If sprint goes sliding and spartan charge goes as well, and I don’t know how some people would react to having that feature removed.
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> > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > >
> > >
> > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> >
> >
> > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> >
> > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
>
>
> They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
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> How about this? We raise the BMS so that when you push the stick all the way you move around at about sprinting speed, BUT this way you can also shoot your gun and throw nades. And if you don’t like this freedom of option, you don’t have to shoot or throw nades, simple as that. You can just move at sprinting speed in one direction if you like. What are you saying? This will give you a huge disadvantage? Well I’ll be -Yoink!-, weird how not using a mechanic that is out there but it totally “optional” will somehow put you in some kind of a disadvantage.
>
> Why am I sensing some kind of a dejavu?
This puts it perfectly
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > >
> > >
> > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> >
> >
> > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
>
>
> How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
Agreed, compromise cannot be made with sprint. There are people demanding exclusion of sprint and inclusion of sprint. Compromise is something that at least make no problem for each side, but sprint is different. It’s either inclusion or exclusion. 343 chose inclusion of sprint, which is not compromise for the opposite side.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > >
> > >
> > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> >
> >
> > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
>
>
> How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
Alright here goes. I’m thinking of making a thread on it later.
There would still be sprint, but your weapons would lowered while sprinting. All of the balances that sprint has right now would stay, but there would be more. The reticle would fully bloom when sprinting, and the reticle would move left to right to simulate your shoulders moving. This way, you guys could still keep using the golden triangle at all times, and we get our sprint.
Or, you know, they could just make a few classic playlists. That always works too.
Oh jeez this thread is still an absolute -Yoink- show.
The “golden triangle” is just a gross oversimplification used to better explain a point to someone unfamiliar with the topic. Can’t think of any specific examples but it’s happened tons of times in my science courses. The instructor will introduce you to a basic concept in a digestible format, then a week later he’ll explain why what he told you before wasn’t entirely accurate. Anyone who relies on “the golden triangle” as an actual argument should just be ignored.
That said Halo does have a core formula. One that’s largely subjective, but a core formula nonetheless. People argue that sprint breaks that formula in a way that something like vehicles do not. I.e. vehicles are situational, don’t remove your offensive capabilities, are an on-map item, are only in specific niche modes of play. Whereas sprint is found in every mode, it’s constantly interfering with your offensive capabilities, its something you spawn with, so on.
As an aside there is (was) a competitive organization devoted to BTB but I’m not going to get into that.
My ice cream post was only being semi-serious, but it does nonetheless raise a valid point. Compromise isn’t guaranteed to get people back, and the necessity of compromise is already somewhat questionable. If, big hypothetical here, if 90% of anti-sprint people won’t play with sprint, but 90% of pro-sprinters will play the game either way, then wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the mechanic?
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> > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > >
> > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> >
> >
> > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
>
>
> Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> > >
> > >
> > > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
> >
> >
> > How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
>
>
> Alright here goes. I’m thinking of making a thread on it later.
>
> There would still be sprint, but your weapons would lowered while sprinting. All of the balances that sprint has right now would stay, but there would be more. The reticle would fully bloom when sprinting, and the reticle would move left to right to simulate your shoulders moving. This way, you guys could still keep using the golden triangle at all times, and we get our sprint.
>
> Or, you know, they could just make a few classic playlists. That always works too.
Then everyone would rage about the bloom, it would be halo reach times ten
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
> > >
> > >
> > > How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
> >
> >
> > Alright here goes. I’m thinking of making a thread on it later.
> >
> > There would still be sprint, but your weapons would lowered while sprinting. All of the balances that sprint has right now would stay, but there would be more. The reticle would fully bloom when sprinting, and the reticle would move left to right to simulate your shoulders moving. This way, you guys could still keep using the golden triangle at all times, and we get our sprint.
> >
> > Or, you know, they could just make a few classic playlists. That always works too.
>
>
> Then everyone would rage about the bloom, it would be halo reach times ten
I don’t believe it would be, because full bloom would only be activated when sprinting. So do you think it could work?
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> > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > >
> > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > >
> > >
> > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> >
> >
> > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
>
>
> They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
That doesn’t mean vehicles make game casual. Power weapons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
> > >
> > >
> > > Alright here goes. I’m thinking of making a thread on it later.
> > >
> > > There would still be sprint, but your weapons would lowered while sprinting. All of the balances that sprint has right now would stay, but there would be more. The reticle would fully bloom when sprinting, and the reticle would move left to right to simulate your shoulders moving. This way, you guys could still keep using the golden triangle at all times, and we get our sprint.
> > >
> > > Or, you know, they could just make a few classic playlists. That always works too.
> >
> >
> > Then everyone would rage about the bloom, it would be halo reach times ten
>
>
> I don’t believe it would be, because full bloom would only be activated when sprinting. So do you think it could work?
No because we still have a bad BMS and bad gunplay due to the lack of good strafing, maby a h5 momentum mechanic that dosn’t require a button press or change spread, a reward for moving in the same direction like towards a power weapon for a consistent amount of time
We need sorint about as bad as we need
> 2533274801176260;5590:
> > 2535473635314008;5585:
> > There’s a trend I’ve seen pop up a few times during this thread that concerns me.
> > A few commenters will talk about sprint belonging in COD and not halo. Halo shouldn’t be trying to mimic other games and stay true to its identity.
> > Then immidiately followed by look at Doom and Overwatch and CS. Halo should do what working for those guys.
> > I realize that waypoint is a collection of various thoughts and opinions but I worry about comparisons to other games.
> > [snip]
>
>
> I think you misunderstand the argument that people try to make.
>
> Overwatch and Doom are not used as examples of “Shooters without sprint are popular, so Halo should do the same”. They are used as a counterargument to the claim that gets thrown around repeatedly, stating “Sprint is neccessary for Halo to keep up with the times”. Obviously, there are at least two games that manage to do so without resorting to a gimmick feature like sprint…
>
> “Purists” are arguing for mechanics that resemble Halo’s original core gameplay. Our agenda would not have been different had both of these games never seen a release.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535473635314008;5585:
> > Right now the only 2 established franchises that are trying to stay in the arena shooter multiplayer genre are halo ( 343 made huge strides in halo 5 to get this game back to a competative arena shooter from their previous release), and Unreal Tournamnet. But the new UT is basically a fan influenced recreation of the same game from over a decade ago.
>
>
> I vehemently disagree that 343 is trying to get Halo “back” to an arena shooter. (I also disagree that it ever was an arena shooter to begin with.) Classes and loadouts might have been dropped, but gameplay-wise, we’re still just as far away from said genre as we’ve been with Halo 4, if not further. Halo will never be even remotely arena-like until we get the run’n’gun-gamplay back, regardless of how 343 would like to call the multiplayer-portion of their game. There are more than just two genres of shooters: Just because H5G is not a class-based shooter anymore does not automatically make it an arena shooter.
i couldn’t disagree more about game classification. You really think 343 moved halo further away from a true arena shooter with halo 5 from where they left it with 4. I just cannot agree with that. Can’t even argue that, we are way to far apart to debate. I havnt seen any franchise in the arena genre make steps towards reclaiming the old school arena shooter gameplay in years, except 343. Even doom has stepped away from the genre. Quake (say it isn’t so) is moving away from the genre. Halo seems to be moving back towards that genre, even though 343 did pull them out of it.
But at the end of the day that really doesn’t matter. Its a classification, nothing more, nothing less.
I do agree that sprint isn’t necrssary, just like grenades are not necessary. The BR isn’t necessary, ghosts are not necessary. It’s element of the game that adds more dynamics to encounters. You can choose to give up offence to move in and out of conflicts, just like you can choose to throw a nade or not. But if you touch my thruster its on!!! That needs to stay.
The argument that sprint makes the gameplay fast isn’t a very good one. I just like the dynamic flow to halo 5. If that stays without sprint I would be very happy without it. Of the 3 original games I find halo CE to be the fastest gameplay in multiplayer, but the base movement speed is the same for each game 1 to 3. Maps affect the speed of the game way more than sprint does.
> 2535473635314008;5633:
> We need sorint about as bad as we need
>
>
> > 2533274801176260;5590:
> > > 2535473635314008;5585:
> > > The argument that sprint makes the gameplay fast isn’t a very good one. I just like the dynamic flow to halo 5. If that stays without sprint I would be very happy without it. Of the 3 original games I find halo CE to be the fastest gameplay in multiplayer, but the base movement speed is the same for each game 1 to 3. Maps affect the speed of the game way more than sprint does.
Wrong.
> 2533274819302824;5627:
> Oh jeez this thread is still an absolute -Yoink- show.
>
> The “golden triangle” is just a gross oversimplification used to better explain a point to someone unfamiliar with the topic. Can’t think of any specific examples but it’s happened tons of times in my science courses. The instructor will introduce you to a basic concept in a digestible format, then a week later he’ll explain why what he told you before wasn’t entirely accurate. Anyone who relies on “the golden triangle” as an actual argument should just be ignored.
>
> That said Halo does have a core formula. One that’s largely subjective, but a core formula nonetheless. People argue that sprint breaks that formula in a way that something like vehicles do not. I.e. vehicles are situational, don’t remove your offensive capabilities, are an on-map item, are only in specific niche modes of play. Whereas sprint is found in every mode, it’s constantly interfering with your offensive capabilities, its something you spawn with, so on.
>
> As an aside there is (was) a competitive organization devoted to BTB but I’m not going to get into that.
>
> My ice cream post was only being semi-serious, but it does nonetheless raise a valid point. Compromise isn’t guaranteed to get people back, and the necessity of compromise is already somewhat questionable. If, big hypothetical here, if 90% of anti-sprint people won’t play with sprint, but 90% of pro-sprinters will play the game either way, then wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the mechanic?
I’m gonna take a guess and assume this post was directed at me.
So you’re not a fan of the golden triangle argument? Do you think sprint harms halo that much as to say it’s not even halo any more? To me, sprint only interferes if you let it.
I know BTB can be competitive, but it is no where near the competitive scale as team arena with no vehicles.
Compromise isn’t guaranteed to get anyone back, but to be honest, nothing is guaranteed to get any one back. That would make sense, but many people including myself prefer the gameplay with sprint, so one part would still be upset.
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> > We need sorint about as bad as we need
> >
> >
> > > 2533274801176260;5590:
> > > > 2535473635314008;5585:
> > > > The argument that sprint makes the gameplay fast isn’t a very good one. I just like the dynamic flow to halo 5. If that stays without sprint I would be very happy without it. Of the 3 original games I find halo CE to be the fastest gameplay in multiplayer, but the base movement speed is the same for each game 1 to 3. Maps affect the speed of the game way more than sprint does.
>
>
> Wrong.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually listed a few gameplay reasons on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why I think sprint is beneficial. Not all who like sprint will stay with the game if it doesn’t have it. They wouldn’t notice a problem? I feel like you’re having the same problem as another user here who was generalizing the pro-sprinters into young people who can’t think for themselves. We don’t know how many people left solely for sprint, so all we’re doing right now is just making assumptions.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there’s no room for compromise for a disliked mechanic, and I agree. However, sprint is both a disliked and liked mechanic, and you can’t deny that, so there MUST be compromise. It looks like halo 6 will be keeping sprint, so compromise is your best option.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, could you please individually quote this. I’m on mobile and can’t do that, and I’m running out of space to write (I hate that the character counter counts letters that don’t even show up anymore).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not all need to stay with the game if it doesn’t have sprint. At the very least, most would and that’s all that needs to happen. People won’t just not buy the game if it doesn’t have sprint. They’ll buy it, try it and likely enjoy it just fine (again, if it’s done properly). It’s not just young people who can’t think for themselves, it’s the masses that can’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, just because it’s liked by some people doesn’t mean a compromise is necessary. There are people that liked dual wielding, loadouts and ordinance drops, but no compromise was necessary because they were in the small minority. You do not cater to the minorty when it comes to game changing mechanics/ elements. Compromise is not my best option. My best option is playing another game, which I and many others will be doing (and have already starting doing).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But sprint is not liked by some people, it’s liked by a whole lot of people. I feel that we are going in circles. You’re saying “not enough people like sprint to compromise and we shouldn’t have had sprint in the first place” while I’m saying “There are enough people that like sprint, so we need a compromise to make both parties happy.”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we at least try to compromise first before we go to one side or the other?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, it’s liked by a lot in this now small fanbase. If you want to bring in fans, particularly former fans, you try to appeal to them. 343 tried to do this with Halo 4 to bring in new fans and it didn’t work, it just pushed people away and it’s continuing to not work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We tried a compromise three times now. Pro-sprinters seem to forget that the last 6 years happened. Reach happened, Halo 4 happened, Halo 5 happened. Compromise on this issue does not work. How many times must it not work for people to understand?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fan base is smaller, not small. The only compromise was in halo 5. Reach and 4 were not compromises. The halo 5 sprint compromise worked to an extent, but not completely. So why don’t we discuss a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The fanbase is small relative to what it was.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > What you said would imply that Sprint was the same in Reach and Halo 4, which it wasn’t. It was an armor ability in Reach, so it was then implemented by default in Halo 4 for a more consistant - and “expected” - experience and then it was changed in Halo 5. How many times must changes need to be made before people realize it just won’t work? Seriously, how many times?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It wasn’t the same, but that doesn’t mean it was changed for a compromise. It works in halo 5. You may not like it and think it’s not halo, but sprint works in halo 5. Why can’t you even consider a compromise?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Continually asking for a compromise is only proving that you still don’t know what sprints issues are and care little of the potential gain that could be had in terms of fan base growth. A compromise won’t fix the issues with sprint and in many cases, it’s -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t (map size being a good example of that). Halo 5’s sprint wasn’t anymore a compromise than previous versions, because they didn’t fix any of the problems, they just changed how it worked.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That’s because the so-called issues you have make the game more fun for me and others who also like sprint. As I’ve already stated, the removal of sprint will most likely not make the player base grow a significant amount, if at all. Think of sprint’s change from halo 4 to 5 the same as dual wielding’s change from halo 2 to 3. Why can’t we at least discuss potential compromises?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have a better idea, let’s talk about dual wieldings change from halo 3 to reach, removed… Here’s your compromise, we get 120 BMS, we can move fast, and you can just only put your joystick down all the way when your “sprinting”, problem solved
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s not solving the problem. That is just increasing the BMS, giving the anti-sprinters what they want and not the pro-sprinters.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You want two movement speeds, you have two movement speeds, half joystick and full joystick. There is no compromise to be made, unless it involves you getting what You want with a non sprint BMS and no weapon lowering
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you’re just going to be like this, then why am I still responding? There is a compromise that sone one else made up and I tweaked it a bit for my own, but no one seems to want a compromise. Only their way.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How would you like to compromise between having sprint and not having sprint, it’s a one or the other thing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alright here goes. I’m thinking of making a thread on it later.
> > > >
> > > > There would still be sprint, but your weapons would lowered while sprinting. All of the balances that sprint has right now would stay, but there would be more. The reticle would fully bloom when sprinting, and the reticle would move left to right to simulate your shoulders moving. This way, you guys could still keep using the golden triangle at all times, and we get our sprint.
> > > >
> > > > Or, you know, they could just make a few classic playlists. That always works too.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then everyone would rage about the bloom, it would be halo reach times ten
> >
> >
> > I don’t believe it would be, because full bloom would only be activated when sprinting. So do you think it could work?
>
>
> No because we still have a bad BMS and bad gunplay due to the lack of good strafing, maby a h5 momentum mechanic that dosn’t require a button press or change spread, a reward for moving in the same direction like towards a power weapon for a consistent amount of time
I never said the BMS would stay the same as halo 5’s BMS. It would of course be increased. If that’s your only problem then it seems like it’s a good idea.
> 2535456165221911;5631:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> >
> >
> > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
>
>
> That doesn’t mean vehicles make game casual. Power weapons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control, and can go anywhere on the map.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a couple of years, after the successes of Doom, Overwatch, new Quake, CS:GO, TF2, and whatever other popular FPS that launches without sprint it will be the opposite. Most games will not have sprint. There is no such thing as a “modern” mechanic. Sprint is not a “modern” game mechanic. There is a flow where certain things are popular, don’t get me wrong, but these things are not required for a game to be successful. There will be a future where Halo does not have Sprint anymore. This is mostly because 343i don’t set trends, they follow them, and clearly the only reason Sprint is in the game is because CoD had it and CoD is popular. (Josh Holmes basically strait up said as much)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adapting a mechanic after a decade of boring, cookie-cutter, FPS games does not make your game stand out. In fact, it does the opposite, and this is what has happened to Halo since 343i’s take over. Halo is as generic as it gets now a days. When you look at what Halo 5 did when compared to other FPS games in the last five years it is all the same. Thrusters are nothing new. Sliding is nothing new. Sprinting is nothing new. In fact, the only new and interesting mechanic added with Halo 5 is Ground Pound, and I think that it is clearly the most interesting and that it best fits in with the sandbox without ruining other aspects.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people blame Sprint for Halo’s demise it is overeating a little. Sprint is not why Halo has gone down the gutter. The real reason is that 343i and Microsoft have no idea what made Halo special, and have turned it into the most generic FPS possible in order to grab for money. Halo doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t do anything new or different to attract an audience. Sprint isn’t the sole reason, but it is a part of it, maybe the biggest part.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gameplay differences added in because of Sprint fundamentally change the way that the games are played. If you like this or not has nothing to do with it, it just does. It’s a fact. So the argument isn’t whether Sprint changes Halo or not, it’s whether you like Halo becoming extremely generic or not. We are only a tiny part of the community here. Our polls mean nothing. The true indicator that people don’t like the way that Halo is going is based on sales, and Halo 5 is the worst selling mainline Halo game ever, so I think that says a decent amount about how people feel about the game.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I like this comment a couple of times? What has actually happened for me is that CoD plays better now because sprint and fast kill times go hand in hand. Halos longer TTK and shield systems just doesn’t work with sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > First they made the maps bigger and they have zones where nobody is supposed to have a firefight. Then if I have to pursue someone with sprint I can only move in one direction without the ability to shoot or have anything offensive except shoulder charge and for that I must be very close. Then if a get shot or win a firefight after being shot, I must wait for my shields to recharge before sprinting thus I’m moving at a very slow pace compared to what the map was made for.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Halo 5 plays very slow, the only thing that is faster is the TTK and the op automatics that need no aiming
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint just doesn’t work in Halo. Simple as that. The elements that make Halo, Halo, just don’t work. The golden triangle? Completely destroyed. Unique and asymmetrical map design? NOPE! Balanced vehicle integration? Doesn’t exist. All of that can be attributed to the addition of Sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Do you actually believe what you just said? The golden triangle is destroyed? Um, not its not. You literally don’t have to sprint and will do fine. There’s no unique and asymmetrical map design? Actually there is. Use Plaza and Eden for examples. The vehicles aren’t balanced? Nothing is too weak and nothing is OP. That’s pretty much how you balance vehicles. Even if they weren’t balanced, you’d blame sprint?! Smh…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While you are Sprinting you are quite literally only able to do one of the three parts of the Golden Triangle. Melee, and Spartan Charge seems to be universally hated. Both Guns and Grenades are removed from your abilities, destroying the Golden Triangle. If you choose not to Sprint, like you say, it’s going to be impossible to get to any of the power weapons before your opponent, and put you at a severe disadvantage. All of the maps in Halo 5 are the same size, with little to no variation in how it feels. Sure that’s my opinion, and not a fact, but when you compare Lockout, Zanzibar, and Beaver Creek to Plaza, Overgrowth, and the Rig there is no comparison in the variation in gameplay that the maps offer. There is literally not a single vehicle on any 343i made Arena map. They are completely removed from the sandbox for what 343i envisioned.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Maps are the way because of Sprint, and vehicle use is limited because of the presence of Sprint. So yes, I’d say that Sprint is responsible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yah, but you don’t have to sprint (have you seen UH’s video? He literally doesn’t sprint the entire time to prove a point). It’s not impossible to get power weapons without sprinting and frankly, it isn’t even hard. I agree that a lot of the maps are around the same size, but that’s not sprints fault. The reason there’s no vehicles on the arena maps is because halo 5 was designed to be competitive, and vehicles don’t make gameplay that competive. Maps are bigger because of sprint, but designed around the Spartan abilities.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How vehicles don’t make the game competitive? It’s like saying power weapons don’t make game competitive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s a reason BTB is social. Also, vehicles restrict access of the beloved golden triangle more than sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are not answering to the question. How does vehicle make game casual?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also about the Golden Triangle, that applies to only infantry.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They are easy to use killing machines. With a vehicle, you are protected and have unlimited ammo that is usually more powerful than regular ammo. With a vehicle, a gold can go against an onyx and win most of the time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Players are not guaranteed protection. There are vulnerable spots and weakness of vehicles. Every vehicles can be disabled by Plasma Pistol. Vehicles take skill to use, in Halo, Warthog is best example of taking skill to drive vehicle. All vehicles take skill just like weapons.
> > >
> > >
> > > They are guaranteed a lot more protection than if they were on the ground. Vehicles are a lot easier to use than weapons, and I’ll admit they take a bit of skill, but not a lot.
> >
> >
> > That doesn’t mean vehicles make game casual. Power weapons are easy to use and kill others easily like vehicles. The reason Halo being competitive is because players go and fight for easy use power weapon by using weapons on the map. Vehicles can be like this, players go and fight to get vehicle that will help them lead to victory. Vehicles are too powerful? Plasma Pistol is there. You probably know that Plasma Pistol is very effective weapon. On the other hand, there could be simple vehicles like Mongoose to get certain points faster or use as cover. Vehicles allow more variety and dynamic to the game. I am sure that it will be competitive and can replace power weapon with vehicle.
>
>
> The reason why power weapons are fine in competitive play and not vehicles is because the weapons have a limited supply of ammo, no extra protection (not talking about warzone), promoted more map control, and can go anywhere on the map.
Vehicles can be destroyed and no longer be used until it respawns. Vehicles have limited health/armor.
“Was that post directed at me?”
Yes and no.
“You don’t like the golden triangle argument?”
No, I don’t think the golden triangle is a good argument, and I’m saying that as a classic fan. There’s been so many exceptions to the golden triangle in the original games alone, and as a description itself it’s very open-ended and vague, it could fit several games that clearly aren’t Halo. “Guns, grenades, melee.” Give CSGO a melee button and suddenly it’s Halo right? Melee was entirely situational in Halo Ce as well, definitely not some major part of the game.
Another similar argument, but with a different agenda behind it, is “Halo 5 is Halo because equal starts and map items.” People need to understand you can’t just dilute Halo’s entire, complex identity into some easy to digest slogan. “Equal starts and map items.” Quake, UT, Time Splitters…I could think of several games that fit that criteria yet clearly aren’t Halo.
“Does sprint harm Halo to the point Halo stops being Halo?” Not going to lie, that’s a difficult question. I will say modern Halo doesn’t feel like Halo for a wide combination of things, sprint included in that mix.
“Sprint only interferes if you let it.” That’s just a thinly veiled “you don’t have to use it” argument. Sprint has objective impacts on the game. Even if you only use sprint 1% of the time, that’s still 1% more time spent without your gun than it would’ve been in the original games. You can go on and on about how some guy played without sprint and still won, but he was still at an objective disadvantage, and he won despite that disadvantage.
“[Paraphrased] Let’s compromise by attaching a ton of unnecessary nerfs to sprint.” I don’t think you fully comprehend people’s problems with sprint. I also don’t think such an approach would truly satisfy anyone.
Please get rid of it!! And give me slayer BR at least once in a while! All other halo games basically make you formulate your game around the BR. then halo 5 they never let you spawn with one. And there aren’t enough on each map. It’s horse -Yoink-. You -Yoinked!- up 343