The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
7882

> 2535473635314008;7881:
> Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
>
> This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
>
> I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.

and that’s what happened with halo duty 4 wasn’t cod enough so half its playlist left when blacktops 3 came

7883

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> > > > Having sprint in a Halo game doesn’t ruin Halo. Just because a mechanic got added into the game doesn’t mean it changes what is Halo. Really, sprint is a nice feature to have. Yeah, I don’t use it constantly, but I use it when I feel the need for it. Really, you should be thinking about how 343 is trying to add newer things to Halo to make a great game even better. Yes, sometimes they’re not exactly on point with some features, but that’s why our feedback is important. If you seriously feel like a small mechanic like sprint breaks a games, what about something like assassinations? Or some of the other mechanics that was introduced in Halo: Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5?
> > >
> > >
> > > I was cool with ninjas, they took more skill than holding melee and grappling your opponent when they were out of melee range. The animation for assassinations takes too long, I have them turned off in Halo 5. Halo 4 was trying to be CoD, and–did you even read anything in this thread? I don’t think that you even need to answer that.
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I did read the thread. A lot of it actually. All I was saying was a game mechanic like sprint doesn’t ruin a game and added the thing in about assassinations because it wasn’t always in Halo. By the way, tell me how Halo was trying to be like Call of Duty. I’m real interested in that one.
>
>
> When the game is designed around a game mechanic like sprint, and that mechanic doesn’t really add anything to the gameplay, then yes, it has ruined Halo. In a twitch shooter, it makes sense, but with Halo’s TTK, it just bogs down the gameplay. Assassinations were a cool idea, but they also slowed the gameplay down.
>
> CoD has:
>
> Limited sprint
> Loadouts
> Killstreaks
>
> Halo 4 had:
>
> Limited sprint
> Loadouts
> Killstreaks
>
> Explain how Halo 4 wasn’t CoD. TTK, weapons, and map design are pretty much the only real differences. And vehicles, I suppose, but yeah, it sure wasn’t a Halo game.

So because a game has limited sprint, kill streaks, and loadouts, it makes a clone of another game, right?

I guess that would mean Battlefield is just Call of Duty because it as all the things you described. Next you’ll tell me Saints Row is a clone of Grand Theft Auto because you can steal a car. Now, when 343 copies a call of duty story, maybe then I’ll say Halo was trying to Call of Duty, but Halo hasn’t done that yet.

7884

Why would you not want sprint?

7885

> 2535473635314008;7875:
> Not quite. Many want the same movement speed and mechanics exactly the same as halo 1-3.

My memory might be off, but I can’t remember having seen this ever before. “Remove sprint” has always gone hand in hand with “and increase base movement speed”.

> 2535473635314008;7875:
> You may not but I can go through this thread and find many that want all Spartan abilities and Sprint removed.

Again, I’ve only seen people want sprint and spartan charge removed, with some people being against clamber and/or ADS, and some select few against ground pound. I don’t recall anybody asking for thrust to be removed, and most (if not all) of the contributions are fine with at least one of the aforementioned mechanics. (Even if not the same one. Some people prefer GP to ADS, some people the other way around, and so forth.)

EDIT: Not to mention the people who suggested other mechanics to be added to Halo, that weren’t in CE-2-3, such as double jump, going prone or vertical thrust. I really don’t know where this notion comes from, that people want the exact same mechanics as in the original trilogy, because I’ve never seen these suggestions/demands. Literally. Not even once.

7886

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> > > > 2533274924510176;7796:
> > > > > 2533274816931642;7793:
> > > > > > 2533274924510176;7790:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;7699:
> > > > > > > > 2533274924510176;7695:
> > > > > > > > As a Halo Veteran, i don’t mind the sprint. Halo has to evolve, ladies and gentlemen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So any and all change is automatically good?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Within reason.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What reason was there to add sprint to Halo?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I meant, it can’t be something ridiculous, like loadouts. Lookin’ at you Halo 4. I think sprint is the meta for FPS right now, along with microtransactions. Halo needs to stay fresh. You don’t like sprint, assassinations? Ok. That’s fine. Don’t use it. The Halo Community used to be accepting of these kind of opinions. Lets try and keep it that way.
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually advanced movement is the “meta” for FPS right now, but you don’t see Battlefield going and making a game like COD or Titanfall. Just saying. Staying fresh when sprint has been in the game for 6 years. Such argument, much impressive, very FPS.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. I know it’s been in Halo for 6 years. Congrats.
>
>
> Then why do you bring up that Halo needs to evolve? It is kind of redundant since Halo hasn’t evolved in regards to sprint in 6 years. I mean unless that has been your only argument for 6 years and probably will be for the next 4.

Chill out bud, its not my only argument. No need for assumptions here. I just simply meant Sprint has been a controversy since Reach, and IMO that’s when Halo started to change for better or worse.

7887

> 2535473635314008;7881:
> Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
>
> This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
>
> I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.

Halo 5 moves like Call of Duty.

7888

> 2533274816931642;7873:
> > 2533274795123910;7871:
> > > 2535473635314008;7869:
> > > I think were at the point where the golden triangle cannot be a 100 % be all and end all rule to what makes halo. The game does need to evolve out of this constricting box. The devs who created the triangle won’t even stay within its confines any longer. It’s not fair to ask 343 to forgo their creativity and do exactly as the previous devs did.
> >
> >
> > Let’s say we take a healthy approach to the Triangle, not the over-exaggerated one, and still keep to it.
> > Our limitations force us to be creative.
> >
> > Here are some examples of things.
> >
> > I don’t think the i343 game designers are tapping their creativity glands as much as they’re tapping their mimicking glands.
>
>
> Dude, that is the truth.
>
> Welcome to being a human, m i rite?

Actually I’d say that goes for any animal in the whole universe.

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> > > > 2535426262519166;7847:
> > > > > 2533274922666376;7841:
> > > > > Sprint affects SOOOO much more than movement speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Quicker movement speed means maps have to be stretched out in order to compensate on the TTK’s…This results in poor map quality in my opinion.
> > > > > - This results in fairly bland map design and maps in general being much larger. I’ve yet to see maps that compare to Construct, The Pit and Guardian.
> > > > > - If you test it out, WALKING the length of a relatively small “pre-sprint” map equates to the same time to SPRINT the length of its equivalent. You do not cross a map any quicker than the Halo’s without sprint.
> > > > > - Sprint means that TTK’s have had to be reduced slightly in order to kill players crossing open areas (in addition to slightly increased AA).
> > > > > - It actually slows down gameplay as you’re not sprinting all of the time…it can become a game of “who sees who first” depending if someone is sprinting blind.
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone has specific details such as the above, arguing for how sprint BENEFITS gameplay, please feel free to get into a civilised discussion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > EMMURSION
>
>
> An example of an awkward teleporter is headlong. There is no reason for it in the original. Its out of place in the city setting. A man cannon is likewise not appropriate thematically, hence the remake using an engine of a crashed vehicle. you can only get so far with this kind of stuff before you really start limiting the kinds of large maps and spaces you can create and still feel natural.

This reminds me of people who think the pistol should be weaker and a sidearm, because of how it looks.

> 2535473635314008;7874:
> > 2533274795123910;7871:
> > > 2535473635314008;7869:
> > >
>
>
> I read through your list, you’ve got some ideas I don’t like, but some I think would be very solid.
>
> I was a big fan of the old arena shooters from the nineties. Some of your ideas would bring halo a little closer to that genre that everyone else is getting away from.
>
> I especially like the unreal Tournamnet influence on the promethian weapons. Like a mutator. Pick up ammo as you go.
>
> Health pack pickups again would be cool. But I would keep regenerative shields, I’m pretty sure you meant to keep this as well.
>
> Portals instead of teleporters. Big win. Gamers are way to campy and cheap now. A teleporter was very often a cheap death. I would love if then portal showed a arial view of the room you’re entering.

I appreciate the feedback, and I’m not asking you to like everything.
I personally would like that, at least tested, and yes, shields would be kept of course.

However the point this time was not to show what I’d like, it was to show quite a few areas of untapped potential in ideas that are not in the “modernisation” or “mimicking” range.

7889

> 2533274855279867;7879:
> > 2535426262519166;7850:
> > > 2533274855279867;7848:
> > > > 2535426262519166;7847:
> > > > > 2533274922666376;7841:
> > > > > Sprint affects SOOOO much more than movement speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Quicker movement speed means maps have to be stretched out in order to compensate on the TTK’s…This results in poor map quality in my opinion.
> > > > > - This results in fairly bland map design and maps in general being much larger. I’ve yet to see maps that compare to Construct, The Pit and Guardian.
> > > > > - If you test it out, WALKING the length of a relatively small “pre-sprint” map equates to the same time to SPRINT the length of its equivalent. You do not cross a map any quicker than the Halo’s without sprint.
> > > > > - Sprint means that TTK’s have had to be reduced slightly in order to kill players crossing open areas (in addition to slightly increased AA).
> > > > > - It actually slows down gameplay as you’re not sprinting all of the time…it can become a game of “who sees who first” depending if someone is sprinting blind.
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone has specific details such as the above, arguing for how sprint BENEFITS gameplay, please feel free to get into a civilised discussion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > EMMURSION
> > >
> > >
> > > Thats a big one… But larger maps are also a benefit. You can have larger, grander maps that can handle more players without having to resort to gimmicky teleporters or vehicles, or the awkward man cannons- these don’t fit into every setting or always make sense.
> > >
> > > Bland design isnt sprint’s fault, its 343.
> >
> >
> > No, it is sprints fault.
> >
> > I’ve played sprintless customs on BTB maps in this game and it is wonderful.
>
>
> Your anecdotal experience doesnt change the facts.

Your anecdotal, personal experiences are no more facts than mine are.

7890

> 2535473635314008;7881:
> Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?

I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.

7891

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> > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I fully agree. Don’t like sprint? Don’t sprint, fine by me, your just an easier target. I personally believe sprint was one of the few things that has improved what little needed to be improved about halo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you believe that the map design has improved? Would you mind explaining your reasons as to why it has or has not?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for asking a good question. My answer is that, for the most part, the new map designs are focused on allowing players to run, jump, and clamber in fast pace games. This allows a whole new way to strategize your fighting and teamwork. I believe that the new designs are good, but if there was no sprint or clamber it would kind of be pointless in some areas.
> >
> >
> > No problem, thank you for answering it. I disagree with you, I think that Halo 5 has a slower pace than classic Halo. Speed is an illusion in H5, it takes just as much time to sprint to where you could have ran in a classic Halo map. This means that you have to sprint, or else you’ll be at a major disadvantage. In other words, sprint hasn’t improved Halo, unless you think that a slower pace was what it needed. As for sprint-jumps, what if you get shot right before you jump?
> >
> > Would you mind answering another question? How does sprint and clamber enable you to use new strategies?
>
>
> You brought up some good points and I understand where you are coming from with them. To answer your new question, let’s say your playing on a map that has lots of areas that would allow you to attack your enemys from above. Let’s also say these ledges are slightly high than you regular jump, now you have to either run and jump or clamber up on it. Another instance would be trying to run from an enemy or towards them while under fire. Sprinting obviously would allow you to get there faster but with clamber you can clamber onto obstacles that are higher than you can jump. At this point jumping and boosting forward would allow an even greater advantage. I hope I answered your question if not let me know and I can try to elaborate more.

Right, it’s not that we hate sprint, we just don’t like how Halo 5 was literally designed around it. I’ll get to responding to the rest after I leave a list of clips:

Halo 3 Avalanche (Sidewinder remake)
Sniper Nest
Sniper Nest 9,000
Sniper Nest 9,001

Halo 3 Valhalla
Sniper Nest
Sniper Nest 2
Sniper Nest 3
Can you do this on Viking?
What about this?

Halo 3 Narrows
Who needs clamber?
Hidey Hole
Hidey Hole 9,000
Hidey Hole 9,001

Halo 3 Last Resort (Zanzibar remake)
Sniper Yard to Top Wall
Beach Gate to Top Shotgun
Top Tower to Left Turret
Sniper Nest
Bottom Tower to Left Turret
Sniper to Top Triangle
Top Camo to Top Beach Gate

Halo 3 High Ground
Sniper Nest
Rocket[redacted]!

Halo 3 Rat’s Nest
Grav Lifted Sniper Nest
Bottom Mid to Top Mid
Who needs clamber? 2

Halo 3 Construct
Hidey Hole
Sniper Nest

Halo 3 Epitaph
Hidey Hole

Halo 3 Ghost Town
Who needs clamber? 3

Halo 3 Isolation
Bottom Mid to Top Mid

Halo 3 The Pit
Turret to Top Base

Halo 3 Snowbound
Who needs clamber? 4

Halo 3 Cold Storage (Chillout remake)
Hidey Hole 9,000
Hidey hole 9,001

Halo 3 Guardian
Bottom Mid to Top Mid Ceiling
Top Mid to Top Mid Ceiling

Halo 3 Blackout (Lockout remake)
Top Tower to Top Sniper
Top Mid to Bottom Tower
Top Sniper to Sword
Library to Bottom Sniper

Bonus Halo 3 Original Forge Map
Who else misses Spike Grenades?
Can someone please explain what just happened?

Many of those clips demonstrate how the movement in Halo 3 was entirely adequate for gaining a height advantage in a lot of situations. There are a lot more jumps than the ones that I linked, dozens of which are quite practical. Speaking of practicality, going from basement ramp to flag on Viking requires a sprint-jump, which has gotten me killed because I wasn’t able to shoot first. A crouch-jump used to do the trick just fine on Valhalla. Momentum and slide-jumps were what clamber and sprint-jumps are now.

The map design is different because, as I said, the maps are scaled to sprint. So, often times what would require clamber in Halo 5, would’ve only required a precise skill jump in classic Halo. Try crouch-jumping from Top Base to Top Mid on Truth. Clamber has the same problem as sprint: it leaves you vulnerable for a short period of time. Thrust presents its own problems in that it undermines the effectiveness of grenades. It all absolutely clashes with classic Halo gameplay.

As for clamber making up for being slowed down right before attempting a sprint-jump: it can’t always compensate, even with a thrust.

Now, for elaboration, do you think that Halo 5 has done a better job with vertical movement than classic Halo titles have?

7892

> 2535426262519166;7890:
> > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
>
>
> Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
>
> I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.

Need to fix the Blops to BOIII

7893

> 2535409489305717;7892:
> > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> >
> >
> > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> >
> > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
>
>
> Need to fix the Blops to BOIII

No. I don’t.

What a silly post.

7894

> 2535426262519166;7890:
> > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
>
>
> Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
>
> I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.

Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.

Still don’t.

Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.

And please, no more triangles.

7895

> 2535473635314008;7894:
> > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> >
> >
> > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> >
> > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
>
>
> Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
>
> Still don’t.
>
> Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
>
> And please, no more triangles.

H5 has
sprint
slide
clamber
Spartan charge
ground pound
ADS

BLOPS3/AW has
Sprint
slide
clamber
Super punch
ground pound
ADS

Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same

Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally

and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox

7896

> 2533274832130936;7895:
> > 2535473635314008;7894:
> > > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> > >
> > > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
> >
> >
> > Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
> >
> > Still don’t.
> >
> > Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
> >
> > And please, no more triangles.
>
>
> H5 has
> sprint
> slide
> clamber
> Spartan charge
> ground pound
> ADS
>
> BLOPS3/AW has
> Sprint
> slide
> clamber
> Super punch
> ground pound
> ADS
>
> Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same
>
> Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
> So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally
>
> and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox

I’m not going to spare you the equal starts and map control bs. Because equal starts map control and TTK has always been what separates halo form cod. It still does today, and as a result the games play drasticaly different. It’s the reason I love halo 5 and didn’t really ever find myself able to enjoy halo 4 arena.

7897

every one of my friends who play cod hate halo 5 they dislike halo in general, why is that? They like battlefield, titanfall and cod. All of these games play somewhat similar. Halo 5 when grouped in together with these games looks like a bit of an oddball. Because it is compared to twitch shooters.

7898

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> > 2533274832130936;7895:
> > > 2535473635314008;7894:
> > > > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> > > >
> > > > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
> > >
> > > Still don’t.
> > >
> > > Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
> > >
> > > And please, no more triangles.
> >
> >
> > H5 has
> > sprint
> > slide
> > clamber
> > Spartan charge
> > ground pound
> > ADS
> >
> > BLOPS3/AW has
> > Sprint
> > slide
> > clamber
> > Super punch
> > ground pound
> > ADS
> >
> > Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same
> >
> > Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
> > So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally
> >
> > and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox
>
>
> I’m not going to spare you the equal starts and map control bs. Because equal starts map control and TTK has always been what separates halo form cod. It still does today, and as a result the games play drasticaly different. It’s the reason I love halo 5 and didn’t really ever find myself able to enjoy halo 4 arena.

Again as I said equal starts and map control are ideas and elements of the game not core game play mechanics that alter the way the game is played
also TTKs shave gotten drastically shorter almost matching COD TTKs when you consider the SMG has a .94 second TTK when you land headshots
Oh yeah, that’s another thing H5 has in common with COD
headshot multipliers on automatic weapons (yes I know CEs plasma rifle had HS modifiers as well)

Things like sprint Spartan charge clamber ADS etc etc are CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS that fundamentally change the way the game is played sure you may like the changes, but it has CHANGED so if something that was halo in terms of game mechanics has CHANGED which you admit it has and you like the change, then it is no longer what made halo, halo, because…that’s right you guessed it it CHANGED
If you think H5 plays like halo, then maybe you missed out on older halos

And judging from the 26,000 player population less than a year later (mods please note I’m not making this into a population thread just trying to use numbers to back up my point)
you would be in the minority of the people who liked the changes
if 5 million people did in fact buy this game (I don’t believe that by the way)
where is everyone?
they’ve gone, left…never to return
if 5 million people bought this game and the population is approx 26,000 that means that approx 4.5 million people bought the game, played the game, and left
and while there are a lot of different reasons why this would have happened it would be doing halo a disservice to not even so much as entertain the idea that simply put, players do not like 343s version of halo

You didn’t find H4s arena enjoyable because it was utter garbage, H5s might be a bit better but it pales in comparison to H2, H3 and even H:R

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> > > 2533274832130936;7895:
> > > > 2535473635314008;7894:
> > > > > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > > > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > > > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > > > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > > > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
> > > >
> > > > Still don’t.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
> > > >
> > > > And please, no more triangles.
> > >
> > >
> > > H5 has
> > > sprint
> > > slide
> > > clamber
> > > Spartan charge
> > > ground pound
> > > ADS
> > >
> > > BLOPS3/AW has
> > > Sprint
> > > slide
> > > clamber
> > > Super punch
> > > ground pound
> > > ADS
> > >
> > > Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same
> > >
> > > Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
> > > So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally
> > >
> > > and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox
> >
> >
> > I’m not going to spare you the equal starts and map control bs. Because equal starts map control and TTK has always been what separates halo form cod. It still does today, and as a result the games play drasticaly different. It’s the reason I love halo 5 and didn’t really ever find myself able to enjoy halo 4 arena.
>
>
> Again as I said equal starts and map control are ideas and elements of the game not core game play mechanics that alter the way the game is played
> also TTKs shave gotten drastically shorter almost matching COD TTKs when you consider the SMG has a .94 second TTK when you land headshots
> Oh yeah, that’s another thing H5 has in common with COD
> headshot multipliers on automatic weapons (yes I know CEs plasma rifle had HS modifiers as well)
>
> Things like sprint Spartan charge clamber ADS etc etc are CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS that fundamentally change the way the game is played sure you may like the changes, but it has CHANGED so if something that was halo in terms of game mechanics has CHANGED which you admit it has and you like the change, then it is no longer what made halo, halo, because…that’s right you guessed it it CHANGED
> If you think H5 plays like halo, then maybe you missed out on older halos
>
> And judging from the 26,000 player population less than a year later (mods please note I’m not making this into a population thread just trying to use numbers to back up my point)
> you would be in the minority of the people who liked the changes
> if 5 million people did in face buy this game (I don’t believe that by the way)
> where is everyone?
> they’ve gone, left…never to return
> if 5 million people bought this game and the population is approx 26,000 that means that approx 4.5 million people bought the game, played the game, and left
> and while there are a lot of different reasons why this would have happened it would be doing halo a disservice to not even so much as entertain the idea that simply put, players do not like 343s version of halo
>
> You didn’t find H4s arena enjoyable because it was utter garbage, H5s might be a bit better but it pales in comparison to H2, H3 and even H:R

I still think you’re running fast and loose with the COD comparisons. If we look at the swat playlist. Where we lower the TTK, take out map control and power weapon pickups then yes, I would agree, the swat playlist plays a lot like cod would in a sandbox shooter. But then again swat always has in every halo.

Map control, TTK equal starts affect the core gameplay so much more than slide and ground pound ever could.

As as for the population. All we have are guesses. I do know halo 5 seems to hover around the same numbers as battlefield 4. So how many millions of copies did battlefield 4 sell? I really don’t even know where to find these numbers. I do know that both games have sold millions of copies and now sit at less than 100000 on at a time. Most games do these days.

Also not that it really matters. But even with th hours I’ve put in on halo 5 I don’t think I will ever match my time put on on halo 2. Halo 2 and CE I played constantly. For years. I did miss most of halo 3 and reach though due to life reasons.

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> 2535473635314008;7899:
> > 2533274832130936;7898:
> > > 2535473635314008;7896:
> > > > 2533274832130936;7895:
> > > > > 2535473635314008;7894:
> > > > > > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > > > > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > > > > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > > > > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > > > > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Still don’t.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
> > > > >
> > > > > And please, no more triangles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > H5 has
> > > > sprint
> > > > slide
> > > > clamber
> > > > Spartan charge
> > > > ground pound
> > > > ADS
> > > >
> > > > BLOPS3/AW has
> > > > Sprint
> > > > slide
> > > > clamber
> > > > Super punch
> > > > ground pound
> > > > ADS
> > > >
> > > > Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same
> > > >
> > > > Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
> > > > So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally
> > > >
> > > > and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not going to spare you the equal starts and map control bs. Because equal starts map control and TTK has always been what separates halo form cod. It still does today, and as a result the games play drasticaly different. It’s the reason I love halo 5 and didn’t really ever find myself able to enjoy halo 4 arena.
> >
> >
> > Again as I said equal starts and map control are ideas and elements of the game not core game play mechanics that alter the way the game is played
> > also TTKs shave gotten drastically shorter almost matching COD TTKs when you consider the SMG has a .94 second TTK when you land headshots
> > Oh yeah, that’s another thing H5 has in common with COD
> > headshot multipliers on automatic weapons (yes I know CEs plasma rifle had HS modifiers as well)
> >
> > Things like sprint Spartan charge clamber ADS etc etc are CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS that fundamentally change the way the game is played sure you may like the changes, but it has CHANGED so if something that was halo in terms of game mechanics has CHANGED which you admit it has and you like the change, then it is no longer what made halo, halo, because…that’s right you guessed it it CHANGED
> > If you think H5 plays like halo, then maybe you missed out on older halos
> >
> > And judging from the 26,000 player population less than a year later (mods please note I’m not making this into a population thread just trying to use numbers to back up my point)
> > you would be in the minority of the people who liked the changes
> > if 5 million people did in face buy this game (I don’t believe that by the way)
> > where is everyone?
> > they’ve gone, left…never to return
> > if 5 million people bought this game and the population is approx 26,000 that means that approx 4.5 million people bought the game, played the game, and left
> > and while there are a lot of different reasons why this would have happened it would be doing halo a disservice to not even so much as entertain the idea that simply put, players do not like 343s version of halo
> >
> > You didn’t find H4s arena enjoyable because it was utter garbage, H5s might be a bit better but it pales in comparison to H2, H3 and even H:R
>
>
> I still think you’re running fast and loose with the COD comparisons. If we look at the swat playlist. Where we lower the TTK, take out map control and power weapon pickups then yes, I would agree, the swat playlist plays a lot like cod would in a sandbox shooter. But then again swat always has in every halo.
>
> Map control, TTK equal starts affect the core gameplay so much more than slide and ground pound ever could.
>
> As as for the population. All we have are guesses. I do know halo 5 seems to hover around the same numbers as battlefield 4. So how many millions of copies did battlefield 4 sell? I really don’t even know where to find these numbers. I do know that both games have sold millions of copies and now sit at less than 100000 on at a time. Most games do these days.

The main difference when thinking about population in comparison with battlefield 4 is thatbattlefield 4 is three years old…for it to have more players than a game less than a year old means something and it isn’t just that “halo isn’t as popular as it used to be” because it sole 5 million copies supposedly

I don’t agree, things like map control and equal starts while I agree are very important and effect the way the game is played, do not impact the game as much as things like sprint which you confidently left out and Spartan charge etc etc effect the way the game is played on a much deeper level and it starts at map design to acomidate these features and snowballs from there into the current mess we have where players are rewarded for sprinting around the map like idiots because of stupid crap like Spartan charge

because se of things like sprint, maps have gotten bigger, base movement speed has gotten slower resulting in sluggish strafing bullet magnetism has been ramped up to balance out the increase in movement speed while sprinting
enemies are able to escape on the larger yet somehow more cluttered maps

now your response will undoubtably be “well then don’t sprint”
That’s not possible in the game because if you’re not sprinting you’re at a disadvantage because of things like Spartan charge and slide

urgh
i really don’t know why I keep getting into these kinds of discussions
they lead no where
Myself and others break down why these things are bad for halo bit by bit give reasons/opinions why and all we get back is
“I like the changes”

Im not directing that frustration at you personally nofunnyideas, it’s just a sentiment that’s been building for a while,
i think I just need to stay out of these debates

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> > 2533274832130936;7898:
> > > 2535473635314008;7896:
> > > > 2533274832130936;7895:
> > > > > 2535473635314008;7894:
> > > > > > 2535426262519166;7890:
> > > > > > > 2535473635314008;7881:
> > > > > > > Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.
> > > > > > > This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.
> > > > > > > I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you ever stop to think that maybe because you only played Blops 3 for a day that your opinion on how similarly, or dissimilarity it plays compared to H5 is uninformed and useless?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve played a lot of H5, and COD AW, and Blops 3. The three games play too close together imo. They share a lot and I would say H5 is just as close to AW as Blops 3 is or vice versa. All three essentially form a triangle of similarity.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. Didn’t come to that conclusion at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Still don’t.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 5 is not cod. It may have changed from halo 1-3 but it’s closer to those games than any other FPS out right now, if cod played anything like halo 5 you would never hear a peep from me. I would be playing cod. I don’t need to play the game for a month to know what’s up.
> > > > >
> > > > > And please, no more triangles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > H5 has
> > > > sprint
> > > > slide
> > > > clamber
> > > > Spartan charge
> > > > ground pound
> > > > ADS
> > > >
> > > > BLOPS3/AW has
> > > > Sprint
> > > > slide
> > > > clamber
> > > > Super punch
> > > > ground pound
> > > > ADS
> > > >
> > > > Unsure how the games can play “differently” when the core game mechanics are the same
> > > >
> > > > Halo was been injected with mechanics that work in other games like battlefield and COD in an attempt to steal those players from those franchises, this absolutely can not be disputed
> > > > So it would only lend to reason that the introduction of said forigen mechanics into halo has fundamentally changed the way halo is played making it more of what has been added in and less of what it was originally
> > > >
> > > > and please spare me the equal starts and map control BS because those are game elements that can be changed at any time and not core game mechanics that shape the way the game is played and can not be changed without further disrupting the sandbox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As as for the population. All we have are guesses. I do know halo 5 seems to hover around the same numbers as battlefield 4. So how many millions of copies did battlefield 4 sell? I really don’t even know where to find these numbers. I do know that both games have sold millions of copies and now sit at less than 100000 on at a time. Most games do these days.

educated guesses…its more like 20,000…sales dont reflect population…halo 4 is a good example…and even if halo 5 has higher numbers then that the fact that skill based matchmaking exists even in social playlists alot of that population is cut off…for example there are playlists in halo 5 where i literally cant find a game between 1am and 8am…unacceptable for a huge triple A title like halo