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> > > > Yes, 343i is doing a pretty good job with weapon balance. I remember the Sword and Shotgun being overpowered in Halo 2.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wait, what? The Halo 2 Shotgun was overpowered? That piss-poor excuse for a weapon that made less damage than throwing insults at your opponent?
> > > The word “no” doesn’t have enough letters to express the no-ness of this statement…
> >
> >
> > Oh yeah, it did have horrible range. I remember that now, that was part of the reason why the Sword was such a problem. Sorry, it’s been quite a while since I played Halo 2.
>
>
> No disrespect intended. Just wanted to poke fun at the gun, as your post immediately reminded me of that old Stuntmutt webcomic.
> Good tiems.
All good. =)
Everyones always complaining of what they should add or remove i think Halo 5 is a masterpiece and should be respected as such.
I understand the entire argument very well since I used to be in the vocal anti-sprint crowd. I’ve concluded that it’s not sprint that’s the problem. It’s Spartan Charge. If Spartan Charge wasn’t so effective or could be countered, there would be less incentive to run around. I find consistently sprinting works against you unless you can bash people in the process. I’d like to see a more effective counter to sprint/Spartan Charge when you see it coming in Halo 6. Then if the Arena maps were smaller in addition, there would be even less reason to run around. I think adding all the spots to artificially clamber was also a bad idea.
Sprint in Halo 5 is not a game changer is low latency matches unless it’s leading to a lot of Spartan Charge kills. I’m still not the biggest fan of it but it’s not game breaking or Halo breaking. It has it’s place in single player and Warzone. For that reason, I think it stays. I just think they need to make it less of a factor in Arena.
> 2533274832130936;8093:
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> > Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> > On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
>
>
> Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
> we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you
>
> Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
> It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system
Blaming sprint for Halo’s decline in popularity is as narrow sighted as blaming the KISS disco album for the death of disco music and I for one don’t want see classic disco Halo try at a comeback (unless it’s a prequel before REACH/HCE with some sort of ODST small side project vibe to it so everyone knows it’s just an off shoot one time thing).
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> > > Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> > > On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
> >
> >
> > Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
> > we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you
> >
> > Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
> > It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system
>
>
> Blaming sprint for Halo’s decline in popularity is as narrow sighted as blaming the KISS disco album for the death of disco music and I for one don’t want see classic disco Halo try at a comeback (unless it’s a prequel before REACH/HCE with some sort of ODST small side project vibe to it so everyone knows it’s just an off shoot one time thing).
Gameplay is the most important part of a game and sprint fundamentally changed Halo’s gameplay. I don’t see a more plausible culprit around.
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> > > 2533274839169051;8092:
> > > Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> > > On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
> >
> >
> > Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
> > we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you
> >
> > Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
> > It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system
>
>
> Blaming sprint for Halo’s decline in popularity is as narrow sighted as blaming the KISS disco album for the death of disco music and I for one don’t want see classic disco Halo try at a comeback (unless it’s a prequel before REACH/HCE with some sort of ODST small side project vibe to it so everyone knows it’s just an off shoot one time thing).
Sorry to be blunt but all your statement is, is a fairly mediocre analogy and personal opinion…
I agree there is more to Halo’s decline than sprint alone, but look at the overarching trend in the Halo games with sprint…Gameplay is the most important aspect to the game itself, and sprint affects it greatly.
> 2533274839169051;8092:
> Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
Won’t know what’s better untill 343 does it. Even then, 343 have to then not add in a whole different mechanic that could still -Yoink- -Yoink- up. Remove sprint, any many things change with it such as map design, how combat is played, how the gameplay is played. That’s the domino effect of it. I’m quite curious to see how a sprintless halo would work out 10 years after the last one. We still won’t know untill 343 does it, which I don’t think will happen untill 343 do so as a last resort, and even then, they would have lost so much trust that no one would care anymore once they do it. There’s no guarantee a no sprint halo will do better, but there’s no guarantee that it would hurt it as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if h6 has sprint, I’d then wonder what other panalties they’ll add to it to try and “comprimise” for those who dislike it.
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> > I like OP’s suggestion of removing sprint from certain game modes(Arena, Arena-customs, etc.) and leaving it for others (Warzone).
> >
> > However, as much as I would like for sprint to be removed and to have a base movement feel more similar to the old Halos and new DOOM, I don’t think that will make a big difference in regards to player retention as others have mentioned.
>
>
> halo 3 with faster movement speed and hitscan or faster projectiles…i think people would like that more than they think
Oh ya, that sounds awesome. Also, I vote for hitscan.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please kindly guide me to one then, saying their out there isn’t a very good argument.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are you kidding me? It stretching maps is a HUGE change, and has a domino effect through the sandbox. It being an illusion shows that it is at its best an unnecessary change.
> > > >
> > > > You also seem to be purposely keeping out the fact that Sprint separates movement and combat, fundamentally changing the way the game is played.
> > > >
> > > > Those are all facts about how it changes the game. If you like it or not is obviously your own opinion, but almost every pro-sprint argument I’ve seen either completely ignores the changes, or flat out denies them. The amount of, “It still plays like Halo” comments I’ve seen is maddening. At least admit that it changes the game. If you like it then fine.
> > >
> > >
> > > Huge change? How so? Are maps so much more stretched that the large maps of halo ce through 3?
> >
> >
> > It’s not so much about the large maps as large maps are already inherently large and stretched. Usually because designing a map for vehicles and for sprint call for the same types of things.
> >
> > The problem lies in the small maps. Look at midship/heretic and then look at truth. It’s huge and stretched. Every area of the map is significantly larger and stretched out than it’s midship/heretic counterpart. Where are the small, tight maps? Where are the maps like wizard, chillout, lockout, guardian? Nowhere. You can’t make maps that are small and tight in a game with sprint.
>
>
> Where are the small maps you ask… have you not played Coliseum, plaza, overgrowth… they are pretty small maps… and the btb map antifreeze.
But are they well designed? Coliseum, I don’t see very many people in the middle because it’s very open. Plaza, though it has a few tricks to it, doesn’t have very good flow. Overgrowth is probably the best small map, but again, it lacks any real flow. Antifreeze, is almost okay–with sprint-jumps. I guess what I’m getting at is that even though there are small maps, they aren’t particularly good. None of them are on the level of the maps that he listed.
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> > > …you can’t be serious.
> >
> >
> > It might seem bigger because more stuff is crammed in it but size wise it’s not much bigger.
>
>
> Thank you for reminding me why I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.
Isn’t Plaza one of the smaller maps to be in a Halo game?
If you cut out the bases, Coliseum isn’t that much bigger than Wizard was. The fact that it plays so differently is a testament to how poor the map design is in Halo 5. It’s not even close to the level of action that I remember from CTF on Warlock.
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> > > Huge change?
> >
> >
> > It’s not so much about the large maps as large maps are already inherently large and stretched. Usually because designing a map for vehicles and for sprint call for the same types of things.
> >
> > The problem lies in the small maps. Look at midship/heretic and then look at truth. It’s huge and stretched. Every area of the map is significantly larger and stretched out than it’s midship/heretic counterpart. Where are the small, tight maps? Where are the maps like wizard, chillout, lockout, guardian? Nowhere. You can’t make maps that are small and tight in a game with sprint.
>
>
> This is where I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t think sprint is the cause… but it certainly doesn’t help.
>
> Small maps are just gone. you don’t see them anymore. Or if they’re around they feel very different.
> Beaver Creek? Never again. Lockout? Nah, bigger is better. Turf? They must have cleared out the scarab and moved people back in, cuz I’m not seeing it.
>
> Part of the problem is online play- you don’t need small maps for the local 2v2 anymore. As well, better connections and hardware mean we can have larger games (which are awesome yeah), but without small maps its all starts to feel like a 4v4 big team battle.
>
> Sprint doesn’t help this. As designed, sprint would make a simple small map like Wizard or Warlock feel very cramped. You would need to redesign how sprint works (and then it wouldn’t be the familiar sprint we see across the genre) or have maps more complicated- sorta the way Ivory tower stacks a lot of space in its verticality Sprint isn’t a big deal there compared to something else where paths are straighter. Complicated isn’t bad… but I say not being able to do simple is a detriment.
>
> With something like truth… I don’t think this was stretched for sprint. Rather I think they reimagined it as a larger map. I bet they could have taken midship and worked it into something smaller. But then it would have likely been very different and less recognizable as related to midship.
Somebody tested this, Truth is scaled to sprint. It takes just as long to cross with sprint as it did to run across Midship.
> 2533274974907349;8065:
> Also is there a forum about solving the problem instead of arguing over ho is right and who is wrong?
Many members have provided possible solutions. Read the thread.
It’s the people who don’t want to compromise who continue to argue. 343i must cater to both sides, that much is certain.
> 2533274974907349;8068:
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> > > What if sprint was used like slide? Sliding around isn’t very common or nessisary but in some situations it becomes quite handy. If all the game play wasn’t around sprint jest a little more useful than slide could both sides of this debate adapt to this idea.
> >
> >
> > …or we could just take it out completely and stop trying to force unnecessary foreign mechanics into an already near-perfect formula and game for no reason.
>
>
> I don’t consider my idea forcing anyone to use sprint because it’s not very nessisary. I can work with or without sprint. I jest don’t like feeling I need it.
Uh, you need to sprint in Halo 5 multiplayer, because of how the maps are designed. That problem is why this thread exists.
> 2533274897922956;8080:
> Yeah, Halo has to evolve, the Halo 4 way was ok, similar to Reach, but the new spartan habilities, I think that gameplay is smother
So, you thought removing weapon spawns was ok? Being unable to pick up grenades, without a perk, was cool with you?
There are other ways for Halo to evolve.
> 2533274921667958;8085:
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> > Id rather keep sprint.
>
>
> me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game
A Spartan can fire a weapon while running, doesn’t that require a great amount of strength and agility?
> 2533274921667958;8089:
> It’s just how you percieve the sprint ability, sure it changed halo, it might’ve given people a disadvantage who were not used to sprint, or it made fans feel like it’s not halo anymore idk but if you use the ability to your advantage there really is nothing to hate about it am I right? I like sprint just fine, I’d think if they took it away many people would complain, and I’ve been playing halo since early 2000s
So, how I perceive the sprint ability, affects Halo’s map design? Huh?
> 2535467910883490;8091:
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> > Only splits screen can make Halo to Halo again, for me.
>
>
> that is true halo gameplay
Does anybody else miss collecting all of the grenades in a level and using an Overshield to launch a Warthog–into the back of the main cavern of The Silent Cartographer, and then abusing respawns to climb down to the bottom of the shaft?
THUG LIFE
> 2533274816931642;8117:
> > 2533274921667958;8089:
> > It’s just how you percieve the sprint ability, sure it changed halo, it might’ve given people a disadvantage who were not used to sprint, or it made fans feel like it’s not halo anymore idk but if you use the ability to your advantage there really is nothing to hate about it am I right? I like sprint just fine, I’d think if they took it away many people would complain, and I’ve been playing halo since early 2000s
>
>
> So, how I perceive the sprint ability, affects Halo’s map design? Huh?
oh no tiny fish bowl sized maps like Midship are gone and lost forever!
frankly i’m more choked up that the odd HCE maps like Boarding Action & Chiron TL-34 haven’t comeback thanks to how H2/3 ruined the classic HCE kind of PC arena.
> 2533274839169051;8092:
> Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
Oh, so we’re being real now? If Halo 6 has splitscreen and classic Halo gameplay, and it fails, then it will be because the newer generation has no interest in that type of gameplay. I’m getting to an age where I’m going to have to stop playing video games for the most part, because there are other things that I want to do with my life. Plenty of people who are my age have already found much better things to do, and they no longer game at all. If Halo 6 requires as much time and effort as Halo 5, then I probably won’t be completing it–if it even appeals to me at all.
PC master race, yo. FPS is at home on a PC. Always has been, always will be. I honestly believe that a sprint-less Halo would appeal to people who are done with CoD’s BS.
> 2533274832130936;8093:
> > 2533274839169051;8092:
> > Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> > On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.
>
>
> Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
> we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you
>
> Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
> It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system
Bam. I wouldn’t be playing Halo 5 the way that I am now if I was done with grinding already. Reach is still reasonably active, and if I bothered to get a working copy, then I would probably play some Firefight Arcade. As it stands, my only access to Reach at the moment is through Halo CE: Anniversary.
