The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
8082

> 2533274800772611;8017:
> > 2533274816931642;7669:
> > > 2533274800772611;7628:
> > > The only Spartan Abilities that are acceptable IMO are Ground Pound and Smart Scope, and both of them would need to be reworked to work properly in a “real” Halo game. Everything else that 343i added to the game takes away depth and has various other negative impacts on gameplay. This obviously includes Sprint.
> > >
> > > At I think that this is what people mean when they say Halo should still evolve, but remain true to it’s roots. Ground Pound and Smart Scope are fine additions that add to the game experience, and that would work well with Halo’s original gameplay model. Sure, some changes would need to occur, but that’s not a problem. Things like Sprint, Thruster, and Clamber all take away though. They change the gameplay at its core. A lot of the functionality could remain though with other changes. Instead of Thruster or Clamber why not have a double jump type ability. It would do the basically the same things as Thruster and Clamber but have less of the negative side effects. Sprint can be replaced by Man Cannons, Teleporters, and Vehicles, and all of those things would add depth instead of take it away.
> >
> >
> > What, like no hangtime, with some AoE, emphasizing vertical movement on well-designed maps? I could get down with that. =P
>
>
> Exactly my thinking actually. Make it a big risk big reward move. Right now I think it’s too easy to hit, and even if you don’t get the OHKO you are set up to get the easy headshot.

Totally, that’s a brilliant idea, and would require real skill to pull off. I love this idea.

8083

> 2533274855279867;8023:
> > 2533274832130936;8010:
> > > 2533274855279867;8001:
> > > > 2533275035781111;8000:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;7999:
> > > > > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
> > > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7965:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;7964:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7958:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7943:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > > > >
> > > > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please kindly guide me to one then, saying their out there isn’t a very good argument.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you miss the part where I wished they were bookmarked?
> > >
> > > As for good arguments… Saying you havent heard any good ones for sprint is not an argument against sprint. I’m just pointing that out. I am not making an argument by pointing that out.
> > >
> > > I’m sorry I cant be more helpful. If you would, you can look through this very thread. I know theyre in here.
> >
> >
> > Can you give a decent reasons backed by examples on how sprint benefits the series?
> > Or do you just “like it”
> > I’m with hades on this one the only arguments I have ever seen on waypoint in favour of sprint have been
> > “adapt”
> > “I like it”
> > “Spartans should be able to sprint”
> > I honestly haven’t seen a legitimate pro sprint argument entering around the actual mechanic itself to justify its inclusion in the series, and I’ve been on way point since near the beginning
>
>
> I can. and I have.
>
> Can you give a decent reason why its bad for the series or do you just “not like it”
> The only arguments I’ve seen against sprint have been
> “Its not halo”
> “It stretches maps”
> “Sprint is an illusion”
> I honestly haven’t seen an anti sprint argument centering around the mechanic itself that justifies its exclusion from the series, and I’ve been on waypoint since the beginning.
>
> All I’ve seen are opinions. Many dont like sprint, thus any benefit mentioned is disregarded as not legitimate or rebutted with nonsense. When the fact is everyone here (except for a few) seems to be trying to prove their opinion.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: you cannot form solid strategies based upon the unknown. Sprint adds too many variables to reliably calculate, in many instances. This takes away from the depth of the gameplay.

8084

> 2533274855279867;8036:
> > 2535430546770643;8030:
> > > 2533274855279867;8027:
> > > > 2535430546770643;8024:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;7981:
> > > > > > 2535430546770643;7926:
> > > > > > > 2533274855279867;7924:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816931642;7909:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274855279867;7878:
> > > > > > > > > i dont mean that these things cant exist, but that they dont always make sense. Narrows is a fine map, so was beaver creek. But there are a number of maps where these two things would be out of place.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As an aside, the teleporters on beaver creek were not about crossing large spaces, they were about tactics and multiple pathways.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > An example of an awkward teleporter is headlong. There is no reason for it in the original. Its out of place in the city setting. A man cannon is likewise not appropriate thematically, hence the remake using an engine of a crashed vehicle. you can only get so far with this kind of stuff before you really start limiting the kinds of large maps and spaces you can create and still feel natural.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s fair, but do you think that sprint is the best answer? Why?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You’re right about that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That teleporter wasn’t awkward during objective games, like One Bomb Assault, or Two Flag CTF. It wasn’t put there for the map to feel more natural, it was there to provide tactics for objective-based gametypes. The only slayer variant that worked well with Headlong was Snipers. High Ground was another asymmetrical map that was objective-focused, but it was smaller, and much more linear. The teleporters on Wetworks were tactical and natural: they were one route, of several, that you could take the flag, and they made sense. As for the creative limit of teleporters and man-cannons, I don’t feel that it has been reached, by a longshot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > do I think Sprint is the best answer for what? Creating large maps that can support a great number of people but for which teleporters, mancannons, and/or vehicles might not be the best solution? Then yeah… the set up sorta puts sprint as the best solution.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That shouldn’t be the question you ask though. the issue is if sprint is good for the Halo that 343 has created and will likely create. And my answer to that is, again, the problems we have are not necessarily sprints fault. Rather, they are a failing of 343 to create ideal maps.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But still, we haven’t gotten to the heart of the matter. What we should be asking: Is 343 capable of incorporating sprint into a halo game and still maintain the level of quality we’ve come to expect?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To this I would answer, “Probably not.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And yet… is this even the issue? Would 343 be able to create a halo without sprint that manages to recapture the feel and fun of the originals? Again, I don’t think Sprint is the issue. I rather think what we’re seeing is an inherent problem with taking an IP and giving it to another group. Passions and Visions change and so the product is going to be a very different beast no matter what you do.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will say that I think 343 has done admirably with weapon balance. I thought Halo 4 played very well under the right settings (umm… get that ordnance crap outta there! Instant respawn? GARBAGE!!!), but suffered from maps that were uninspired at best (though I think a couple were verging on being decent. I couldn’t name them though). Halo 5 is much the same. Despite the gameplay, overhaul I still think we’re dealing with subpar maps. I don’t know what their process is, but its not putting out the same stuff as Bungie did. Even the “boring maps” of halo 2- colossus and burial grounds are two that come to mind- were wonderful with the right gametypes and could be fantastic playgrounds for the gameplay of halo 2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, is the teleporter in Headlong awkward? Yes. Not gameplay wise, but thematically. What business does a teleporter have sitting in the middle of a construction zone? Can we justify the existence of these things? Sure. Forerunners and covenant tech can explain away a lot… but what in the world are man cannons doing in the middle of the Halo 5 warzone maps? These things would kill just about any non-spartan that uses them. Sure they play well, but now we’ve already started hitting walls where the coherence of gameplay and theme breaks down. We’ve seen two games where 343 can’t create a standout map.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > but yeah… lets blame sprint for ruining halo rather than consider that the IP just isn’t going to survive the changeover well
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint was here and a major issue before 343 took over.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Big maps would work fine with a high BMS. In fact they would work better because not only would they be large but they would be scaled in such a way that would eliminate the “no man’s land” areas that plague big maps in sprint halo games.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > nonsense. Sprint was not a major problem (good luck qualifying that term satisfactorily), and dead zones appear in just about any large map. Sidewinder had plenty of spaces that were barren. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It was most definitely a large issue. The MLG playlist saw a 10x jump in population when sprint was removed. What kind of logic would suggest it was a major issue in h4 and h5 but not in Reach? That makes no sense. Sorry if it destroys your revisionist history lesson.
> > > >
> > > > Maps like sidewinder had areas designed for vechile play. That’s not the same as large deadzones areas that are designed for foot traffic.
> > >
> > >
> > > you dont think mlg jumped because the list more closely resembled previous halos? no AA’s at all (edit: as ladouts. I know they were pickups). no bloom? map selection? Please lets talk revisionist history.
> > >
> > > Yes sidewinder is vehicular. So what maps have such dead zones that you think were intended for intense combat and not thoroughfare?
> >
> >
> > It literally changed over night to ZBNS and saw a 10x population jump. Was some of that due to no bloom? No question. But to assert that NONE of it was because of sprint going is just straight up ridiculous. Don’t be silly.
> >
> > Look no further than h5’s viking. H3’s Valhalla was a vechile and foot traffic friendly map. Viking has massssssive deadzones that can hardly be traversed at all. Games are way more stagnant on viking than they were on Valhalla because of the map scaling.
>
>
> I never said none of that was sprint- i don’t know if you’re strawman’ing me, stating the obvious, or simply misreading. Now, I have no doubts that there were people who disliked sprint. But to laud the 10x increase in a Sprint debate is disingenuous at best. My suspicion was that bloom played the biggest part of it, followed by the AA’s and then map selection. Reach played really well without bloom, as it turns out, more so with the right settings.
>
> I’ll have to look up viking. the recent halo games have been so bland that I really couldn’t name a single map… (y’know its that one map with the stuff and the thing…). The thing about it now isn’t that sprint is causing these dead zones, but that 343 can’t manage to design a map that plays exceptionally. My guess is that they intended some of these areas to be more empty and only act as a path or region in-between other zones. That isn’t sprint, thats 343 making maps larger simply by making empty space. There is nothing about sprint that necessitates large empty space.

When maps are scaled to sprint, and you get punished for sprinting all the time, uh…

Won’t maps that are scaled to BMS have pacing problems when sprint is brought into the picture?

8085

> 2533274816299345;2:
> Id rather keep sprint.

me too, I was always like well how the hell can a spartan not run super fast, he or she has great agility and strength in the game

8086

> 2533274861713927;8043:
> > 2533274816931642;7929:
> > > 2533274861713927;7883:
> > > > 2533274816931642;7857:
> > > > > 2533274861713927;7851:
> > > > > > 2533274816931642;7786:
> > > > > > > 2533274861713927;7738:
> > > > > > > Having sprint in a Halo game doesn’t ruin Halo. Just because a mechanic got added into the game doesn’t mean it changes what is Halo. Really, sprint is a nice feature to have. Yeah, I don’t use it constantly, but I use it when I feel the need for it. Really, you should be thinking about how 343 is trying to add newer things to Halo to make a great game even better. Yes, sometimes they’re not exactly on point with some features, but that’s why our feedback is important. If you seriously feel like a small mechanic like sprint breaks a games, what about something like assassinations? Or some of the other mechanics that was introduced in Halo: Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was cool with ninjas, they took more skill than holding melee and grappling your opponent when they were out of melee range. The animation for assassinations takes too long, I have them turned off in Halo 5. Halo 4 was trying to be CoD, and–did you even read anything in this thread? I don’t think that you even need to answer that.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I did read the thread. A lot of it actually. All I was saying was a game mechanic like sprint doesn’t ruin a game and added the thing in about assassinations because it wasn’t always in Halo. By the way, tell me how Halo was trying to be like Call of Duty. I’m real interested in that one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When the game is designed around a game mechanic like sprint, and that mechanic doesn’t really add anything to the gameplay, then yes, it has ruined Halo. In a twitch shooter, it makes sense, but with Halo’s TTK, it just bogs down the gameplay. Assassinations were a cool idea, but they also slowed the gameplay down.
> > > > CoD has:
> > > > Limited sprint
> > > > Loadouts
> > > > Killstreaks
> > > > Halo 4 had:
> > > > Limited sprint
> > > > Loadouts
> > > > Killstreaks
> > > > Explain how Halo 4 wasn’t CoD. TTK, weapons, and map design are pretty much the only real differences. And vehicles, I suppose, but yeah, it sure wasn’t a Halo game.
> > >
> > >
> > > So because a game has limited sprint, kill streaks, and loadouts, it makes a clone of another game, right?
> > >
> > > I guess that would mean Battlefield is just Call of Duty because it as all the things you described. Next you’ll tell me Saints Row is a clone of Grand Theft Auto because you can steal a car. Now, when 343 copies a call of duty story, maybe then I’ll say Halo was trying to Call of Duty, but Halo hasn’t done that yet.
> >
> >
> > Listen, I played CoD enough to know what it felt like, and Halo 4 felt a lot more like CoD than Halo. I can go on: perks, no weapon pickups on maps, unable to pick up grenades without a perk, needing to be at a certain rank in order to gain access to specific weapons and such…
> >
> > In case you haven’t noticed, all Bungie and 343i have cared about since Halo CE is the multiplayer. Playing Halo 4’s multiplayer felt like playing CoD. I mean, grenades couldn’t even be picked up without a perk. Like, WUT!?
>
>
> Trust me I know what you mean. I’m not going to deny that Halo has changed since really Halo 3, but I do still enjoy the Halo games. I can see where you come from about it feeling like Call of Duty, but I can also understand that 343 is trying to branch away from what Bungie was doing, but also expanding on ideas Bungie laid out also(sprint and other armor abilities). You also make a pretty good point on 343 caring more for the multiplayer. The story of the Halo games have gotten shorter and less in depth than what they use to be.

If I didn’t get any enjoyment out of Halo 5, then I wouldn’t be just shy of SR147. However, that doesn’t change the fact that classic Halo’s simple gameplay and elegant map design were what made it so great. I understand that 343i is trying to make the franchise it’s own as well, but I also don’t think that changing it’s core gameplay was a very good way to do that. Reach was a spin-off, and armor abilities weren’t balanced very well. Spartan abilities aren’t very balanced either. As for the campaign, yeah, believe me, I was pretty disappointed with Bungie, but at least they gave us a solid multiplayer experience.

8087

> 2533274855279867;8008:
> > 2535456165221911;8005:
> > > 2533274855279867;8002:
> > > > 2535456165221911;7987:
> > > > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
> > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7965:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;7964:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7958:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7943:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > >
> > > Thats what you call opinion.
> >
> >
> > Your statement is also called opinion.
>
>
> exactly. glad you’re following, especially when I said it was opinion. A+ reading comprehension.

Thank you, I shall go and boast about me having A+.

Anyway, my opinion is Halo 5 is not immersive nor realistic to me.

8088

> 2533274816931642;8086:
> > 2533274861713927;8043:
> > > 2533274816931642;7929:
> > > > 2533274861713927;7883:
> > > > > 2533274816931642;7857:
> > > > > > 2533274861713927;7851:
> > > > > > > 2533274816931642;7786:
> > > > > > > > 2533274861713927;7738:
> > > > > > > > Having sprint in a Halo game doesn’t ruin Halo. Just because a mechanic got added into the game doesn’t mean it changes what is Halo. Really, sprint is a nice feature to have. Yeah, I don’t use it constantly, but I use it when I feel the need for it. Really, you should be thinking about how 343 is trying to add newer things to Halo to make a great game even better. Yes, sometimes they’re not exactly on point with some features, but that’s why our feedback is important. If you seriously feel like a small mechanic like sprint breaks a games, what about something like assassinations? Or some of the other mechanics that was introduced in Halo: Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was cool with ninjas, they took more skill than holding melee and grappling your opponent when they were out of melee range. The animation for assassinations takes too long, I have them turned off in Halo 5. Halo 4 was trying to be CoD, and–did you even read anything in this thread? I don’t think that you even need to answer that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, I did read the thread. A lot of it actually. All I was saying was a game mechanic like sprint doesn’t ruin a game and added the thing in about assassinations because it wasn’t always in Halo. By the way, tell me how Halo was trying to be like Call of Duty. I’m real interested in that one.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > When the game is designed around a game mechanic like sprint, and that mechanic doesn’t really add anything to the gameplay, then yes, it has ruined Halo. In a twitch shooter, it makes sense, but with Halo’s TTK, it just bogs down the gameplay. Assassinations were a cool idea, but they also slowed the gameplay down.
> > > > > CoD has:
> > > > > Limited sprint
> > > > > Loadouts
> > > > > Killstreaks
> > > > > Halo 4 had:
> > > > > Limited sprint
> > > > > Loadouts
> > > > > Killstreaks
> > > > > Explain how Halo 4 wasn’t CoD. TTK, weapons, and map design are pretty much the only real differences. And vehicles, I suppose, but yeah, it sure wasn’t a Halo game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So because a game has limited sprint, kill streaks, and loadouts, it makes a clone of another game, right?
> > > >
> > > > I guess that would mean Battlefield is just Call of Duty because it as all the things you described. Next you’ll tell me Saints Row is a clone of Grand Theft Auto because you can steal a car. Now, when 343 copies a call of duty story, maybe then I’ll say Halo was trying to Call of Duty, but Halo hasn’t done that yet.
> > >
> > >
> > > Listen, I played CoD enough to know what it felt like, and Halo 4 felt a lot more like CoD than Halo. I can go on: perks, no weapon pickups on maps, unable to pick up grenades without a perk, needing to be at a certain rank in order to gain access to specific weapons and such…
> > >
> > > In case you haven’t noticed, all Bungie and 343i have cared about since Halo CE is the multiplayer. Playing Halo 4’s multiplayer felt like playing CoD. I mean, grenades couldn’t even be picked up without a perk. Like, WUT!?
> >
> >
> > Trust me I know what you mean. I’m not going to deny that Halo has changed since really Halo 3, but I do still enjoy the Halo games. I can see where you come from about it feeling like Call of Duty, but I can also understand that 343 is trying to branch away from what Bungie was doing, but also expanding on ideas Bungie laid out also(sprint and other armor abilities). You also make a pretty good point on 343 caring more for the multiplayer. The story of the Halo games have gotten shorter and less in depth than what they use to be.
>
>
> If I didn’t get any enjoyment out of Halo 5, then I wouldn’t be just shy of SR147. However, that doesn’t change the fact that classic Halo’s simple gameplay and elegant map design were what made it so great. I understand that 343i is trying to make the franchise it’s own as well, but I also don’t think that changing it’s core gameplay was a very good way to do that. Reach was a spin-off, and armor abilities weren’t balanced very well. Spartan abilities aren’t very balanced either. As for the campaign, yeah, believe me, I was pretty disappointed with Bungie, but at least they gave us a solid multiplayer experience.

You were disappointed with Bungie’s campaign? That is quite surprising.

8089

It’s just how you percieve the sprint ability, sure it changed halo, it might’ve given people a disadvantage who were not used to sprint, or it made fans feel like it’s not halo anymore idk but if you use the ability to your advantage there really is nothing to hate about it am I right? I like sprint just fine, I’d think if they took it away many people would complain, and I’ve been playing halo since early 2000s

8090

Only splits screen can make Halo to Halo again, for me.

8091

> 2535450453445225;8090:
> Only splits screen can make Halo to Halo again, for me.

that is true halo gameplay

8092

Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.

8093

> 2533274839169051;8092:
> Let’s be real if they remove sprint in H6 and it does the same sales as H5G or less or bombs you guys will still just blame REACH, H4, & H5G while saying those ruined Halo so no one is coming back ever.
> On the unlikely off chance sprintless H6 does better than the recent Halos it will be likely we all have been transported to another world in which there’s only one console with only one FPS game on the entire planet.

Because the halos with sprint have done so well right?
we have no had three games with sprint and the best one of the three in both sales and player population/player retention wise has been halo reach regardless of what 343 will tell you

Halo with sprint has had its chance and (for a number of different reasons including sprint) has failed
It’s time for halo to evolve again and the most logical evolution is to remove sprint and return to a more classic movement system

8094

I don’t see how people are disagreeing with the fundamental facts here…Valid arguments for removing or keeping sprint aside…

Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 were extremely popular AND CRUCIALLY, retained a huge player population for a long time afterwards…

Sure Halo 4 and Halo 5 may have sold millions of copies, but look at the PLAYER RETENTION…How many people still play the game regularly compared to how many people played Halo 2 and Halo 3…

Yes, there are now a huge number of other FPS’s available, obviously that will draw people away to an extent. But that alone cannot account for the HUGE drop in the player population that Halo 4 and Halo 5 have both had…

Most people play the campaign through (sometimes several times on different difficulties) but ultimately it’s the multiplayer that keeps people playing regularly…So logically that is where the problem lies. Ask yourselves, what is the main difference in multiplayer between Halo 2 and Halo 3, and Halo 4 and Halo 5?

8095

> 2535430546770643;8041:
> > 2533274855279867;8037:
> > > 2533274800772611;8031:
> > > > 2533274855279867;8023:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;8010:
> > > > > > 2533274855279867;8001:
> > > > > > > 2533275035781111;8000:
> > > > > > > > 2533274855279867;7999:
> > > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7965:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;7964:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7958:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7943:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please kindly guide me to one then, saying their out there isn’t a very good argument.
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you kidding me? It stretching maps is a HUGE change, and has a domino effect through the sandbox. It being an illusion shows that it is at its best an unnecessary change.
> > >
> > > You also seem to be purposely keeping out the fact that Sprint separates movement and combat, fundamentally changing the way the game is played.
> > >
> > > Those are all facts about how it changes the game. If you like it or not is obviously your own opinion, but almost every pro-sprint argument I’ve seen either completely ignores the changes, or flat out denies them. The amount of, “It still plays like Halo” comments I’ve seen is maddening. At least admit that it changes the game. If you like it then fine.
> >
> >
> > Huge change? How so? Are maps so much more stretched that the large maps of halo ce through 3?
>
>
> It’s not so much about the large maps as large maps are already inherently large and stretched. Usually because designing a map for vehicles and for sprint call for the same types of things.
>
> The problem lies in the small maps. Look at midship/heretic and then look at truth. It’s huge and stretched. Every area of the map is significantly larger and stretched out than it’s midship/heretic counterpart. Where are the small, tight maps? Where are the maps like wizard, chillout, lockout, guardian? Nowhere. You can’t make maps that are small and tight in a game with sprint.

Completely and 100% on point with this statement ^^^

COmparing maps in general from one game to another is too vague and open to interpretation…

Compare a large map primarily designed for BTB on Halo 3, e.g. Valhalla… to a large map on Halo 4 e.g. Ragnarok
Compare a relatively small map designed for CQC on Halo 3, e.g. Heretic… to a small map on Halo 5 e.g. Truth

THEN state that the maps aren’t stretched out in order to accommodate sprint with a straight face…

8096

> 2533274886267116;19:
> The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract these gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well. Don’t get me wrong I had fun playing halo 3(my first halo and firs Xbox game) but ounce I got to other games like battlefield and even cod I noticed how slow the gameplay actually was.

Sorry but Halo 2 and 3 were way faster paced than any Halo since…

8097

I like OP’s suggestion of removing sprint from certain game modes(Arena, Arena-customs, etc.) and leaving it for others (Warzone).

However, as much as I would like for sprint to be removed and to have a base movement feel more similar to the old Halos and new DOOM, I don’t think that will make a big difference in regards to player retention as others have mentioned.

8098

> 2533274964246645;8097:
> I like OP’s suggestion of removing sprint from certain game modes(Arena, Arena-customs, etc.) and leaving it for others (Warzone).
>
> However, as much as I would like for sprint to be removed and to have a base movement feel more similar to the old Halos and new DOOM, I don’t think that will make a big difference in regards to player retention as others have mentioned.

halo 3 with faster movement speed and hitscan or faster projectiles…i think people would like that more than they think

8099

> 2535456165221911;8088:
> > 2533274816931642;8086:
> > > 2533274861713927;8043:
> > > > 2533274816931642;7929:
> > > > > 2533274861713927;7883:
> > > > > > 2533274816931642;7857:
> > > > > > > 2533274861713927;7851:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816931642;7786:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274861713927;7738:
> > > > > > > > > Having sprint in a Halo game doesn’t ruin Halo. Just because a mechanic got added into the game doesn’t mean it changes what is Halo. Really, sprint is a nice feature to have. Yeah, I don’t use it constantly, but I use it when I feel the need for it. Really, you should be thinking about how 343 is trying to add newer things to Halo to make a great game even better. Yes, sometimes they’re not exactly on point with some features, but that’s why our feedback is important. If you seriously feel like a small mechanic like sprint breaks a games, what about something like assassinations? Or some of the other mechanics that was introduced in Halo: Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was cool with ninjas, they took more skill than holding melee and grappling your opponent when they were out of melee range. The animation for assassinations takes too long, I have them turned off in Halo 5. Halo 4 was trying to be CoD, and–did you even read anything in this thread? I don’t think that you even need to answer that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah, I did read the thread. A lot of it actually. All I was saying was a game mechanic like sprint doesn’t ruin a game and added the thing in about assassinations because it wasn’t always in Halo. By the way, tell me how Halo was trying to be like Call of Duty. I’m real interested in that one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When the game is designed around a game mechanic like sprint, and that mechanic doesn’t really add anything to the gameplay, then yes, it has ruined Halo. In a twitch shooter, it makes sense, but with Halo’s TTK, it just bogs down the gameplay. Assassinations were a cool idea, but they also slowed the gameplay down.
> > > > > > CoD has:
> > > > > > Limited sprint
> > > > > > Loadouts
> > > > > > Killstreaks
> > > > > > Halo 4 had:
> > > > > > Limited sprint
> > > > > > Loadouts
> > > > > > Killstreaks
> > > > > > Explain how Halo 4 wasn’t CoD. TTK, weapons, and map design are pretty much the only real differences. And vehicles, I suppose, but yeah, it sure wasn’t a Halo game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So because a game has limited sprint, kill streaks, and loadouts, it makes a clone of another game, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess that would mean Battlefield is just Call of Duty because it as all the things you described. Next you’ll tell me Saints Row is a clone of Grand Theft Auto because you can steal a car. Now, when 343 copies a call of duty story, maybe then I’ll say Halo was trying to Call of Duty, but Halo hasn’t done that yet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Listen, I played CoD enough to know what it felt like, and Halo 4 felt a lot more like CoD than Halo. I can go on: perks, no weapon pickups on maps, unable to pick up grenades without a perk, needing to be at a certain rank in order to gain access to specific weapons and such…
> > > >
> > > > In case you haven’t noticed, all Bungie and 343i have cared about since Halo CE is the multiplayer. Playing Halo 4’s multiplayer felt like playing CoD. I mean, grenades couldn’t even be picked up without a perk. Like, WUT!?
> > >
> > >
> > > Trust me I know what you mean. I’m not going to deny that Halo has changed since really Halo 3, but I do still enjoy the Halo games. I can see where you come from about it feeling like Call of Duty, but I can also understand that 343 is trying to branch away from what Bungie was doing, but also expanding on ideas Bungie laid out also(sprint and other armor abilities). You also make a pretty good point on 343 caring more for the multiplayer. The story of the Halo games have gotten shorter and less in depth than what they use to be.
> >
> >
> > If I didn’t get any enjoyment out of Halo 5, then I wouldn’t be just shy of SR147. However, that doesn’t change the fact that classic Halo’s simple gameplay and elegant map design were what made it so great. I understand that 343i is trying to make the franchise it’s own as well, but I also don’t think that changing it’s core gameplay was a very good way to do that. Reach was a spin-off, and armor abilities weren’t balanced very well. Spartan abilities aren’t very balanced either. As for the campaign, yeah, believe me, I was pretty disappointed with Bungie, but at least they gave us a solid multiplayer experience.
>
>
> You were disappointed with Bungie’s campaign? That is quite surprising.

Halo 2 and Halo 3 had some decent level design, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think that anyone can deny that the stories weren’t paced as well as CE’s was. Halo 3 was done much better overall, but Halo 2’s campaign didn’t have the same magic as CE, especially when it came to Legendary. Jackal sniper, need I say more? The dual narratives was a good idea, but it was poorly executed. However, the amount of exploration that could be done was great, especially on Delta Halo. Anyway, Halo 5 has every other Halo title beat as far as bad campaigns are concerned, so while Bungie made some misteps, they are nothing compared to what 343i has done.

8100

> 2533274816931642;8061:
> > 2533274801176260;8059:
> > > 2533274816931642;8057:
> > > Yes, 343i is doing a pretty good job with weapon balance. I remember the Sword and Shotgun being overpowered in Halo 2.
> >
> >
> > Wait, what? The Halo 2 Shotgun was overpowered? That piss-poor excuse for a weapon that made less damage than throwing insults at your opponent?
> > The word “no” doesn’t have enough letters to express the no-ness of this statement…
>
>
> Oh yeah, it did have horrible range. I remember that now, that was part of the reason why the Sword was such a problem. Sorry, it’s been quite a while since I played Halo 2.

No disrespect intended. Just wanted to poke fun at the gun, as your post immediately reminded me of that old Stuntmutt webcomic.
Good tiems.

8101

> 2533274855279867;8044:
> > 2535430546770643;8040:
> > > 2533274855279867;8036:
> > > I never said none of that was sprint- i don’t know if you’re strawman’ing me, stating the obvious, or simply misreading. Now, I have no doubts that there were people who disliked sprint. But to laud the 10x increase in a Sprint debate is disingenuous at best. My suspicion was that bloom played the biggest part of it, followed by the AA’s and then map selection. Reach played really well without bloom, as it turns out, more so with the right settings.
> > > I’ll have to look up viking. the recent halo games have been so bland that I really couldn’t name a single map… (y’know its that one map with the stuff and the thing…). The thing about it now isn’t that sprint is causing these dead zones, but that 343 can’t manage to design a map that plays exceptionally. My guess is that they intended some of these areas to be more empty and only act as a path or region in-between other zones. That isn’t sprint, thats 343 making maps larger simply by making empty space. There is nothing about sprint that necessitates large empty space.
> >
> >
> > You know how I know im right? In h4 343 added Legendary slayer. It had no AAs, it had no bloom and it used some more classic style maps. Guess what? It didn’t budge the population needle one bit. Why? It still had sprint. You can remove all those other issues and keep sprint and the population won’t change. Remove sprint? 10x jump in population. This isn’t a theory or an assumption. This is history. These are facts.
> >
> > 343 didn’t make viking. It’s a community forge map. Sprint 100% necessitates empty space.
>
>
> viking is community? crud. I havent kept up on it since other games have come out.
>
> Still, h4 legendary isnt proof of anything. I’m fairly certain Reach was more popular that 4 population wise. Halo 4 had a number of other systems at work as well that might have kept people away. Those alone mean you cannot say for certain that sprint was the cause. Again, did it matter? Yes, for some. Is it the biggest factor? You cannot say… but given you dont seem to know what “necessitates” means, I’ll let you slide.

Truth has a lot of empty space compared to Midship because it’s scaled to sprint, and nobody sprints the entire time. It doesn’t flow well.

As for other games, Halo 2, 3, and ODST interested me so much that I’ve never played Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories, and Vice City was my second favorite GTA. Halo 4 was so off-putting that I still haven’t completed my first specialization. In Halo 5, the most glaring issue is maps that are designed around sprint.

Anyway, I’m not sure that Moltened’s claim can be inferred because of how different H4 was. I know that I stopped playing because GTA V was a much, much better game.