<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Gotta love the arm chair devs in this thread.
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> > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > >
> > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > >
> > >
> > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> >
> >
> > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
>
>
> Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
>
> Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
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> > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> >
> >
> > Like how Luke compared 2 arena and a big/objective map to 3 straight arena maps. To add to Arc Trooper’s point, halo 2 wasn’t intended to be competitive and had a very broken system. It was almost an accident that it got so competitive. Halo 5 was made to be an arena shooter and vehicles break the arena gametypes, unless you’re playing big team. And they did even in Btb Halo:CE That’s why bungie brought in boarding, lock on rockets in halo 2. Because vehicles still broke the holy golden triangle.
> > In terms of sprinting and gunning. If that was the case they guns would have to be super inaccurate while sprinting to compensate for it, and that so uld breakthrough golden triangle. And then you’d complain that it’d unfair. So there’s really no winning with the an it-sprint crowd. If something happens in halo that isn’t exactly like or from Halo 2.
> > To address the map issue(s). It’s not a game mechanic’s fault that the maps are the same size or poorly designed. That’s straight up the Devs’ fault. And saying 'removing sprint fixes the issue waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah… " doesn’t actually fix the issue. Removing a game. Mechanic and keeping the same people who made the bad maps doesn’t magically fix the problem, the problem is still present. It just has less to work with now.
>
>
> Zanzibar is a 4v4 map. The reason that I picked it is to specifically showcase a map that used vehicles and was a different size than what is seen in Halo 5, but still plays fine in Halo 5’s “ideal” team size. Obviously it is impossible to know, but I would wager that Zanzibar would not work as a map in Halo 5. Sprint makes it impossible. Same with Lockout. Same with Beaver Creek. That’s why I picked those maps as examples. Sprint creates a certain set of rules that maps have to follow in order to maintain a decent state of play. That’s why you see all of Halo 5’s maps resembling each other so heavily.
Yes it had vehicles. They were rarely used in 4v4 matches because it was useless and a free death when the rockets were up. Zanzibar is a 4v4 objective map/Btb Map. There is a difference as it was made to be a 4v4 one flag and assault map. For 4vr slayer it is not good. Great camping/deathmatch Map, but not a Halo slayer map.
With lockout obviously sprint is going to be problematic, it’s a tight quarters map made for map control and camping. Not moving around and flanking. But lockout has been remade either the devs or community members in every single halo game and it worked in halo reach and Halo 4,both games had a sprint mechanic.
Battle Creek/Beaver Creek is a forge map remake in halo 5 and works actually really good. And it’s not a big map.
And I sprint doesn’t create a certain set of rules. I still. Move around truth and regret(worst map in halo history) without sprint. And do just fine usually better. The only times I sprint on those maps are when playing assault or ctf and need to get to one end fast.
Look at CoD, Battlefield, Battlefront, Crysis, and Rainbow Six, Gears of War, even Destiny, and theres more. All games with a sprint mechanic, all games with maps that work and require different strategies, maps that are large and maps that are small. All work great. Rainbow Six especially.
If sprint can work across multiple genres, it’s not the mechanics fault and doesn’t force players to play certain ways. It’s the Developers who didn’t make the maps differently.
A map id love to see remade for Halo 5 and maybe halo 6’s mechanics is Turf. Make it a little more vertical and wider obviously. But it’s a remake, not exactly the same as the original!
That’s what a remake is. Not a copy or throwback.
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> > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
>
>
> Some things yes, but not all of them.
>
> As an example, between sprint and sprint-like base-speed maps would be enlarged to some degree. But at least in the case of the latter it would be scaling the map in all directions instead of just stretching it.
You think so? It seems to me that they’re mostly scaled proportionally, with obviously the problem being that it’s all scaled to a speed you’re moving only some of the time.
is this thread even about sprint anymore
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> > > > #halo5isnthalo
> > >
> > >
> > > YET YOU PLAYED THE BETA
> >
> >
> > Dosn’t mean anything except for he bought the mcc and played the beta when it was available
>
>
> wouldn’t he have thought halo wasn’t halo during halo 4 and when he saw the beta gameplay if you dont look at beta gameplay before you play then it’s just plain stupidity and if he thought halo isnt halo why did he play the beta
Because he owned the mcc, got a chance at limited edition free stuff and gave it a shot. I don’t like cod, but I took the chance to use an extra beta code my friend had because betas are cool. Playing the beta means nothing
edit: why is not looking at beta gameplay for a free beta dumb, it was free, he saw it and gave it a shot. It’s not stupid to just play the game instead of watching it
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> > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > >
> > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > >
> > >
> > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> >
> >
> > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
>
>
> If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
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> > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > >
> > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> >
> >
> > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> >
> > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
>
>
> He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
>
> You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
“He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
“You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
P.S.
Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
(BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
this guy is crazy. sprint was a good idea
Sprint ruins what I have loved about halo. I miss the slower paced combat. and I hate Spartan charge with a passion. I would love it if sprint was entirely taken out of halo 6. And it would be awesome if halo 5 would add an arena mode with no sprinting.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > >
> > >
> > > Instead of just telling him it’s been explained multiple times, why not explain it to him. I made the exact same argument and received absolutely no explanation on why it was wrong.
> > >
> > > Take note that I made this argument when an increased BMS was first suggested.
> >
> >
> > He’s not some random that hasn’t been part of this discussion that’s asking this question. He’s been posting throughout this entire topic, which means he should be well aware of the answer to what he’s asking. Should I explain it again so we can go through this same conversation again in a week? No thanks.
> >
> > You’re another that has had much of this explained to you by myself and others, so you could say the same goes for you. And I remember they were rather lengthy arguments as well.
>
>
> “He’s been here long and probably HASN’T MISSED a single post in the last 293 pages, he should know already, but since it doesn’t exist I’m not going to explain it so that I cam say you won’t remember it.”
>
> “You’ve also been here long enough and I’m 100% sure you’ve read every single post as well as him, so you’re in the same boat. I’m sure you also didn’t notice that no one has answered this and I’m just stalling until I can come up with one. And in case you didn’t know those nonexistent arguments were very long, in fact 100 pages long!”
>
> This is a translation of what you are saying. (Can’t believe I actually have to say this: THIS IS A JOKE! DON’T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!)
>
> On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
>
> P.S.
> Don’t just say I’m wrong, prove me wrong, that’s how arguments work. If I go around saying that the world isn’t round and I give reasons supporting it, you can’t just say I’m wrong without reasons.
> (BTW, the world isn’t round because it has an irregular shape more similar to a deformed golf ball).
You know what? Maybe you’re right. I’ll explain, but I’m not getting into another argument about it.
Increased BMS works better because it allows the player to move at the speed the maps are built for. Now, you may not realize it, but that is HUGE. Maps being built for sprint forces larger maps, which becomes a problem given how you’re not moving around the map as efficiently as you should be (it also creates more dead zones). Either you don’t sprint and get around slower or you sprint to get around normally, but you’re largely unable to fight back. It’s an unnecessary catch-22.
Something else sprint causes is the inclusion of more cover and/or pathways. Being built for the sprint speed makes maps bigger, which also requires more cover to help offset being defenseless when in sprint in what would been open spaces. This is particularly bad in Halo 5 with thruster which is not a mechanic that goes well with an abundance of cover (though it would theoretically be fine in a game without sprint).
An increased BMS would eliminate those problem. You can’t just build the map for the base speed in a game with sprint either because it would screw up spawns (mostly through easier manipulation) and allow people to get back into the fight quicker than they should allowed to. It could also potentially cause a snowball effect where it’s easier to capitalize on the enemy after killing them, by more quickly getting into power positions and getting power weapons. That’s why maps with sprint are made bigger: it offsets those potential problems. But they’re all problems that can be avoided without any of the poor side effects sprint has by just increasing the BMS.
I’m definitely not getting into the weapons conversation again - another lengthy conversation I’ve had with you not long ago, mind you - so you can find and re-read those posts if you want that addressed again.
> On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
What they need to do is get rid of spartan charge, that -Yoink- is -Yoink!-. Increase the cool down of weapon spawns so I don’t get raped by the rail gun constantly on overgrowth team doubles every time. And stop banning people when they quit one game. Make better maps, truth and regret are tiny circular pieces of trash
I’m so sick of this whole “sprint” argument. Over 100 pages long, and still going. All sprint is, is just a second movement speed, and the defenders of it act like it’s the end of the world.
What would happen if they would remove sprint? How would fans of the sprint mechanic react. And don’t tell me, that “if people like sprint, they shouldn’t be playing halo.”
How would removing sprint effect ANYTHING? Yeah, I know about the whole Golden Triangle, but what about other things than just sprint.
> 2533274819567236;5853:
> Increased BMS works better because it allows the player to move at the speed the maps are built for. Now, you may not realize it, but that is HUGE.
actually, its nonsense. if a game has sprint and maps are designed around sprint (as well as any other movement options) then players are, in fact, moving at the speed the maps are built for.
> Maps being built for sprint forces larger maps, which becomes a problem given how you’re not moving around the map as efficiently as you should be (it also creates more dead zones).
maybe in practice. but this was true in all games. there were places of high intensity fighting and low. This is a map design issue, not a sprint issue.
> Either you don’t sprint and get around slower or you sprint to get around normally, but you’re largely unable to fight back. It’s an unnecessary catch-22.
thats easily fixed by allowing players to instantly come out of sprint when they fire their weapon. Spartan charge also remedies this.
> Something else sprint causes is the inclusion of more cover and/or pathways. Being built for the sprint speed makes maps bigger, which also requires more cover to help offset being defenseless when in sprint in what would been open spaces.
are you anyless defenseless when caught out in the open in h2? And if we allow for instantly coming out of sprint to fire where is the problem?
> This is particularly bad in Halo 5 with thruster which is not a mechanic that goes well with an abundance of cover (though it would theoretically be fine in a game without sprint).
How so? this sounds like preference presented as fact.
> An increased BMS would eliminate those problem. You can’t just build the map for the base speed in a game with sprint either because it would screw up spawns (mostly through easier manipulation) and allow people to get back into the fight quicker than they should allowed to.
Spawning issues are map design issues and can occur no matter what. I personally would like to see halo take on a dramatically different spawning philosophy where spawns are chosen by the player and in places where access by the opponent isnt possible. I get that spawn traps required skill and rewarded the better team… but they were not fun for many people. Getting rid of the issue might be better.
> It could also potentially cause a snowball effect where it’s easier to capitalize on the enemy after killing them, by more quickly getting into power positions and getting power weapons. That’s why maps with sprint are made bigger: it offsets those potential problems. But they’re all problems that can be avoided without any of the poor side effects sprint has by just increasing the BMS.
>
> I’m definitely not getting into the weapons conversation again - another lengthy conversation I’ve had with you not long ago, mind you - so you can find and re-read those posts if you want that addressed again.
the weapon issues are probably the most compelling though.
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > >
> > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> >
> >
> > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
>
>
> Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
why not?
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5802:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> >
> >
> > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
>
>
> why not?
Because when you design a map, you design the length of sections based on a players movement speed, unless you only move at the speed the devs designed that section for, removing your ability to do what you want and play the game. The section will either be too big or too small. When you have one speed, everything is scaled to that speed. Hence the games with sprint not having any specifically amazing maps compared to ce/3 maps like the pit, guardian,waterworks,blood gulch,and sidewinder
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> > > 2535466914543129;5830:
> > > > 2533274819567236;5827:
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> > > > > > 2533274819567236;5825:
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2535466914543129;5802:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274964143689;5792:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop saying that there’s an option to choose whether to sprint or not. Maps are larger to accommodate for sprint thus punishing players not sprinting. Bullet magnetism is increased to accommodate for maps being so large. There can be no unique maps such as Guardian, Shrine or Lockout with sprint and that’s a pretty heavy price to pay for a poor mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint is a bad design choice and doesn’t fit in the Arena Shooter Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The only thing punishing you for sprinting is your self. The maps are not solely designed for sprint and lockout would play really well with the new abilities and guardian is just a lockout reskin. If you just want H3 with new graphics then you can pick it up next fall along with the scorpio.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This entire post is actually wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you think sprint would play fine on Lockout then, at this point in the thread after all this discussion, you’re simply incapable of understanding the basic effects of sprint such as what it does to spawns.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You lack knowledge on the subject and are either incapable or unwilling to gain knowledge of it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Heaven forbid spawns be less predictable in order to give people a chance!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Less predictable? No, they would be easier to manipulate. Even if they were “less predictable”, spawning next to a couple enemies isn’t helping someone. You pretty much just further proved my point about how oblivious you are to anything regarding sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like most other things in this game, spawns that are more random are not good, particularly for the person respawning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A higher bms would do all the same things to map design and spawns that you are an expert on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, either you have been reading the thread and you’re continuing to prove my point with that post (because, surprise, you’re wrong again) or you haven’t been reading the thread (which would explain your lack of knowledge) and are arguing this particular part of the discussion that has already been explained countless times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In both cases you are the one in control of whether or not that changes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You keep claiming that sprint stretches the maps and hurts the spawns because you’re going faster but you say that a higher bms should take sprints place but that would do the same thing that you claim sprint does yet I’m somehow wrong?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes. Have you not been reading this thread at all? This has been explained multiple times. So, do you read any of this or do you just decide to post but not read? Honest question, so I - and others - know how to respond to you in the future.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you don’t want to answer my question that’s fine because you’re contradicting yourself. I have been reading this thread and I could care less about your problems with a mechanic since you’re acting like sprint is the end of the world.
> >
> >
> > Scaling maps to two movement speeds Dosn’t work, scaling them to one does.
>
>
> why not?
Moving around while not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage because you are unable to get around the map at a decent pace, meaning you’ll get picked off very easily because the map is too large and you’re going to slow.
> 2533274970658419;5854:
> > On a serious note, one has explained why an increased base movement speed would work, only that maps are scaled correctly, same speed in all directions and you never put your weapon down, but not if or why it would work better. What if it’s worse because people go around with shotguns or railgun killing everyone because they can move faster in all directions? How is that better? Just because everyone else can move in all directions doesn’t mean it’s balanced, because it would be harder to kill people with power weapons because they can back peddle and strafe at a faster pace as well as chance you down without you being able to counter them without another power weapon.
>
>
> @TheNightEcho
>
> My answer to this is, did any of this happen in any other game without sprint? No. It literally makes no sense, because everyone moves at the same speed, so someone with a shotgun/railgun wouldn’t magically go faster than everyone else.
Have you played doom? Because if you had you would know that running super fast with a shotgun is very effective.