The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > The -Yoink-? What does hardware have to do with gameplay mechanics? You guys seriously don’t believe there were games with clamber around the original xbox era?
> > >
> > > Definitely one of the weaker pro-sprint arguments I’ve heard.
> > >
> > > The lack of these mechanics back then wasn’t because it would be impossible to implement them. It was because developers either didn’t care about adding them or simply hadn’t thought about doing it.
> >
> >
> > Arguments like his are good way to find out who the young ones are. At least then we can’t really expect them to know too much about the topic at hand.
>
>
> that’s a bit mean…
> but still true XD

I wasn’t trying to be mean, but there have been a number of times I see people talk about issues like these, but they’re young enough (maybe 20 yrs old or below) to not know much about either the earlier days of the franchise or the earlier days of gaming. The thing is, they often get offended when someone says that even though it’s completely normal. We’ve all been there when we were young talking about stuff we didn’t quite understand, we just thought we did.

I mean, he apparently thinks sprint wasn’t possible 15 years ago due to hardware limitations, totally unaware that sprint has been around for longer than that. He even said that as if we don’t know what we’re talking about. Can’t really take people like that seriously until they show that they want to be taken seriously.

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> In any one on one, shoot grenade melee still applies, sure there are a few variables now with the abilities and sprint in how you engage but Its still at the core of any gunfight and still the most useful tool set at your disposal to win any battles in H5. Sprint to put it simply is for map traversal. Now you could argue if its a relevant/necessary and or a positive inclusion and I would be inclined to agree but surely dual wielding broke the scared “golden triangle” more than sprint ever could ?

The Golden Triangle was never strictly defined as far as I know, though the general concept seems to be that you should never be discouraged from using all of your offensive tools (especially for an extended period of time). Dual wielding in Halo 2 obviously put a damper on that because it started you with a dual wieldable weapon, which encouraged you to dual wield (thus limiting your offensive capabilities). That’s why they ditched it as a starting weapon in Halo 3, because it kept dual wielding from feeling necessary every time you respawned for many players.

Sprint being a traversal option is irrelevant because it’s still goes against the concept of the GT. There shouldn’t be a “traversal mode” and a “combat mode” anyway, they should be one in the same for faster paced, more fluid gameplay. If you’re simply traversing the map, you should not be limited in your offensive capabilities. Sprint is a worse offender of the GT than dual wielding because, unlike dual wielding where you can still shoot (and melee, if you really wanted), you cannot use any of your offensive capabilities, except for Spartan Charge when certain conditions are met.

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> I would say that sprinting should stay but have it be staggered or timed like in Halo Reach. The thrusters in this game has really changed the way Halo is played. Yes it is a mechanic but one of the reasons why its harder to kill someone. I can hold my own but with all the changes in this Halo, this is the first halo game that my KD ratio actually has decreased. All games are different but this one took a big branch from COD. This game was primarily built around war zone. I like being able to call in anything I want but with the decreased health and shield strength, I feel like I’m lacking. Keep sprint but have it staggered or timed

You want shorter TTK to make Halo into Twitch shooter?

You said Halo 5 took a big branch from COD, is it a good thing or a bad thing? I think it is bad. Also, I would like to see your reason why Halo should keep sprint.

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> > It just dawned on me. Ocarina of Time, widely considered to be one of the best games ever, had clamber. On the Nintendo 64. In 1998.
> >
> > Yeah it looked fairly janky by modern standards. But those are by modern standards. Back then no one was expecting ultra-smooth 60FPS animations, and I’m sure three years later on the Xbox it would’ve been improved considerably. Also, none of this seemed to concern them when they added vehicle boarding with only the bare minimum of animation. So color me unconvinced.
> >
> > Furthermore, tell me OoT isn’t an “immersive” game despite its dated visuals. Go on.
> >
> > And if you don’t like that argument then here’s some climbing from an Xbox era game. Wouldn’t say it’s too bad for that era.
> >
> > TLDR:
> > They damn well could’ve had clamber in Halo if they actually wanted to.
>
>
> I mean, so did Super Mario 64. It’s not like animating actions besids running and jumping is new in any way. That’s not really the point. The original argument which initiated this discussion was “gameplay will change as hardware changes”. It’s not really about whether we could implement mechanically similar abilities with less sophisticated animations if we wanted to, but it’s about the fact that better technology allows developers to implement richer motion and interaction for the player. As such, mechanics that rely heavily on animation become more attractive for developers as time goes on.
>
> You don’t have to like it or agree with the approach, but denying the fact that technology is a significant influence on gameplay design would just be silly.

Let’s keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand. If you want to make another post discussing other games and visuals as you are mentioning, do it there.

This thread is for discussing Sprint in Halo 5: Guardians

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> > > I just want to say one this. Gameplay back then in the older games was limited to what you could do because of hardware limitations. Now we have allot more options in what we can do. You guys are telling me, when they can plug you into the computer like the matrix, you’re gonna still want to walk at the same speed at all times? If you said yes to that then I guess you guys are also the type that enjoys Minecraft for hours on end.
> > >
> > > Gameplay will change as hardware changes. They are parallel with each other. If you wanted the same halo as back in the day then that’s what you guys should ask for. Maybe they should support halo 2 and just keep coming out with DLC’s to add on to the game for you guys that can’t stop complaining about what the company is doing. “I don’t like sprint” “I don’t like armor abilities” “I don’t like the new weapon skins” “I don’t like anything that’s new or remotely innovative”.
> > >
> > > The thing is 343 isn’t making the game just for you. They have to sell this game to the new generations as well. Adding new features is a method of doing that. As soon as sprint is removed, I guarantee there would be allot more of an uproar.
> >
> >
> > Okay then, what kind of technological marvel has been developed in the last two decades that enable the mechanics we see today?
>
>
> Umm, what? You seemed to have missed the point. The thing is you highlighted it yourself. “GAMEPLAY” doesn’t isolate it to mechanics. Gameplay is everything, physics, mechanics, graphics, movements, animations and more. That’s everything.
>
> But highlight two sentences out of a post and make that your argument when there’s a whole point to be made. That’s called selective reading.

Ah I’m sorry, here I was thinking we were talking about gameplay mechanics ala sprint, clamber and other player controlled features / mechanics in a thread about a player mechanic. You know, that sort of gameplay. Really my bad…

Okay, let’s look at the Italics then.
First paragraph, that’s an assumption meant being somewhat of an insult. For the record, I like playing Minecraft.

Second paragraph, that’s a “go back to old Halos” worded differently when it has been established time and again that many dislike the direction, not change overall.
“But then you’d complain that what you got wasn’t how you wanted it”.
Well if I order a hardboiled egg and get it scrambled of course I’m going to complain, because it wasn’t how I wanted it.
“You’ll just complain to complain either way because you got an egg”
You know me sooo well…

I don’t see how an insultory assumption and a poor generalisation and with a poor solution is of any relevancy to the point that was being made, hardware. So I chose to leave it out, so yes, selective reading. Unless of course the point was an attempt at being insulting, generalising and providing a poor solution, in which case I apologise for picking out the unrelated “hardware” talk.

Then there’s the third paragraph. Well this does sum up the AAA market at the moment.
Attract an audience with interesting game mechanics rather than interest the audience with attractive gameplay.
Perhaps there’d be an uproar, perhaps not, probably depends on what’s the trend at that point because i343 has shown to be quite adept at following trends.

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> > I’ve been playing since CE, and I don’t know if I could find the game playable again if they removed Sprint. I like everything they’ve done in Halo 5, but Sprint needs to stay. Halo 3 felt so slow in the MCC after playing Reach and 4 I don’t think I could stand it if the game returned to the old settings.
>
>
> Halo 3 has the same base player speed as Halo CE and Halo 2, the reason it feels slow is because of the low field of view and lower player acceleration. Also Reach has a lower base player speed than CE-3.

What exactly was the point of saying that? He pretty much just said why he liked sprint. Which isn’t " invalid", so I can only assume you pretty much just wanted to put him down.

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Do you prefer Mario Kart or Forza?
Now use your most important opinion to pick which is one is Halo and which one isn’t.
OK, now let’s argue till the end of freaking time about it…

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> > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes
> >
> >
> > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > #readthefallofthereach
>
>
> We can have a base movement of 60mph right?

You know pretty well that Spartans are able to run incredibly fast. Having your character move like a brick like in halo 3 is just terrible.

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> > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes
> > >
> > >
> > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > #readthefallofthereach
> >
> >
> > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
>
>
> “No, we need more cod fans, screw OG halo” translated from “If you remove sprint people will leave halo needed to modernize anyway”

Son, I’ve been a Halo fan since the OG came out back in the day. It is not about modernizing the game, it is about evolving it. I complain everyday about things that need to be fixed in the game, gameplay mechanics is the least of our problems right now.

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> > > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > > #readthefallofthereach
> > >
> > >
> > > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
> >
> >
> > “No, we need more cod fans, screw OG halo” translated from “If you remove sprint people will leave halo needed to modernize anyway”
>
>
> Son, I’ve been a Halo fan since the OG came out back in the day. It is not about modernizing the game, it is about evolving it. I complain everyday about things that need to be fixed in the game, gameplay mechanics is the least of our problems right now.

Also, I dont play Cod, Ive never even bought a cod game.

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> > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes
> > >
> > >
> > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > #readthefallofthereach
> >
> >
> > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
>
>
> You know pretty well that Spartans are able to run incredibly fast. Having your character move like a brick like in halo 3 is just terrible.

Halo doesn’t need sprint to make game faster and I would prefer slow gameplay like Halo 3 than being fast like others.

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> > > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > > #readthefallofthereach
> > >
> > >
> > > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
> >
> >
> > You know pretty well that Spartans are able to run incredibly fast. Having your character move like a brick like in halo 3 is just terrible.
>
>
> Halo doesn’t need sprint to make game faster and I would prefer slow gameplay like Halo 3 than being fast like others.

To each their own I guess. Just try to get used to it because sprint is not leaving. It is just funny how there are 300+ pages on this thread and you guys dont realize sprint is not going anywhere. The best solution is to make classic playlists for multiplayer. Sadly, 343 are lazy and probably wont do them. (I miss h2 gameplay sometimes)

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Can’t say I understand this campaign at all. Especially with all the potential of Halo AND all of it’s failings that need to be fixed.

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> > > > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > > > #readthefallofthereach
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
> > >
> > >
> > > You know pretty well that Spartans are able to run incredibly fast. Having your character move like a brick like in halo 3 is just terrible.
> >
> >
> > Halo doesn’t need sprint to make game faster and I would prefer slow gameplay like Halo 3 than being fast like others.
>
>
> To each their own I guess. Just try to get used to it because sprint is not leaving. It is just funny how there are 300+ pages on this thread and you guys dont realize sprint is not going anywhere. The best solution is to make classic playlists for multiplayer. Sadly, 343 are lazy and probably wont do them. (I miss h2 gameplay sometimes)

It’s funnier how you’re so convinced sprint isn’t going anywhere. One look at the history of the franchise and it becomes more and more obvious that sprint will take its leave in the not too distant future. How many gameplay mechanics have stood the test of time? Weapons, grenades and melee seem to be the main, if not only, constants. Perhaps there are others, but not very many at all. Sprint’s been around longer than most other tried mechanics and it’s been continually altered so that it’s becoming less impactful on the game, so how long until it’s removed completely? Throw in how games are once again moving away from it in favor of faster paced gameplay and that’s even more reason why it won’t be around for long.

Not only does sprint make no sense for the gameplay, but it also makes no sense to think it will be here much longer.

6116

Sprint really isnt a problem for Halo. It’s great for the game as it adds a lot more layers with mobility and strategy around changing pace for both aggressive and defensive play.

The problem comes with the shoulder charge though. This just shouldnt be a thing as it rewards wreckless play far too well. You constantly get people whose entire game plan is based on sprinting at people and then pressing rb. It’s not skillfull or strategic and its not really that good for the game. Its just really damn annoying and it doesnt really feel like its been well thought out in its design.

I would like for them to keep sprint but drop shoulder charge.

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> Sprint really isnt a problem for Halo. It’s great for the game as it adds a lot more layers with mobility and strategy around changing pace for both aggressive and defensive play.

Sprint literally changes the very core of Halo. It changes the game from something that blends movement and combat to a game that separates movement from combat.

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> Do you prefer Mario Kart or Forza?
> Now use your most important opinion to pick which is one is Halo and which one isn’t.
> OK, now let’s argue till the end of freaking time about it…

One has very abstract and unique design.
The other pursues realism to the point of being far less interesting to actually play in comparison.
Problem most modern games I see suffer from…

Classic Halo is Mario Kart.
CoD is Forza.
Modern Halo is like if you took Mario Kart, removed all the tracks that are similar to Rainbow Road, and turned all the powerups into guns.

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> > Do you prefer Mario Kart or Forza?
> > Now use your most important opinion to pick which is one is Halo and which one isn’t.
> > OK, now let’s argue till the end of freaking time about it…
>
>
> One has very abstract and unique design.
> The other pursues realism to the point of being far less interesting to actually play in comparison.
> Problem most modern games I see suffer from…
>
> Classic Halo is Mario Kart.
> CoD is Forza.
> Modern Halo is like if you took Mario Kart, removed all the tracks that are similar to Rainbow Road, and turned all the powerups into guns.

I selected this example for a reason since it’s something you can spin many ways and just to flip your example, Mario Kart is new Halo with abilites working like power ups and classic Halo is Forza since it’s a pure driving sim.

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> > > > > > > > Funny how people still debate over this lol
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > yeah I agree, it’s baffling to see people still defending sprint right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dude, sprint is good for halo, shadap. Kelly runs at 60mph no sweat
> > > > > #readthefallofthereach
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We can have a base movement of 60mph right?
> > >
> > >
> > > You know pretty well that Spartans are able to run incredibly fast. Having your character move like a brick like in halo 3 is just terrible.
> >
> >
> > Halo doesn’t need sprint to make game faster and I would prefer slow gameplay like Halo 3 than being fast like others.
>
>
> To each their own I guess. Just try to get used to it because sprint is not leaving. It is just funny how there are 300+ pages on this thread and you guys dont realize sprint is not going anywhere. The best solution is to make classic playlists for multiplayer. Sadly, 343 are lazy and probably wont do them. (I miss h2 gameplay sometimes)

That is why we are here to change 343’s mind and change the Halo. It’s funny to see that people defend sprint for no reason.

6121

agreed