The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > What compelled you to even make a post about this? Do you actually think sprint is such a big deal? That actually makes me sad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > * Squints, sees 291 pages in thread*
> > > >
> > > > Seems like a pretty big deal to me even if you disagree with that.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve read through quite a few pages here man, and most of them are people calling you idiotic. I don’t see how sprint takes away the feeling of Halo being Halo… Makes no sense to me.
> >
> >
> > Interesting. Most of what I read have been people just saying “I like it” or something about how it will never be removed and all anti-sprinters are insert hurr-durr or butthurt something related insult here who don’t want to see the game evolve. Very few people have been providing compelling or even competent arguments on the side of pro sprint and the few reasons that have been competent we’ve already proposed solutions too and explained why it would work.
> >
> > I mean yea everyone’s gonna call us stupid when they log in, read the first two comments, and post a knee jerk reply without having any consideration for discussion. Do you really think the people who aren’t even bothering to read whilst being super stubborn and the toxic people really support any kind of reasonable argument?
>
>
> This is a very accurate representation of this thread sadly…
>
> It’d be nice if we could update the OP with links to parts of this thread that have bred good discussions…but 300+ pages would be a lot to sift through. If I get bored I may give it a go. I’ll see how far I can get before my eyes bleed.

Well technically OP could edit his OP, but he would need to do a lot of sifting at this point to find all the good arguments and concessions and I’m not just gonna up and expect that of him because I probably wouldn’t.

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> > > What compelled you to even make a post about this? Do you actually think sprint is such a big deal? That actually makes me sad.
> >
> >
> > * Squints, sees 291 pages in thread*
> >
> > Seems like a pretty big deal to me even if you disagree with that.
>
>
> I don’t see how sprint takes away the feeling of Halo being Halo.

You can’t effectively move around the map and shoot at the same time. That was the part of the gameplay that drew a lot of people to Halo in the first place.

I loved Halo because it was one of the few games that did not penalise your movement when you engaged in combat. You didn’t have to drop to a lower speed to shoot. You didn’t have to give up lateral movement in order to aim in with a weapon. You didn’t incur accuracy penalties for strafing for jumping. Combat and movement were seamlessly blended.

Sprint destroys that. You have to now choose between speed and combat. Which is the most “unhalo” thing I can think of.

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> > > > > > What compelled you to even make a post about this? Do you actually think sprint is such a big deal? That actually makes me sad.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * Squints, sees 291 pages in thread*
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems like a pretty big deal to me even if you disagree with that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve read through quite a few pages here man, and most of them are people calling you idiotic. I don’t see how sprint takes away the feeling of Halo being Halo… Makes no sense to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting. Most of what I read have been people just saying “I like it” or something about how it will never be removed and all anti-sprinters are insert hurr-durr or butthurt something related insult here who don’t want to see the game evolve. Very few people have been providing compelling or even competent arguments on the side of pro sprint and the few reasons that have been competent we’ve already proposed solutions too and explained why it would work.
> > >
> > > I mean yea everyone’s gonna call us stupid when they log in, read the first two comments, and post a knee jerk reply without having any consideration for discussion. Do you really think the people who aren’t even bothering to read whilst being super stubborn and the toxic people really support any kind of reasonable argument?
> >
> >
> > This is a very accurate representation of this thread sadly…
> >
> > It’d be nice if we could update the OP with links to parts of this thread that have bred good discussions…but 300+ pages would be a lot to sift through. If I get bored I may give it a go. I’ll see how far I can get before my eyes bleed.
>
>
> Well technically OP could edit his OP, but he would need to do a lot of sifting at this point to find all the good arguments and concessions and I’m not just gonna up and expect that of him because I probably wouldn’t.

I’ve toyed with the idea of gathering useful stuff and asking the OP if I could edit it in. But the reality is that I just don’t have the time to go through the whole discussion, and really, I haven’t even had the time to consider the arguments related to sprint in-depth. Ideally I’d like to have a list of all the sensible (and maybe even some less sensible) arguments for and against sprint, and some explanation and criticism. But then I always realize the size of the task, not to mention that I’d probably be too biased to pull of the pro-sprint arguments. Not that I haven’t done equally big and more useless projects, but with this one I wouldn’t know what to do.

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> > > It honestly depends if you play halo for the game, or the story. If it’s game then you probably don’t want sprint because of the older halos. But if you play for story, sprint is a better thing. Think of being a genetically engineered super soldier that can’t run??? Doesn’t seem too super to me. Which is why in halo 6, I’m hoping to have sprint in a way that feels like original halo. I would want a sprint that is activated without even clicking a button. I picture it that there is no button for sprint. You move the LS as if you were just walking, but after a certain amount of distance is covered without stopping, your guy just automatically speeds up. So if I want to sprint from one side of the map to the other, I just start walking like normal, and maybe after walking about 6-7 meters without stopping, my Spartan automatic ally picks up speed. This is just my opinion. Let me know if you like this idea or not in a respectful way. Please no haters. I just think it’s a good combination for people with story and people with multiplayer
> >
> >
> > What if you play Halo for both game and story?
>
>
> That’s the point of this. It gives a balance where you can still sprint to feel like a supersoldier. But it gives older halo players the feeling with not having sprint as an ability, but instead a boost for walking a bit slowly. Also it will kill the tactic where if your shield is down, you can just sprint off. If you wanna get out you have to try and start walking away and hope they miss enough shots where you can start sprinting. So most fights you have to stay and fight and you wouldn’t be able to
> run away like you were able to in halo 4.

I play Halo primarily for story, yet I still hate sprint. Gameplay-issues aside, sprint goes against Halo lore, since Spartans can run at speeds almost twice as fast than sprint in the games while still being able to fire their guns, and very accurately, too. Case in point. Sprint makes me feel less like a super soldier because of that, and if story were the main focus, then sprint needs to be removed and replaced with a high base movement speed. What you’re describing is basically the same thing, except with a very slow acceleration. Regardless, the inability to shoot absolutely needs to go.

That being said, gameplay should still come first before lore. Always.

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> > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
>
>
> Another bland “Halo needs to evolve” statement.

good argument. (aka… you are wrong and have no argument to use against me)

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> > > > It honestly depends if you play halo for the game, or the story. If it’s game then you probably don’t want sprint because of the older halos. But if you play for story, sprint is a better thing. Think of being a genetically engineered super soldier that can’t run??? Doesn’t seem too super to me. Which is why in halo 6, I’m hoping to have sprint in a way that feels like original halo. I would want a sprint that is activated without even clicking a button. I picture it that there is no button for sprint. You move the LS as if you were just walking, but after a certain amount of distance is covered without stopping, your guy just automatically speeds up. So if I want to sprint from one side of the map to the other, I just start walking like normal, and maybe after walking about 6-7 meters without stopping, my Spartan automatic ally picks up speed. This is just my opinion. Let me know if you like this idea or not in a respectful way. Please no haters. I just think it’s a good combination for people with story and people with multiplayer
> > >
> > >
> > > What if you play Halo for both game and story?
> >
> >
> > That’s the point of this. It gives a balance where you can still sprint to feel like a supersoldier. But it gives older halo players the feeling with not having sprint as an ability, but instead a boost for walking a bit slowly. Also it will kill the tactic where if your shield is down, you can just sprint off. If you wanna get out you have to try and start walking away and hope they miss enough shots where you can start sprinting. So most fights you have to stay and fight and you wouldn’t be able to
> > run away like you were able to in halo 4.
>
>
> I play Halo primarily for story, yet I still hate sprint. Gameplay-issues aside, sprint goes against Halo lore, since Spartans can run at speeds almost twice as fast than sprint in the games while still being able to fire their guns, and very accurately, too. Case in point. Sprint makes me feel less like a super soldier because of that, and if story were the main focus, then sprint needs to be removed and replaced with a high base movement speed. What you’re describing is basically the same thing, except with a very slow acceleration. Regardless, the inability to shoot absolutely needs to go.

I do believe as well you should be able the shoot in your faster movement. In this idea your not full on sprinting and swinging your arms like how you do in cod, your still holding your gun up in normal walking stance, but you just slowly accelerate. Sort of as a gift for walking everywhere.

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> > > > > It honestly depends if you play halo for the game, or the story. If it’s game then you probably don’t want sprint because of the older halos. But if you play for story, sprint is a better thing. Think of being a genetically engineered super soldier that can’t run??? Doesn’t seem too super to me. Which is why in halo 6, I’m hoping to have sprint in a way that feels like original halo. I would want a sprint that is activated without even clicking a button. I picture it that there is no button for sprint. You move the LS as if you were just walking, but after a certain amount of distance is covered without stopping, your guy just automatically speeds up. So if I want to sprint from one side of the map to the other, I just start walking like normal, and maybe after walking about 6-7 meters without stopping, my Spartan automatic ally picks up speed. This is just my opinion. Let me know if you like this idea or not in a respectful way. Please no haters. I just think it’s a good combination for people with story and people with multiplayer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What if you play Halo for both game and story?
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s the point of this. It gives a balance where you can still sprint to feel like a supersoldier. But it gives older halo players the feeling with not having sprint as an ability, but instead a boost for walking a bit slowly. Also it will kill the tactic where if your shield is down, you can just sprint off. If you wanna get out you have to try and start walking away and hope they miss enough shots where you can start sprinting. So most fights you have to stay and fight and you wouldn’t be able to
> > > run away like you were able to in halo 4.
> >
> >
> > I play Halo primarily for story, yet I still hate sprint. Gameplay-issues aside, sprint goes against Halo lore, since Spartans can run at speeds almost twice as fast than sprint in the games while still being able to fire their guns, and very accurately, too. Case in point. Sprint makes me feel less like a super soldier because of that, and if story were the main focus, then sprint needs to be removed and replaced with a high base movement speed. What you’re describing is basically the same thing, except with a very slow acceleration. Regardless, the inability to shoot absolutely needs to go.
>
>
> I do believe as well you should be able the shoot in your faster movement. In this idea your not full on sprinting and swinging your arms like how you do in cod, your still holding your gun up in normal walking stance, but you just slowly accelerate. Sort of as a gift for walking everywhere.

But if I had to choose strictly sprint or no sprint. I would choose no sprint and just make the base movement faster

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> > > > > It honestly depends if you play halo for the game, or the story. If it’s game then you probably don’t want sprint because of the older halos. But if you play for story, sprint is a better thing. Think of being a genetically engineered super soldier that can’t run??? Doesn’t seem too super to me. Which is why in halo 6, I’m hoping to have sprint in a way that feels like original halo. I would want a sprint that is activated without even clicking a button. I picture it that there is no button for sprint. You move the LS as if you were just walking, but after a certain amount of distance is covered without stopping, your guy just automatically speeds up. So if I want to sprint from one side of the map to the other, I just start walking like normal, and maybe after walking about 6-7 meters without stopping, my Spartan automatic ally picks up speed. This is just my opinion. Let me know if you like this idea or not in a respectful way. Please no haters. I just think it’s a good combination for people with story and people with multiplayer
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What if you play Halo for both game and story?
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s the point of this. It gives a balance where you can still sprint to feel like a supersoldier. But it gives older halo players the feeling with not having sprint as an ability, but instead a boost for walking a bit slowly. Also it will kill the tactic where if your shield is down, you can just sprint off. If you wanna get out you have to try and start walking away and hope they miss enough shots where you can start sprinting. So most fights you have to stay and fight and you wouldn’t be able to
> > > run away like you were able to in halo 4.
> >
> >
> > I play Halo primarily for story, yet I still hate sprint. Gameplay-issues aside, sprint goes against Halo lore, since Spartans can run at speeds almost twice as fast than sprint in the games while still being able to fire their guns, and very accurately, too. Case in point. Sprint makes me feel less like a super soldier because of that, and if story were the main focus, then sprint needs to be removed and replaced with a high base movement speed. What you’re describing is basically the same thing, except with a very slow acceleration. Regardless, the inability to shoot absolutely needs to go.
>
>
> I do believe as well you should be able the shoot in your faster movement. In this idea your not full on sprinting and swinging your arms like how you do in cod, your still holding your gun up in normal walking stance, but you just slowly accelerate. Sort of as a gift for walking everywhere.

Yes, people have already suggested similar mechanics in the past, and it got shot down because “It’s just speed walking” and “I want risk/reward” or something like that…

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> > > > > > 2533274932615283;6202:
> > > > > > It honestly depends if you play halo for the game, or the story. If it’s game then you probably don’t want sprint because of the older halos. But if you play for story, sprint is a better thing. Think of being a genetically engineered super soldier that can’t run??? Doesn’t seem too super to me. Which is why in halo 6, I’m hoping to have sprint in a way that feels like original halo. I would want a sprint that is activated without even clicking a button. I picture it that there is no button for sprint. You move the LS as if you were just walking, but after a certain amount of distance is covered without stopping, your guy just automatically speeds up. So if I want to sprint from one side of the map to the other, I just start walking like normal, and maybe after walking about 6-7 meters without stopping, my Spartan automatic ally picks up speed. This is just my opinion. Let me know if you like this idea or not in a respectful way. Please no haters. I just think it’s a good combination for people with story and people with multiplayer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What if you play Halo for both game and story?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s the point of this. It gives a balance where you can still sprint to feel like a supersoldier. But it gives older halo players the feeling with not having sprint as an ability, but instead a boost for walking a bit slowly. Also it will kill the tactic where if your shield is down, you can just sprint off. If you wanna get out you have to try and start walking away and hope they miss enough shots where you can start sprinting. So most fights you have to stay and fight and you wouldn’t be able to
> > > > run away like you were able to in halo 4.
> > >
> > >
> > > I play Halo primarily for story, yet I still hate sprint. Gameplay-issues aside, sprint goes against Halo lore, since Spartans can run at speeds almost twice as fast than sprint in the games while still being able to fire their guns, and very accurately, too. Case in point. Sprint makes me feel less like a super soldier because of that, and if story were the main focus, then sprint needs to be removed and replaced with a high base movement speed. What you’re describing is basically the same thing, except with a very slow acceleration. Regardless, the inability to shoot absolutely needs to go.
> >
> >
> > I do believe as well you should be able the shoot in your faster movement. In this idea your not full on sprinting and swinging your arms like how you do in cod, your still holding your gun up in normal walking stance, but you just slowly accelerate. Sort of as a gift for walking everywhere.
>
>
> Yes, people have already suggested similar mechanics in the past, and it got shot down because “It’s just speed walking” and “I want risk/reward” if or something like that…

Yeah if I had to pick between sprint and no sprint. I would choose no sprint with faster base movement

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> > > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
> >
> >
> > Another bland “Halo needs to evolve” statement.
>
>
> good argument. (aka… you are wrong and have no argument to use against me)

How am I wrong? I and other people already posted why sprint isn’t a good thing and should be absent in future. But there are people commenting like this comment “Halo needs to evolve”. Do we need to write same thing over and over when you could just look up about 300 pages to know why? If you insist I will write for you.

  1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
  2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
  3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
  4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
  5. Movement becomes generic.
  6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
  7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
  8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
  9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
  10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.
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312 pages and no 343 response.

Bungie would have jumped in 200 pages ago.

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> 312 pages and no 343 response.
>
> Bungie would have jumped in 200 pages ago.

This is so true it hurts.

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> 312 pages and no 343 response.
>
> Bungie would have jumped in 200 pages ago.

RIGHT?!?!

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> > 2535441849067315;6232:
> > 312 pages and no 343 response.
> >
> > Bungie would have jumped in 200 pages ago.
>
>
> RIGHT?!?!

We need to debate until we have 343 pages

I’d also like to Quote Justima’s list of arguments for removing sprint.

> 1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
> 2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
> 3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
> 4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
> 5. Movement becomes generic.
> 6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
> 7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
> 8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
> 9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
> 10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.

This is an excellent list. I’d love to see something similar from the Pro-Sprint crowd that logically makes sense

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343 Doesn’t care about our opinions were vets they want us gone and gone they hate us because we know halo is no longer at its full potential and the true halos remember the golden triangle weapons grenade and melee ya sprint screws that map design and also anybody seen teleporters or man cannons in arena the must have for halo maps in arena anywhere besides forge

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> > > > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
>
>
> 1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
> 2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
> 3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
> 4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
> 5. Movement becomes generic.
> 6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
> 7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
> 8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
> 9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
> 10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.

Here’s my counter points/agreements from a neutral player on the topic:

  1. There’s been many unnecessary changes to halo from duel wielding to hijacking, to equipment pickups, to jet packs, to now with shoulder charge and other abilities, many of them even break this “golden triangle” that was really only relevant in h1 and h2. So sure, sprint is unnecessary but why not add one more uneccessary thing to the game?
  2. Like I said, the triangle was only used in CE and h2, bungie moved away from it after.
  3. It does indeed elongate the maps, but so long as a dev can do a great job at putting detail into them they wouldn’t be so bad, the issue with 353s maps are two things, they’re either to cluttered up, or there’s not enough cover and to much open space. As for the “illusion” you do factually move faster than BMS when sprint, the issue tho is once you engage in a fight that’s where it slows you down. I agree in the sense that removing sprint and simply upping the BMD can and would work, however you still lose the animation that makes the player “feel” like they’re actually sprint when your hud moves and your gun is being swayed back and forth, I know you guys dislike it but it removes half the immersion when doing this. Do I agree on immersion in this case tho? Not in this scenario, it just isn’t worth it to me.
  4. There’s many ways to look at it, halo is the only game I’ve ever seen that has actually penalized sprint more than any game that I know. It “evolves” halo in the sense that it was new to halo specifically once introduced but it never necessarily evolved to something no other game had yet to do. Sprint halo doesn’t differ from other sprint that games have unless you count them penalizing it, which really just shows it’s not working.
  5. Same as #4, had they done something completely new with sprint to make it differ from others, it could’ve removed the “generic” tag off it. But to be fair I could argue halos sprint isn’t generic due to all the limitations/restrictions/ and panalties added to it.
  6. Yes and no. H5s is argue no, reach h4 I’d argue yes. H5s version has been penalized so much that it really isn’t beneficial to run, plus with the change to the sandbox (stronger automatics, brought back map/power weapon control, running isn’t beneficial to me. I honestly don’t think many actually run away when losing but that’s just from my own experience, plus I probably just don’t pay attention to it anymore since h4 made it the norm. I guess it’s a take what you will scenario.
  7. This can actually be false/true and relies solely on the devs being able to work with it. A good dev can fix sprints negative effects that it’d have on your average dev but a great map maker “can” still add diversity to their maps.
  8. Agreed but each game will choose to do so in differing ways. It’d be kind of boring if all everyone did was no sprint games but only used BMS additions, it’s work for halo tho simply cuz it’s based off that and not many games do use BMS much, although that trend may actually spike up in the next few years.
  9. Yea? Even having sprint can improve on the formula. Just cuz it adds negativity to a few parts doesn’t mean it’s absolutely destructible to the forumula. I’d wager had 343 used better map creators to at least mask map elongation and put more detail in, as well as allowing us to fire our weapons while sprinting and maybe even improve the vehicle gameplay again, that sprint wouldn’t get quite as much heat and would be a tolerable addition to the game while not being quite so destructible to the game. Simply put sprint itself doesn’t just make something bad, it’s how sprint is used that will make it bad.
  10. This one is just a stereotype, even halo fans have been asking for faster paced gameplay (not necessarily sprint tho). As you said earlier, sprint gives the illusion of faster play but actually slows it down once in combat. It’s also understandable that the devs would try to implement something to pull in an audience, the issue with halo tho is 343 aren’t making sure the original fans are ok with it first. I do agree with the simple “cuz it’s expected” isn’t good enough, you have to first test it and see if it works, if not drop it, if it can make sure to test it further and make it suitable for core gameplay.
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> > 2535441849067315;6232:
> > 312 pages and no 343 response.
> >
> > Bungie would have jumped in 200 pages ago.
>
>
> RIGHT?!?!

Bungie of today would have 17 levels of convoluted trolling in it’s game design…DESTINY

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> > > > > 2533274847473633;6205:
> > > > > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
> >
> >
> > 1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
> > 2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
> > 3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
> > 4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
> > 5. Movement becomes generic.
> > 6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
> > 7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
> > 8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
> > 9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
> > 10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.
>
>
> Here’s my counter points/agreements from a neutral player on the topic:
> 1. There’s been many unnecessary changes to halo from duel wielding to hijacking, to equipment pickups, to jet packs, to now with shoulder charge and other abilities, many of them even break this “golden triangle” that was really only relevant in h1 and h2. So sure, sprint is unnecessary but why not add one more uneccessary thing to the game?
> 2. Like I said, the triangle was only used in CE and h2, bungie moved away from it after.
> 3. It does indeed elongate the maps, but so long as a dev can do a great job at putting detail into them they wouldn’t be so bad, the issue with 353s maps are two things, they’re either to cluttered up, or there’s not enough cover and to much open space. As for the “illusion” you do factually move faster than BMS when sprint, the issue tho is once you engage in a fight that’s where it slows you down. I agree in the sense that removing sprint and simply upping the BMD can and would work, however you still lose the animation that makes the player “feel” like they’re actually sprint when your hud moves and your gun is being swayed back and forth, I know you guys dislike it but it removes half the immersion when doing this. Do I agree on immersion in this case tho? Not in this scenario, it just isn’t worth it to me.
> 4. There’s many ways to look at it, halo is the only game I’ve ever seen that has actually penalized sprint more than any game that I know. It “evolves” halo in the sense that it was new to halo specifically once introduced but it never necessarily evolved to something no other game had yet to do. Sprint halo doesn’t differ from other sprint that games have unless you count them penalizing it, which really just shows it’s not working.
> 5. Same as #4, had they done something completely new with sprint to make it differ from others, it could’ve removed the “generic” tag off it. But to be fair I could argue halos sprint isn’t generic due to all the limitations/restrictions/ and panalties added to it.
> 6. Yes and no. H5s is argue no, reach h4 I’d argue yes. H5s version has been penalized so much that it really isn’t beneficial to run, plus with the change to the sandbox (stronger automatics, brought back map/power weapon control, running isn’t beneficial to me. I honestly don’t think many actually run away when losing but that’s just from my own experience, plus I probably just don’t pay attention to it anymore since h4 made it the norm. I guess it’s a take what you will scenario.
> 7. This can actually be false/true and relies solely on the devs being able to work with it. A good dev can fix sprints negative effects that it’d have on your average dev but a great map maker “can” still add diversity to their maps.
> 8. Agreed but each game will choose to do so in differing ways. It’d be kind of boring if all everyone did was no sprint games but only used BMS additions, it’s work for halo tho simply cuz it’s based off that and not many games do use BMS much, although that trend may actually spike up in the next few years.
> 9. Yea? Even having sprint can improve on the formula. Just cuz it adds negativity to a few parts doesn’t mean it’s absolutely destructible to the forumula. I’d wager had 343 used better map creators to at least mask map elongation and put more detail in, as well as allowing us to fire our weapons while sprinting and maybe even improve the vehicle gameplay again, that sprint wouldn’t get quite as much heat and would be a tolerable addition to the game while not being quite so destructible to the game. Simply put sprint itself doesn’t just make something bad, it’s how sprint is used that will make it bad.
> 10. This one is just a stereotype, even halo fans have been asking for faster paced gameplay (not necessarily sprint tho). As you said earlier, sprint gives the illusion of faster play but actually slows it down once in combat. It’s also understandable that the devs would try to implement something to pull in an audience, the issue with halo tho is 343 aren’t making sure the original fans are ok with it first. I do agree with the simple “cuz it’s expected” isn’t good enough, you have to first test it and see if it works, if not drop it, if it can make sure to test it further and make it suitable for core gameplay.

all halos even reach followed the triangle to an extent and dual wielding was removed from halo titles because it broke the triangle so why is dual wielding gone but sprint still hear

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> 2535448502262293;6239:
> > 2533274923562209;6237:
> > > 2535456165221911;6231:
> > > > 2533274847473633;6226:
> > > > > 2535456165221911;6207:
> > > > > > 2533274847473633;6205:
> > > > > > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
> > > 2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > 3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
> > > 4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
> > > 5. Movement becomes generic.
> > > 6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
> > > 7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
> > > 8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
> > > 9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
> > > 10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.
> >
> >
> > Here’s my counter points/agreements from a neutral player on the topic:
> > 1. There’s been many unnecessary changes to halo from duel wielding to hijacking, to equipment pickups, to jet packs, to now with shoulder charge and other abilities, many of them even break this “golden triangle” that was really only relevant in h1 and h2. So sure, sprint is unnecessary but why not add one more uneccessary thing to the game?
> > 2. Like I said, the triangle was only used in CE and h2, bungie moved away from it after.
> > 3. It does indeed elongate the maps, but so long as a dev can do a great job at putting detail into them they wouldn’t be so bad, the issue with 353s maps are two things, they’re either to cluttered up, or there’s not enough cover and to much open space. As for the “illusion” you do factually move faster than BMS when sprint, the issue tho is once you engage in a fight that’s where it slows you down. I agree in the sense that removing sprint and simply upping the BMD can and would work, however you still lose the animation that makes the player “feel” like they’re actually sprint when your hud moves and your gun is being swayed back and forth, I know you guys dislike it but it removes half the immersion when doing this. Do I agree on immersion in this case tho? Not in this scenario, it just isn’t worth it to me.
> > 4. There’s many ways to look at it, halo is the only game I’ve ever seen that has actually penalized sprint more than any game that I know. It “evolves” halo in the sense that it was new to halo specifically once introduced but it never necessarily evolved to something no other game had yet to do. Sprint halo doesn’t differ from other sprint that games have unless you count them penalizing it, which really just shows it’s not working.
> > 5. Same as #4, had they done something completely new with sprint to make it differ from others, it could’ve removed the “generic” tag off it. But to be fair I could argue halos sprint isn’t generic due to all the limitations/restrictions/ and panalties added to it.
> > 6. Yes and no. H5s is argue no, reach h4 I’d argue yes. H5s version has been penalized so much that it really isn’t beneficial to run, plus with the change to the sandbox (stronger automatics, brought back map/power weapon control, running isn’t beneficial to me. I honestly don’t think many actually run away when losing but that’s just from my own experience, plus I probably just don’t pay attention to it anymore since h4 made it the norm. I guess it’s a take what you will scenario.
> > 7. This can actually be false/true and relies solely on the devs being able to work with it. A good dev can fix sprints negative effects that it’d have on your average dev but a great map maker “can” still add diversity to their maps.
> > 8. Agreed but each game will choose to do so in differing ways. It’d be kind of boring if all everyone did was no sprint games but only used BMS additions, it’s work for halo tho simply cuz it’s based off that and not many games do use BMS much, although that trend may actually spike up in the next few years.
> > 9. Yea? Even having sprint can improve on the formula. Just cuz it adds negativity to a few parts doesn’t mean it’s absolutely destructible to the forumula. I’d wager had 343 used better map creators to at least mask map elongation and put more detail in, as well as allowing us to fire our weapons while sprinting and maybe even improve the vehicle gameplay again, that sprint wouldn’t get quite as much heat and would be a tolerable addition to the game while not being quite so destructible to the game. Simply put sprint itself doesn’t just make something bad, it’s how sprint is used that will make it bad.
> > 10. This one is just a stereotype, even halo fans have been asking for faster paced gameplay (not necessarily sprint tho). As you said earlier, sprint gives the illusion of faster play but actually slows it down once in combat. It’s also understandable that the devs would try to implement something to pull in an audience, the issue with halo tho is 343 aren’t making sure the original fans are ok with it first. I do agree with the simple “cuz it’s expected” isn’t good enough, you have to first test it and see if it works, if not drop it, if it can make sure to test it further and make it suitable for core gameplay.
>
>
> all halos even reach followed the triangle to an extent and dual wielding was removed from halo titles because it broke the triangle so why is dual wielding gone but sprint still hear

Yes all halos followed it to an extent, I’m simply saying that bungie slowly moved away from it after h2. H3 you could pick up a turret, and when you used equipment you were momentarily unable to perform anything from the triangle, reach is where it became much more noticeable and h4 really made it noticeable. Pretty much the triangle clearly isn’t on 343s priority list so why do people mention it? It hasn’t really been a focus for half a decade (if personally say longer). I’m in no way saying to drop the push for it either.

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> 2533274923562209;6240:
> > 2535448502262293;6239:
> > > 2533274923562209;6237:
> > > > 2535456165221911;6231:
> > > > > 2533274847473633;6226:
> > > > > > 2535456165221911;6207:
> > > > > > > 2533274847473633;6205:
> > > > > > > Games need to evolve (ex: add sprint), or this game would end up like Madden football. Where the same game essentially gets released with minor updates to physics.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1. Sprint is unnecessary thing added to the game.
> > > > 2. It breaks the Golden Triangle that formed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > 3. Maps get bigger due to sprint, which is also unnecessary change, it is illusion of being fast.
> > > > 4. Sprint doesn’t make game evolve. Let me ask you this, how sprint is evolution? What makes sprint evolving the game?
> > > > 5. Movement becomes generic.
> > > > 6. Sprint is used to run away from battle.
> > > > 7. Map loses variety/diversity due to sprint.
> > > > 8. Game doesn’t need sprint to be fast paced.
> > > > 9. Game should be improved upon its formula.
> > > > 10. The reason sprint was added is very idiotic. What “people are expected to see sprint”? Who are those people, oh yeah people from Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, etc. Why would 343 make a Halo game for them? Why add and change things to get them? They will still play their game, even though Halo has sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Here’s my counter points/agreements from a neutral player on the topic:
> > > 1. There’s been many unnecessary changes to halo from duel wielding to hijacking, to equipment pickups, to jet packs, to now with shoulder charge and other abilities, many of them even break this “golden triangle” that was really only relevant in h1 and h2. So sure, sprint is unnecessary but why not add one more uneccessary thing to the game?
> > > 2. Like I said, the triangle was only used in CE and h2, bungie moved away from it after.
> > > 3. It does indeed elongate the maps, but so long as a dev can do a great job at putting detail into them they wouldn’t be so bad, the issue with 353s maps are two things, they’re either to cluttered up, or there’s not enough cover and to much open space. As for the “illusion” you do factually move faster than BMS when sprint, the issue tho is once you engage in a fight that’s where it slows you down. I agree in the sense that removing sprint and simply upping the BMD can and would work, however you still lose the animation that makes the player “feel” like they’re actually sprint when your hud moves and your gun is being swayed back and forth, I know you guys dislike it but it removes half the immersion when doing this. Do I agree on immersion in this case tho? Not in this scenario, it just isn’t worth it to me.
> > > 4. There’s many ways to look at it, halo is the only game I’ve ever seen that has actually penalized sprint more than any game that I know. It “evolves” halo in the sense that it was new to halo specifically once introduced but it never necessarily evolved to something no other game had yet to do. Sprint halo doesn’t differ from other sprint that games have unless you count them penalizing it, which really just shows it’s not working.
> > > 5. Same as #4, had they done something completely new with sprint to make it differ from others, it could’ve removed the “generic” tag off it. But to be fair I could argue halos sprint isn’t generic due to all the limitations/restrictions/ and panalties added to it.
> > > 6. Yes and no. H5s is argue no, reach h4 I’d argue yes. H5s version has been penalized so much that it really isn’t beneficial to run, plus with the change to the sandbox (stronger automatics, brought back map/power weapon control, running isn’t beneficial to me. I honestly don’t think many actually run away when losing but that’s just from my own experience, plus I probably just don’t pay attention to it anymore since h4 made it the norm. I guess it’s a take what you will scenario.
> > > 7. This can actually be false/true and relies solely on the devs being able to work with it. A good dev can fix sprints negative effects that it’d have on your average dev but a great map maker “can” still add diversity to their maps.
> > > 8. Agreed but each game will choose to do so in differing ways. It’d be kind of boring if all everyone did was no sprint games but only used BMS additions, it’s work for halo tho simply cuz it’s based off that and not many games do use BMS much, although that trend may actually spike up in the next few years.
> > > 9. Yea? Even having sprint can improve on the formula. Just cuz it adds negativity to a few parts doesn’t mean it’s absolutely destructible to the forumula. I’d wager had 343 used better map creators to at least mask map elongation and put more detail in, as well as allowing us to fire our weapons while sprinting and maybe even improve the vehicle gameplay again, that sprint wouldn’t get quite as much heat and would be a tolerable addition to the game while not being quite so destructible to the game. Simply put sprint itself doesn’t just make something bad, it’s how sprint is used that will make it bad.
> > > 10. This one is just a stereotype, even halo fans have been asking for faster paced gameplay (not necessarily sprint tho). As you said earlier, sprint gives the illusion of faster play but actually slows it down once in combat. It’s also understandable that the devs would try to implement something to pull in an audience, the issue with halo tho is 343 aren’t making sure the original fans are ok with it first. I do agree with the simple “cuz it’s expected” isn’t good enough, you have to first test it and see if it works, if not drop it, if it can make sure to test it further and make it suitable for core gameplay.
> >
> >
> > all halos even reach followed the triangle to an extent and dual wielding was removed from halo titles because it broke the triangle so why is dual wielding gone but sprint still hear
>
>
> Yes all halos followed it to an extent, I’m simply saying that bungie slowly moved away from it after h2. H3 you could pick up a turret, and when you used equipment you were momentarily unable to perform anything from the triangle, reach is where it became much more noticeable and h4 really made it noticeable. Pretty much the triangle clearly isn’t on 343s priority list so why do people mention it? It hasn’t really been a focus for half a decade (if personally say longer). I’m in no way saying to drop the push for it either.

all halos that haven’t used have flopped horribly and the equipment only took away a few seconds and reach was a testing ground for destiny