> 2535456165221911;7987:
> > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> >
> >
> > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
>
>
> Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
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> > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
> > > > > > 2535430546770643;7965:
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> > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7958:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> >
> >
> > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
>
>
> Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
>
> Thats what you call opinion.
The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
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> > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
> > > > > 2533275035781111;7967:
> > > > > > 2535430546770643;7965:
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> > > > > > > > 2535430546770643;7958:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7943:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> >
> >
> > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
>
>
> Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
>
> Thats what you call opinion.
> 2533275035781111;8003:
> > 2533274855279867;8002:
> > > 2535456165221911;7987:
> > > > 2533275035781111;7985:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;7984:
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> > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7944:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7943:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;7941:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274871103886;7939:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > >
> > >
> > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> >
> >
> > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> >
> > Thats what you call opinion.
>
>
> The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
> 2535456165221911;8005:
> > 2533274855279867;8002:
> > > 2535456165221911;7987:
> > > > 2533275035781111;7985:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > >
> > >
> > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> >
> >
> > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> >
> > Thats what you call opinion.
>
>
> Your statement is also called opinion.
exactly. glad you’re following, especially when I said it was opinion. A+ reading comprehension.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > >
> > >
> > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > >
> > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> >
> >
> > Please kindly guide me to one then, saying their out there isn’t a very good argument.
>
>
> Did you miss the part where I wished they were bookmarked?
>
> As for good arguments… Saying you havent heard any good ones for sprint is not an argument against sprint. I’m just pointing that out. I am not making an argument by pointing that out.
>
> I’m sorry I cant be more helpful. If you would, you can look through this very thread. I know theyre in here.
Can you give a decent reasons backed by examples on how sprint benefits the series?
Or do you just “like it”
I’m with hades on this one the only arguments I have ever seen on waypoint in favour of sprint have been
“adapt”
“I like it”
“Spartans should be able to sprint”
I honestly haven’t seen a legitimate pro sprint argument entering around the actual mechanic itself to justify its inclusion in the series, and I’ve been on way point since near the beginning
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> > > > > > NO IT WON’t
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have any thoughts as to why it won’t?
> > > > > care to elaborate at all?
> >
> >
> > Sprint should stay because I really enjoy smashing into people at full speed whilst they are camping with a sniper rifle and oblivious to the onrushing Spartan mayhem about to be unleashed upon them. Seriously the maps are designed for the use of sprint , I still have CE nightmares about bouncing across the map to get to a location quicker and thinking"I’m a -Yoinking!- super soldier, why can’t I RUN a bit faster?"
> > Don’t get me wrong I have posted before that for HALO 6 or even as a HALO 5 update surely they could put a dev team on a proper remake of Classic HALO multiplayer with all the original settings with next generation graphics running at 60 fps as a separate playlist for OG gamers, or hell just for people who have never experienced these game modes to try out, if they are underpopulated, so what! I have 200 armour sets that I will never use, why remove one ability"sprint" when you can have both. I know I would be dipping into a bit of “blood gulch” sniper’s and pistols. HEY 343 ARE YOU LISTENING. Peace out. LBC
>
>
> So you don’t like “campers”, I mean this isn’t COD, but okay. Seriously Halo 5 can work well without sprint. The maps are more designed for the use of Clamber rather than sprint. You are complaining about not being able to get across the map, even though there were vehicles on many maps. Also we have a “classic” Halo multiplayer running at 60fps called H2A. It was actually really good attempt at making a classic Halo game, too bad the matchmaking was so broken.
I don’t think clamber, would work so well without sprint the words sitting target or would that be “Clambering Target” come to mind. Sprint gives Clamber the Parkour effect which is cool and it is very fluid. Killing’s no fun if you are taking aim at soft targets. For every argument there is a counter and a million other clichés. The point is do you really think 343 would take a Massive gamble and it would be a MASSIVE gamble to revert back to Classic Halo? As gamers get older they play less and less, and the new generation rises, so really it’s up to them to take the baton and people like me to either adapt or fade away. Would Classic Halo work? Of course it would but would people play it? That is the dilemma. LBC peace out
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> > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> >
> >
> > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
>
>
> Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
>
> 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
I’ll agree that other games use sprint and they are fine.
In my opinion, sprint works well for twitch shooters. For arena shooters, sprint isn’t required and makes balance very difficult.
I was watching a youtube video of Ghandi (A halo 2/3 pro) and he gave his first impressions of Halo 5. His thought on sprint was that it wasn’t bad, but he thought it would be better if your movement speed changed based off which gun you held. For example, you would move a little faster with single handed weapons and have a standard base speed for two handed and power weapons.
> 2533274873746228;8015:
> Don’t understand why everyone is so salty with the sprint ability
There are several reasons detailed in the thread. They usually get repeated every 10 pages or so because no debate happens.
You can pretty much glean this entire thread by reading the last 10 pages. You’ll get a decent idea of whose pro-sprint/anti-sprint and you can view post history if you’re interested in the topic and want to understand.
> 2533274816931642;7669:
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> > The only Spartan Abilities that are acceptable IMO are Ground Pound and Smart Scope, and both of them would need to be reworked to work properly in a “real” Halo game. Everything else that 343i added to the game takes away depth and has various other negative impacts on gameplay. This obviously includes Sprint.
> >
> > At I think that this is what people mean when they say Halo should still evolve, but remain true to it’s roots. Ground Pound and Smart Scope are fine additions that add to the game experience, and that would work well with Halo’s original gameplay model. Sure, some changes would need to occur, but that’s not a problem. Things like Sprint, Thruster, and Clamber all take away though. They change the gameplay at its core. A lot of the functionality could remain though with other changes. Instead of Thruster or Clamber why not have a double jump type ability. It would do the basically the same things as Thruster and Clamber but have less of the negative side effects. Sprint can be replaced by Man Cannons, Teleporters, and Vehicles, and all of those things would add depth instead of take it away.
>
>
> What, like no hangtime, with some AoE, emphasizing vertical movement on well-designed maps? I could get down with that. =P
Exactly my thinking actually. Make it a big risk big reward move. Right now I think it’s too easy to hit, and even if you don’t get the OHKO you are set up to get the easy headshot.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> >
> >
> > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> >
> > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
>
>
> I’ll agree that other games use sprint and they are fine.
> In my opinion, sprint works well for twitch shooters. For arena shooters, sprint isn’t required and makes balance very difficult.
>
> I was watching a youtube video of Ghandi (A halo 2/3 pro) and he gave his first impressions of Halo 5. His thought on sprint was that it wasn’t bad, but he thought it would be better if your movement speed changed based off which gun you held. For example, you would move a little faster with single handed weapons and have a standard base speed for two handed and power weapons.
I don’t understand why there has to be a change in movement speed though. Why do we need needless change? I get that people think that past Halo games are slow. But Halo 2 usually isn’t what people think of, it’s usually 3 and Reach. Why don’t we use Halo 2 as the base for the game, increase base movement speed a little bit, and open up the field of view? That would make the game feel very fast, without having to completely change the balance and design of the maps and sandbox.
> 2533274855279867;8007:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Which is 343’s justification for the inclusion of sprint. It makes no sense to me when 343 talks about immersion and realism in this game, while the game never looks realistic and mechanics are not immersive and unrealistic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not immersive? The mechancs feel great to me as far as immersion goes.
> > >
> > > Thats what you call opinion.
> >
> >
> > The point he’s making is that plenty of other things kill immersion, unlimited ammo vehicles, shields taking more damage to the head, being unable to go prone, having an AR with no range and less damage per bullet than a pistol, the halo games never were super immersive and realistic, we aren’t playing a simulator game.
>
>
> immersion and simulator are not the same thing. You can be highly immersed in something that isn’t highly realistic. Immersion is subjective and dependent on the level of player engagement and empathy
>
> I understand his point, but said point is not effective. Few people worry about what happens to the extra bullets in a magazine when you reload… but loads of people care about feeling sluggish when playing a game where the entire galaxy is at stake (oh noes!).
But with a 120 BMS you wouldn’t be sluggish at all. This is where doom fits in as a much better example, there were plenty of life or death moments with large amounts of suspense but they never made you feel slow because you couldn’t sprint.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > I say OP makes this a poll. I’d like to see the percentages of people that prefer sprint compared to those who don’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here are some polls pertaining to sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > now of course you will probably say that these polls don’t mean anything because I’m assuming they are going to be contrary to what you believe, but here they are
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reditt poll
> > > > > > > > > > > > Beyond.net
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > and finally just for the sake of showing unbiased here is a poll from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Waypoint You will see that the first two polls show a wide margin of people in favour of having sprint removed compared to staying and in the waypoint poll it’s actually pretty close but still
> > > > > > > > > > > > slightly in favour for sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS. Polls don’t mean anything
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Quite to the contrary; I think sprint should be removed. I am also irrated at the fact that non halo fans are dictating halo’s mechanics. It just goes to show mismanagement of the franchise when you are trying to appeal to a new audience despite it hurting and destroying the fan base they currently have. And you’re right polls mean nothing. It’s hilarious that the polls are so definitive yet 343/Microsoft refuse to adjust the gameplay mechanics to how the fans want them. Polls are meaningless when developers/publishers hold a franchise hostage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then I honestly apologise for making the assumption
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > i I love how despite those two polls I referenced Quinn del Hoya states that 77% of players polled wanted sprint to remain in the “offical poll” 343 conducted
> > > > > > > > > > For referenceThis is is what’s known as selection bias , especially considering there are other polls in other communities which swing as much as 95% in favour of removing sprint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I also enjoyed how during the development of H4 they said that they (343) intentionally hired people who “didn’t like halo”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using polls as a way to design a game is a horrendous strategy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say im making a building and I invite 1000 people in to give me their opinions on the building. 900 of these people say it’s amazing. They love it. It looks really cool and fancy. The other 100 say(who just happen to be engineers by trade) tell you that it is structurally flawed, unstable and dangerous. Should I ignore those 100 people because they are in a 90-10% minority? Obviously not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s actually a pretty poor analogy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To relate that back to what we are talking about it would have to be applied like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I add a new feature (sprint) to a video gamee and ask for 1000 people’s opinions. 900 people love the new feature. 100 people do not, those 100 people are game designers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s essentially what you said with the 100 people who were engineers and know about building construction.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All 1000 of us (i’m sure there are a few exceptions), are just fans playing the game, not game developers. It seems like 900 people like sprint (and are likely younger/new generation players) & 100 people don’t like sprint (which are likely older generation, don’t change the winning formula players.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok. Let’s change that from engineers by trade to “people who seem to atleast want to talk about the structural integrity of the building instead of just talking about how cool the paint colour is”. Better?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem with this sprint debate is that one side is looking deeper at the mechanic while the other is only looking at the very most surface layer. If someone can actually explain to 343 how sprint affects each area of the game and why those effects are good, than that’s awesome. However 10,000 people saying “I like sprint because it looks cool” doesn’t mean anything. These types of people clearly have no idea how sprint affects the other aspects of the game. Due to this sprint could actually be a huge detrimental game mechanic to those same people. They just don’t see it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reason sprint debates look like “veterans/good players vs new/bad players” is simply because those vets/good players are the players who understand the game. They see how every aspect of the game’s design affects the other aspects. That knowledge is generally what makes good players good. This knowledge also reveals the flaws of sprint. Newer players don’t see these flaws because all they see is the surface layer of sprint. What it literally is as a mechanic. They don’t see the subtle influences it has on other mechanics. This is why if you look through this thread you’ll see a lot of posts along the lines of “what’s the problem you just press a button and go fast. Don’t like it, don’t press the button”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still have yet to see a competent argument for pro sprint, and many of the non competent arguments change sides after having evreything explained to them. If 343 put an evolved settings btb/arena playlist in for a week I bet it would be the most populated playlist as long as it’s in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe because you haven’t looked?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve been on this thread since around page ten where I first posted to now, I’ve missed maby ten pages between them and now and the best I’ve seen is immersion,
> > >
> > >
> > > Look harder. There are plenty of good posts on the potential benefits of sprint… wish I had them bookmarked. But “potential” is a key word.
> > >
> > > 343 hasnt used the mechanic to its fullest. And cant seem to generate maps that complement the ability. Rather they compensate. I think there is more to why h4 and h5 are not top quality halo games, and it has less to do with sprint (Which manages fine in a number of games across the fps and 3rdPS genre) and more to with 343.
> >
> >
> > I’ll agree that other games use sprint and they are fine.
> > In my opinion, sprint works well for twitch shooters. For arena shooters, sprint isn’t required and makes balance very difficult.
> >
> > I was watching a youtube video of Ghandi (A halo 2/3 pro) and he gave his first impressions of Halo 5. His thought on sprint was that it wasn’t bad, but he thought it would be better if your movement speed changed based off which gun you held. For example, you would move a little faster with single handed weapons and have a standard base speed for two handed and power weapons.
>
>
> I don’t understand why there has to be a change in movement speed though. Why do we need needless change? I get that people think that past Halo games are slow. But Halo 2 usually isn’t what people think of, it’s usually 3 and Reach. Why don’t we use Halo 2 as the base for the game, increase base movement speed a little bit, and open up the field of view? That would make the game feel very fast, without having to completely change the balance and design of the maps and sandbox.
That would be fine too
Sprint or “Toggled movement increase” whether it’s a perk (no…no perks) or default for all spartans - is what needs to be removed in my opinion.
If they have slightly different base movement speeds for off hand weapons to give them a tactical advantage, I think that might play okay. This would need to be tested.
I know there is a group of people that play “Classic style” Halo Customs. We should get some youtube videos together showcasing why this style isn’t slow/boring, but leads to a more tactical and intense shooting experience