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> > > I like OP’s suggestion of removing sprint from certain game modes(Arena, Arena-customs, etc.) and leaving it for others (Warzone).
> > >
> > > However, as much as I would like for sprint to be removed and to have a base movement feel more similar to the old Halos and new DOOM, I don’t think that will make a big difference in regards to player retention as others have mentioned.
> >
> >
> > halo 3 with faster movement speed and hitscan or faster projectiles…i think people would like that more than they think
>
>
> Oh ya, that sounds awesome. Also, I vote for hitscan.
same…ive been branching out with shooters and ive come to the conclusion halo 5 is better then i thought…but the thing i said would be…godly
Gameplay wise, Halo 6 should stay like Halo 5. Sprinting, guns all zoom in, Spartan charge, ground pound. All of those should stay. I feel like Halo 5, gameplay wise, is the direction a first-person super solider shooter game should take.
Story wise is completely different, but that’s neither here nor there.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please kindly guide me to one then, saying their out there isn’t a very good argument.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Huge change?
> > >
> > >
> > > Small maps are just gone. you don’t see them anymore. Or if they’re around they feel very different.
> > > Beaver Creek? Never again. Lockout? Nah, bigger is better. Turf? They must have cleared out the scarab and moved people back in, cuz I’m not seeing it.
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is online play- you don’t need small maps for the local 2v2 anymore. As well, better connections and hardware mean we can have larger games (which are awesome yeah), but without small maps its all starts to feel like a 4v4 big team battle.
> > >
> > > Sprint doesn’t help this. As designed, sprint would make a simple small map like Wizard or Warlock feel very cramped. You would need to redesign how sprint works (and then it wouldn’t be the familiar sprint we see across the genre) or have maps more complicated- sorta the way Ivory tower stacks a lot of space in its verticality Sprint isn’t a big deal there compared to something else where paths are straighter. Complicated isn’t bad… but I say not being able to do simple is a detriment.
> > >
> > > With something like truth… I don’t think this was stretched for sprint. Rather I think they reimagined it as a larger map. I bet they could have taken midship and worked it into something smaller. But then it would have likely been very different and less recognizable as related to midship.
> >
> >
> > Holy excuses lol.
> >
> > 343 have flat out stated (article on gamasutra) that they have to make larger, more stretched out maps because of sprint. Sprint alone.
>
>
> I’ve seen it. They say a lot, doesnt mean its absolute fact or the only thing involved in the design choices- choices that started with Reach (and a bit in halo 3). Chicken vs egg and all. Its highly likely they would have ended up with larger maps because that is the direction things are going. Larger maps need sprint, as goes one line of reasoning, so sprint is in. Now maps need to work with sprint, that easily done by increased size, so big maps remain.
The direction what is going? The industry? Because that’s not true. Have you played a recent COD game?
> 2533274873886373;8143:
> Gameplay wise, Halo 6 should stay like Halo 5. Sprinting, guns all zoom in, Spartan charge, ground pound. All of those should stay. I feel like Halo 5, gameplay wise, is the direction a first-person super solider shooter game should take.
>
> Story wise is completely different, but that’s neither here nor there.
Someone hasn’t played the new doom. Or overwatch. The new doom, now THAT is how you make a player feel like a super soldier. I don’t think I could play that game’s campaign for 15 mins without having to save a clip. It’s empowering and immersive in a way h5 could only dream of being.
H5 feels dated and archaic. Held back in time to the days where COD reigned over the genre. Those days are ending and H5 is behind the curve. If h6 stays the same the game will be irrelevant
> 2535420374627419;8144:
> Sprint is nice and will help you so you are not stuck just walking normally, and if you want to not have sprint, just dont sprint!
What is life.
> 2659268351413658;8146:
> please…please… I beg you - let this thread die. Its time, Halo has evolved…just let this thread die…like it was suppose to XX months ago. That is all
“Evolved” into what? A bland clone of every other shooter? Don’t you mean de-evolved?
> 2533274839169051;8127:
> we are living in a pokemon go world now where game fads only last weeks, new content has to come out near constantly to maintain interest and you all are looking to de-sprint HALO just to recapture something that’s simply lost to time, unless a bunch of young hipster thing it’s retro, lame, ironic enough to reclaimer that FPS game of thrones (sorry the dragons aren’t coming for Halo).
Correct. It’s now been 310 weeks since sprint has been introduced to Halo, and the fad has overstayed its welcome long enough…
> 2533274846700578;8148:
> > 2535420374627419;8144:
> > Sprint is nice and will help you so you are not stuck just walking normally, and if you want to not have sprint, just dont sprint!
>
>
> What is life.
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> > > 2535420374627419;8144:
> > > Sprint is nice and will help you so you are not stuck just walking normally, and if you want to not have sprint, just dont sprint!
> >
> >
> > What is life.
>
>
> Baby don’t hurt me…
> 2535428803018625;8152:
> i you remove sprint it would get kind of boring because you get so used to sprint it would annoy you
It takes me literally less than five minutes or so to get used to no-sprint when I pop in, for example, the MCC or Bioshock or the old TimeSplitters. In fact, I am less annoyed while playing those, because these games don’t constantly rob me of any means to defend myself…
> 2533274801176260;8153:
> > 2535428803018625;8152:
> > i you remove sprint it would get kind of boring because you get so used to sprint it would annoy you
>
>
> It takes me literally less than five minutes or so to get used to no-sprint when I pop in, for example, the MCC
Yeah, with MCC it only takes me a game or two to stop hitting the sprint or thrust buttons and then I’m ‘immersed’ in the game. It wouldn’t be any different with H6 if it didn’t have sprint since people would get used to it.
Is this what is has come to? Stating that Bungies Reach had a sprint mechanism and because of this it’s ok for every coming Halo title to have sprint? First, Reach was a spin-off title in which changes in game mechanics are usually more tolerated and sometimes even expected. Second, Reach’s Armor Abilities were wildly disliked, especially jet packs, sprint and armor lock. Jet packs and sprint destroyed map flow and armor lock messed up the close range combat into a waiting game.
We never got a true successor to Halo 3’s game style. Instead, 343i decided to continue in the legacy of spin-off title. smh…
Now I’m not going to lie, all Halos had their problems, but now where facing issues that completely tore the community up. The direction Halo is going is just too gimmicky and it feels like the game is trying too hard to be something it’s not. I just played a couple of games with a friend who has had a few years break from Halo, and his first reaction to Halo 5 was: “This doesn’t feel like Halo at all, people dashing everywhere, smgs killing me in a blink of an eye, shotgun range close to the assault rifle range on Halo 3. What on earth happened to Halo?” I answered him: “It de-evolved big time”
Is it only because of sprint that the fan base has dropped to an all time low? Absolutely not. It’s just one of the more fundamental problems that affects almost every aspect of the game from TTK to bullet magnetism and map design. Closer quarter combat, weapon range and team work to add a few. If you want an awesome Halo game that continued Halos legacy, it would have to include the following things:
pure movement system(nothing but running and vehicles) so that stafing would make sense and vehicles would serve a purpose
split screen!
offline play
forge on release
reqs only in warzone, fewer armours and unlocked by in game achievements
better maps, better aesthetics, why so much gray walls? Add some teleporters, mancannons, c’mon, make it fun for crying out loud
weapon TTK slightly increased to it wouldn’t be as much first see first kill
better ranking system
pre game lobby with team seperation, visible ranks and veto/vote system
post game lobby with mvp and top medals clearly shown
social game types with exp tied to game type and overall rank
more fun game types like multi team, swords, hammers and action sack
in game fileshare system and a search system for all game types and maps
better weapon balance (meaning a spray and pray weapon not having a 0,4s shorter TTK than a pistol 5-shot)
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> > > > > > > Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> > > > > > > On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
> > > > > > we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
> > > > > > It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Blaming sprint for Halo’s decline in popularity is as narrow sighted as blaming the KISS disco album for the death of disco music and I for one don’t want see classic disco Halo try at a comeback (unless it’s a prequel before REACH/HCE with some sort of ODST small side project vibe to it so everyone knows it’s just an off shoot one time thing).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wasn’t Reach supposed to be “an off-shoot one time thing”?
> > >
> > >
> > > Cameo of MC + campaign, mp, firefight & invasion is enough to put it at full fledged Halo.
> >
> >
> > ODST didn’t have a Chief Cameo, but it had a campaign and introduced Firefight. Would you call it a full-fledged Halo? Why or why not?
> >
> > Why wasn’t Reach simply called Halo 4?
>
>
> Halo 3 ODST was really an expansion to Halo 3, hence why there’s a 3 in the name. Halo Reach is a prequel to the main series Halo 1-3. It was indeed a full-fledged Halo with all the features included. Campaign, multiplayer, firefight, and the revamped forge mode with the achievement of forge world. It has everything all the past main line Halo games had plus more. It was jam packed with content. An aspect that 343i can’t deliver on from the beginning. It was also the first Halo to have sprint in it.
Shh. =)
Reach happened before CE, and ODST happened during Halo 2. You could play multiplayer on ODST.
What about Halo CE: Anniversary? It’s multiplayer and Firefight were tied to Reach. Does a spin-off necessarily have to offer less content?
> 2533274855279867;8138:
> > 2535430546770643;8058:
> > > 2533274855279867;8055:
> > > Small maps are just gone. you don’t see them anymore. Or if they’re around they feel very different.
> > > Beaver Creek? Never again. Lockout? Nah, bigger is better. Turf? They must have cleared out the scarab and moved people back in, cuz I’m not seeing it.
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is online play- you don’t need small maps for the local 2v2 anymore. As well, better connections and hardware mean we can have larger games (which are awesome yeah), but without small maps its all starts to feel like a 4v4 big team battle.
> > >
> > > Sprint doesn’t help this. As designed, sprint would make a simple small map like Wizard or Warlock feel very cramped. You would need to redesign how sprint works (and then it wouldn’t be the familiar sprint we see across the genre) or have maps more complicated- sorta the way Ivory tower stacks a lot of space in its verticality Sprint isn’t a big deal there compared to something else where paths are straighter. Complicated isn’t bad… but I say not being able to do simple is a detriment.
> > >
> > > With something like truth… I don’t think this was stretched for sprint. Rather I think they reimagined it as a larger map. I bet they could have taken midship and worked it into something smaller. But then it would have likely been very different and less recognizable as related to midship.
> >
> >
> > Holy excuses lol.
> >
> > 343 have flat out stated (article on gamasutra) that they have to make larger, more stretched out maps because of sprint. Sprint alone.
>
>
> I’ve seen it. They say a lot, doesnt mean its absolute fact or the only thing involved in the design choices- choices that started with Reach (and a bit in halo 3). Chicken vs egg and all. Its highly likely they would have ended up with larger maps because that is the direction things are going. Larger maps need sprint, as goes one line of reasoning, so sprint is in. Now maps need to work with sprint, that easily done by increased size, so big maps remain.
I honestly wanted more BTB maps, but that was because I wanted more variety. There are some true classics, and I still love to play them to this day.
I miss the action of classic Arena maps. Ascension, Sanctuary, and Zanzibar were all reasonably sized maps. Plaza and Overgrowth have real potential, but are fundamentally flawed in one way or another. Anyway, I think that there are other ways for big maps to work, like through the use of vehicles. Does anyone else remember Containment? There were so many sniper nests (some of which were a little broken) and different tactics. It wasn’t the best BTB map that was ever made, but I remember a lot of really fun games that were played on that map, and it honestly felt like it was bordering on the edge of being too big for just 16 players–even with vehicles.
> 2533274818747103;8140:
> i’ve played all halo games but mainly started at halo 3. Sprint is a great thing especially in campaign!! because if my warthog blows up at least i’m not stuck walking the entire thing (this was a pet peeve)! Sprint is just how the game has evolved, it has now made it faster and in my experience with H5 better. not being able to regenerate your health when sprinting was the perfect fix because it is no longer ‘running away from a fight’ and changed it is ‘running into a fight’.
>
> a possible solution that i see is there should be a game type (just like BRs or MLG) that says ‘classic halo’ with no sprint, no clammer, no boost etc. This would allow those people who are affraid of change to still be able to play halo ‘the way it’s supposed to be played’ (not my point of view but wtv). Granted this will lead to problems with maps because maps are created with spring/boost/clammering in mind but it’s an idea.
>
> Thoughts?
Thoughts? Allow me to quote Zap: “you must have smoked some bad granola”.
Be mindful of your positioning and your vehicle will last longer. I remember getting a Banshee early on in Assault on The Control Room by shooting the bottom of a platform in just the right spot with a rocket. Other than that, I didn’t mind having to run a long way, as long as the environment was pretty and the music was good. Sprint still isn’t fixed, especially because Halo 5 was designed around it.
I don’t think that we’re afraid of change, and the fact that you are making such a claim makes me wonder whether or not you’re just trolling. Halo 5’s sandbox wasn’t developed to accommodate gameplay that completely lacked sprint, so there’s that, too. 343i would be wise to cater to both communities in the next Halo title.
> 2535430546770643;8147:
> > 2533274873886373;8143:
> > Gameplay wise, Halo 6 should stay like Halo 5. Sprinting, guns all zoom in, Spartan charge, ground pound. All of those should stay. I feel like Halo 5, gameplay wise, is the direction a first-person super solider shooter game should take.
> >
> > Story wise is completely different, but that’s neither here nor there.
>
>
> Someone hasn’t played the new doom. Or overwatch. The new doom, now THAT is how you make a player feel like a super soldier. I don’t think I could play that game’s campaign for 15 mins without having to save a clip. It’s empowering and immersive in a way h5 could only dream of being.
>
> H5 feels dated and archaic. Held back in time to the days where COD reigned over the genre. Those days are ending and H5 is behind the curve. If h6 stays the same the game will be irrelevant
Oh man, there have been so many times where I’ve felt like a total bad*** when playing Doom. It’s sooo good.
8 health, frantically jumping around, the music throbbing, and then pulling out the chainsaw and cutting off a Baron of H pell’s legs. Simply awesome.
> 2535428803018625;8152:
> i you remove sprint it would get kind of boring because you get so used to sprint it would annoy you
Halo 5’s multiplayer enrages me at times. That never happened before–well–before Reach.
There’s nothing more annoying than being denied a skill jump because it requires sprint–because maps are designed around it, and it had to be given penalties to balance it, and… sigh
> 2535444134435024;7412:
> > 2535434424611465;7410:
> > it gonna take a whole lot more than just that buddy, halo used to be a classic and this company 343 ruined it so bad.
>
>
> Yup they did…
> But its still fun to debate over it
not really, i know this is the internet and throwing the opinion card wont work but -Yoink- i just want bungie back, the popularity\sales and it competing with call of duty again will prove it for me.