The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > I can see both sides of this coin and I believe your seeing this shift because since Halo first came out you’ve seen this explosion of FPS games which I feel has completely diluted the genera (Call of Duty…cough…cough…cough). As much as you would not want to admit that this resulted in said mechanics introduced, your wrong. Pretty much every game in some way shape or form is adapting another’s concept or trying to one up each other to compete. As much as Halo has stayed true to itself (and it has done a much better job compared to other franchises) your going to see these trends continue. With every shooter going to this “Freedom of Movement” shift where were everything is about wall running, Zero G or some sort of up tempo Combat, Halo in the current market must adapt. That’s why we saw thrusters added to Halo 5 (Reach did have em but they were USELESS). This is where the FPS trends are going, but until I see 343I add something like “wall-running” into the mix, that’s when ill take up issue with the direction of the game.
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> > > > > > First off, Reach didn’t introduce thrusters. It introduced Evade and H4 changed it to thrusters so it could be used mid-air and prevent the user from being almost impossible to headshot.
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> > > > > > Secondly, why do you accept the change in direction and focus on movement options (even at the expense of weapons usage) but draw the line at wall-running? What makes wall-running and worse than something like thrusters or Sprint?
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> > > >
> > > > “Completely outside the realm of the game”? What does that mean?
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> > > > What impacts would wall-running have on gameplay that Sprint doesn’t already do?
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> Man cannons, vehicles were built into the game on its onset. The game also had teleporters to instantly get you to one area to the map in an instant. Vehicle combat is also another element which was also built into Halo right from the beginning. But where are you primarily engaging from? Boots on the Ground with your primary weapon. Do I need to spell it out for you?? The level design to accommodate wall running would be far more impactful vs sprint, it would be common sense to completely design your maps around such a mechanic, as I mentioned. You would have to base all maps around that mechanic, name one Halo map that could be used for wall running in its current state? If you want to argue common sense, then you clearly lack it.

Man cannons weren’t introduced until H3, I don’t believe. Regardless, you somewhat reinforced my point with your “boots on the ground with your primary weapon” remark. With Sprint, half of that is limited while the other is outright disabled.

You mentioned that wall-running would require changes to map design. I didn’t say that was incorrect, I asked you to detail what perceived changes would need to be made and how they “are more impactful” than the changes that can be attributed to Sprint. You haven’t elaborated, but instead decided to insult me.

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> > Those that say they like Sprint usually cite the “tactical thinking” & “strategy” that they feel it brings to the game and don’t seem bothered by the limits the mechanic puts on players
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> I won’t torment you with yet another Ce rant, but to me it comes down to a fundamental difference in game design philosophy.
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> It doesn’t bother them because these people think that strategy can only be created by putting limits on the individual player and forcing the player to either weigh risky options or work with their team to overcome those limits. It is the basic principle that class-based shooters are founded on.
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> And I obviously think that’s bull -Yoink-. Well, actually I think it’s somewhat true but not the full truth. Strategies can also form as a result of empowering the player instead of limiting them.
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> They see it in terms of “Sprint presents a risk, which creates multiple options to be weighed, which creates strategy”. Yet they don’t see it in terms of “being able to go here with my guns up will allow me to execute this plan I’ve formed in my head, while having no gun access would prevent the plan from coming to fruition”.
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> I.e. they see how limiting the player can create strategy, yet they don’t realize how it can also kill strategy.

Then the potential strategies are a washout… For every super-hypothetical situation you come up with where sprint is a detriment there can be one where sprint is the enabler.

Also, you say that empowerment can breed strategy… Isn’t sprinting an empowerment? the ability to move fast than normal? There are a number of games that use boosting speed as part of strategies (like… just about every racing game I think).

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> > “On larger maps when you spawn away from the epicenter of engagement it’s hard to walk there even on-”
> > 1. That’s kind of the point. Control vehicles and avoid that situation.
> > 2. -Yoinking!-…Idk…maybe…adjust the spawn system? Come on, you stated the solution in your own complaint.
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>
> Another thing. Why do all these examples fall back on this argument of not being able to catch up to your team?
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> -If you’re constantly out of reach of your teammates then either you’re not following them adequately, or they are over-extending.
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> -If a team is caught over-extending them they should be punished for doing so.
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> -Furthermore, should people even be able to constantly catch up to their teammates? Imagine you’re playing an objective mode like oddball, and you kill three of the enemy team and you’re pursuing the guy who has the oddball. Would you really want those people to spawn in and instantly be able to back up the guy carrying the oddball? They should be punished for dying, and you should be rewarded for killing them.

“Should” is a policy statement. Why should players be punished? I don’t think overextending is much in argument as that brings up the fundamentals of the game- tactics, shooting, etc, but objective games are more interesting. Its about balancing the gameplay- you kill the enemy and earn yourself the right to get at the objective while they respawn, buying yourself some time unopposed. This is pretty standard for Halo. But when you have the opposing team spawning so far away there is a sense of helplessness for some players, and a sense of unfairness (when the game chooses your spawn for you). This is alleviated by being able to sprint- both mechanically as well as psychologically. If sprint allows players to get back into the action faster than should be happening increase the spawn time by a second or two and allow them to sprint back into the fray.

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> Then the potential strategies are a washout…

I can live with that. So long as you at the very least realize that I feel I’ve done my job.

> super-hypothetical

Any situation where you need to fight while pushing forward or being on the move.
I wouldn’t consider such situations “super-hypothetical”.

> Isn’t sprinting an empowerment?

Have I not spent tons of posts explaining why it isn’t?

Egh I can already seeing this devolving into semantics and subjective interpretation.
You being the one who thinks perks give people a bonus on top of a player’s default stats.
Me being the one who thinks perks force players to choose one of many stats that should just be default.
Until someone eventually comes in, knocks the glass off the table, and tells us to shut up about whether its half-empty or half-full.

> the ability to move fast than normal?

What defines normal speed, and why must moving faster than normal come with an attached downside? Because limitations?

You could say Bunnyhopping is faster than normal in Quake, unless you consider it to be the normal speed in itself, in which case giant shrug I don’t even know what to say.

> Why should players be punished?

Because they made a mistake. Is it not the foundation of competitive gameplay that people aren’t rewarded for making mistakes?

> . But when you have the opposing team spawning so far away there is a sense of helplessness for some players, and a sense of unfairness (when the game chooses your spawn for you). This is alleviated by being able to sprint- both mechanically as well as psychologically.

Mechanically, I’ve already addressed that point. Several times. Skin-Than-Cat-Way-More-One-To. Bla.

Psychologically…long, exasperated sigh. My only counter-argument to that line of thinking is why are my own psychological views not treated with the same validity?

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
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> > > > > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
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> > > > > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
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> > > > > > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
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> > > > > > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
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> > > > > > > why not?
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> > > > > > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
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> > > > >
> > > > > whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> > > > > Sounds like nonsense to me.
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> > > >
> > > > I said trying to walk around the larger maps (not sprinting) puts you at a disadvantage because you can’t get to cover fast enough. (ie. Bottom of Truth)
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> > > > What everyone else means is that when you sprint, you are vulnerable in the sense that you are unable to shoot back and are forced into a single direction.
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>
> So are you talking about all maps? or just the big ones? Because if its ALL maps that are larger, then we’re back to having two contradictory statements and pure hilarity.
> Either sprinting leaves you vulnerable because you don’t have your gun up (presumably as you go for cover?), or not sprinting leaves you vulnerable because you don’t reach cover fast enough.
>
> Really what this looks like is an issue with players not liking the direction of the halo games and looking for ways to “prove” that their preference is really objective fact, hence the different explanations for why sprint is lame.

Majority of the arena maps. Those statements are not contradictory. You are at a disadvantage while sprinting because if you get shot at, you can’t shoot back and are forced into a single direction, and if you don’t sprint, you would be moving to slow and would be picked off much faster. Try not sprinting on full games of Truth, Eden, Stasis, Coliseum, Fathom, and I guarantee you are at a disadvantage because you cannot get around the maps fast enough.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members ro purposely bypass the word filter.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

And in this forum you will see a fine individual of a common species, the “Flaming Idiot”, coupled with their inability to understand what a super soldier is, they’re also known to vehemently blow at halo and instead start threads provoking the developers own game. A common deterrent is responding to their shrieks of unintelligent rants with a simple “how about you -Yoinking!- do it yourself you fetal c_nt” although be prepared for a snarl back, as they tend to rely on your mom jokes and pointing out grammatical errors in a futal attempt to insult you. Do not be alarmed, they cause no threat whatsoever, liken to the common housfly if you will. It is the matured version of a “Squeaker”, in the sole meaning of matured as in these little sh_ts have been breathing too long. Now on to the next exhibit, where we shall see a cousin to the “flaming idiot”, the “sloppy sh_tbag” where their rants target the ADS feature…

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I’m converting to the get rid of sprint camp. I stopped playing the game a while back for a few reasons. The game as a whole is really good but no longer quite so unique. It’s fun but because I feel like I have played it before I didn’t really sink my teeth in like I did with previous titles. I genuinely feel now every spartan ability except thrusters should be removed. Halo is now starting to compete with other shooters for fans because it offers a more similar experience. If we could take the current game, slice out abilities and reqs (keep warzone as a class-based game mode like conquest from Star Wars Battlefront 2) and buff up the content, we would have an absolute winner of a game.

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Sprint has been in games Before Halo CE. Halo CE decided to be different and exclude sprint. New halo games are adding sprint back to pacify the whiners which makes this game a common fps ultimately, boring. We need new creative developers that knows how to think outside of COD.

“Kids love sprinting” fact! hint, hint.

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The removal of 343 will make Halo great again.

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> Sprint has been in games Before Halo CE. Halo CE decided to be different and exclude sprint. New halo games are adding sprint back to pacify the whiners which makes this game a common fps ultimately, boring. We need new creative developers that knows how to think outside of COD.
>
> “Kids love sprinting” fact! hint, hint.

I love that. FPS devs need to start thinking outside the COD.

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> This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members ro purposely bypass the word filter.
>
> *Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> And in this forum you will see a fine individual of a common species, the “Flaming Idiot”, coupled with their inability to understand what a super soldier is, they’re also known to vehemently blow at halo and instead start threads provoking the developers own game. A common deterrent is responding to their shrieks of unintelligent rants with a simple “how about you -Yoinking!- do it yourself you fetal c_nt” although be prepared for a snarl back, as they tend to rely on your mom jokes and pointing out grammatical errors in a futal attempt to insult you. Do not be alarmed, they cause no threat whatsoever, liken to the common housfly if you will. It is the matured version of a “Squeaker”, in the sole meaning of matured as in these little sh_ts have been breathing too long. Now on to the next exhibit, where we shall see a cousin to the “flaming idiot”, the “sloppy sh_tbag” where their rants target the ADS feature…

Here, you see the perfect example of toxicity in the halo community. All your doing is reinforcing the idea that people that are pro sprint don’t know what their talking about

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> > Sprint has been in games Before Halo CE. Halo CE decided to be different and exclude sprint. New halo games are adding sprint back to pacify the whiners which makes this game a common fps ultimately, boring. We need new creative developers that knows how to think outside of COD.
> >
> > “Kids love sprinting” fact! hint, hint.
>
>
> I love that. FPS devs need to start thinking outside the COD.

Some are.

Unfortunately 343 is one of the least innovative, forward thinking AAA devs out there.

They’re obsessed with “what players expect”.

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> > Isn’t sprinting an empowerment?
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>
> Egh I can already seeing this devolving into semantics and subjective interpretation.

Aren’t people’s problems with sprint just semantics and subjective interpretation?

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> > > Isn’t sprinting an empowerment?
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> >
> > Egh I can already seeing this devolving into semantics and subjective interpretation.
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> Aren’t people’s problems with sprint just semantics and subjective interpretation?

You know, your preference for Halo over other AAA shooters is all semantics and subjective interpretation. You decided to come here, you’ll just have to live with it.

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> > > > Isn’t sprinting an empowerment?
> > >
> > >
> > > Egh I can already seeing this devolving into semantics and subjective interpretation.
> >
> >
> > Aren’t people’s problems with sprint just semantics and subjective interpretation?
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>
> You know, your preference for Halo over other AAA shooters is all semantics and subjective interpretation. You decided to come here, you’ll just have to live with it.

At least I don’t pretend to be an expert on video game mechanics.

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> > > > > Isn’t sprinting an empowerment?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Egh I can already seeing this devolving into semantics and subjective interpretation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Aren’t people’s problems with sprint just semantics and subjective interpretation?
> >
> >
> > You know, your preference for Halo over other AAA shooters is all semantics and subjective interpretation. You decided to come here, you’ll just have to live with it.
>
>
> At least I don’t pretend to be an expert on video game mechanics.

you don’t have to have a university degree in this stuff to have an opinion…
I’m not a trained cook but I can cook meals that don’t make you want to puke, I’m not a professional race driver but I can drive a car without causing an accident, I’m not a judge but I know that torturing someone is against the law and I’m not a videogame dev but can tell you that sprint caused many changes with the way Halo played and I don’t like them, I might not know how to write a code to create a game but it’s really not that hard to use your brain and thing about ceratin aspects of a game…

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> > It would take forever to move around maps
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> Unless of course, they increased base movement speed to be the same as sprint speed. Or scaled down the maps.

What about the Warzone maps etc.

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> > > It would take forever to move around maps
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> >
> > Unless of course, they increased base movement speed to be the same as sprint speed. Or scaled down the maps.
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> What about the Warzone maps etc.

Scale them down.

They’re too big as it is. Huge open areas that just promote camping far away with a long range weapon.

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We need a classic playlist with classic maps In halo 5 if I don’t sprint I fell too slow for the big maps,but if I sprint my gun is down and I’ll get killed because of that.

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> We need a classic playlist with classic maps In halo 5 if I don’t sprint I fell too slow for the big maps,but if I sprint my gun is down and I’ll get killed because of that.

Plus it doesn’t feel like halo at all pretty much. :frowning: