding it in made the game feel better.

[Moltened]

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> > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274816931642;8167:
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> > > > > > > 2533274921667958;8085:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816299345;2:
> > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > >
> > >
> > > why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible
> >
> >
> > If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter
>
>
> certain levels of realism matter. If gravity is wrong, or lip syncing we can have issues… But when bullets dont have travel time its far less jarring.
>
> I think the right word is consistent. People cant fly… but a game where superman cant would feel wrong. So for many, a spartan who cant sprint would feel just as wrong. Adding it in made the game feel better.

That is your subjective opinion. I disagree. H5 feels very wrong to me in comparison to doom. A game which nails high BMS movement and the feeling of being a bad -Yoink- super soldier.

Having to slow down to a crawl in order to shoot feels terrible and clunky -Yoink- hell. Halo is not a stop and pop shooter with instant kill times. A lot of the game is spent out of sprint and any game that has sprint must have slow BMS.

[Nooga]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thats what you call opinion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t know if I like 120… I actually like the slower pace. What I want is frenetic action- and that is well accomplished by responsive movement. I thought reach was great… except your spartan took forever to get moving.
> > > > >
> > > > > The time from stop to full speed needs to be negligible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then why not just have an acceleration mechanic without a button press that adds up to sprint speed but has no animation that stops you from shooting.
> > >
> > >
> > > That would work too. I recall playing a game on the 360 a while back where your character would automatically start sprinting after you ran at full normal speed without turning for a few seconds. it worked great. You didn’t have to worry about sprinting over short distances. No one was going to run away from a fight. etc.
> >
> >
> > I remember perfect dark used it too. Maybe goldeneye as well. It made traversing large Mps more tolerable but never really came in to play on small maps.
>
>
> not goldeneye… I dont recall if PD did. Which is strange, I played the hell out of that game.

Its also an option on a couple of the Battlefield games

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible
> > >
> > >
> > > If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter
> >
> >
> > certain levels of realism matter. If gravity is wrong, or lip syncing we can have issues… But when bullets dont have travel time its far less jarring.
> >
> > I think the right word is consistent. People cant fly… but a game where superman cant would feel wrong. So for many, a spartan who cant sprint would feel just as wrong. Adding it in made the game feel better.
>
>
> That is your subjective opinion. I disagree. H5 feels very wrong to me in comparison to doom. A game which nails high BMS movement and the feeling being a bad add super soldier.

it is subjective, but so many treat it like fact. Thats why this conversation keeps going.

[Moltened]

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> > > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2533274816931642;8167:
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> > > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter
> > >
> > >
> > > certain levels of realism matter. If gravity is wrong, or lip syncing we can have issues… But when bullets dont have travel time its far less jarring.
> > >
> > > I think the right word is consistent. People cant fly… but a game where superman cant would feel wrong. So for many, a spartan who cant sprint would feel just as wrong. Adding it in made the game feel better.
> >
> >
> > That is your subjective opinion. I disagree. H5 feels very wrong to me in comparison to doom. A game which nails high BMS movement and the feeling being a bad add super soldier.
>
>
> it is subjective, but so many treat it like fact. Thats why this conversation keeps going.

It is a fact that sprint seperates movement from combat and holds the speed of the game down.

If you like a slow game with movement and combat seperate, that’s cool. The problem with pro sprint players is that they completely fail to even a knowledge the facts.

Sprint forces a slow BMS. Sprint needs to be faster than BMS which in essence creates a cap on how fast BMS can be. In Halo, due to long kill times you spend a lot of time using BMS. Which is slow because of sprint. The issue is even further amplified by the fact that maps are scaled for sprint. Making BMS even slower feeling.

With sprint gone BMS can be upped. That’s the evolution halo should have taken. I understand why bungie kept BMS low in the original trilogy. Dual stick controllers were still a relatively new. The user base wasn’t ready for quake like speed. Now they are. People crave speed and have the aquired skillsets to handle it. So give it to them. Drop sprint. Up BMS. Evolve halo properly.

The funny thing is teambeyond.net already did this with thier oh so perfectly named “evolved settings”. -Yoink!- it’s fast and amazing.

[Grim_Ice_IX]

Sprint in Halo has had a lot of controversy in the past couple games starting with Reach. Theres the people who hate it altogether. The people who tolerate it. And the people who think its a good idea for the game. In my opinion, Halo: Reaches sprint was fine. And the reason I say that is because it was an extra ability that the game was not built around. the game still played like classic Halo if you took it out. However people who disliked it had plenty of reason to. Because they were afraid it would turn into what it is now. In Halo 5 however, It is not fine. The game is built around this ability and not longer plays the same if you don’t use it. It’s like every other shooter. Now I agree 100% that Halo needs to evlove. But it needs to make changes that mean something and not just changes for the sake of change.
Im going to use thrusters as an example here. They are they only ability that I can tolerate. The game is not built around them like sprint and spartan charge and ground pound.
They are simply an ability that give you a little bit of an advantage and also has a small cool down. So where am I going here?
In Halo 6 I think they should redesign sprint to be more like the thrusters. It would be an ability like Reach where you could only sprint for so long, then it would have a cool down. But it would also be permanent ability that everyone has. The same way they took the thruster pack from Halo 4 and made it a permanent ability in Halo 5. It would also not change the way the game is played. The game should still feel like classic Halo without it.
I think this is the best way to incorporate sprint into the game while still appealing the Halo vets. There has to be compromise. This game has to evolve. But lets help it evolve in the right direction.
Could this possibly fix sprint?

[omarlotrc]

Please don’t say “everyone”; you don’t speak for me.

[FRQB]

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> > > > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2533274816931642;8167:
> > > > > > > > 2533274921667958;8165:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274816931642;8116:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274921667958;8085:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274816299345;2:
> > > > > > > > > > > Id rather keep sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey a spartan can do a backflip, they should be able to sprint while holding a weapon right? It feels less realistic without sprint in my opinion, if they’re aiming and running that’s a different story of course they wouldn’t sprint because they’re trying to be precise
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, firing accurately while running and jumping around, with recharging shields, single-handedly fighting through hordes of aliens, on an ancient giant super weapon in space, is realistic? Infinite sprint, over various types of terrain, isn’t any more realistic than not having sprint at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why do you keep twisting my words, I said sprinting made it feel realistic, I obviously know the game isn’t realistic, and putting this to rest, 343 should disable sprint in certain arena maps and game modes, also have the sprint disabled for warzone in a separate playlist, and a smaller map for that warzone variant, so that people can play with or without sprint but I don’t know if this is possible
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If the game isn’t realistic then why does sprint being realistic matter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > certain levels of realism matter. If gravity is wrong, or lip syncing we can have issues… But when bullets dont have travel time its far less jarring.
> > > >
> > > > I think the right word is consistent. People cant fly… but a game where superman cant would feel wrong. So for many, a spartan who cant sprint would feel just as wrong. Adding it in made the game feel better.
> > >
> > >
> > > That is your subjective opinion. I disagree. H5 feels very wrong to me in comparison to doom. A game which nails high BMS movement and the feeling being a bad add super soldier.
> >
> >
> > it is subjective, but so many treat it like fact. Thats why this conversation keeps going.
>
>
> It is a fact that sprint seperates movement from combat and holds the speed of the game down.
>
> If you like a slow game with movement and combat seperate, that’s cool. The problem with pro sprint players is that they completely fail to even a knowledge the facts.
>
> Sprint forces a slow BMS. Sprint needs to be faster than BMS which in essence creates a cap on how fast BMS can be. In Halo, due to long kill times you spend a lot of time using BMS. Which is slow because of sprint. The issue is even further amplified by the fact that maps are scaled for sprint. Making BMS even slower feeling.
>
> With sprint gone BMS can be upped. That’s the evolution halo should have taken. I understand why bungie kept BMS low in the original trilogy. Dual stick controllers were still a relatively new. The user base wasn’t ready for quake like speed. Now they are. People crave speed and have the aquired skillsets to handle it. So give it to them. Drop sprint. Up BMS. Evolve halo properly.
>
> The funny thing is teambeyond.net already did this with thier oh so perfectly named “evolved settings”. -Yoink!- it’s fast and amazing.

I feel as though most pri sprint players don’t understand this point. If you’re in favour of sprint, you are in essence in favour of the game being slow.

[MR_MELLON_POP]

People still arguing over sprint lol