The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
5642

> 2533274819302824;5640:
> “Was that post directed at me?”
>
> Yes and no.
>
> “You don’t like the golden triangle argument?”
>
> No, I don’t think the golden triangle is a good argument, and I’m saying that as a classic fan. There’s been so many exceptions to the golden triangle in the original games alone, and as a description itself it’s very open-ended and vague, it could fit several games that clearly aren’t Halo. “Guns, grenades, melee.” Give CSGO a melee button and suddenly it’s Halo right? Melee was entirely situational in Halo Ce as well, definitely not some major part of the game.
>
> Another similar argument, but with a different agenda behind it, is “Halo 5 is Halo because equal starts and map items.” People need to understand you can’t just dilute Halo’s entire, complex identity into some easy to digest slogan. “Equal starts and map items.” Quake, UT, Time Splitters…I could think of several games that fit that criteria yet clearly aren’t Halo.
>
> “Does sprint harm Halo to the point Halo stops being Halo?” Not going to lie, that’s a difficult question. I will say modern Halo doesn’t feel like Halo for a wide combination of things, sprint included in that mix.
>
> “Sprint only interferes if you let it.” That’s just a thinly veiled “you don’t have to use it” argument. Sprint has objective impacts on the game. Even if you only use sprint 1% of the time, that’s still 1% more time spent without your gun than it would’ve been in the original games. You can go on and on about how some guy played without sprint and still won, but he was still at an objective disadvantage, and he won despite that disadvantage.
>
> “[Paraphrased] Let’s compromise by attaching a ton of unnecessary nerfs to sprint.” I don’t think you fully comprehend people’s problems with sprint. I also don’t think such an approach would truly satisfy anyone.

As long as we’ve got this Q&A going, I might as well ask a few more questions. I’m trying to enter your mindset. I hope you don’t mind.

What is halo to you?

Does halo ce feel like halo 2/3 to you both campaign and multiplayer-wise and why?

What are the main reasons why halo 5 doesn’t feel like halo (maps, music, mechanics, etc.)?

I admit, I might’ve concealed the “you don’t have to use it” phrase, but why don’t people who don’t like it just not use it? I’ve done it before and it provides no disadvantage for me.

I guess I don’t fully comprehend the problems people have with it because I don’t have problems with it. I always thought the main reason was that people didn’t like that they had to lower their weapon. Can you enlighten me as to why people don’t like it?

5643

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming :smiley:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > >
> > >
> > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> >
> >
> > That doesn’t mean vehicles make game casual. Power weapons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
>
>
> The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control, and can go anywhere on the map.

So we can’t have mongooses and scout/troop hogs. They were always a thing in other halo games

5644

> 2533274890584596;5601:
> > 2535444452126267;5596:
> > I understand why some people dislike sprint, but Halo needs to (combat) evolve if it wants to stay relevant. I still have friends that will play the older Halos with me and criticize them for not having sprint. The FPS scene is changing every year and so Halo must as well.
>
>
> Ok. I’ve heard this argument many times before, so I will ask you an honest if well-worn question. If that is the case, why has the addition of all of these derivative mechanics directly correlated to Halo being the LEAST relevant it has ever been? I find it hard to believe that people who criticize older Halos for not having sprint were ever going to comprise a major part of the potential population to begin with. Sprint wasn’t magically invented some time after Halo 3. It’s been around for a long time (they even tested it in Halo 2, but opted remove it). So, what evidence is there to suggest that the original Halo trilogy, which trended UP with each successive entry and contended just fine with the rise of CoD, needed these kinds of changes? How can that argument possibly hold up when the addition of “modernizations” like sprint resulted in the exact opposite trend in terms of sales and population that we saw in the first three, which lacked it?

Exactly^! If I wanted a bunch of gimmicky -Yoink-(sprint,boost, Spartan charge the -Yoinking!- stupidest thing I’ve seen) I’d buy COD where you can run on walls. But no I bought halo. Because halo 1-3 are some of the best games of all time. I don’t need ficking sprint

5645

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming :smiley:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> > >
> > >
> > > apons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
> >
> >
> > The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control, and can go anywhere on the map.
>
>
> So we can’t have mongooses and scout/troop hogs. They were always a thing in other halo games

What does that have to do with what I said?

5646

i think would be better to remove the dash

5647

> 2533274819302824;5640:
> My ice cream post was only being semi-serious, but it does nonetheless raise a valid point. Compromise isn’t guaranteed to get people back, and the necessity of compromise is already somewhat questionable. If, big hypothetical here, if 90% of anti-sprint people won’t play with sprint, but 90% of pro-sprinters will play the game either way, then wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the mechanic?

That depends on the numbers.

if the 90% of anti sprint are garaunteed to play with no sprint AND they represent a larger number of people than the 10% pro sprint who refuse to play without, then yeah, seems like a good decision in this simplified scenario.

5648

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming :smiley:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > apons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
> > >
> > >
> > > The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control,
>
>
> What does that have to do with what I said?

You claimed that vehicles provide extra protection and infinite ammo, the mongoose does none of that, the only reason we can’t have them is sprint

5649

> 2535455681930574;5642:
>

Busy atm but I’ll definitely get back to you on that.

5650

> 2535466198911735;5641:
> Please get rid of it!! And give me slayer BR at least once in a while! All other halo games basically make you formulate your game around the BR. then halo 5 they never let you spawn with one. And there aren’t enough on each map. It’s horse -Yoink-. You -Yoinked!- up 343

They yanked the damn BR starts for the reason you stated. Halo pvp is generally balanced except for the BR and I was ecstatic when I could finally play a game without the BR and win.

5651

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

greetings and blessings to all .

5652

I remember playing halo 2. it never had sprint. It makes sense because Spartans wear titanium armor which I suspect would be heavy. Not only will it bring back memories of the original halo, it would give the game somewhat of a real aspect too.

5653

> 2533274855279867;5606:
> > 2533274890584596;5601:
> > > 2535444452126267;5596:
> > > I understand why some people dislike sprint, but Halo needs to (combat) evolve if it wants to stay relevant. I still have friends that will play the older Halos with me and criticize them for not having sprint. The FPS scene is changing every year and so Halo must as well.
> >
> >
> > Ok. I’ve heard this argument many times before, so I will ask you an honest if well-worn question. If that is the case, why has the addition of all of these derivative mechanics directly correlated to Halo being the LEAST relevant it has ever been? I find it hard to believe that people who criticize older Halos for not having sprint were ever going to comprise a major part of the potential population to begin with. Sprint wasn’t magically invented some time after Halo 3. It’s been around for a long time (they even tested it in Halo 2, but opted remove it). So, what evidence is there to suggest that the original Halo trilogy, which trended UP with each successive entry and contended just fine with the rise of CoD, needed these kinds of changes? How can that argument possibly hold up when the addition of “modernizations” like sprint resulted in the exact opposite trend in terms of sales and population that we saw in the first three, which lacked it?
>
>
> correlation is not causation.
>
> We cannot say that sprint resulted in the decline of halo. That they happened at roughly the same time isnt irrelevant, but its not definitive why halo isnt as popular as before.

I didn’t say it was. Maybe respond to my actual argument? The simple fact I was elucidating is that making Halo “modern” has DEMONSTRABLY not made it relevant nor maintained its prior relevance. To suggest that these changes were necessary to accomplish this is simply inconsistent with reality. If that’s the goal, then they have failed. One mechanic doesn’t need to be the clear, unquestionable problem for the larger problem to be obvious.

Can I assert with absolute certainty that sprint and other gimmicks are directly and exclusively responsible for Halo’s decline? No. But it would be absolutely ridiculous to suggest that this correlation is not meaningful, particularly in combination with 6 straight years of passionate critique of these changes, a multiplayer population that was at its worst when Halo was at its most Call of Duty, the worst unit sales of ANY mainline game in the series, and no shortage of disenfranchised ex-fans who have completely written off this franchise. The number of stories I have heard of people who bought and sold their Xboxes within a week of MCC, looking for a classic Halo experience is significant. The number of people outside of a select few pro-343 forums that haven’t liked Halo since H3 is significant. I see it everywhere but in the current “343 Halo” community. On Youtube, on channels outside of the “overly-excited Halo youtuber” community. On Reddit. On most forums outside of R/Halo, Waypoint, and GAF.

But, sure. We can just say “correlation is not causation,” like that isn’t a nonstarter for useful conversation. “It’s not definitive,” while we’re STILL talking about sprint 6 years later.

5654

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274800772611;5532:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming :smiley:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > apons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control,

It does provide a bit of armor, and I guess it has unlimited honking. What does sprint have to do with non-combat vehicles? Can you just individually quote this? I’m on mobile and can’t do that.

5655

I hate this poll, and I was a major halo 3 player and at the time I loved it I played it until a couple months after halo 4 was released (never got or liked reach) but when I go back I absolutely can not deal with the game not having sprint it bothers me endlessly, and sprint makes the game more tactical in many ways such as having to know when to be sprinting and when you will need to be ready to fire, there are also some things like map control sprint may affect but i honestly see nothing sprint harms, at all

5656

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274800772611;5532:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming :smiley:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > apons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control,
>
>
> What does sprint have to do with non-combat vehicles? Can you just individually quote this? I’m on mobile and can’t do that.

Il just start a new chain

5657

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> > > > > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5542:
> > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > >
> > >
> > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> >
> >
> > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
>
>
> Do you like sprint because people can escape fights and prioritize defensive play over offensive play? Probably, because you’re not good at the game (I say “you” in the general sense, not you specifically), so of course you find that enjoyable.

Yes because everyone who plays smart and strategically sucks at a game. I guess everyone should just run around like headless chickens… wait what?

> But keeping sprint has only been accompanied by some of the lowest sales and population in the franchise history.

Apparently being on a console with lose sales and popularity has no affect on the sales of exclusive games. Guess sprint and the new movements are to blame… wait what?

Stop doing magic tricks and pulling stuff out that isn’t there. Sprint adds strategy to the game, but it is not a necessity to use, you can play the game just fine with or without it, if you want to walk around maniacally or sneak around you can, go ahead, but I’ll sprint when I need to get to a boss or to cover.

Also we have no clue whether or not sprint caused Halo 5 to have low sales, but we can say that the Xbox One being highly unpopular did affect Halo 5’s sales as well as the sales of many other exclusive games.

5658

Ark Trooper 48. Because of sprint making maps bigger, sprint is required to traverse them at a reasonable pace, filling the role of vehicles in the past, hence halo 5 having horrible vehicle play

5659

> 2535471109694535;5657:
> > 2533274819567236;5581:
> > > 2535455681930574;5576:
> > > > 2533274819567236;5562:
> > > > > 2535455681930574;5560:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;5559:
> > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5558:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5555:
> > > > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5554:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5548:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5542:
> > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> >
> >
> > Do you like sprint because people can escape fights and prioritize defensive play over offensive play? Probably, because you’re not good at the game (I say “you” in the general sense, not you specifically), so of course you find that enjoyable.
>
>
> Yes because everyone who plays smart and strategically sucks at a game. I guess everyone should just run around like headless chickens… wait what?
>
>
> > But keeping sprint has only been accompanied by some of the lowest sales and population in the franchise history.
>
>
> Apparently being on a console with lose sales and popularity has no affect on the sales of exclusive games. Guess sprint and the new movements are to blame… wait what?
>
> Stop doing magic tricks and pulling stuff out that isn’t there. Sprint adds strategy to the game, but it is not a necessity to use, you can play the game just fine with or without it, if you want to walk around maniacally or sneak around you can, go ahead, but I’ll sprint when I need to get to a boss or to cover.
>
> Also we have no clue whether or not sprint caused Halo 5 to have low sales, but we can say that the Xbox One being highly unpopular did affect Halo 5’s sales as well as the sales of many other exclusive games.

The only strategy it adds is running away, which is what we don’t want, we want more kills and faster gameplay, not less kills and running away

5660

How is this thread still active?
Hasn’t the debate ended by now?
There will be pro-sprint and no-sprint supporters on this. There will be pros and cons for both… + if you sprint away from combat, if you have no clue on where to go, you’re off in a split second. Sure, more speed to halo would make sprint redundant, but will make for some inaccurate, less tactical mayhem (see Doom). Both fun stuff, but as far as the with/without sprint argument goes, the community should not be as divided on this… And since when is a game being a bit friendly to casual players a bad thing - that is if you think sprint is casual player stuff…

5661

> 2535471109694535;5657:
> > 2533274819567236;5581:
> > > 2535455681930574;5576:
> > > > 2533274819567236;5562:
> > > > > 2535455681930574;5560:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;5559:
> > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5558:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5555:
> > > > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5554:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5548:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535455681930574;5542:
> > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> >
> >
> > Do you like sprint because people can escape fights and prioritize defensive play over offensive play? Probably, because you’re not good at the game (I say “you” in the general sense, not you specifically), so of course you find that enjoyable.
>
>
> Yes because everyone who plays smart and strategically sucks at a game. I guess everyone should just run around like headless chickens… wait what?
>
>
> > But keeping sprint has only been accompanied by some of the lowest sales and population in the franchise history.
>
>
> Apparently being on a console with lose sales and popularity has no affect on the sales of exclusive games. Guess sprint and the new movements are to blame… wait what?
>
> Stop doing magic tricks and pulling stuff out that isn’t there. Sprint adds strategy to the game, but it is not a necessity to use, you can play the game just fine with or without it, if you want to walk around maniacally or sneak around you can, go ahead, but I’ll sprint when I need to get to a boss or to cover.
>
> Also we have no clue whether or not sprint caused Halo 5 to have low sales, but we can say that the Xbox One being highly unpopular did affect Halo 5’s sales as well as the sales of many other exclusive games.

You call it playing smart, but many call it being bad. One in the same I guess. The point remains.

The Xbone is selling faster than the 360 did, so I’m not sure what you’re on about. It had a higher install base than Halo 3 and still ended getting poor sales.