The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > > > > No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Cool reason why.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn’t 2012 anymore.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don’t know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don’t think it’ll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A way that isn’t in line with what Halo was, yes. I’d be fine with this gameplay in a different title by 343i.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that i think about it, CSGO does have two speeds, one walking to reduce noise, and the other running normally. Look at it this way, you don’t have to play newer halos if you don’t like them that much, but the question remains if this is progressive or is this unnecessary. I am shifting towards progressive but not to sure. All i know is that it does not hamper gameplay, and makes it easier and more strategic at times.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > CS:GO had sprint removed due to community outcry. Classic Halo had crouch-walking to reduce noise. How does it not hamper gameplay? How does it make it easier, or more strategic?
> > >
> > >
> > > It gives more options for the player on how to act. Theoretically, the player gets one more option of mobility, or flight rather than fight, with an expensive weapon. It also gives the defending player a chance against some weapons like the shotgun, provided there is enough room, and we are not even getting into the campaign and casual gaming. Even if CSGO had sprint, it still doesn’t change that it also has two movement speeds at the moment.
> >
> >
> > So, having your movement locked to forward with a few degrees of left or right movement gives you more options on how to act? Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices? The only real option that sprint provides is to run away. Thrusting gives someone more of a chance against a shotgun than sprint. The campaign is irrelevant because it can be designed to not include sprint. Casual gaming? I never needed sprint in classic BTB. So does classic Halo, in fact it has three: crouch-walking, walking, and running.
>
>
> I am not even sure if you are serious anymore. You know why? Cause then it would just be op. This is compensating for the possibility that a guy can just rush in, and take everyone out, with hem having less chance to hit him, if he does it right. Especially with a shotgun, it is already quite op, but if the guy could fire while running? That is just retarded. All i was saying that the sprint ability is an option in itself, to be used at YOUR discretion, meaning you don’t have to.

You can’t fire while thrusting, so you get the advantage on someone who is by taking the first shot. Using thrust, you can withdraw out of someone’s range much more easily (and in more directions) than you can by sprinting. Anyway, I never said anything about being able to fire while sprinting, I think that sprint is an unnecessary game mechanic altogether. Finally, sprint isn’t an option in Halo 5, it’s a requirement, because the maps are scaled to it. You are at a severe disadvantage if you never sprint. That’s why this thread exists.

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> Why don’t we have a set of arena playlists that are based around old halos and similar to them, Call of Duty has normal modes and Hardcore modes, so we can have our Normal sprint modes and then Classic Modes, then people can decide which is better as well as which is most competitive and play which one they like, that makes it so the 50% of the community who doesn’t want sprint can play happily and the 50% who do want it can be happy too, it is a little bit splitting to the player base, but if we are already missing that half of the player base who doesn’t play the game Bc they want sprint removed then it won’t hurt to add it in the first place… Problem solved now we don’t have to argue anymore.

Actually, 343i would need to balance the weapons for both modes of play. They would also need to design maps for both types of gameplay. Why don’t they just throw Halo 5’s gameplay into a new title, and revert Halo back to its roots and build upon them?

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> > Why don’t we have a set of arena playlists that are based around old halos and similar to them, Call of Duty has normal modes and Hardcore modes, so we can have our Normal sprint modes and then Classic Modes, then people can decide which is better as well as which is most competitive and play which one they like, that makes it so the 50% of the community who doesn’t want sprint can play happily and the 50% who do want it can be happy too, it is a little bit splitting to the player base, but if we are already missing that half of the player base who doesn’t play the game Bc they want sprint removed then it won’t hurt to add it in the first place… Problem solved now we don’t have to argue anymore.
>
>
> Actually, 343i would need to balance the weapons for both modes of play. They would also need to design maps for both types of gameplay. Why don’t they just throw Halo 5’s gameplay into a new title, and revert Halo back to its roots and build upon them?

I think having two different gameplay style is bad for the franchise. Even though 343 makes classic playlist completely from scratch, it will be bad for Halo. It will be bring identity crisis.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Cool reason why.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn’t 2012 anymore.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don’t know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don’t think it’ll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A way that isn’t in line with what Halo was, yes. I’d be fine with this gameplay in a different title by 343i.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that i think about it, CSGO does have two speeds, one walking to reduce noise, and the other running normally. Look at it this way, you don’t have to play newer halos if you don’t like them that much, but the question remains if this is progressive or is this unnecessary. I am shifting towards progressive but not to sure. All i know is that it does not hamper gameplay, and makes it easier and more strategic at times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > CS:GO had sprint removed due to community outcry. Classic Halo had crouch-walking to reduce noise. How does it not hamper gameplay? How does it make it easier, or more strategic?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It gives more options for the player on how to act. Theoretically, the player gets one more option of mobility, or flight rather than fight, with an expensive weapon. It also gives the defending player a chance against some weapons like the shotgun, provided there is enough room, and we are not even getting into the campaign and casual gaming. Even if CSGO had sprint, it still doesn’t change that it also has two movement speeds at the moment.
> > >
> > >
> > > So, having your movement locked to forward with a few degrees of left or right movement gives you more options on how to act? Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices? The only real option that sprint provides is to run away. Thrusting gives someone more of a chance against a shotgun than sprint. The campaign is irrelevant because it can be designed to not include sprint. Casual gaming? I never needed sprint in classic BTB. So does classic Halo, in fact it has three: crouch-walking, walking, and running.
> >
> >
> > I am not even sure if you are serious anymore. You know why? Cause then it would just be op. This is compensating for the possibility that a guy can just rush in, and take everyone out, with hem having less chance to hit him, if he does it right. Especially with a shotgun, it is already quite op, but if the guy could fire while running? That is just retarded. All i was saying that the sprint ability is an option in itself, to be used at YOUR discretion, meaning you don’t have to.
>
>
> You can’t fire while thrusting, so you get the advantage on someone who is by taking the first shot. Using thrust, you can withdraw out of someone’s range much more easily (and in more directions) than you can by sprinting. Anyway, I never said anything about being able to fire while sprinting, I think that sprint is an unnecessary game mechanic altogether. Finally, sprint isn’t an option in Halo 5, it’s a requirement, because the maps are scaled to it. You are at a severe disadvantage if you never sprint. That’s why this thread exists.

That is your choice to rush in instead of going more carefully. But that also depends if they hit that shot, and how close everything is relative to the defending.
Sprinting has a longer effect than thrusting. Also, the fact that you even mention the problem with directions points to you not fully understanding how sprint works. As i said to the other hater-guy, if you were even close to a decent player, you would know how to sprint, stop to take a shot or turn, then move on. Only ppl with the worst reactions cannot do that, or if they had not tried, which is what i suspect.

“Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices?”
If you did not mean fire here, then what exactly did you mean?

I would personally say that maps like regret, are scaled in between sprinting and normal running, personally.
If you are at a severe disadvantage for not using sprint then that is your choice, as i said, to be used at your discretion. A failure of judgement is not 343i’s fault.

To conclude, i have no idea why this thread really exists, since it has deviated from it’s original goals, of providing your own opinions, to criticizing each other. To me, it seems that people like you are not fully appreciative of the work 343 put in the game, though it is imperfect. I personally think, they are literally the most generous Devs i have seen to present day. Which is why i will not be returning any responses to this, as i got tired of rebutting the same points over and over again.
Sianara, and have a nice day.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cool reason why.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn’t 2012 anymore.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don’t know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don’t think it’ll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A way that isn’t in line with what Halo was, yes. I’d be fine with this gameplay in a different title by 343i.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now that i think about it, CSGO does have two speeds, one walking to reduce noise, and the other running normally. Look at it this way, you don’t have to play newer halos if you don’t like them that much, but the question remains if this is progressive or is this unnecessary. I am shifting towards progressive but not to sure. All i know is that it does not hamper gameplay, and makes it easier and more strategic at times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CS:GO had sprint removed due to community outcry. Classic Halo had crouch-walking to reduce noise. How does it not hamper gameplay? How does it make it easier, or more strategic?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It gives more options for the player on how to act. Theoretically, the player gets one more option of mobility, or flight rather than fight, with an expensive weapon. It also gives the defending player a chance against some weapons like the shotgun, provided there is enough room, and we are not even getting into the campaign and casual gaming. Even if CSGO had sprint, it still doesn’t change that it also has two movement speeds at the moment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, having your movement locked to forward with a few degrees of left or right movement gives you more options on how to act? Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices? The only real option that sprint provides is to run away. Thrusting gives someone more of a chance against a shotgun than sprint. The campaign is irrelevant because it can be designed to not include sprint. Casual gaming? I never needed sprint in classic BTB. So does classic Halo, in fact it has three: crouch-walking, walking, and running.
>
>
> That is your choice to rush in instead of going more carefully. But that also depends if they hit that shot, and how close everything is relative to the defending.
> Sprinting has a longer effect than thrusting. Also, the fact that you even mention the problem with directions points to you not fully understanding how sprint works. As i said to the other hater-guy, if you were even close to a decent player, you would know how to sprint, stop to take a shot or turn, then move on. Only ppl with the worst reactions cannot do that, or if they had not tried, which is what i suspect.
>
> “Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices?”
> If you did not mean fire here, then what exactly did you mean?
>
> I would personally say that maps like regret, are scaled in between sprinting and normal running, personally.
> If you are at a severe disadvantage for not using sprint then that is your choice, as i said, to be used at your discretion. A failure of judgement is not 343i’s fault.
>
> To conclude, i have no idea why this thread really exists, since it has deviated from it’s original goals, of providing your own opinions, to criticizing each other. To me, it seems that people like you are not fully appreciative of the work 343 put in the game, though it is imperfect. I personally think, they are literally the most generous Devs i have seen to present day. Which is why i will not be returning any responses to this, as i got tired of rebutting the same points over and over again.
> Sianara, and have a nice day.

rebutting points by telling “haters” to not use a game mechanic and tell them they’re bad with sprint?

If you’re not going to return here, why are you asking questions?

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> > > > > > > > > Why not compromise and ask 343i to make modern and classic playlists. I’m sure 343i might consider it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why would the core Halo fanbase need to ask for such a thing? Does 343i just not care?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you think 343 does not care about the fanbase, then i don’t think you deserve a copy of this game. I don’t think it is possible to please you. Besides, calling yourself “Core Halo fanbase” does not make you it. Currently the opinions are split, and they cannot just go out and remove a core game mechanic just cause some ppl don’t like it. This means more bug fixing, more level redesign all sorts of stuff. Even if it was that bad, i don’t think i would go through that. It is their game like it or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fans are doing all the work for them. We’ve made classic settings and we’ve made maps for those settings. That’s all it takes to actually add a playlist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Though people are more realistic looking to Halo 6 for the removal of sprint so that the game can be built properly without it rather than removing it from Halo 5 which was built almost entirely around it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I wouldn’t call them fans, and i wouldn’t call this work either. They programmed these settings, in anticipation of such criticism. But i am against it being removed from future Halos. For one it will reduce strategic ability and skill within multiplayer. It gives more options of action as well as requiring more skill, to say snipe a running guy, if it required any from the start. This is not to mention the campaign, which has always been tedious at times in terms of mobility, for example, Two Betrayals, where to use up the full cache of weapons, like the rocket launcher and sniper rifle, you had to use a working ghost to travel to and from the shot down pelican.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s fine, you could be wrong if you so choose.
> > > >
> > > > More options doesn’t necessarily mean more depth, strategy, or skill. A lot of the better players in this game would agree. Sprint does a whole lot to help bad players and that’s all really. Everything sprint allows you to do can be done without it, except with more skill required. Wanna make it harder for someone to snipe you? Getting better at strafing. Using a good strafe is more skill based than pressing a button for an instant reward
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s quite arrogant, i would say, to say that first part, man.
> > >
> > > Didn’t you just prove that it compensates for less experienced players? I wouldn’t say more skill is required, rather than time in my previous example of Two Betrayals. Besides, the hit boxes in Halo 5 are a joke. Im not saying that that is bad, all i am saying is that they pretty much eliminate practical usefulness of strafe, but that is a discussion for another time. From experience on snipers’ arena games, it doesn’t matter if you miss, as long as it is in front of the guy it’ll still hit. I have actually thought of the possibility that the collision box expands slightly in Halo 5 during sprinting. Also the sniper is literally the autonoob of halo, were it not for shields. You also seem to have confused strategy, tactics and skill as well as in game depth. In tactics, sprinting is an effective short term solution for diversion, relocation, anything. Strategically, i will admit that it is somewhat lacking, as circumstances for it’s use are often unforeseen. On the skill front, it bridges a gap between new players and older more experienced fans. This concept is new and will require both parties to learn it in order to play the game properly. To me, it sounds like a lot of these ppl are just unwilling to learn a new mechanic. It gives both parties time to develop, albeit, that time has passed. In-game depth is what this feature excels at imo. It makes the game faster paced, dynamic, as well as more provocative to defending parties in a game. It also allows people to not be completely doomed by cqc weapons like the shotgun, if they are smart enough and there is enough room to maneuver.
> > > But you still haven’t even touched the rest of the game yet. All you did was mention how it depletes skill based multiplayer. In campaign it is undeniably useful, and i think that is why you haven’t mentioned campaign, cause there is no argument there. Same goes for firefight and like modes. In normal war zone, my fingers would be dead after a single game if i was to evade every sniper or long range vehicle by strafing. My point is, you haven’t mentioned the casual aspect of the game, probably cause there is no argument there for you as far as i can see.
> >
> >
> > When maps are scaled to sprint, and nobody is sprinting the entire time, then the gameplay cannot logically be happening at a faster pace. Furthermore, if you cannot fire while sprinting, then you cannot say that sprint is an offensive ability. As for campaign, there hasn’t been a good campaign since Halo CE, and adding sprint sure hasn’t fixed anything there. Campaign can be designed in a way that makes sprint irrelevant. I would have no problem with sprint being in just Warzone and Firefight.
>
>
> Maps are scaled somewhere in between sprint and normal i would say. It can be an offensive capability, cause most people learned how to stop, take the shot, and move on. It is not that hard at all. This is not the time or place to discuss halo campaigns, so i won’t cause it’ll stir up trouble. But sprint fixed some campaign aspects for me. AI are much smarter in the newer games, so a balance between mobility and defense can be the key in boss fights, like the ones with the warden. But i agree with you on the FF and war zone.

It takes the same amount of time to sprint across Truth as it did to run across Midship, so no, they’re definitely scaled to sprint. Sprint is a neutral ability: it can be used offensively, but it has many more defensive uses. If you could fire while sprinting, then it could be considered an offensive ability. If you have to stop in order to take a shot, then how is the gameplay faster? Think about it, you have to wait to shoot, in a First Person Shooter. Of course it isn’t hard, nobody is saying that it is, the argument is over whether or not it actually enhances Halo’s gameplay, and by extension, whether it is even necessary to begin with.

As for campaign, were you one of the people complaining about Two Betrayals? The One has more processing power than the two previous consoles combined, so campaign’s level design could be done really with, with or without sprint (AI could be smarter too, though I’ve had them passively allow me to shoot them to death in H5). As for the Warden, the only fight with him that was well designed was the second one. I had some pretty awesome dodges on The Breaking using thrust, but that fight was probably my worst experience in a Halo game, ever. And that’s going up against the last fight on Two Betrayals, solo Legendary. At least Halo CE didn’t sacrifice splitscreen for 60 FPS. By the way, mobility and defense were present in previous Halo titles.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > Why not compromise and ask 343i to make modern and classic playlists. I’m sure 343i might consider it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why would the core Halo fanbase need to ask for such a thing? Does 343i just not care?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you think 343 does not care about the fanbase, then i don’t think you deserve a copy of this game. I don’t think it is possible to please you. Besides, calling yourself “Core Halo fanbase” does not make you it. Currently the opinions are split, and they cannot just go out and remove a core game mechanic just cause some ppl don’t like it. This means more bug fixing, more level redesign all sorts of stuff. Even if it was that bad, i don’t think i would go through that. It is their game like it or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fans are doing all the work for them. We’ve made classic settings and we’ve made maps for those settings. That’s all it takes to actually add a playlist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Though people are more realistic looking to Halo 6 for the removal of sprint so that the game can be built properly without it rather than removing it from Halo 5 which was built almost entirely around it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I wouldn’t call them fans, and i wouldn’t call this work either. They programmed these settings, in anticipation of such criticism. But i am against it being removed from future Halos. For one it will reduce strategic ability and skill within multiplayer. It gives more options of action as well as requiring more skill, to say snipe a running guy, if it required any from the start. This is not to mention the campaign, which has always been tedious at times in terms of mobility, for example, Two Betrayals, where to use up the full cache of weapons, like the rocket launcher and sniper rifle, you had to use a working ghost to travel to and from the shot down pelican.
> >
> >
> > That first part was arrogant? No, what was arrogant was you thinking you can tell people who is and isn’t a fan and whether or not spending time and effort making settings and maps is work.
> >
> > There’s nothing about sprint that makes it more skilled based and/or strategy than strafing when it comes to dodging shots. Sprinting making things easier for worse players but it doesn’t help good players and at worst can only make it harder for them despite the lack of skill needed to used sprint. That’s the thing, “bridging the gap” only helps worse players because they’re the ones that benefit from it most. The decent players would’ve hit that shot anyway or they would’ve dodged that shot anyway, the only difference is that now it’s easier for the players who wouldn’t be able to do those things. Unless it’s equally beneficial to players of all skill levels, then it’s not a fair change. Strafing and regular map movement take much more thought and practice to use effectively. The skill ceiling is higher for those things. What you’re suggesting would be the same as saying tee-ball should be played in place of baseball because it “bridges the gap” by helping new players. No, because that doesn’t help the experienced players, they do fine without it, it only helps the less skilled players. Thinning the skill gap is not a good thing. Plus, sprint - in addition t a number of the other traversal related mechanics - does increase size of your hit box (by default, I believe, not just when you use the mechanic) and bullet magnetism is increased because it’s harder to shoot people since they’re moving faster, which becomes an even bigger problem when you’re not moving at those speeds. One of the big side effects of sprint is that the devs literally have to make things easier for you to compensate for it’s effects.
> >
> > You’ve still mentioned nothing sprint does that can’t be done with more thought and skill without it. Without sprint more skill and strategy is required to outshoot/ keep from being shot by your opponent, you would still have to think fast and maneuver in smart ways when up against CQC weapons and any sort of relocating or “diversions” can be accomplished by using thruster to get around quicker (or just using general map knowledge and skill jumps).
> >
> > I don’t care about it’s effects in Campaign because the Campaign is PvE. It’s different balancing and it personally doesn’t matter to me what they do with it over there since it’s not balanced for two teams, it’s balanced for one person/team.
>
>
> I would call that mistaken at most, if true. But at least i don’t, or at least did not intend to insult you, and I’m sorry if i did.
>
> 343 have programmed those settings, so that they can be used. Don’t tell me that “The community did all the work” cause you cannot simply modify code on Xbox. It takes slightly more than that.
> Im not sure you understand what bridging the gap really means. It is supposed to benefit mostly newer players. But from this it almost sounds like you are annoyed that you have trained to use strafing, when a new player can just sprint.
> I will say this for sure, however. It is quite ignorant to base your entire opinion over sprint’s apparent disadvantages in one area, while completely refusing to acknowledge anything in another, in this case, campaign. In the newer games, sprint was added to give the player to form a balance between mobility and defense, since the AI can just rush you while your shields are down. It isn’t as much about balance, though, as it is about traveling back and forth, for example, to use up all of the area’s supplies (Two fin betrayals).
> And you completely disregarded casual gaming.
> Answer me this; what is the point in learning and devoting your time to one game technique when you can just embed a function which gives the same results and possibly more? It isn’t like those that learned strafing will necessarily be better at this game, than casual players.
>
> I am not going to respond to any of your replies, from now on, cause not only is your argument kinda falling apart, but you just keep on repeating the same thing.

If your shields are down, then take cover. If you have a poor selection of cover, then be smarter about where you position yourself. I can think of very few instances in which classic Halo’s level design was what got me killed. I never needed to make more than one trip back when I was playing with someone on splitscreen. Completing the campaign, solo, on Legendary was a real achievement, it meant using every last bit of what was available to you. That was the point. It was Legendary. Halo 5 has the easiest Legendary campaign in the franchise–save for the final fight on The Breaking.

BTB was the epitome of casual gaming, especially when you had four people on one console. Like, wut!?

How does sprint “give the same results and possibly more” as/than well thought-out map design that encourages flow? Why shouldn’t somebody who spends time getting good at something be better than somebody who doesn’t even care about being good? You didn’t have to be good in BTB. You also don’t have to be good in Warzone. Why do casual gamers have to be good at Arena (in general)?

I’m not just relearning how to play the game, I am consciously fighting the instincts from the gameplay of previous titles. Not only do I have to learn new muscle memory, I have to try to forget old muscle memory. Do you see how this might be a problem and discourage some vets from playing?

As for your final statement, you must be a troll. You have to be, nobody is this dense.

7869

Here’s a question:

What if the alpha zombie holds the Keys to compromise on this debate?

Hear me out…

Infection in halo 5 is one of the best infections in the halo franchise ( opinion, not here to debate this). The reason I enjoy it so much is that for the first time being a zombie is quite fun. When I spawn and see that I’m the alpha zombie I smile because I know it’s going to be a fun game. In other halos I didn’t like Being infected at all.

I think a part of this is due to the zombies movement. They can traverse the map at a reasonable pace, the movement doesn’t feel dated like it does in the original 3 halos ( opinion, again) while not being capable of Sprint. I don’t care about Sprint, but a whole, a lot of our community does.

If halo arena played at the base movement speed and same jump mechanics as the zombies in infection would that be reasonable for both sides? Thruster would stay, it allows for an evade/close distance mechanic at the cost of offence that Sprint was implemented for while at the same time ridding the game of the most hated mechanic in Spartan charge. I don’t think Sprint really is a detriment to gameplay, but I will gladly get rid of it under the condition that Spartan charge goes with it. I still think Sprint should stay in warzone. But I don’t think the majority of the anti Sprint crowd are too concerned with warzone sprinting.

I think were at the point where the golden triangle cannot be a 100 % be all and end all rule to what makes halo. The game does need to evolve out of this constricting box. The devs who created the triangle won’t even stay within its confines any longer. It’s not fair to ask 343 to forgo their creativity and do exactly as the previous devs did.

Imo a movement speed like that of infection zombies while keeping the thruster allows for fast dynamic movement, and also eliminates some of the problems the anti Sprint crowd are concerned with.

If we want to ever get past this both sides need to come to a compromise. One side can’t say that anything that’s changed from halo 3 needs to be taken out of the game. The other can’t say the games evolution is critical on every new mechanic and ability. At the end of the day halo needs both new and old fans actively getting into games to be succesful.

Trying to play Devils advocate. Hasn’t work so far. We’re a very stubborn community. All I do is hope that one day a great new game unlike any previous halos is built that even the most stubborn fan of classic gameplay will come and play.

7870

> 2535473635314008;7869:
> One side can’t say that anything that’s changed from halo 3 needs to be taken out of the game.

FYI: Nobody ever said that. Ever.

Otherwise, your suggestion was basically the very same thing that has been asked for years by now.

7871

> 2535473635314008;7869:
> I think were at the point where the golden triangle cannot be a 100 % be all and end all rule to what makes halo. The game does need to evolve out of this constricting box. The devs who created the triangle won’t even stay within its confines any longer. It’s not fair to ask 343 to forgo their creativity and do exactly as the previous devs did.

Let’s say we take a healthy approach to the Triangle, not the over-exaggerated one, and still keep to it.
Our limitations force us to be creative.

Here are some examples of things.

I don’t think the i343 game designers are tapping their creativity glands as much as they’re tapping their mimicking glands.

7872

> 2533274986342659;7865:
> > 2533274816931642;7862:
> > > 2533274986342659;7856:
> > > I am not even sure if you are serious anymore. You know why? Cause then it would just be op. This is compensating for the possibility that a guy can just rush in, and take everyone out, with hem having less chance to hit him, if he does it right. Especially with a shotgun, it is already quite op, but if the guy could fire while running? That is just retarded. All i was saying that the sprint ability is an option in itself, to be used at YOUR discretion, meaning you don’t have to.
> >
> >
> > You can’t fire while thrusting, so you get the advantage on someone who is by taking the first shot. Using thrust, you can withdraw out of someone’s range much more easily (and in more directions) than you can by sprinting. Anyway, I never said anything about being able to fire while sprinting, I think that sprint is an unnecessary game mechanic altogether. Finally, sprint isn’t an option in Halo 5, it’s a requirement, because the maps are scaled to it. You are at a severe disadvantage if you never sprint. That’s why this thread exists.
>
>
> That is your choice to rush in instead of going more carefully. But that also depends if they hit that shot, and how close everything is relative to the defending.
> Sprinting has a longer effect than thrusting. Also, the fact that you even mention the problem with directions points to you not fully understanding how sprint works. As i said to the other hater-guy, if you were even close to a decent player, you would know how to sprint, stop to take a shot or turn, then move on. Only ppl with the worst reactions cannot do that, or if they had not tried, which is what i suspect.
>
> “Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices?”
> If you did not mean fire here, then what exactly did you mean?
>
> I would personally say that maps like regret, are scaled in between sprinting and normal running, personally.
> If you are at a severe disadvantage for not using sprint then that is your choice, as i said, to be used at your discretion. A failure of judgement is not 343i’s fault.
>
> To conclude, i have no idea why this thread really exists, since it has deviated from it’s original goals, of providing your own opinions, to criticizing each other. To me, it seems that people like you are not fully appreciative of the work 343 put in the game, though it is imperfect. I personally think, they are literally the most generous Devs i have seen to present day. Which is why i will not be returning any responses to this, as i got tired of rebutting the same points over and over again.
> Sianara, and have a nice day.

Wait, what? You’re making assumptions about my playstyle now? lol I talked about thrust being more useful for evading a shotgun than sprint, and gave a reason why. In classic Halo, a well-placed grenade made someone with a shotgun one shot. Thrust allows you to avoid grenades, and so does sprint. It’s also much more difficult to predict when someone will decide to push. Sprint does have a longer effect than thrusting, but it can be diminished by being shot, which means that sprint-jumps are pretty much luck-based. If you can’t predict your opponents movement, then you can’t be certain that you’ll make the jump, even if you do it the right way. Hold up, so I don’t understand how sprinting works, because I acknowledge that it only allows you to move forward and left or right to a relatively small degree? LOL, dude, I get that you can use the increased movement speed to jump and then turn to fire. I understand when to, and not to, sprint. What you don’t seem to understand is that you are missing the whole point of this entire thread.

omg, please tell me that you’re joking. XD Sprint has ruined Halo’s map design because maps are scaled to sprint, which has the additional consequence of slowing down the gameplay. Like… double you tea…

Have you tested your hypothesis?
The fact that you’re trying to act condescending is absolutely hilarious to me, you have no idea. Like, I just don’t even want to bother responding to this one. lol I don’t even know where to start, so I won’t.

If you have no idea why this thread exists, then you probably don’t have a brain. If you do, then you should use it, and actually engage in a civil debate. “Don’t like it, don’t use it.” is not an acceptable answer to this thread, and if you think for yourself, then you would know why that is. Have you read my responses on the Official Firefight Feedback thread? Or my posts in this thread? Firefight is the reason why I’m playing Halo 5–that, and maybe Riftball, which is actually really, really good. I love 343i’s take on Firefight–for the most part. But at the same time, they should’ve included a classic Firefight playlist, with unlimited ammo and the like. Warzone Firefight is hardcore, casuals just don’t have the skill to beat it–more often than not.

If 343i was generous, then they would’ve catered to the core Halo fanbase as well. Anyway, your rebuttals have been nothing more than large collections of logical fallacies, so my bet is that you’re just another troll. Either contribute to what’s being said, or don’t bother saying anything at all. “If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all.”

7873

> 2533274795123910;7871:
> > 2535473635314008;7869:
> > I think were at the point where the golden triangle cannot be a 100 % be all and end all rule to what makes halo. The game does need to evolve out of this constricting box. The devs who created the triangle won’t even stay within its confines any longer. It’s not fair to ask 343 to forgo their creativity and do exactly as the previous devs did.
>
>
> Let’s say we take a healthy approach to the Triangle, not the over-exaggerated one, and still keep to it.
> Our limitations force us to be creative.
>
> Here are some examples of things.
>
> I don’t think the i343 game designers are tapping their creativity glands as much as they’re tapping their mimicking glands.

Dude, that is the truth.

Welcome to being a human, m i rite?

7874

> 2533274795123910;7871:
> > 2535473635314008;7869:
> > I think were at the point where the golden triangle cannot be a 100 % be all and end all rule to what makes halo. The game does need to evolve out of this constricting box. The devs who created the triangle won’t even stay within its confines any longer. It’s not fair to ask 343 to forgo their creativity and do exactly as the previous devs did.
>
>
> Let’s say we take a healthy approach to the Triangle, not the over-exaggerated one, and still keep to it.
> Our limitations force us to be creative.
>
> Here are some examples of things.
>
> I don’t think the i343 game designers are tapping their creativity glands as much as they’re tapping their mimicking glands.

I read through your list, you’ve got some ideas I don’t like, but some I think would be very solid.

I was a big fan of the old arena shooters from the nineties. Some of your ideas would bring halo a little closer to that genre that everyone else is getting away from.

I especially like the unreal Tournamnet influence on the promethian weapons. Like a mutator. Pick up ammo as you go.

Health pack pickups again would be cool. But I would keep regenerative shields, I’m pretty sure you meant to keep this as well.

Portals instead of teleporters. Big win. Gamers are way to campy and cheap now. A teleporter was very often a cheap death. I would love if then portal showed a arial view of the room you’re entering.

7875

> 2533274801176260;7870:
> > 2535473635314008;7869:
> > One side can’t say that anything that’s changed from halo 3 needs to be taken out of the game.
>
>
> FYI: Nobody ever said that. Ever.
>
> Otherwise, your suggestion was basically the very same thing that has been asked for years by now.

Not quite. Many want the same movement speed and mechanics exactly the same as halo 1-3. You may not but I can go through this thread and find many that want all Spartan abilities and Sprint removed. I don’t see that as a viable option. Yes you can make changes to the game without touching those. But I like the faster movement, even on bigger maps. I think this is where the cap should be. I don’t want Unreal Tournamnet speeds in halo.

Thrusters have iMO made Sprint redundant. They allow for quick evades and can close the distance in a hurry to gain an advantage if you are holding a shotty, smg etc. Sprint can go as long as the thruster or a mechanic similar exists.

I dont want do see halo 1-3 movement return, even with smaller maps. But Sprint isn’t necessary. I do think more people find it a hinderence to their enjoyment of the game that those that find it a necessity. Most of us just don’t really care about Sprint. I just want people to play halo with me.

7876

> 2533274816931642;7808:
> > 2535444751788311;7806:
> > > 2533274816931642;7802:
> > > > 2535444751788311;7792:
> > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I fully agree. Don’t like sprint? Don’t sprint, fine by me, your just an easier target. I personally believe sprint was one of the few things that has improved what little needed to be improved about halo.
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you believe that the map design has improved? Would you mind explaining your reasons as to why it has or has not?
> >
> >
> > Thank you for asking a good question. My answer is that, for the most part, the new map designs are focused on allowing players to run, jump, and clamber in fast pace games. This allows a whole new way to strategize your fighting and teamwork. I believe that the new designs are good, but if there was no sprint or clamber it would kind of be pointless in some areas.
>
>
> No problem, thank you for answering it. I disagree with you, I think that Halo 5 has a slower pace than classic Halo. Speed is an illusion in H5, it takes just as much time to sprint to where you could have ran in a classic Halo map. This means that you have to sprint, or else you’ll be at a major disadvantage. In other words, sprint hasn’t improved Halo, unless you think that a slower pace was what it needed. As for sprint-jumps, what if you get shot right before you jump?
>
> Would you mind answering another question? How does sprint and clamber enable you to use new strategies?

You brought up some good points and I understand where you are coming from with them. To answer your new question, let’s say your playing on a map that has lots of areas that would allow you to attack your enemys from above. Let’s also say these ledges are slightly high than you regular jump, now you have to either run and jump or clamber up on it. Another instantacne would be trying to run from an enemy or towards them while under fire. Sprinting obviously would allow you to get there faster but with clamber you can clamber onto obstacles that are higher than you can jump. At this piont jumping and boosting foward would allow an even greater advantage. I hope I answered your question if not let me know and I can try to elaborate more.

7877

What on earth? Am I actually seeing some pro sprinters understating our view on this subject, some even changing sides? It brings a tear into my eyes… :,)

Sorry guys I haven’t been so active lately, uni started a while ago. Will try to keep the conversation going. I’m seeing less and less of keep sprint, makes the game faster, the game needs to evolve or something like that…

7878

> 2533274816931642;7854:
> > 2533274855279867;7848:
> > > 2535426262519166;7847:
> > > > 2533274922666376;7841:
> > > > Sprint affects SOOOO much more than movement speed.
> > > >
> > > > - Quicker movement speed means maps have to be stretched out in order to compensate on the TTK’s…This results in poor map quality in my opinion.
> > > > - This results in fairly bland map design and maps in general being much larger. I’ve yet to see maps that compare to Construct, The Pit and Guardian.
> > > > - If you test it out, WALKING the length of a relatively small “pre-sprint” map equates to the same time to SPRINT the length of its equivalent. You do not cross a map any quicker than the Halo’s without sprint.
> > > > - Sprint means that TTK’s have had to be reduced slightly in order to kill players crossing open areas (in addition to slightly increased AA).
> > > > - It actually slows down gameplay as you’re not sprinting all of the time…it can become a game of “who sees who first” depending if someone is sprinting blind.
> > > >
> > > > If someone has specific details such as the above, arguing for how sprint BENEFITS gameplay, please feel free to get into a civilised discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > EMMURSION
> >
> >
> > Thats a big one… But larger maps are also a benefit. You can have larger, grander maps that can handle more players without having to resort to gimmicky teleporters or vehicles, or the awkward man cannons- these don’t fit into every setting or always make sense.
> >
> > Bland design isnt sprint’s fault, its 343.
>
>
> Man-cannons were done really well on Narrows. They also allowed for really unique movements, if you used them right. Beaver Creek was easily one of the best objective maps in a Halo game, and it had teleporters–that added depth to the gameplay.
>
> Sprint is an unnecessary mechanic.

i dont mean that these things cant exist, but that they dont always make sense. Narrows is a fine map, so was beaver creek. But there are a number of maps where these two things would be out of place.

As an aside, the teleporters on beaver creek were not about crossing large spaces, they were about tactics and multiple pathways.

An example of an awkward teleporter is headlong. There is no reason for it in the original. Its out of place in the city setting. A man cannon is likewise not appropriate thematically, hence the remake using an engine of a crashed vehicle. you can only get so far with this kind of stuff before you really start limiting the kinds of large maps and spaces you can create and still feel natural.

7879

> 2535426262519166;7850:
> > 2533274855279867;7848:
> > > 2535426262519166;7847:
> > > > 2533274922666376;7841:
> > > > Sprint affects SOOOO much more than movement speed.
> > > >
> > > > - Quicker movement speed means maps have to be stretched out in order to compensate on the TTK’s…This results in poor map quality in my opinion.
> > > > - This results in fairly bland map design and maps in general being much larger. I’ve yet to see maps that compare to Construct, The Pit and Guardian.
> > > > - If you test it out, WALKING the length of a relatively small “pre-sprint” map equates to the same time to SPRINT the length of its equivalent. You do not cross a map any quicker than the Halo’s without sprint.
> > > > - Sprint means that TTK’s have had to be reduced slightly in order to kill players crossing open areas (in addition to slightly increased AA).
> > > > - It actually slows down gameplay as you’re not sprinting all of the time…it can become a game of “who sees who first” depending if someone is sprinting blind.
> > > >
> > > > If someone has specific details such as the above, arguing for how sprint BENEFITS gameplay, please feel free to get into a civilised discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > EMMURSION
> >
> >
> > Thats a big one… But larger maps are also a benefit. You can have larger, grander maps that can handle more players without having to resort to gimmicky teleporters or vehicles, or the awkward man cannons- these don’t fit into every setting or always make sense.
> >
> > Bland design isnt sprint’s fault, its 343.
>
>
> No, it is sprints fault.
>
> I’ve played sprintless customs on BTB maps in this game and it is wonderful.

Your anecdotal experience doesnt change the facts.

7880

> 2533274986342659;7865:
> > 2533274816931642;7862:
> > > 2533274986342659;7856:
> > > > 2533274816931642;7842:
> > > > > 2533274986342659;7814:
> > > > > > 2533274816931642;7714:
> > > > > > > 2533274986342659;7692:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816931642;7671:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274986342659;7636:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535426262519166;7123:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274986342659;7122:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274846700578;7110:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274986342659;7106:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No way. I do not particularly like sprint but removing it is certainly for the worst.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cool reason why.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > One reason would be because it is a sign of outdated gameplay.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2 of the 3 most played FPS games this year do not use sprint.(Overwatch, CS GO)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Add to that Doom which was a critical campaign darling.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If anything hopelessly clinging to the COD train is what is the sign of being outdated. This isn’t 2012 anymore.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apart from Overwatch, both DOOM and CSGO only do that partly because they are both older games, with gameplay designed at the beginning of the century. I don’t know about DOOM, but CSGO uses Source 2, which is the sequel engine to the one used in the original CS. While i think it makes sense in CSGO, i don’t think it’ll make it any more competitive for Halo if sprint was to be removed. In CSGO everything can be calculated, such as player health and their relative position and ETA. In Halo everything regens, and due to sprint, player timings are unpredictable, thus making it more competitive but in a different way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A way that isn’t in line with what Halo was, yes. I’d be fine with this gameplay in a different title by 343i.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now that i think about it, CSGO does have two speeds, one walking to reduce noise, and the other running normally. Look at it this way, you don’t have to play newer halos if you don’t like them that much, but the question remains if this is progressive or is this unnecessary. I am shifting towards progressive but not to sure. All i know is that it does not hamper gameplay, and makes it easier and more strategic at times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CS:GO had sprint removed due to community outcry. Classic Halo had crouch-walking to reduce noise. How does it not hamper gameplay? How does it make it easier, or more strategic?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It gives more options for the player on how to act. Theoretically, the player gets one more option of mobility, or flight rather than fight, with an expensive weapon. It also gives the defending player a chance against some weapons like the shotgun, provided there is enough room, and we are not even getting into the campaign and casual gaming. Even if CSGO had sprint, it still doesn’t change that it also has two movement speeds at the moment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, having your movement locked to forward with a few degrees of left or right movement gives you more options on how to act? Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices? The only real option that sprint provides is to run away. Thrusting gives someone more of a chance against a shotgun than sprint. The campaign is irrelevant because it can be designed to not include sprint. Casual gaming? I never needed sprint in classic BTB. So does classic Halo, in fact it has three: crouch-walking, walking, and running.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not even sure if you are serious anymore. You know why? Cause then it would just be op. This is compensating for the possibility that a guy can just rush in, and take everyone out, with hem having less chance to hit him, if he does it right. Especially with a shotgun, it is already quite op, but if the guy could fire while running? That is just retarded. All i was saying that the sprint ability is an option in itself, to be used at YOUR discretion, meaning you don’t have to.
> >
> >
> > You can’t fire while thrusting, so you get the advantage on someone who is by taking the first shot. Using thrust, you can withdraw out of someone’s range much more easily (and in more directions) than you can by sprinting. Anyway, I never said anything about being able to fire while sprinting, I think that sprint is an unnecessary game mechanic altogether. Finally, sprint isn’t an option in Halo 5, it’s a requirement, because the maps are scaled to it. You are at a severe disadvantage if you never sprint. That’s why this thread exists.
>
>
> That is your choice to rush in instead of going more carefully. But that also depends if they hit that shot, and how close everything is relative to the defending.
> Sprinting has a longer effect than thrusting. Also, the fact that you even mention the problem with directions points to you not fully understanding how sprint works. As i said to the other hater-guy, if you were even close to a decent player, you would know how to sprint, stop to take a shot or turn, then move on. Only ppl with the worst reactions cannot do that, or if they had not tried, which is what i suspect.
>
> “Being unable to fire, throw grenades, or melee gives you more choices?”
> If you did not mean fire here, then what exactly did you mean?
>
> I would personally say that maps like regret, are scaled in between sprinting and normal running, personally.
> If you are at a severe disadvantage for not using sprint then that is your choice, as i said, to be used at your discretion. A failure of judgement is not 343i’s fault.
>
> To conclude, i have no idea why this thread really exists, since it has deviated from it’s original goals, of providing your own opinions, to criticizing each other. To me, it seems that people like you are not fully appreciative of the work 343 put in the game, though it is imperfect. I personally think, they are literally the most generous Devs i have seen to present day. Which is why i will not be returning any responses to this, as i got tired of rebutting the same points over and over again.
> Sianara, and have a nice day.

Blaming gameplay based concerns on people’s skill is no argument, heck that’s one of the problems with h5 that it’s very over competitive. And blaming people not linking how sprint requires to lower your weapon on skill is even worse, I’m really thinking that your misunderstanding this entire thread. And what are we supposed to praise 343 for, making a call of duty clone, making a game that doesn’t work, or making a game with little to no content, all of those games cost 60$ and they all failed in one way or another.

7881

Halo 5 plays nothing like any call of duty game ever created.

This is argument is very detrimental to any kind of debate these threads can possibly bring up. It makes those opposed to certain mechanics appear uninformed and inexperienced in halo 5 gameplay.

I play halo 5 nightly. I played black ops 3 for a day. Didn’t like it. And the games are very different. If cod played like halo 5 I would be playing a lot more cod.