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> > > > > This whole post is based on opinion and either you like it or you don’t. Here’s a fact, the more factors and variables = greater skill dependency. end of fact, now for my opinion. Sprint was inevitable as much as boosting, quick switch in vehicles, and ledge climbing, in a progressively competitive game like the halo brand. if your tryng to shoot down a sprinter you might not get the kill if its not all headshots. if your being shot at and hit the corner out of sight, anything can happen. Depending on if you sprinted, when you started sprinting, and where you sprinted to. Maybe ill flank you, maybe ill wait for you and assassinate you. maybe I climbed up around that corner waiting to ground pound you. in all that time since you’ve lost sight you don’t know where am I, what I have, or what I’m gonna do. You can have a competitive game or you can game that keeps taking things in and out till everyone’s catered to. but you cant have both. shoutout to anyone who said sprint dosent have a place in competitive halo, I didn’t realize making the game easier means I’m a better player.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Untrue. Simply adding more variables does not increase a games dependency on skill. Those variable have to be a very particular kind in order to increase the dependency on skill.
> > >
> > >
> > > so lets take boost for a variable example. your chasing a Spartan and he jumps, boosts back and 1 hits you. you can either get caught in that slick move or you can turn it back on him. now your saying with things sneakyer moves like this vs halo 1-3 it is not dependent on skill. bare in mind you have a split second to remember this dirty trick and react correctly before hes behind you. I know we’re mainly talking about sprint particularly but you mentioned variables very generally. so if I boost out of your shot while u don’t boost away from mine that’s not skill? no of course not because remembering all of your abilitys and how to use them in the split second it matters is of no consequence at all. yepp that’s right the harder a game is to compete at an mlg level has nothing to do with your skill level. thanks.
> >
> >
> > you mentioned variables generally, not me. I said nothing about boosting.
>
>
> you know what forget what i said I’m with you guys. i wonna be catered and have things handed to me just like you guys. make halo great again!
you dont know what side I’m on… But glad to have you. We meet every Thursday.
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> > OP your comment is null and void.
> >
> > Sprint is awesome!
> >
> > Go back to Master -Yoink- edition and see how fricking slow the original games are. No thanks!
>
>
> Slow? That awkward moment you realise that CE is faster than H5…
… well… it can feel slow. kills were quick, yes. but the sensation of movement was very sluggish. not bad, just slow. Sprint definitely adds to the frenetic feel of the game. It makes movement feel immediate and urgent. Those are extremely fun for a good number of people. I would love to see a sprint mechanic inserted into all the old halo campaigns. It would make the roleplaying aspects even better.
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> > I am very tired of this topic. I cannot believe that we still need to explain why sprint is bad for Halo. Did we get any good reason that tells us why sprint is good for Halo? Nope, still getting replies like “Halo needs to evolve” and “I like sprint”.
>
>
> I don’t think we heard any good reasons why it was bad either. Even if we did get any for or against it’s all a matter of opinion. OPINION: I hate Call of Duty because every year it’s a copy and paste of itself with a new skin. FACT: Grass is green and water is wet. See? Don’t like sprint? Don’t use it. If you are that upset then go play Super Mario Bros. Problem solved.
So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
Just saying don’t sprint doesn’t solve the issues.
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> > > OP your comment is null and void.
> > >
> > > Sprint is awesome!
> > >
> > > Go back to Master -Yoink- edition and see how fricking slow the original games are. No thanks!
> >
> >
> > Slow? That awkward moment you realise that CE is faster than H5…
>
>
> … well… it can feel slow. kills were quick, yes. but the sensation of movement was very sluggish. not bad, just slow. Sprint definitely adds to the frenetic feel of the game. It makes movement feel immediate and urgent. Those are extremely fun for a good number of people. I would love to see a sprint mechanic inserted into all the old halo campaigns. It would make the roleplaying aspects even better.
This is true. But we must agree on that sprint makes the game slower. Do you understand what sprint is? When you sprint in H5 you are running with the speed of halos 1-3 base movement speed. Which means that when you are not sprinting you are going slower than in H 1-3. So if we took out sprint you would be going sprint speed with base movement speed. Isn’t it fun going sprint speed all the time? Sprint is an animation. Here is a list I’ll now put out for the forth time:
So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
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> > > > > I am very tired of this topic. I cannot believe that we still need to explain why sprint is bad for Halo. Did we get any good reason that tells us why sprint is good for Halo? Nope, still getting replies like “Halo needs to evolve” and “I like sprint”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This. All I see is “I like sprint” and they said they do not need any reason why they think it helps Halo in good way. They never even tried to tell people why sprint is good for Halo, when another side tells you why sprint is bad for Halo.
> > >
> > >
> > > There are plenty of responses on the boons of Sprint. Theyre just buried.
> >
> >
> > Examples? Other than “sprint evolves the game”, “sprint helps you go places quicker”, and “every game needs sprint”.
>
>
> did you miss the part where they are buried? start digging if you really care.
Digging through over 6,000 posts trying to find what are probably, realistically ten or fewer posts that explain the pro-sprint perspective adequately is not viable. And that’s not a dig at the pro-sprint crowd. The situation on the other side of the fence is almost as bad. This thread is 90% complete noise and 9% cliches. You can’t find anything useful here.
If you want people to see the arguments, repeat those arguments, or at least point the people in the right direction. What you are saying essentially amounts to the more general “google it” when asked to provide evidence on something said on the internet. It’s completely unhelpful to everyone.
What I’ve realized long ago is that if you want to debate with people on the internet, you’ll have to be prepared to repeat arguments over and over again. And if there’s anything you learn in the process, it’s how badly you’ve explained yourself in the past, which hopefully makes your future arguments better. When you can’t be bothered to do that anymore, there’s no point acting like you have an argument unless you really do. I haven’t been capable of piecing together a coherent argument in a while, but the solution isn’t for me to tell people to dig through my posts from 2013.
You guys realize this is pointless to argue over right? They’re probably keeping sprint no matter what. You think they’re going to listen to a forum post?
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> You guys realize this is pointless to argue over right? They’re probably keeping sprint no matter what. You think they’re going to listen to a forum post?
So you do believe that the changes / removal of several different mechanics throughout the Halo History is not because of feedback, partially done through forum posts?
I wish we could go back to the no-sprint days, but the simple fact is, is that every new fps has sprint. if halo 6 came with no sprint it just wouldn’t compete with all of the other fps’s out there. Miss those days though:(
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> I wish we could go back to the no-sprint days, but the simple fact is, is that every new fps has sprint. if halo 6 came with no sprint it just wouldn’t compete with all of the other fps’s out there. Miss those days though:(
Hmm
Doom
Overwatch
Quake Champions
Vermintide
CS:GO
Most likely Space Hulk: Deathwing
> 2533274806962521;6787:
> You guys realize this is pointless to argue over right? They’re probably keeping sprint no matter what. You think they’re going to listen to a forum post?
They do. I mean they got rid of flinch because we asked, they’ve brought back a lot of the old weapons because we asked and we have say in what playlists get rotated in to the mix. We have say in what happens to the game. It’s just that 343i doesn’t like it’s “classic halo”- fans. We ask: Can we get a classic playlist? And they say: Yeah, sorry we forgot, but here’s a golden banshee! Ya know…
Oh, and before you ask, your six months without infection and griffball are my broken/forgotten MCC, soask me if your interests are at the top of my mid.
same, I dont understand why people really dislike sprint. I always find it so useful when trying to get to certain areas during campaigns and online games.
I always looked over these posts considering they are all over the place but I came to realise that not sprinting in arena actually gives a huge advantage over people who are. When I say that, I mean obviously when Spartan Charge isn’t put into play because, be honest, who actually likes being Spartan Charged? Anyway, if you’re over a melee distance away, not sprinting actually makes it easier to aim quicker, get control quicker and deal possibly life saving damage in the time it takes for the other person to notice you and stop sprinting. If you read this, try it out maybe once or twice and see if you agree with what i’m talking about.
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> I always looked over these posts considering they are all over the place but I came to realise that not sprinting in arena actually gives a huge advantage over people who are. When I say that, I mean obviously when Spartan Charge isn’t put into play because, be honest, who actually likes being Spartan Charged? Anyway, if you’re over a melee distance away, not sprinting actually makes it easier to aim quicker, get control quicker and deal possibly life saving damage in the time it takes for the other person to notice you and stop sprinting. If you read this, try it out maybe once or twice and see if you agree with what i’m talking about.
um no definitely not.
If I decide not to sprint and everyone else is sprinting, everyone else gets to play with the power weapons and to essential choke points.
Take out sprint, it’s the way ahead.
Halo never needed Sprint to make it great but it’s there now and there is nothing that will change that until the vast majority of players agree it should be removed, which is highly unlikely. I suggest a classic no sprint playlist for those whom want that competitive nostalgia.
I can’t believe I have to come every single day to repeat myself. All I see here is the anti-sprint people having clear thoughts, great perspective, and constructive arguments.
But then all you see with pro-sprint people is them bashing the anti-sprint people telling them they are nostalgia blind, or the same boring argument which holds no value, of that halo needs to evolve.
WELL YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THEIR SALES HAVEN’T EVOLVED ONE BIT -Yoink-.
Population and sales are at an all-time low.
Halo hasn’t evolved, it has dumbed down, into a generic shooter that is just built around esports. Sprint doesn’t belong in halo, it has a fundamental flaw.
When you have two KEY movement options in a halo game and where one is slower than the other, you ALMOST negate the first one. Think about it, what’s the point of me walking when I can just sprint? I can get to places faster, I can outplay opponents with spartan charge, I can get the power weapons quicker, and you might be thinking, let’s get rid of spartan charge.
Guess what sunshine? THAT DOESN’T DO ANYTHING, because before there was spartan charge, there was DOUBLE MELEE, which was more annoying than spartan charge.
So then with sprint, what’s the point of walking? The only time when I’m not sprinting, is when I’m shooting, throwing a grenade, or meleeing. AND SURPRISE, SURPRISE, THOSE THREE THINGS WERE WHAT MADE HALO HALO, THE GRENADE, SHOOTING, MELEE!!!
So clearly sprinting in halo, isn’t halo.
It needs to get rid of.
Pro sprint players, how about you try to find the upsides of sprint and bring them to no-sprint halo.
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> Halo never needed Sprint to make it great but it’s there now and there is nothing that will change that until the vast majority of players agree it should be removed, which is highly unlikely. I suggest a classic no sprint playlist for those whom want that competitive nostalgia.
When bungie implemented dual-wielding, a majority was like KEEP IT. But bungie knew that, that wasn’t their game, halo was never supposed to play like that.
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> > Id rather keep sprint.
>
>
> same, I dont understand why people really dislike sprint. I always find it so useful when trying to get to certain areas during campaigns and online games.
Because it shouldn’t be in halo, oh wait you like getting to places quicker?
Then how about we make maps shorter and the base movement speed quicker, then you won’t be needing sprint anymore.
Said it before and will continue to say it. One mechanic doesn’t make or break or even define a game. Halo plays just fine with and without sprint. I do tend to side with the for sprint and players who prefer it. Mainly because it has been in Halo long enough it probably should stay. There isn’t a herd of players out there sitting around waiting for sprint to be removed and they will start playing again. Adding sprint didn’t single handedly drop the Halo population. Multiple factors did from simply players going to other games(most of which have sprint) or simply just not gaming any more. Removing it may hurt the population more because I bet the majority of players playing now have been playing Halo longer with sprint. I also like how the players who prefer sprint are less yoinks about it. I see recent anti sprinters say oh there isn’t a good reason why to have it… hate to tell you simply liking it IS a good enough reason. It all boils down to opinion no matter how long winded your reason for not liking it is. One person said sprinting is the same speed as the base movement of HCE-3…haha you are joking right? Go back to MCC, load up Valhalla and walk around the map then load up ragnarok and sprint around the map… if you think you navigate the maps at the same speed you have zero concept of speed or distance. Sprinting allows players to navigate maps faster. It adds a bit of realism aka immersion to the game.
This whole debate is pointless because the anti sprinters will never accept any reason why pro sprinters like sprinting and vice versa. Whether you prefer it or not Halo is Halo with and without it.
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> Somebodys a little mad with spartan charge.
Um no, we are mad that halo has lost its uniqueness and how it’s having an identity crisis. Even if we remove spartan charge it would be a double-melee fest.
Halo doesn’t need to be generic to sell, back when it wasn’t generic, look how many copies it sold. Yup halo 3 sold 12 Million, and look at the competition then
Counter strike source, Cod 4, Crisis, Gears of war, Cod 5, Mass effect, Mirrors edge, Oblivion, Bioshock, Team fortress 2, Unreal tournament 3, Assasins creed, God of war 2, Killzone.
Yup, out of all of those halo 3 was the most popular.