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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > why not?
> > >
> > >
> > > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
> >
> >
> > whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> >
> > Sounds like nonsense to me.
>
>
> No, just a lose lose situation. Sprint, and the maps designed to accommodate Sprint, will put the player in a position of vulnerability no matter what they do.
ha! very good.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > >
> > >
> > > why not?
> >
> >
> > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
>
>
> whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> Sounds like nonsense to me.
I said trying to walk around the larger maps (not sprinting) puts you at a disadvantage because you can’t get to cover fast enough. (ie. Bottom of Truth)
What everyone else means is that when you sprint, you are vulnerable in the sense that you are unable to shoot back and are forced into a single direction.
> 2533274855279867;5897:
> > 2533274819567236;5863:
> > 1. It’s not nonsense. Maps are built for a single, constant sprint speed, but you’re not always moving at sprint speed. Not hard to understand.
> >
> > 2. Like I said, it tends to happen more now.
> >
> > 3. Yep, but that’s not how it works and that’s not the only problem.
> >
> > 4. Yeah, you were less defenseless in Halo 2. Sprint locks you into the direction you’re running. In Halo 2, it would often be unwise to move and look in the same direction because enemies could come from a number of directions. You could move at the maximum speed and defend yourself.
> >
> > 5. Because it’s not uncommon for thruster to be used to get behind cover quickly. More cover lets that happen more (which actually more frequently allows you to engage in sprint to flee). Not that it’s particularly relevant here, I was basically pointing out the side effect of a side effect.
> >
> > 6. Getting rid of the ability to spawn traps would consequently introduce unpredictable spawns which would work against players just as much as it would work for them. People don’t like when enemies spawn behind them, it’s not fun and unfair. Spawn manipulation isn’t something that can be fixed unless you adjust player movement. You can adjust pathways on the map, but player speed will offset that, which is why the map would have to be made bigger.
> >
> > 7. I can’t believe so many seemingly active readers/posters in this thread seem to just not know about any of the issues that have been discussed already.
>
>
> 1. Your wording is nonsensical. To say that maps are designed around sprint (being that they are larger, have more cover etc) then to say that players are not moving at intended speeds is nonsense. The players move at the exact speeds the devs intended, as all speeds are likely taken into account when maps are designed and tested. I’m not sure what point youre trying to make.
>
> 4. Do we know if side stepping is the same speed as moving forward in h2? I’ve never tested. If not, then any deviation from moving straight would not be maximum speed. Still, given control schemes, even if speed is constant regardless of orientation, looking left and right results in movement not in a straight line. Travel time is thus longer when moving caustiously even in games without sprint. The difference is much less, I’m sure, but on principle its the same issue you say sprint causes.
>
> 6. How so? There are plenty of solutions to spawning that would not produce random spawns.
>
> 7. I get ya. It can be frustrating to feel the need to constantly repeat yourself. I’m a teacher, I get it all the time.
-
They could make the map whatever size they want, just because it’s the speed they you’re intended to go doesn’t make it the speed you should be going for the way the map is designed. 343 are not smart developers, so I wouldn’t expect them to know that.
-
Not sure. Going backwards is a tiny bit slower, but I’m not sure about side stepping. Regardless, if there is a difference, it’s so minuscule that it doesn’t even matter.
-
And keep spawns from being manipulated easier? Then tell me some of the solutions. Keep in mind we’re talking about maps built for base speed in a game with sprint (ex: imagine adding sprint into default Halo 2).
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> > > > > > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > > > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @TheNightEcho
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you played CE through 3? Because if you had you would know that Doom’s speed is faster than those games, and the meta is completely different than halo’s.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes I played the OT and the guy was saying running at a higher bms with a shotgun isn’t op and I used Doom as an example like every anti-sprinter does and and then he talks about an old map. Also our discussion was on the future of Halo not the past.
> >
> >
> > Dooms weapons are balanced differently than Halos weapons. Can’t say I’m surprised you’re also unaware of that.
>
>
> So are CoD’s but everyone keeps saying Halo is just like CoD!
You’re just rambling at this point. No one here even brought up COD, and now you’re trying to change the subject.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > why not?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
> > >
> > >
> > > whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> > >
> > > Sounds like nonsense to me.
> >
> >
> > No, just a lose lose situation. Sprint, and the maps designed to accommodate Sprint, will put the player in a position of vulnerability no matter what they do.
>
>
> ha! very good.
That’s not even the best part. Because players are vulnerable to an attack that they can, in some cases, not fight back against or run away from, the game becomes less about outshooting your opponent and more about being in the right place at the right time. The only way to make sure you’ve got the best chance of survival is to sprint through the tighter areas of the map and take advantage of the Spartan charge. This is easily done thanks to the tiny motion tracker.
BR starts will make halo, halo again… still cant have fun with this game for long periods of time cause of the starting weaons
> 2533274807970710;5907:
> BR starts will make halo, halo again… still cant have fun with this game for long periods of time cause of the starting weaons
I prefer them as pickups, they have more value as weapons compared to the AR. Plus you have the magnum anyways and that is still a good option for ranged combat.
> 2533274849452225;5908:
> > 2533274807970710;5907:
> > BR starts will make halo, halo again… still cant have fun with this game for long periods of time cause of the starting weaons
>
>
> I prefer them as pickups, they have more value as weapons compared to the AR. Plus you have the magnum anyways and that is still a good option for ranged combat.
They do have more value but I promise you thats ONE of the reasons why halo will never peak again like in halo 3. no 1-50 ranks, no BR starts (which was the main weapon of MLG before being replaced with the DMR in halo reach which destroyed halo esports), things are still unbalanced, to much abilities, etc. Theres a reason why halo 2 and 3 logged in the most hours of any game period! The classic formula and competitive feel of the game was key. its definitely changed too much. players like me from back in 2002 are no longer as enticed to the game but well still play. you wont catch me devoting days, months, nonstop playing to it tho. Im usually over it within a hour and the magnum replacing the BR is one of the things that hurt this game the most for me. I would compete in the Freeforall GB tournaments for halo 5 as much as i could just to have a BR start and I had more fun in those games than ALL the games ive played in matchmaking period. got some money too which was cool
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > >
> > >
> > > why not?
> >
> >
> > Because when you design a map, you design the length of sections based on a players movement speed, unless you only move at the speed the devs designed that section for, removing your ability to do what you want and play the game. The section will either be too big or too small. When you have one speed, everything is scaled to that speed. Hence the games with sprint not having any specifically amazing maps compared to ce/3 maps like the pit, guardian,waterworks,blood gulch,and sidewinder
>
>
> All those maps were designed with variable speeds in the game. Movement has always been analog, crouch walking and vehicles all provide multiple speeds to traverse a map.
>
> Sounds like your taking the fact maps have varied between mediocre and crap and attributed it to sprint. It could just be that 343 sucks at map design.
Having crouch speed dosn’t need scaling, it’s slower than the speed the map is scaled for and still allows shooting making it fine. Sprint has maps scaled at a pace your not moving while in combat.
> 2533274819567236;5885:
> > 2533274808669104;5878:
> > > 2533274813551244;5876:
> > > You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
> > >
> > > It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
> > >
> > > Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
> > >
> > > Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
> >
> >
> > I have a large list around page 150. Here is the condensed version.
> >
> > - Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
> > - It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
> > - It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations.
> > - Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
> > - Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
> > - Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective. This is tied into the golden triangle argument (begins mid video) as well as the movement discussion. Instead of seeing what works best for the game 343 has taken the Josh Holmes approach- “Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.”. Simply backwards thinking.
> > - It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant
> > Oh, I know what the ladies like - SJ
>
>
> I think the problem with making lists like this will be that they don’t explain much. It tells people what’s bad, but not why, which would still leave us in the same position as we’re in now where people don’t think any of that matters. In that respect I don’t know that a quick summary of issues would do much if posted in the OP at this point.
Thank you xXconkriete for making a list so fast. I agree with Zr0Fear, there needs to be a bit more, a complete list with explanations so people can see that on the OPs post. I asked you Zr0Fear because you have been here and have always kept your cool even though we are fighting an uphill battle on this case. Thank you for considering doing this, I know it would take you a lot of time and effort and I don’t take that for granted.
I truly hope that OP is still around and can be reached with personal message so we can make this work.
> 2533274813551244;5911:
> > 2533274819567236;5885:
> > > 2533274808669104;5878:
> > > > 2533274813551244;5876:
> > > > You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
> > > >
> > > > It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
> > > >
> > > > Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
> > > >
> > > > Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a large list around page 150. Here is the condensed version.
> > >
> > > - Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
> > > - It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
> > > - It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations.
> > > - Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
> > > - Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
> > > - Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective. This is tied into the golden triangle argument (begins mid video) as well as the movement discussion. Instead of seeing what works best for the game 343 has taken the Josh Holmes approach- “Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.”. Simply backwards thinking.
> > > - It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant
> > > Oh, I know what the ladies like - SJ
> >
> >
> > I think the problem with making lists like this will be that they don’t explain much. It tells people what’s bad, but not why, which would still leave us in the same position as we’re in now where people don’t think any of that matters. In that respect I don’t know that a quick summary of issues would do much if posted in the OP at this point.
>
>
> Thank you xXconkriete for making a list so fast. I agree with Zr0Fear, there needs to be a bit more, a complete list with explanations so people can see that on the OPs post. I asked you Zr0Fear because you have been here and have always kept your cool even though we are fighting an uphill battle on this case. Thank you for considering doing this, I know it would take you a lot of time and effort and I don’t take that for granted.
>
> I truly hope that OP is still around and can be reached with personal message so we can make this work.
The problem with doing a list on the effects of sprint is that we need to be extensive and people (especially the newer halo players) tend to like short and sweet, which sadly is unable to explain everything as we all wish we could.
> 2533274808669104;5912:
> > 2533274813551244;5911:
> > > 2533274819567236;5885:
> > > > 2533274808669104;5878:
> > > > > 2533274813551244;5876:
> > > > > You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have a large list around page 150. Here is the condensed version.
> > > >
> > > > - Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
> > > > - It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
> > > > - It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations.
> > > > - Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
> > > > - Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
> > > > - Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective. This is tied into the golden triangle argument (begins mid video) as well as the movement discussion. Instead of seeing what works best for the game 343 has taken the Josh Holmes approach- “Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.”. Simply backwards thinking.
> > > > - It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant
> > > > Oh, I know what the ladies like - SJ
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the problem with making lists like this will be that they don’t explain much. It tells people what’s bad, but not why, which would still leave us in the same position as we’re in now where people don’t think any of that matters. In that respect I don’t know that a quick summary of issues would do much if posted in the OP at this point.
> >
> >
> > Thank you xXconkriete for making a list so fast. I agree with Zr0Fear, there needs to be a bit more, a complete list with explanations so people can see that on the OPs post. I asked you Zr0Fear because you have been here and have always kept your cool even though we are fighting an uphill battle on this case. Thank you for considering doing this, I know it would take you a lot of time and effort and I don’t take that for granted.
> >
> > I truly hope that OP is still around and can be reached with personal message so we can make this work.
>
>
> The problem with doing a list on the effects of sprint is that we need to be extensive and people (especially the newer halo players) tend to like short and sweet, which sadly is unable to explain everything as we all wish we could.
I believe in people, I must if we hope to see something change. I know people who continue to play Halo 5 and possible the next game are smart people who can adapt the knowledge we have to offer if we hand it to them in a digestible form. I can and will not believe every pro-sprinter/Halo 5 player is like wizecracker117.
> 2533274808669104;5878:
> > 2533274813551244;5876:
> > You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
> >
> > It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
> >
> > Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
> >
> > Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
>
>
> I have a large list around page 150. Here is the condensed version.
>
> - Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
> - It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
> - It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations.
> - Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
> - Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
> - Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective. This is tied into the golden triangle argument (begins mid video) as well as the movement discussion. Instead of seeing what works best for the game 343 has taken the Josh Holmes approach- “Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.”. Simply backwards thinking.
> - It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant
> Oh, I know what the ladies like - SJ
I sent the op a PM with the link to this list.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5817:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5811:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > why not?
> > >
> > >
> > > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
> >
> >
> > whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> > Sounds like nonsense to me.
>
>
> I said trying to walk around the larger maps (not sprinting) puts you at a disadvantage because you can’t get to cover fast enough. (ie. Bottom of Truth)
>
> What everyone else means is that when you sprint, you are vulnerable in the sense that you are unable to shoot back and are forced into a single direction.
Then dont sprint on small maps? Dont walk on big? How is this a problem? I get that some might not like it, but its not an issue of the game being broken.
But to be clear, you did not specifically say large maps. You say “the map is too large” which could be referring to the notion that maps are increased in size to accomodate sprint.
> 2533274855279867;5915:
> > 2533274970658419;5903:
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> > > > 2533274970658419;5860:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5817:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5811:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5802:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > why not?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
> > >
> > >
> > > whats funny is you saying not sprinting makes you vulnerable and others in this thread saying sprinting leaves you vulnerable…
> > > Sounds like nonsense to me.
> >
> >
> > I said trying to walk around the larger maps (not sprinting) puts you at a disadvantage because you can’t get to cover fast enough. (ie. Bottom of Truth)
> >
> > What everyone else means is that when you sprint, you are vulnerable in the sense that you are unable to shoot back and are forced into a single direction.
>
>
> Then dont sprint on small maps? Dont walk on big? How is this a problem? I get that some might not like it, but its not an issue of the game being broken.
>
> But to be clear, you did not specifically say large maps. You say “the map is too large” which could be referring to the notion that maps are increased in size to accomodate sprint.
I was referring to how maps are scaled with sprint speed in mind, I probably should have been more clear. This was in response to your post asking why scaling to two different speeds doesn’t work.
> 2535414876585185;1:
> Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> Thoughts? :3
I wish this would happen but sadly 343 industries is making games to sell, not for enjoyment.
I loved the other halos without Sprint, but after they came out with halo reach and added Sprint, I was a little mad because it was a armor ability, and not part of your Spartan. In my opinion, it made the game more injoyable and made halo better.
BatmanMX77
MODed TEAM
> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
I agree. The current fps scene kinda requires sprint within its game play. 343 tried its best to keep halo fans happy, but you need to keep in mind that halo has been around for 15 years, a lot of the original player base won’t of played halo 5. For the franchise to continue 343, needed to bring in a new audience of players.
The introduction of sprint changed map size, Time to kill, gun fights, encouraged running away, map control, spawn killing, team work, and forced unfavorable abalitys into the game to acomidate sprint and this games time to kill. Basically sprint changed halo from a balanced team based arena shooter into call of duty in space. So yes the introduction of sprint negatively affected halos multiplayer. That’s a fact and the reason the halo franchise went south with the release of reach.
> 2535405816787866;5919:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> I agree. The current fps scene kinda requires sprint within its game play. 343 tried its best to keep halo fans happy, but you need to keep in mind that halo has been around for 15 years, a lot of the original player base won’t of played halo 5. For the franchise to continue 343, needed to bring in a new audience of players.
I’ve been playing since it first came out, post Halo 3 games all have had its different takes on new mechanics that are now present in the majority of games. (loadouts, armor abilities) that pretty much some embraced and other rejected. Personally I have enjoyed every Halo game released, all for different reasons. I’ve been active on this forum as I am pro sprint, but I do see why it’s also either loved or hated. This mechanic dose not take away from my enjoyment of the game but your seeing a fanbase both either enjoying (mostly new players) or feeling alienated (Older players). I agree with your statement that 343I has done for the most part a good job of keeping fans happy, as I have asked this question in many games where the majority of players that I have been online with; enjoy the game. But I do feel that the multiplayer focus has changed (Arena and Warzone versus BTB).
I can see both sides of this coin and I believe your seeing this shift because since Halo first came out you’ve seen this explosion of FPS games which I feel has completely diluted the genera (Call of Duty…cough…cough…cough). As much as you would not want to admit that this resulted in said mechanics introduced, your wrong. Pretty much every game in some way shape or form is adapting another’s concept or trying to one up each other to compete. As much as Halo has stayed true to itself (and it has done a much better job compared to other franchises) your going to see these trends continue. With every shooter going to this “Freedom of Movement” shift where were everything is about wall running, Zero G or some sort of up tempo Combat, Halo in the current market must adapt. That’s why we saw thrusters added to Halo 5 (Reach did have em but they were USELESS). This is where the FPS trends are going, but until I see 343I add something like “wall-running” into the mix, that’s when ill take up issue with the direction of the game.