WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
Here, i’ll sum up the entire thread, sorry I have to keep doing this but I’m seeing way too many, “i don’t need to justify my opinion for sprint because I like it.”
Anti Sprint: Cleverly thought out arguments, these people have done countless hours of research into the mechanic realizing the fundamental problems with halo and why it shouldn’t be in halo.
Pro sprint: Arguments that don’t make any sense, just “THAT’S MY OPINION, STOP OPPRESSING ME TOXIC!”, people getting butthurt (please excuse my behavior) over their invalid opinion being challenged by people with brains.
By order of the thread, I declare the Anti-sprint people have won me over, I would like OP to rename the title to Official sprint discussion thread, and people who are Pro sprint have no real argument in-comparison to the Anti-sprint ones.
Just like bungie, 343 make mistakes, like dual-wielding. So what should 343 do? Take out the problem, it’s fundamental wrong.
And I know people are going to say, dual wielding was still in halo 3, yeah I know, I never said halo 3 was perfect, but it was miles better than halo 5.
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> WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
Go through the past pages and it explains why.
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> > > > > > > > So at this point, are there any good arguments to keep sprint? There are plenty of good arguments that show how sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think you mean the other way around. 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please, make a claim and back it up with an argument.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Don’t need to. If I like its good enough for Me. 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Exactly why your opinion is kinda irrelevant
> > > >
> > > > If your argument stops at “you like it” regardless of the evidence against having the mechanic, there is no reason to keep it for your sake, because it’s such a flimsy, ungrounded response.
> > > >
> > > > It’s like giving a suspected criminal a innocent verdict because he was charismatic despite all evidence showing he was guilty
> > >
> > >
> > > I have reason to like it and it’s My opinion, you have reason to dislike and that’s your opinion. So um, what do you dislike anyway? O_o
> >
> >
> > Take a nice long look through this thread for every reason why sprint is bad for Halo, regardless of whether you like it or not, it changes the game massively in a negative way, and why there is no reason for sprint to exist over a fast base movespeed
>
>
> Now I’ve played every Halo and I just don’t know what you guys are talking about. Simply explain why sprint is bad so I have another opinion on it. (‘o’)
Sprint and Abilities tied to it, and thruster, are illusive mechanics that have a rippling effect down through the games design, changing everying from Map Design Scale, to Strafe Effectiveness.
Sprint and most abilities seperate Gunplay from movement, which inherently slows the game down. It forces players to choose between Moving at full speed, and shooting. And doenst actually make the game play faster, because the maps are made so much bigger, so sprint doesn’t get you around any faster, and just limits map design and makes engagement ranges very, very long compared to a map like Midship or Sanctuary.
Infact, between the lack of talent in 343s level designers and the mechanics, their level design is so limited what 4 of 343s Multiplayer maps are two tower two base maps, because they can’t make many other effective designs. Any deviation from that design generally plays Atrocious (with the exception of Plaza).
Furthermore compare Midship to Bigship (Truth). Midship in Halo 2-3 would NEVER Reach a the time limit in a 4v4, it’s to fast paced and tight, you can move around the map really effectively. In Truth, there is so much flat, open dead space, and it can fairly regularly Reach the time limit, or hit overtime.
Sprint and some of the abilities are simply unnecessary additions that could be accomplished with a faster base move speed, and better strafing. Doing this allows for more interesting map design, better more streamlined gameplay.
There are no benefits to sprint over a faster base movespeed. NONE.
And that’s putting it simply, there is so much more to it, read through the thread
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> WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
- People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
- Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
- It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
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> > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
>
>
> So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
>
> - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
And that still only scratches the surface
I think its rewarding to have a double shoulder bash and its a no shields dual, one shot head shot wins. How is that no skill? It happens so fast. If you want, saunter around and toss an insane amount of grenades to every spot in the map where someone could possibly hide because of OP radar while hopping around like a bunny rabbit. wow much skill. What a joke.
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> > > > > > > > > So at this point, are there any good arguments to keep sprint? There are plenty of good arguments that show how sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think you mean the other way around.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please, make a claim and back it up with an argument.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don’t need to. If I like its good enough for Me.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Exactly why your opinion is kinda irrelevant
> > > > >
> > > > > If your argument stops at “you like it” regardless of the evidence against having the mechanic, there is no reason to keep it for your sake, because it’s such a flimsy, ungrounded response.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s like giving a suspected criminal a innocent verdict because he was charismatic despite all evidence showing he was guilty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have reason to like it and it’s My opinion, you have reason to dislike and that’s your opinion. So um, what do you dislike anyway? O_o
> > >
> > >
> > > Take a nice long look through this thread for every reason why sprint is bad for Halo, regardless of whether you like it or not, it changes the game massively in a negative way, and why there is no reason for sprint to exist over a fast base movespeed
> >
> >
> > Now I’ve played every Halo and I just don’t know what you guys are talking about. Simply explain why sprint is bad so I have another opinion on it. (‘o’)
>
>
> Sprint and Abilities tied to it, and thruster, are illusive mechanics that have a rippling effect down through the games design, changing everying from Map Design Scale, to Strafe Effectiveness.
>
> Sprint and most abilities seperate Gunplay from movement, which inherently slows the game down. It forces players to choose between Moving at full speed, and shooting. And doenst actually make the game play faster, because the maps are made so much bigger, so sprint doesn’t get you around any faster, and just limits map design and makes engagement ranges very, very long compared to a map like Midship or Sanctuary.
>
> Infact, between the lack of talent in 343s level designers and the mechanics, their level design is so limited what 4 of 343s Multiplayer maps are two tower two base maps, because they can’t make many other effective designs. Any deviation from that design generally plays Atrocious (with the exception of Plaza).
>
> Furthermore compare Midship to Bigship (Truth). Midship in Halo 2-3 would NEVER Reach a the time limit in a 4v4, it’s to fast paced and tight, you can move around the map really effectively. In Truth, there is so much flat, open dead space, and it can fairly regularly Reach the time limit, or hit overtime.
>
> Sprint and some of the abilities are simply unnecessary additions that could be accomplished with a faster base move speed, and better strafing. Doing this allows for more interesting map design, better more streamlined gameplay.
>
> There are no benefits to sprint over a faster base movespeed. NONE.
I see what your saying, however with Gunplay and Movement I prefer this because it slows the game down. Also if you want to traverse the map quickly you get the Risk vs Reward factor, Reward get to the Camo faster Risk No Gunplay and Movement. Abilities are not Sprint. Map design is not Sprint, although I can say 343 doesn’t make many effective designs for maps there are Forgers out there who do a good job.
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> I think its rewarding to have a double shoulder bash and its a no shields dual, one shot head shot wins. How is that no skill? It happens so fast. If you want, saunter around and toss an insane amount of grenades to every spot in the map where someone could possibly hide because of OP radar while hopping around like a bunny rabbit. wow much skill. What a joke.
How is a double charge different from where the both of you malee each other? Remember how in the competetive settings you had no radar and no automatic weapons that kill you 1,5 seconds, the same amount of time it takes to get a perfect with the pistol? I know, what a joke XD
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> > > > > > > > > > So at this point, are there any good arguments to keep sprint? There are plenty of good arguments that show how sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think you mean the other way around.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please, make a claim and back it up with an argument.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don’t need to. If I like its good enough for Me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Exactly why your opinion is kinda irrelevant
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If your argument stops at “you like it” regardless of the evidence against having the mechanic, there is no reason to keep it for your sake, because it’s such a flimsy, ungrounded response.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s like giving a suspected criminal a innocent verdict because he was charismatic despite all evidence showing he was guilty
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have reason to like it and it’s My opinion, you have reason to dislike and that’s your opinion. So um, what do you dislike anyway? O_o
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Take a nice long look through this thread for every reason why sprint is bad for Halo, regardless of whether you like it or not, it changes the game massively in a negative way, and why there is no reason for sprint to exist over a fast base movespeed
> > >
> > >
> > > Now I’ve played every Halo and I just don’t know what you guys are talking about. Simply explain why sprint is bad so I have another opinion on it. (‘o’)
> >
> >
> > Sprint and Abilities tied to it, and thruster, are illusive mechanics that have a rippling effect down through the games design, changing everying from Map Design Scale, to Strafe Effectiveness.
> >
> > Sprint and most abilities seperate Gunplay from movement, which inherently slows the game down. It forces players to choose between Moving at full speed, and shooting. And doenst actually make the game play faster, because the maps are made so much bigger, so sprint doesn’t get you around any faster, and just limits map design and makes engagement ranges very, very long compared to a map like Midship or Sanctuary.
> >
> > Infact, between the lack of talent in 343s level designers and the mechanics, their level design is so limited what 4 of 343s Multiplayer maps are two tower two base maps, because they can’t make many other effective designs. Any deviation from that design generally plays Atrocious (with the exception of Plaza).
> >
> > Furthermore compare Midship to Bigship (Truth). Midship in Halo 2-3 would NEVER Reach a the time limit in a 4v4, it’s to fast paced and tight, you can move around the map really effectively. In Truth, there is so much flat, open dead space, and it can fairly regularly Reach the time limit, or hit overtime.
> >
> > Sprint and some of the abilities are simply unnecessary additions that could be accomplished with a faster base move speed, and better strafing. Doing this allows for more interesting map design, better more streamlined gameplay.
> >
> > There are no benefits to sprint over a faster base movespeed. NONE.
>
>
> I see what your saying, however with Gunplay and Movement I prefer this because it slows the game down. Also if you want to traverse the map quickly you get the Risk vs Reward factor, Reward get to the Camo faster Risk No Gunplay and Movement. Abilities are not Sprint. Map design is not Sprint, although I can say 343 doesn’t make many effective designs for maps there are Forgers out there who do a good job.
All of that existed without sprint. I’ve made maps that play alot better than 343 (see Backlash on my files)
But even, Sgt x Slaphead and Myself made the old school settings which show that Halo 5 Scaling STILL plays better with faster base movement and no sprint
I’ll put in my 2 cents.
I like Sprint.
I don’t have a super well reasoned argument for that or anything. I just prefer it to no-sprint
I also like Thruster dodge (forgot what its actually called) and clamber.
It just feels more like a Spartan to me. As someone who’s really into the lore, I just like it better that way.
I also have much more fun with it, then without.
I feel like the best way to make a compromise with both sides would be to have seperate playlists. One with Spartan Abilities and on without.
It’s not perfect, but like I said, compromise.
So there’s my two cents. Do with it what you will.
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> > I think its rewarding to have a double shoulder bash and its a no shields dual, one shot head shot wins. How is that no skill? It happens so fast. If you want, saunter around and toss an insane amount of grenades to every spot in the map where someone could possibly hide because of OP radar while hopping around like a bunny rabbit. wow much skill. What a joke.
>
>
> How is a double charge different from where the both of you malee each other? Remember how in the competetive settings you had no radar and no automatic weapons that kill you 1,5 seconds, the same amount of time it takes to get a perfect with the pistol? I know, what a joke XD
so basically you are saying there is no difference, sprint or not. also the auto weapons only kill you quick if you are close, so maybe call it a sprint deterrent. Try and square off with someone not charging like an idiot and you got an smg out, you are toast. I love how nobody wants to adapt their gameplay to the new system. Wait till H6 comes out and we will be here complaining how these different style grenades aren’t halo enough for everyone.
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> > > > > > > > > > > So at this point, are there any good arguments to keep sprint? There are plenty of good arguments that show how sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think you mean the other way around.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please, make a claim and back it up with an argument.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don’t need to. If I like its good enough for Me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exactly why your opinion is kinda irrelevant
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If your argument stops at “you like it” regardless of the evidence against having the mechanic, there is no reason to keep it for your sake, because it’s such a flimsy, ungrounded response.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It’s like giving a suspected criminal a innocent verdict because he was charismatic despite all evidence showing he was guilty
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have reason to like it and it’s My opinion, you have reason to dislike and that’s your opinion. So um, what do you dislike anyway? O_o
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Take a nice long look through this thread for every reason why sprint is bad for Halo, regardless of whether you like it or not, it changes the game massively in a negative way, and why there is no reason for sprint to exist over a fast base movespeed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now I’ve played every Halo and I just don’t know what you guys are talking about. Simply explain why sprint is bad so I have another opinion on it. (‘o’)
> > >
> > >
> > > Sprint and Abilities tied to it, and thruster, are illusive mechanics that have a rippling effect down through the games design, changing everying from Map Design Scale, to Strafe Effectiveness.
> > >
> > > Sprint and most abilities seperate Gunplay from movement, which inherently slows the game down. It forces players to choose between Moving at full speed, and shooting. And doenst actually make the game play faster, because the maps are made so much bigger, so sprint doesn’t get you around any faster, and just limits map design and makes engagement ranges very, very long compared to a map like Midship or Sanctuary.
> > >
> > > Infact, between the lack of talent in 343s level designers and the mechanics, their level design is so limited what 4 of 343s Multiplayer maps are two tower two base maps, because they can’t make many other effective designs. Any deviation from that design generally plays Atrocious (with the exception of Plaza).
> > >
> > > Furthermore compare Midship to Bigship (Truth). Midship in Halo 2-3 would NEVER Reach a the time limit in a 4v4, it’s to fast paced and tight, you can move around the map really effectively. In Truth, there is so much flat, open dead space, and it can fairly regularly Reach the time limit, or hit overtime.
> > >
> > > Sprint and some of the abilities are simply unnecessary additions that could be accomplished with a faster base move speed, and better strafing. Doing this allows for more interesting map design, better more streamlined gameplay.
> > >
> > > There are no benefits to sprint over a faster base movespeed. NONE.
> >
> >
> > I see what your saying, however with Gunplay and Movement I prefer this because it slows the game down. Also if you want to traverse the map quickly you get the Risk vs Reward factor, Reward get to the Camo faster Risk No Gunplay and Movement. Abilities are not Sprint. Map design is not Sprint, although I can say 343 doesn’t make many effective designs for maps there are Forgers out there who do a good job.
>
>
> All of that existed without sprint. I’ve made maps that play alot better than 343 (see Backlash on my files)
>
> But even, Sgt x Slaphead and Myself made the old school settings which show that Halo 5 Scaling STILL plays better with faster base movement and no sprint
Still H5 works for H5. I’ve played with increased movement speed before and yeah it’s fine. But here’s a reason I’d prefer Sprint. A Spartan comes around a corner into a long sight line Sprinting, Me I check My radar keep it steady go around the corner, each of us see each other at the same time but I have the advantage because I played it smart, I get the first shots and I win.
> 2533274943854776;6606:
> > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
>
>
> So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
>
> - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
- The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
- Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
- It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
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> > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> >
> >
> > So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
> >
> > - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> > - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> > - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> > So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
>
>
> 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
> 2535410901623492;6616:
> > 2535423139980712;6615:
> > > 2533274943854776;6606:
> > > > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> > >
> > >
> > > So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
> > >
> > > - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> > > - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> > > - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> > > So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
> >
> >
> > 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> > 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> > 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> > And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
>
>
> I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
>
> Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
>
> But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
It’s not meant to be like any other Halo game, it’s unique. My points have no backing? How does your points have any backing? This obviously not about Sprint at all and is a classic Halo vs new Halo issue. This Sprint thing is just opinionated. Oh and if you can’t have a proper discussion about this without getting angry, well…
Oh yeah and Obi Wan bring it on.
> 2535423139980712;6617:
> > 2535410901623492;6616:
> > > 2535423139980712;6615:
> > > > 2533274943854776;6606:
> > > > > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > > > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> > > > - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> > > > - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> > > > So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> > > 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> > > 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> > > And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
> >
> >
> > I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
> >
> > Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
> >
> > But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
>
>
> It’s not meant to be like any other Halo game, it’s unique. My points have no backing? How does your points have any backing? This obviously not about Sprint at all and is a classic Halo vs new Halo issue. This Sprint thing is just opinionated. Oh and if you can’t have a proper discussion about this without getting angry, well…
> Oh yeah and Obi Wan bring it on.
LOL despite all the facts listed throughout this thread, that were touched upon by myself and Obi Wan
It’s not opinion. It’s all factual influence on the game design of Halo 5. Halo 5 unique? No Ho 1, 2 and 3 were unique games that Had an identity. Halo 5 copies the “movement ability” trend we had since titanfall.
It’s the furthest from unique Halo can get.
> 2535410901623492;6616:
> > 2535423139980712;6615:
> > > 2533274943854776;6606:
> > > > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> >
> >
> > 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> > 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> > 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> > And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
>
>
> I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
>
> Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
>
> But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
This.
Halo 5 is a completely different game than Halo 1-3. The correlation between which camp (Pro/anti sprint) seems to be which game the gamer played first.
But beyond that. I think one thing both sides can agree on is that we want halo 6 to be at it’s best. We need solid debate on this issue, because it IS a big issue.
I feel that the two biggest components - at the core of game design for shooters - are movement and TTK. Gunplay/design, Map size/design, Default team size, etc - all these points stem from movement and TTK. Tweaking TTK expectations has a huge effect on map design and gameplay - SWAT game types show this to great effect. Even though TTK is much quicker, the games will normally play out slower because people have to be more cautious. Movement speed is the same way. If you can get from one end of a map to the other in 6 seconds…then that’s a freakin small map. It may seem large, but to much movement speed makes it a small area.
The Sprint debate needs to happen…And this thread has produced some good discussion points. I’ve read the good arguments for pro-sprint and I see their side of the debate. I don’t agree with them, but I understand the platform that they are trying convey. I feel the anti-sprint arguments counter these points…but I’m biased and I’m not afraid to admit that.
> 2535410901623492;6618:
> > 2535423139980712;6617:
> > > 2535410901623492;6616:
> > > > 2535423139980712;6615:
> > > > > 2533274943854776;6606:
> > > > > > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > > > > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
> > > > >
> > > > > - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> > > > > - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> > > > > - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> > > > > So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> > > > 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> > > > 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> > > > And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
> > >
> > > Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
> > >
> > > But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
> >
> >
> > It’s not meant to be like any other Halo game, it’s unique. My points have no backing? How does your points have any backing? This obviously not about Sprint at all and is a classic Halo vs new Halo issue. This Sprint thing is just opinionated. Oh and if you can’t have a proper discussion about this without getting angry, well…
> > Oh yeah and Obi Wan bring it on.
>
>
> LOL despite all the facts listed throughout this thread, that were touched upon by myself and Obi Wan
>
> It’s not opinion. It’s all factual influence on the game design of Halo 5. Halo 5 unique? No Ho 1, 2 and 3 were unique games that Had an identity. Halo 5 copies the “movement ability” trend we had since titanfall.
>
> It’s the furthest from unique Halo can get.
Ok so it’s not Sprint than its just Halo 5. Go play MCC then, seriously it’s got good games on it. Not joking or being sarcastic MCC is good.
> 2535423139980712;6620:
> > 2535410901623492;6618:
> > > 2535423139980712;6617:
> > > > 2535410901623492;6616:
> > > > > 2535423139980712;6615:
> > > > > > 2533274943854776;6606:
> > > > > > > 2535423139980712;6602:
> > > > > > > WHY IS SPRINT BAD? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So here are ways that sprint effects the gameplay, after I’ve gone through them I will explain how they hurt the gameplay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - People get away with bad positioning. This means that good positioning becomes less rewarding.
> > > > > > - Sprint encourages double melees or spartan charges in H5. This is a very skill-less kill, especially if the other person is better at shooting.
> > > > > > - It brakes map flow. In Reach we had sprint in the MLG playlist for the 2011-year. We also had a 1:1 remake of sanctuary. Sanctuary is a legendary H2 map. So what we noticed, was that the best players were no longer afraid to cross the yard to the enemy snipe-hut, but they were in H2. Why? Because you could cross the yard so fast. But in H2 if someone saw you in yard, you were dead. The same was true for bridge and carbine. People didn’t think if they should cross them or not, because you could do it so fast. So we made the maps bigger.
> > > > > > So the big maps are bad because in combat the cover is thousand miles away. They have separated movement from combat and designed the maps around fast movement, but not for slow combat. And these maps are terrible! They don’t have a theme, they use verticality very poorly, have no powerful power positions and have no way to predict Flow. The pathing is terrible. But Obi you ask: Why is this a bad thing? Because it takes skill out of flow prediction. Why are double melees/charges bad? Because they make shooting less rewarding and shooting takes skill. Why is “getting away with bad positioning” a bad thing? Because it makes good positioning less rewarding and good positioning takes skill.So sprint takes a lot of skill out of the game. Why is that a bad thing? Because when kills are easy to get and you’re throwing a dice on how many kills you get, then they are no longer fun to get. And it’s not like those games shouldn’t exist, but we have CoD. That games all about spinning a dice for kills.Look at Halo: CE. Everything in that game takes skill. The pistol is hard to use, the sniper is hard to use, the Ar is hard to use, grenade jumps are hard to do, double melees are hard to do, giving your team-mate a random spawn is hard to plan for, not spawn -yoinking- your team-mate is hard to do, pinning people down to spawn kill their team-mate is hard to do, grenading weapons is hard to do, grenading power ups is hard to do. Everything in CE takes skill, but look at H2. Sniper is easy to use, so is the Br, power weapons are on dynamic timers, the the melee system is easy. The whole thing was mess. Now in H5 it’s gotten worse. All this stuff that’s in the game is easy and everyone can do them. Sniper is easy, dmr, Br and pistol are easy, clamber is easy, thruster pack is easy, sprinting is easy and they patched out one of the three things that took skill in this game in fast falls. So no, I don’t think sprint should be in the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. The more skilled player will always be in a better position, a worse off player will not succeed. Also there are power positions in Halo 5 what are you talking about?
> > > > > 2. Double Melees sounds like a noob thing. A. The better player will get shots in before a Melee. B. Sprinting to try and get a double Melee is a disadvantage, unless you come around a corner which C. A better player will check Radar and beat that noob.
> > > > > 3. It does not break map flow for H 5 because it is H 5 and designed for H5.
> > > > > And 4. Maps are not Sprint, Double Meele is not Sprint and the mechanics are not Sprint
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ll let Master Obi Wan Handle the major detail. Your points have absolutely no Backing. Sprint isn’t those things, but it has a ripple effect on them.
> > > >
> > > > Saying it “works in Halo 5” is redundent, because Halo 5 plays very little like Halo 1,2 or 3. And that is the point. Its not just a different game, it feels like a different Franchise or more specifically, and amalgamation of -Yoink- from other franchises twisted and shoved up Halos -Yoink- and someone said “it fit in there, so it works”
> > > >
> > > > But just like Edward Norton in American History X, Halo’s -Yoink- is gonna look hella different
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s not meant to be like any other Halo game, it’s unique. My points have no backing? How does your points have any backing? This obviously not about Sprint at all and is a classic Halo vs new Halo issue. This Sprint thing is just opinionated. Oh and if you can’t have a proper discussion about this without getting angry, well…
> > > Oh yeah and Obi Wan bring it on.
> >
> >
> > LOL despite all the facts listed throughout this thread, that were touched upon by myself and Obi Wan
> >
> > It’s not opinion. It’s all factual influence on the game design of Halo 5. Halo 5 unique? No Ho 1, 2 and 3 were unique games that Had an identity. Halo 5 copies the “movement ability” trend we had since titanfall.
> >
> > It’s the furthest from unique Halo can get.
>
>
> Ok so it’s not Sprint than its just Halo 5. Go play MCC then, seriously it’s got good games on it. Not joking or being sarcastic MCC is good.
we would if the MCC wasn’t a failed -Yoink!-