> 2535466914543129;5861:
> > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> >
> >
> > @TheNightEcho
> >
> > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
>
>
> Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
Halo’s maps aren’t always designed for that. Look at Zanzibar.
> 2533274855279867;5857:
> > 2533274819567236;5853:
> > Increased BMS works better because it allows the player to move at the speed the maps are built for. Now, you may not realize it, but that is HUGE.
>
>
> actually, its nonsense. if a game has sprint and maps are designed around sprint (as well as any other movement options) then players are, in fact, moving at the speed the maps are built for.
>
>
> > Maps being built for sprint forces larger maps, which becomes a problem given how you’re not moving around the map as efficiently as you should be (it also creates more dead zones).
>
>
> maybe in practice. but this was true in all games. there were places of high intensity fighting and low. This is a map design issue, not a sprint issue.
>
>
> > Either you don’t sprint and get around slower or you sprint to get around normally, but you’re largely unable to fight back. It’s an unnecessary catch-22.
>
>
> thats easily fixed by allowing players to instantly come out of sprint when they fire their weapon. Spartan charge also remedies this.
>
>
>
>
> > Something else sprint causes is the inclusion of more cover and/or pathways. Being built for the sprint speed makes maps bigger, which also requires more cover to help offset being defenseless when in sprint in what would been open spaces.
>
>
> are you anyless defenseless when caught out in the open in h2? And if we allow for instantly coming out of sprint to fire where is the problem?
>
>
> > This is particularly bad in Halo 5 with thruster which is not a mechanic that goes well with an abundance of cover (though it would theoretically be fine in a game without sprint).
>
>
> How so? this sounds like preference presented as fact.
>
>
>
>
> > An increased BMS would eliminate those problem. You can’t just build the map for the base speed in a game with sprint either because it would screw up spawns (mostly through easier manipulation) and allow people to get back into the fight quicker than they should allowed to.
>
>
> Spawning issues are map design issues and can occur no matter what. I personally would like to see halo take on a dramatically different spawning philosophy where spawns are chosen by the player and in places where access by the opponent isnt possible. I get that spawn traps required skill and rewarded the better team… but they were not fun for many people. Getting rid of the issue might be better.
>
>
> > It could also potentially cause a snowball effect where it’s easier to capitalize on the enemy after killing them, by more quickly getting into power positions and getting power weapons. That’s why maps with sprint are made bigger: it offsets those potential problems. But they’re all problems that can be avoided without any of the poor side effects sprint has by just increasing the BMS.
> >
> > I’m definitely not getting into the weapons conversation again - another lengthy conversation I’ve had with you not long ago, mind you - so you can find and re-read those posts if you want that addressed again.
>
>
> the weapon issues are probably the most compelling though.
It’s not nonsense. Maps are built for a single, constant sprint speed, but you’re not always moving at sprint speed. Not hard to understand.
Like I said, it tends to happen more now.
Yep, but that’s not how it works and that’s not the only problem.
Yeah, you were less defenseless in Halo 2. Sprint locks you into the direction you’re running. In Halo 2, it would often be unwise to move and look in the same direction because enemies could come from a number of directions. You could move at the maximum speed and defend yourself.
Because it’s not uncommon for thruster to be used to get behind cover quickly. More cover lets that happen more (which actually more frequently allows you to engage in sprint to flee). Not that it’s particularly relevant here, I was basically pointing out the side effect of a side effect.
Getting rid of the ability to spawn traps would consequently introduce unpredictable spawns which would work against players just as much as it would work for them. People don’t like when enemies spawn behind them, it’s not fun and unfair. Spawn manipulation isn’t something that can be fixed unless you adjust player movement. You can adjust pathways on the map, but player speed will offset that, which is why the map would have to be made bigger.
I can’t believe so many seemingly active readers/posters in this thread seem to just not know about any of the issues that have been discussed already.
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> > > > > > 2535466914543129;5826:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5802:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
> > >
> > >
> > > He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
> > >
> > > You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
> >
> >
> > “He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
> >
> > “You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
> >
> > This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
> >
> > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> >
> > P.S.
> > Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
> > (BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
>
>
> You know what? Maybe you’re right. I’ll explain, but I’m not getting into another argument about it.
>
> Increased BMS works better because it allows the player to move at the speed the maps are built for. Now, you may not realize it, but that is HUGE. Maps being built for sprint forces larger maps, which becomes a problem given how you’re not moving around the map as efficiently as you should be (it also creates more dead zones). Either you don’t sprint and get around slower or you sprint to get around normally, but you’re largely unable to fight back. It’s an unnecessary catch-22.
>
> Something else sprint causes is the inclusion of more cover and/or pathways. Being built for the sprint speed makes maps bigger, which also requires more cover to help offset being defenseless when in sprint in what would been open spaces. This is particularly bad in Halo 5 with thruster which is not a mechanic that goes well with an abundance of cover (though it would theoretically be fine in a game without sprint).
>
> An increased BMS would eliminate those problem. You can’t just build the map for the base speed in a game with sprint either because it would screw up spawns (mostly through easier manipulation) and allow people to get back into the fight quicker than they should allowed to. It could also potentially cause a snowball effect where it’s easier to capitalize on the enemy after killing them, by more quickly getting into power positions and getting power weapons. That’s why maps with sprint are made bigger: it offsets those potential problems. But they’re all problems that can be avoided without any of the poor side effects sprint has by just increasing the BMS.
>
> I’m definitely not getting into the weapons conversation again - another lengthy conversation I’ve had with you not long ago, mind you - so you can find and re-read those posts if you want that addressed again.
OK now I can see where you guys are coming from on this, it makes a lot of sense and I can see what was missing in Halo 5 that I never noticed before since I did have a break on Halo between 4 and 5 and was playing games like Gears of War where cover and not shooting while sprinting are the norm. Next time I play I’ll see how it affects how i see the game.
> 2535471109694535;5864:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5802:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
> > > >
> > > > You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > “He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
> > >
> > > “You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
> > >
> > > This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
> > >
> > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > >
> > > P.S.
> > > Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
> > > (BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
> >
> >
> > You know what? Maybe you’re right. I’ll explain, but I’m not getting into another argument about it.
> >
> > Increased BMS works better because it allows the player to move at the speed the maps are built for. Now, you may not realize it, but that is HUGE. Maps being built for sprint forces larger maps, which becomes a problem given how you’re not moving around the map as efficiently as you should be (it also creates more dead zones). Either you don’t sprint and get around slower or you sprint to get around normally, but you’re largely unable to fight back. It’s an unnecessary catch-22.
> >
> > Something else sprint causes is the inclusion of more cover and/or pathways. Being built for the sprint speed makes maps bigger, which also requires more cover to help offset being defenseless when in sprint in what would been open spaces. This is particularly bad in Halo 5 with thruster which is not a mechanic that goes well with an abundance of cover (though it would theoretically be fine in a game without sprint).
> >
> > An increased BMS would eliminate those problem. You can’t just build the map for the base speed in a game with sprint either because it would screw up spawns (mostly through easier manipulation) and allow people to get back into the fight quicker than they should allowed to. It could also potentially cause a snowball effect where it’s easier to capitalize on the enemy after killing them, by more quickly getting into power positions and getting power weapons. That’s why maps with sprint are made bigger: it offsets those potential problems. But they’re all problems that can be avoided without any of the poor side effects sprint has by just increasing the BMS.
> >
> > I’m definitely not getting into the weapons conversation again - another lengthy conversation I’ve had with you not long ago, mind you - so you can find and re-read those posts if you want that addressed again.
>
>
> OK now I can see where you guys are coming from on this, it makes a lot of sense and I can see what was missing in Halo 5 that I never noticed before since I did have a break on Halo between 4 and 5 and was playing games like Gears of War where cover and not shooting while sprinting are the norm. Next time I play I’ll see how it affects how i see the game.
I half feel like this is a sarcastic post to make me feel stupid for initially not wanting to explain…
> 2684735135014023;5862:
> > 2535466914543129;5861:
> > > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > >
> > >
> > > @TheNightEcho
> > >
> > > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
> >
> >
> > Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
>
>
> Halo’s maps aren’t always designed for that. Look at Zanzibar.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > “He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
> > > >
> > > > “You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
> > > >
> > > > This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
> > > >
> > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > > >
> > > > P.S.
> > > > Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
> > > > (BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
> >
> >
> > OK now I can see where you guys are coming from on this, it makes a lot of sense and I can see what was missing in Halo 5 that I never noticed before since I did have a break on Halo between 4 and 5 and was playing games like Gears of War where cover and not shooting while sprinting are the norm. Next time I play I’ll see how it affects how i see the game.
>
>
> I half feel like this is a sarcastic post to make me feel stupid for initially not wanting to explain…
No this is 100% legit, even though that also sounds sarcastic, the points you made are things I didn’t take into consideration and acted like a lot of elements would transfer from Halo 5 to a nonsprint Halo 6. Now I can see some effects sprint has on the game. My standing on sprint is still the same, but now I think it needs to be heavily tweaked to minimize and or eliminate those effects.
Next time I play halo I will be looking out for these and see how it could be solved to keep sprint, and if it can’t well then I don’t know how I can defend sprint, regardless how much I like it.
> 2533274855279867;5837:
> sure you can. grey is in between black and white. just in this case the grey thst is sprint is not an even blend.
>
> you also oversimplify the issue, which leads to the empasse youre describing. One such compromise could have different move sets for campaign and multiplayer (this worked brilliantly in Splinter Cell 2 and 3)… or for arena and warzone. 343s current compromise seems to have tried to include sprint but in the least impactful way.
>
> Compromise fails when one or more sides refuse to concede anything, not because of the extremes of what is wanted. if it was impossible I’m sure the definition would make mention of it.
One extreme is black. The other one is white. Their “compromise” did not mix white and black to create gray but white and blue to create Alice.
Compromise did fail because one side refused to concede anything. It just wasn’t the anti-sprint side…
> 2535466914543129;5861:
> > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> >
> >
> > @TheNightEcho
> >
> > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
>
>
> Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
Doom also has smaller scaled maps with an op shotgun as a loadout weapon, the halo shotgun dosn’t have that much range
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
It’s so nice to see this thread still going. #MakeHaloGreatAgain
You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
> 2533274813551244;5876:
> You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
>
> It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
>
> Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
>
> Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
> 2533274813551244;5876:
> You guys who are fighting the good fight and explaining why sprint ruined Halos gameplay, remember this. Those who are claiming that they have no idea what is wrong with sprint and we are just making excuses when we’re not explaining it when they ask for the 200th time: they are probably trolls that just want to see you type a thousand word post again, wasting your time. Or they are really, really ignorant.
>
> It is one thing to have an opinion about sprint, claim that they like it and try to explain how it makes the gameplay better. It’s totally a different matter to claim time after time that they just don’t see enough explanations.
>
> Halo has changed. Is it a change me and a lot of other Halo player have enjoyed? Can’t say that we have. Are we trying to voice our concerns so the game takes a course for the better? That’s absolutely what we are trying to do.
>
> Zr0Fear v2, can you make a short list of the things that sprint affects and have the OP edit the first post? I think a lot of hate comes from that post only since it hasn’t been written all that well.
I have a large list around page 150. Here is the condensed version.
Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations.
Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective. This is tied into the golden triangle argument (begins mid video) as well as the movement discussion. Instead of seeing what works best for the game 343 has taken the Josh Holmes approach- “Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint.”. Simply backwards thinking.
It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificantOh, I know what the ladies like - SJ
> 2535466914543129;5866:
> > 2684735135014023;5862:
> > > 2535466914543129;5861:
> > > > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > @TheNightEcho
> > > >
> > > > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
> > >
> > >
> > > Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
> >
> >
> > Halo’s maps aren’t always designed for that. Look at Zanzibar.
>
>
> When will the hypocrisy end?!
Hypocrisy? I don’t see how that’s hypocritical. The shotgun in Halo was never a completely overpowered weapon. Not even the CE M90 was OP. (compared to the M6D). Halo 4 introduced the overpowered shotgun.
> 2684735135014023;5879:
> > 2535466914543129;5866:
> > > 2684735135014023;5862:
> > > > 2535466914543129;5861:
> > > > > 2533274970658419;5854:
> > > > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > @TheNightEcho
> > > > >
> > > > > My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo’s maps aren’t always designed for that. Look at Zanzibar.
> >
> >
> > When will the hypocrisy end?!
>
>
> Hypocrisy? I don’t see how that’s hypocritical. The shotgun in Halo was never a completely overpowered weapon. Not even the CE M90 was OP. (compared to the M6D). Halo 4 introduced the overpowered shotgun.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > “He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
> > > > >
> > > > > “You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
> > > > >
> > > > > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S.
> > > > > Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
> > > > > (BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
> > >
> > >
> > > OK now I can see where you guys are coming from on this, it makes a lot of sense and I can see what was missing in Halo 5 that I never noticed before since I did have a break on Halo between 4 and 5 and was playing games like Gears of War where cover and not shooting while sprinting are the norm. Next time I play I’ll see how it affects how i see the game.
> >
> >
> > I half feel like this is a sarcastic post to make me feel stupid for initially not wanting to explain…
>
>
> No this is 100% legit, even though that also sounds sarcastic, the points you made are things I didn’t take into consideration and acted like a lot of elements would transfer from Halo 5 to a nonsprint Halo 6. Now I can see some effects sprint has on the game. My standing on sprint is still the same, but now I think it needs to be heavily tweaked to minimize and or eliminate those effects.
>
> Next time I play halo I will be looking out for these and see how it could be solved to keep sprint, and if it can’t well then I don’t know how I can defend sprint, regardless how much I like it.
I appreciate you saying so. It’s rare anyone on either side comes to an understanding like that, so when someone does it’s quite refreshing.