The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
5362

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> > I don’t get how people are so dense on this subject. Sprint being removed would only appeal to the so-called Halo-vets. Simultaneously, it would just further diminish the declining player base because the typical gamer expects sprint now. That’s an unavoidable fact.
> >
> > People have this stupid misconception that Halo’s been declining because of added features, but the reality is that they’re the only thing keeping the franchise alive to compete against the much larger ocean of FPS competition now. Nostalgia’s great, but go play MCC if you want it. H2 was my favorite game of all time, but I can still see the reality.
>
>
> Looks at Overwatch and CS GO’s insane popularity as well as DOOM’s massive amount of popularity and praise for not having/emphasizing sprint, sighs heavily. Also another go play the MCC dismissal…maybe I’ll just go grab a whiteboard to keep track of all of these.

Overwatch is stale. It will be dead soon enough. It’s multiconsole as well so not very comparable. DOOM is massively popular? I loved that game for a few weeks, then came right back to Halo. If anyone has a link to current populations I’d honestly like to see it. Google is giving me no luck. But I’m pretty damn sure DOOM is dying quickly, so not the best example.

5363

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> > > > > > I don’t get how people are so dense on this subject. Sprint being removed would only appeal to the so-called Halo-vets. Simultaneously, it would just further diminish the declining player base because the typical gamer expects sprint now. That’s an unavoidable fact.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People have this stupid misconception that Halo’s been declining because of added features, but the reality is that they’re the only thing keeping the franchise alive to compete against the much larger ocean of FPS competition now. Nostalgia’s great, but go play MCC if you want it. H2 was my favorite game of all time, but I can still see the reality.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You do realise that two of the top 3 most played FPS games this year do not have sprint right?
> > > > >
> > > > > Keeping a mechanic that makes your game play objectively worse in order to keep up with the imaginary jones is not a good way to design a game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not sure what games you’re referring to, but if one is Overwatch, that game got insanely stale quick and will die out soon. Multiplatform changes things a bit.
> > > >
> > > > And it’s not objectively worse… it’s subjectively worse to some.
> > > >
> > > > The way sprint currently is makes for an interesting trade off because of how the shields operate. Frankly, a lot of people sprint too much and would probably play far better without it. It adds another layer of strategy. H2 and H3 were great for the time, but they also had half as much competition, if that. Times change.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please explain to me how h5 has more competition than h3 did. Outside of destiny and mine craft all I see competing against h5 is sequels to games that h3 competed against. Add to that several IPs that h3 competed against that no longer exist.
> > >
> > > As the price of AAA development has risen we’ve seen the frequency of AAA Gane releases lower .We’ve also seen developers become more and more reluctant to take risks resulting in fewer groundbreaking games.
> >
> >
> > Seriously, just start with H2. It basically created matchmaking as we know it, and revolutionized online play for consoles. After all that, of course H3 would have a strong buyer base. FPS that competed with H3 were essentially COD. That’s about it. I can’t recall any other game that I saw friends abandoning H3 for at the time.
> >
> > There were other games that failed quick, but pretty much nothing else. H5 is competing with COD which has now become a -Yoinking!- juggernaut, Battlefield, Destiny, Fallout, and plenty of games with short term success like DOOM and Overwatch, and the fact that online multiplayer is now the norm, and competition is a bit tougher.
> >
> > On top of all this, Halo’s original audience is getting older and older. People, like myself, who were just children when Halo came out are now adults who typically have less time to play. The younger audience is what keeps these games alive. As much as people hate on so-called “squeakers” they’re a gigantic player base, and the majority of them expect sprint.
>
>
> MW2 and MW3 outsold the COD games h5 is competing against. Fallout and battlefield were around when h3 was out. Neither doom or overwatch are all that successful on xbox meaning h5 isn’t competing agonist the bulk of thier player bases. These games are offset by games like TF2 that existed during the days of h3.
>
> Studies have shown that the average gamer is like 30 or something like that.
>
> You’re making excuses that just don’t hold up.
>
> Halo is declining because it has become generic. People don’t go crazy for generic products.

I’m simply a realist. I’m fine with how H5 is but would be fine if they went back to the old formula. I’d frankly be shocked if it did anything but tank if they did though.

5364

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> > > > > > 2535411589973028;5353:
> > > > > > > 2533274796863799;5352:
> > > > > > > I don’t get how people are so dense on this subject. Sprint being removed would only appeal to the so-called Halo-vets. Simultaneously, it would just further diminish the declining player base because the typical gamer expects sprint now. That’s an unavoidable fact.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > People have this stupid misconception that Halo’s been declining because of added features, but the reality is that they’re the only thing keeping the franchise alive to compete against the much larger ocean of FPS competition now. Nostalgia’s great, but go play MCC if you want it. H2 was my favorite game of all time, but I can still see the reality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You do realise that two of the top 3 most played FPS games this year do not have sprint right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keeping a mechanic that makes your game play objectively worse in order to keep up with the imaginary jones is not a good way to design a game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Not sure what games you’re referring to, but if one is Overwatch, that game got insanely stale quick and will die out soon. Multiplatform changes things a bit.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it’s not objectively worse… it’s subjectively worse to some.
> > > > >
> > > > > The way sprint currently is makes for an interesting trade off because of how the shields operate. Frankly, a lot of people sprint too much and would probably play far better without it. It adds another layer of strategy. H2 and H3 were great for the time, but they also had half as much competition, if that. Times change.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please explain to me how h5 has more competition than h3 did. Outside of destiny and mine craft all I see competing against h5 is sequels to games that h3 competed against. Add to that several IPs that h3 competed against that no longer exist.
> > > >
> > > > As the price of AAA development has risen we’ve seen the frequency of AAA Gane releases lower .We’ve also seen developers become more and more reluctant to take risks resulting in fewer groundbreaking games.
> > >
> > >
> > > Seriously, just start with H2. It basically created matchmaking as we know it, and revolutionized online play for consoles. After all that, of course H3 would have a strong buyer base. FPS that competed with H3 were essentially COD. That’s about it. I can’t recall any other game that I saw friends abandoning H3 for at the time.
> > >
> > > There were other games that failed quick, but pretty much nothing else. H5 is competing with COD which has now become a -Yoinking!- juggernaut, Battlefield, Destiny, Fallout, and plenty of games with short term success like DOOM and Overwatch, and the fact that online multiplayer is now the norm, and competition is a bit tougher.
> > >
> > > On top of all this, Halo’s original audience is getting older and older. People, like myself, who were just children when Halo came out are now adults who typically have less time to play. The younger audience is what keeps these games alive. As much as people hate on so-called “squeakers” they’re a gigantic player base, and the majority of them expect sprint.
> >
> >
> > MW2 and MW3 outsold the COD games h5 is competing against. Fallout and battlefield were around when h3 was out. Neither doom or overwatch are all that successful on xbox meaning h5 isn’t competing agonist the bulk of thier player bases. These games are offset by games like TF2 that existed during the days of h3.
> >
> > Studies have shown that the average gamer is like 30 or something like that.
> >
> > You’re making excuses that just don’t hold up.
> >
> > Halo is declining because it has become generic. People don’t go crazy for generic products.
>
>
> I’m simply a realist. I’m fine with how H5 is but would be fine if they went back to the old formula. I’d frankly be shocked if it did anything but tank if they did though.

At worst it would just keep puttering along like it has been.

Plus, not using sprint doesn’t mean they have to use “the old formula”. They could keep thrust, slide, clamber, ground pound.

5365

I agree

5366

Lol at people saying H3 had the same competition, litteraly the only other multiplayer FPS In 07-08 were MW, Unreal, tournament 3, Team Fortress on the Orange Box then WAW in 08, MW3 was 09.
2015 alone you have Battlefield Hardline, Taken King, Blops3, Battlefront, R6S, as well as H5 then there was Doom, Overwatch and Battleborn so far this this year with more to come on BF1, TF2, CoD IW and MWR all competing for a piece of the Multiplayer market in the space of a year. Sales of these games alone indicate that the competition is far more fierce than it was in 07. People need to stop trying to rewrite history.

5367

> 2533274921982810;5366:
> Lol at people saying H3 had the same competition, litteraly the only other multiplayer FPS In 07-08 were MW, Unreal, tournament 3, Team Fortress on the Orange Box then WAW in 08, MW3 was 09.
> 2015 alone you have Battlefield Hardline, Taken King, Blops3, Battlefront, R6S, as well as H5 then there was Doom, Overwatch and Battleborn so far this this year with more to come on BF1, TF2, CoD IW and MWR all competing for a piece of the Multiplayer market in the space of a year. Sales of these games alone indicate that the competition is far more fierce than it was in 07. People need to stop trying to rewrite history.

Says the guy who just literally ignored half of the big MP games that were around from 07-09.

5368

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> > 2533274921982810;5366:
> > Lol at people saying H3 had the same competition, litteraly the only other multiplayer FPS In 07-08 were MW, Unreal, tournament 3, Team Fortress on the Orange Box then WAW in 08, MW3 was 09.
> > 2015 alone you have Battlefield Hardline, Taken King, Blops3, Battlefront, R6S, as well as H5 then there was Doom, Overwatch and Battleborn so far this this year with more to come on BF1, TF2, CoD IW and MWR all competing for a piece of the Multiplayer market in the space of a year. Sales of these games alone indicate that the competition is far more fierce than it was in 07. People need to stop trying to rewrite history.
>
>
> Says the guy who just literally ignored half of the big MP games that were around from 07-09.

I was referring to console FPS but I could add third person shooters and sports titles if you like hell I could add GTA but that would just reinforce my statement even further.

5369

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> > > 2533274796863799;5352:
> > > I don’t get how people are so dense on this subject. Sprint being removed would only appeal to the so-called Halo-vets. Simultaneously, it would just further diminish the declining player base because the typical gamer expects sprint now. That’s an unavoidable fact.
> > >
> > > People have this stupid misconception that Halo’s been declining because of added features, but the reality is that they’re the only thing keeping the franchise alive to compete against the much larger ocean of FPS competition now. Nostalgia’s great, but go play MCC if you want it. H2 was my favorite game of all time, but I can still see the reality.
> >
> >
> > Looks at Overwatch and CS GO’s insane popularity as well as DOOM’s massive amount of popularity and praise for not having/emphasizing sprint, sighs heavily. Also another go play the MCC dismissal…maybe I’ll just go grab a whiteboard to keep track of all of these.
>
>
> Overwatch is stale. It will be dead soon enough. It’s multiconsole as well so not very comparable. DOOM is massively popular? I loved that game for a few weeks, then came right back to Halo. If anyone has a link to current populations I’d honestly like to see it. Google is giving me no luck. But I’m pretty damn sure DOOM is dying quickly, so not the best example.

Not DOOM mp, but DOOM as a game itself. It only had negative press going up to its release because of the betas and everything and suddenly you couldn’t go 3-4 days without hearing how amazing it was. I’m also not comparing anything based off of population, just stating that these games enjoy success despite not having what is apparently expected in FPS games.

Halo 5 isn’t exactly insanely popular either and we have no way of knowing where it stands due to MS removing the most played games section in the store. Halo 5 boasted better retention than Reach and 4, but those games both had abysmal retention so, while an improvement, it still wasn’t much to beat.

> 2533274921982810;5368:
> > 2535411589973028;5367:
> > > 2533274921982810;5366:
> > > Lol at people saying H3 had the same competition, litteraly the only other multiplayer FPS In 07-08 were MW, Unreal, tournament 3, Team Fortress on the Orange Box then WAW in 08, MW3 was 09.
> > > 2015 alone you have Battlefield Hardline, Taken King, Blops3, Battlefront, R6S, as well as H5 then there was Doom, Overwatch and Battleborn so far this this year with more to come on BF1, TF2, CoD IW and MWR all competing for a piece of the Multiplayer market in the space of a year. Sales of these games alone indicate that the competition is far more fierce than it was in 07. People need to stop trying to rewrite history.
> >
> >
> > Says the guy who just literally ignored half of the big MP games that were around from 07-09.
>
>
> I said FPS I could add third person shooters and sports titles of you like o could add GTA but that would just reinforce my statement even further.

You left out Bad Company, which also enjoyed some popularity and it was MW2 that exploded. You also had Bad Company 2. Halo 3 competed with games over several years so I think the comparisons are pretty valid considering it retained everything despite GTA, and CoD exploding in popularity as well as Battlefield on consoles.

It’s interesting you list all those games as fierce competition though considering Hardline has less users than BF4 IIRC, Black Ops 3 basically destroyed Halo 5 as soon as it launched. Battlefront beat it before everyone came to their senses. You say this competition is fierce, but really only a few of the games you mentioned have really had any staying power. I haven’t heard a darn thing about Battleborn since its release, Everyone loves to mention how Doom is dying (hint it’s SP focused and kills Halo 5 in that regard), TF 2 is legitimate, but TF 1 driedbup super fast. BF1 is legit and so is CoD, but the Remaster will probably split CoD more than Halo. Really it’s more or less same number of impactful games they have to compete with since I’m sure that we’re leaving out a lot of games here regardless by restricting it to FPS.

5370

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> > > > > > > > The Removal of this thread will make halo halo again.
> > > > > > > > I mean seriously C’mon…who are you really trying to convince? I tell you what!.. is not working.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then we need to try harder, this thread isn’t dying anytime soon. If h6 comes out and still has sprint this will get moved to the h6 section, it will probably pass the elite thread before h6 comes out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do we try harder?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep on this thread, keep providing solid and statistic based claims showing why halo dosn’t need sprint
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I understand all that. but who’s to say that there isn’t enough claims on this thread already. We need someone who has direct contact with 343 to present all this and see what they actually say. otherwise there will never be a solution for this. We can argue amongst ourselves all day everyday but will never come to a conclusion as a group because we are brain washed to be selfish!!! PLUS no one here has access to make adjustment to the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > But that’s what the forums are for. For these discussions as well as other ones. Just because 343 doesn’t often check their own forums (which is extremely irritating) it doesn’t mean we can’t have a thoughtful discussion and try to work out compromises that we can agree on.
> >
> >
> > But once we do agree on something…what then? we need to put this -Yoink- on their(343) lap, HOW? should be the question…all we are doing now is dancing and beating around the bush. Lets knock down their doors!!!Raid style.
>
>
> 343 know about the issues with sprint, they’ve even made their own statements on why it was implemented to begin with and I’m sure you wouldn’t like their reasons. In short, “it’s expected” is one of their quotes. The issue is 1. 343 simply could care less if it actually is hurting the game 2. They may not see it and therefore running blind and 3. They’re to stubborn to listen and are going to continue forcing their version of halo until they’re absolutely forced to or risk having the franchise shut down. The only other thing I could point up is maybe sprint isn’t the main issue and that too could be why 343 continues adding it, the thing is there’s way to many things to take into account for halos downfall and it really can’t be pin pointed at sprint. Armor abilities have also been a constant, continuously adding more new guns to the sandbox making it more redundant, then there’s the new art style changes game by game, and downgrades in features. H4 may have been bad but it’s UI and such were still better than h5s at least. H5 has taken “downgrade” to a whole new level if you ask me.

That’s the biggest obstacle that needs to be overcome: 343’s status as mediocre - or outright bad - game developers. Whether someone likes their games or not, their thought process when making a game is crazy.

Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.

5371

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> > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;5338:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274864863166;5337:
> > > > > > > > > The Removal of this thread will make halo halo again.
> > > > > > > > > I mean seriously C’mon…who are you really trying to convince? I tell you what!.. is not working.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then we need to try harder, this thread isn’t dying anytime soon. If h6 comes out and still has sprint this will get moved to the h6 section, it will probably pass the elite thread before h6 comes out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How do we try harder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep on this thread, keep providing solid and statistic based claims showing why halo dosn’t need sprint
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand all that. but who’s to say that there isn’t enough claims on this thread already. We need someone who has direct contact with 343 to present all this and see what they actually say. otherwise there will never be a solution for this. We can argue amongst ourselves all day everyday but will never come to a conclusion as a group because we are brain washed to be selfish!!! PLUS no one here has access to make adjustment to the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But that’s what the forums are for. For these discussions as well as other ones. Just because 343 doesn’t often check their own forums (which is extremely irritating) it doesn’t mean we can’t have a thoughtful discussion and try to work out compromises that we can agree on.
> > >
> > >
> > > But once we do agree on something…what then? we need to put this -Yoink- on their(343) lap, HOW? should be the question…all we are doing now is dancing and beating around the bush. Lets knock down their doors!!!Raid style.
> >
> >
> > 343 know about the issues with sprint, they’ve even made their own statements on why it was implemented to begin with and I’m sure you wouldn’t like their reasons. In short, “it’s expected” is one of their quotes. The issue is 1. 343 simply could care less if it actually is hurting the game 2. They may not see it and therefore running blind and 3. They’re to stubborn to listen and are going to continue forcing their version of halo until they’re absolutely forced to or risk having the franchise shut down. The only other thing I could point up is maybe sprint isn’t the main issue and that too could be why 343 continues adding it, the thing is there’s way to many things to take into account for halos downfall and it really can’t be pin pointed at sprint. Armor abilities have also been a constant, continuously adding more new guns to the sandbox making it more redundant, then there’s the new art style changes game by game, and downgrades in features. H4 may have been bad but it’s UI and such were still better than h5s at least. H5 has taken “downgrade” to a whole new level if you ask me.
>
>
> That’s the biggest obstacle that needs to be overcome: 343’s status as mediocre - or outright bad - game developers. Whether someone likes their games or not, their thought process when making a game is crazy.
>
> Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.

Well I would say the reasoning for sprint was definitely lazy and them taking the easy way out. I’m still pissed that they used the Halo feedback program as evidence which you can only sign up for through waypoint and then dismiss a waypoint poll as biased when it directly contradicts their findings (which is why the polls can’t be trusted).

but this is why we’re here now, hoping they listen for Halo 6 or you know, are open to discuss it more.

5372

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> > > > > > > > 2533274864863166;5340:
> > > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;5338:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274864863166;5337:
> > > > > > > > > > The Removal of this thread will make halo halo again.
> > > > > > > > > > I mean seriously C’mon…who are you really trying to convince? I tell you what!.. is not working.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then we need to try harder, this thread isn’t dying anytime soon. If h6 comes out and still has sprint this will get moved to the h6 section, it will probably pass the elite thread before h6 comes out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How do we try harder?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep on this thread, keep providing solid and statistic based claims showing why halo dosn’t need sprint
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand all that. but who’s to say that there isn’t enough claims on this thread already. We need someone who has direct contact with 343 to present all this and see what they actually say. otherwise there will never be a solution for this. We can argue amongst ourselves all day everyday but will never come to a conclusion as a group because we are brain washed to be selfish!!! PLUS no one here has access to make adjustment to the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s what the forums are for. For these discussions as well as other ones. Just because 343 doesn’t often check their own forums (which is extremely irritating) it doesn’t mean we can’t have a thoughtful discussion and try to work out compromises that we can agree on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But once we do agree on something…what then? we need to put this -Yoink- on their(343) lap, HOW? should be the question…all we are doing now is dancing and beating around the bush. Lets knock down their doors!!!Raid style.
> > >
> > >
> > > 343 know about the issues with sprint, they’ve even made their own statements on why it was implemented to begin with and I’m sure you wouldn’t like their reasons. In short, “it’s expected” is one of their quotes. The issue is 1. 343 simply could care less if it actually is hurting the game 2. They may not see it and therefore running blind and 3. They’re to stubborn to listen and are going to continue forcing their version of halo until they’re absolutely forced to or risk having the franchise shut down. The only other thing I could point up is maybe sprint isn’t the main issue and that too could be why 343 continues adding it, the thing is there’s way to many things to take into account for halos downfall and it really can’t be pin pointed at sprint. Armor abilities have also been a constant, continuously adding more new guns to the sandbox making it more redundant, then there’s the new art style changes game by game, and downgrades in features. H4 may have been bad but it’s UI and such were still better than h5s at least. H5 has taken “downgrade” to a whole new level if you ask me.
> >
> >
> > That’s the biggest obstacle that needs to be overcome: 343’s status as mediocre - or outright bad - game developers. Whether someone likes their games or not, their thought process when making a game is crazy.
> >
> > Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.
>
>
> Well I would say the reasoning for sprint was definitely lazy and them taking the easy way out. I’m still pissed that they used the Halo feedback program as evidence which you can only sign up for through waypoint and then dismiss a waypoint poll as biased when it directly contradicts their findings (which is why the polls can’t be trusted).
>
> but this is why we’re here now, hoping they listen for Halo 6 or you know, are open to discuss it more.

Frankly, at this point, I hoping for the third of UEG Tex’s possibilities: that the franchise gets to the point where they’re forced to change. Since there’s no indication of sales for the franchise getting any better in the future, it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

5373

I’m watching my kids play overwatch right now… I am impressed by how intentional all the design choices come across.

it further cements my belief that halo needs to split its campaign and competitive online multiplayer. Sprint works well in story settings, so lets have an expansive and epic campaign akin to Borderlands where players can feel like spartans. Package that with classic firefight.

Then we can have Halo multiplayer as its own release where arena style gameplay is the offering of the day, with other class based outings in there as well (I can’t be the only one who thought loadouts were a great idea for asymmetrical objective games that were just poorly done, right?)

5374

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> > > > > > > > > > 2533275035781111;5338:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274864863166;5337:
> > > > > > > > > > > The Removal of this thread will make halo halo again.
> > > > > > > > > > > I mean seriously C’mon…who are you really trying to convince? I tell you what!.. is not working.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then we need to try harder, this thread isn’t dying anytime soon. If h6 comes out and still has sprint this will get moved to the h6 section, it will probably pass the elite thread before h6 comes out.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How do we try harder?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keep on this thread, keep providing solid and statistic based claims showing why halo dosn’t need sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand all that. but who’s to say that there isn’t enough claims on this thread already. We need someone who has direct contact with 343 to present all this and see what they actually say. otherwise there will never be a solution for this. We can argue amongst ourselves all day everyday but will never come to a conclusion as a group because we are brain washed to be selfish!!! PLUS no one here has access to make adjustment to the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But that’s what the forums are for. For these discussions as well as other ones. Just because 343 doesn’t often check their own forums (which is extremely irritating) it doesn’t mean we can’t have a thoughtful discussion and try to work out compromises that we can agree on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But once we do agree on something…what then? we need to put this -Yoink- on their(343) lap, HOW? should be the question…all we are doing now is dancing and beating around the bush. Lets knock down their doors!!!Raid style.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 343 know about the issues with sprint, they’ve even made their own statements on why it was implemented to begin with and I’m sure you wouldn’t like their reasons. In short, “it’s expected” is one of their quotes. The issue is 1. 343 simply could care less if it actually is hurting the game 2. They may not see it and therefore running blind and 3. They’re to stubborn to listen and are going to continue forcing their version of halo until they’re absolutely forced to or risk having the franchise shut down. The only other thing I could point up is maybe sprint isn’t the main issue and that too could be why 343 continues adding it, the thing is there’s way to many things to take into account for halos downfall and it really can’t be pin pointed at sprint. Armor abilities have also been a constant, continuously adding more new guns to the sandbox making it more redundant, then there’s the new art style changes game by game, and downgrades in features. H4 may have been bad but it’s UI and such were still better than h5s at least. H5 has taken “downgrade” to a whole new level if you ask me.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s the biggest obstacle that needs to be overcome: 343’s status as mediocre - or outright bad - game developers. Whether someone likes their games or not, their thought process when making a game is crazy.
> > >
> > > Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.
> >
> >
> > Well I would say the reasoning for sprint was definitely lazy and them taking the easy way out. I’m still pissed that they used the Halo feedback program as evidence which you can only sign up for through waypoint and then dismiss a waypoint poll as biased when it directly contradicts their findings (which is why the polls can’t be trusted).
> >
> > but this is why we’re here now, hoping they listen for Halo 6 or you know, are open to discuss it more.
>
>
> Frankly, at this point, I hoping for the third of UEG Tex’s possibilities: that the franchise gets to the point where they’re forced to change. Since there’s no indication of sales for the franchise getting any better in the future, it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

Unless Halo 6 seriously impresses me I will buy it used just to finish Chief’s story and probably stop playing. Game just doesn’t hold the appeal for me anymore.

> 2533274855279867;5373:
> I’m watching my kids play overwatch right now… I am impressed by how intentional all the design choices come across.
>
> it further cements my belief that halo needs to split its campaign and competitive online multiplayer. Sprint works well in story settings, so lets have an expansive and epic campaign akin to Borderlands where players can feel like spartans. Package that with classic firefight.
>
> Then we can have Halo multiplayer as its own release where arena style gameplay is the offering of the day, with other class based outings in there as well (I can’t be the only one who thought loadouts were a great idea for asymmetrical objective games that were just poorly done, right?)

Issue is Halo has always maintained gameplay across modes. By making it so that there’s 3 different variations in gameplay based on what you’re playing you will confuse and frustrate the various bases. It again turns into trying to satisfy everyone and -Yoink!- them off instead.

5375

I’m not outright saying I oppose the idea of separating Campaign and Multiplayer, but what is the perceived benefit exactly?

5376

> 2533274819567236;5370:
> Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.

To be honest, I always like to imagine that the developers just laugh at all these armchair designers thinking they could design a more successful game. Let’s be realistic: we are in a bubble, discussing gameplay design as if gameplay depth was the be-all and end-all of making a successful game. But it’s not. Making a successful game is all about making a game that appeals to a wide range of people, and that wide range of people includes much more than people interested in the ultimate competitive game. Sometimes those things overlap, but if you look at the triple-A shooter market, you’ll see that more often they don’t. Other triple-A developers? They are probably far more sympathetic to 343i’s decisions than we are.

5377

Added advantage. Without it, the game scores will always be 1-1

5378

> 2533274825830455;5376:
> > 2533274819567236;5370:
> > Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.
>
>
> To be honest, I always like to imagine that the developers just laugh at all these armchair designers thinking they could design a more successful game. Let’s be realistic: we are in a bubble, discussing gameplay design as if gameplay depth was the be-all and end-all of making a successful game. But it’s not. Making a successful game is all about making a game that appeals to a wide range of people, and that wide range of people includes much more than people interested in the ultimate competitive game. Sometimes those things overlap, but if you look at the triple-A shooter market, you’ll see that more often they don’t. Other triple-A developers? They are probably far more sympathetic to 343i’s decisions than we are.

Yeah, I’d imagine if you asked other triple-A devs about that thought process they’d say that they understand the reasoning. Though I also doubt they would go about things the same way.

I believe most triple-A devs know that you don’t make a game based more what people expect than what works for the game. Modern Warfare differentiated itself despite any genres norms. Destiny set itself apart and, even though it used many genre norms, it was a new IP that could build its core around those things from the very start. Overwatch obviously said “-Yoink- it” to seemingly every genre norm and it’s taking the gaming world by storm.

Gameplay comes first and player expectations come second. 2007 Infinity Ward knew that, Bungie knows that, and Blizzard knows that. That’s why they can dominate the market.

But 343 is here trying to force certain mechanics into a franchise that just wasn’t built for them. They’re trying to keep Halo the same in some aspects while changing it in ways that don’t meld well with the parts of Halo people expect. It just won’t work that way.

5379

> 2533274825830455;5376:
> > 2533274819567236;5370:
> > Including a mechanic based on whether or not it’s expected rather than its effect on gameplay is very bad game design. I can only imagine that that way of thinking is laughable among other developers.
>
>
> To be honest, I always like to imagine that the developers just laugh at all these armchair designers thinking they could design a more successful game. Let’s be realistic: we are in a bubble, discussing gameplay design as if gameplay depth was the be-all and end-all of making a successful game. But it’s not. Making a successful game is all about making a game that appeals to a wide range of people, and that wide range of people includes much more than people interested in the ultimate competitive game. Sometimes those things overlap, but if you look at the triple-A shooter market, you’ll see that more often they don’t. Other triple-A developers? They are probably far more sympathetic to 343i’s decisions than we are.

have you ever watched an interview with the new Gears dev? I wish 343 would show so much passion and respect for Halo as they do for Gears!

5380

> 2535440283237581;5304:
> > 2533274911186826;5300:
> > > 2535440283237581;5298:
> > > > 2533274911186826;5294:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274831961512;5171:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274911186826;4984:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535440283237581;4981:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274911186826;4980:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep sprint. Slightly alter it however.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, why keep it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, how would you slightly alter it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It shouldn’t be removed. It’s an evolution that has already been made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps decrease speed. Increase time it takes to reach full speed. Or make it an armor ability. Anything to your liking so your problem can be solved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s avoid terms that describe changes as improvements and instead outline what the changes do, shall we? So what are the effects that adding Sprint to Halo has brought?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything to my liking so that my issues with Sprint would be resolved? Alright, let’s tweak it so that players can still fire weapons/throw grenades/melee while doing so and make it where players can sprint in any direction, rather than just forward. That’ll pretty much do it for me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like your idea, but I think that should just be an armor ability. For instance, let’s change Dexterity. When equipped, you may fire your weapons, throw grenades (Which increases the throwing distances) and melee while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure we learned from Halo 4 that perks and AAs in competitive play was a very very bad idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn’t learn.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The very lack of them inside arena and breakout and the modes still being praised and nobody talking about them or asking for them back should show nobody really misses them or wants them back too badly.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alas, that is only a mere assumption. When you get poles to prove that, only then I think 343 will think about removing it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It’s a educated and fact based assumption as he is right and we haven’t seen anyone ask for there return
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Very little people want it removed. You are included in this small minority. Firstly, your post is contradictory. How can an assumption be fact based without proof? The actual definition of the word assumption is, “A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.”
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Second, Sprint is different in Halo 5 than it is in Halo 4,and not just because of the shelf recharge delay. In Halo 4, they simply added a limited sprint mechanic on with no thoughts to balancing. This made maps have to be bigger, but it didn’t add anything to the game, since engaging an enemy still behaved generally the same way as it did in previous Halos, except now people could escape more easily.
> > > > > > > > > > However, in Halo 5 they decided to make it part of a whole set of new movement abilities, so that it didn’t feel tacked on like it did in Halo 4. I enjoyed Halo 4 when it released, and I enjoyed the Halo 5 beta, but after playing Btb yesterday and going from Halo 3 Valhalla to Halo 4 Ragnarock, the addition of sprint just felt clunky, and nothing like how it is in Halo 5, which is why I think halo 5 needs to keep sprint, because otherwise the other movement abilities, while useful, won’t be as effective as they can be when used with sprint. So long as the maps are designed with all the movement abilities in mind, sprint shouldn’t be an issue. Halo 5 needs sprint, Halo 4 didn’t.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And that’s why I think you and everyone who disagrees with this post, is wrong.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So your assumption is greater than my assumption? great argument buddy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That’s hypocritical. If i’m trying to prove my point, that makes it an invalid argument? I’m not saying “Hey i’m right, what you say doesn’t matter.”
> > > > > > > > And that is not an assumption. That’s a subjective post.
> > > > > > > > So yes, what a great argument “bud.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You claimed that I’m in the minority with no proof right after telling me that I was just making assumptions, that sound pretty hypocritical to me
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Once again, it’s a subjective post. I’ll explain to your level, meaning it’s what “I think.”
> > > > > > If you pay a little more attention you can find this quote “I think” Straight out of context.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Against your claim, which you think is right no matter what.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Very little people want it removed. You are included in this small minority.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t see any “I think” or “in my opinion” here…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are looking at the wrong post.
> > >
> > >
> > > You made an assumption in the post I quoted, didn’t acknowledge it as such or give any sources (credible or otherwise), and proceeded to say he was wrong for making any assumptions using available data.
> > >
> > > How am I looking at the “wrong” post?
> >
> >
> > You expect me to provide evidence that you are looking at the wrong post? Go ahead and tell me how I can share that with you as it will be most intriguing. I most certainly did acknowledge it I’m afraid. Correction on your part: “Unavailable data”.
> >
> > I said anti-sprinters were in the minority as an opinion. Not a claimed fact on my part. Don’t assume.
>
>
> Simply direct me to the post I should be looking at?
>
> Regarding the post I quoted, you went back and edited where you stated anti-Sprinters were in the minority (adding in “I think”), but it still shows what you originally wrote in the quotes/responses. There were no indications that you meant anything other than a stated fact until you edited it.
>
> No, I meant available data. You can’t really form an opinion/make assumptions on a topic without any information on it. You pointing out that not all data is available only regurgitates the notion that it is an assumption (and I’d already stated it as such).

I didn’t edit anything. Your utterly fruitless to speak to. This isn’t even related to the original post. Rather it’s your own desire to prove your right and share a piece of your lacking knowledge. Just stop, if not I will.

5381

> 2533274911186826;5380:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535440283237581;4981:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274911186826;4980:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep sprint. Slightly alter it however.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First off, why keep it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, how would you slightly alter it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It shouldn’t be removed. It’s an evolution that has already been made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps decrease speed. Increase time it takes to reach full speed. Or make it an armor ability. Anything to your liking so your problem can be solved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s avoid terms that describe changes as improvements and instead outline what the changes do, shall we? So what are the effects that adding Sprint to Halo has brought?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything to my liking so that my issues with Sprint would be resolved? Alright, let’s tweak it so that players can still fire weapons/throw grenades/melee while doing so and make it where players can sprint in any direction, rather than just forward. That’ll pretty much do it for me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like your idea, but I think that should just be an armor ability. For instance, let’s change Dexterity. When equipped, you may fire your weapons, throw grenades (Which increases the throwing distances) and melee while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure we learned from Halo 4 that perks and AAs in competitive play was a very very bad idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn’t learn.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The very lack of them inside arena and breakout and the modes still being praised and nobody talking about them or asking for them back should show nobody really misses them or wants them back too badly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Alas, that is only a mere assumption. When you get poles to prove that, only then I think 343 will think about removing it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It’s a educated and fact based assumption as he is right and we haven’t seen anyone ask for there return
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Very little people want it removed. You are included in this small minority. Firstly, your post is contradictory. How can an assumption be fact based without proof? The actual definition of the word assumption is, “A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.”
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Second, Sprint is different in Halo 5 than it is in Halo 4,and not just because of the shelf recharge delay. In Halo 4, they simply added a limited sprint mechanic on with no thoughts to balancing. This made maps have to be bigger, but it didn’t add anything to the game, since engaging an enemy still behaved generally the same way as it did in previous Halos, except now people could escape more easily.
> > > > > > > > > > > However, in Halo 5 they decided to make it part of a whole set of new movement abilities, so that it didn’t feel tacked on like it did in Halo 4. I enjoyed Halo 4 when it released, and I enjoyed the Halo 5 beta, but after playing Btb yesterday and going from Halo 3 Valhalla to Halo 4 Ragnarock, the addition of sprint just felt clunky, and nothing like how it is in Halo 5, which is why I think halo 5 needs to keep sprint, because otherwise the other movement abilities, while useful, won’t be as effective as they can be when used with sprint. So long as the maps are designed with all the movement abilities in mind, sprint shouldn’t be an issue. Halo 5 needs sprint, Halo 4 didn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why I think you and everyone who disagrees with this post, is wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So your assumption is greater than my assumption? great argument buddy
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That’s hypocritical. If i’m trying to prove my point, that makes it an invalid argument? I’m not saying “Hey i’m right, what you say doesn’t matter.”
> > > > > > > > > And that is not an assumption. That’s a subjective post.
> > > > > > > > > So yes, what a great argument “bud.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You claimed that I’m in the minority with no proof right after telling me that I was just making assumptions, that sound pretty hypocritical to me
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Once again, it’s a subjective post. I’ll explain to your level, meaning it’s what “I think.”
> > > > > > > If you pay a little more attention you can find this quote “I think” Straight out of context.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Against your claim, which you think is right no matter what.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Very little people want it removed. You are included in this small minority.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t see any “I think” or “in my opinion” here…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are looking at the wrong post.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You made an assumption in the post I quoted, didn’t acknowledge it as such or give any sources (credible or otherwise), and proceeded to say he was wrong for making any assumptions using available data.
> > > >
> > > > How am I looking at the “wrong” post?
> > >
> > >
> > > You expect me to provide evidence that you are looking at the wrong post? Go ahead and tell me how I can share that with you as it will be most intriguing. I most certainly did acknowledge it I’m afraid. Correction on your part: “Unavailable data”.
> > >
> > > I said anti-sprinters were in the minority as an opinion. Not a claimed fact on my part. Don’t assume.
> >
> >
> > Simply direct me to the post I should be looking at?
> >
> > Regarding the post I quoted, you went back and edited where you stated anti-Sprinters were in the minority (adding in “I think”), but it still shows what you originally wrote in the quotes/responses. There were no indications that you meant anything other than a stated fact until you edited it.
> >
> > No, I meant available data. You can’t really form an opinion/make assumptions on a topic without any information on it. You pointing out that not all data is available only regurgitates the notion that it is an assumption (and I’d already stated it as such).
>
>
> I didn’t edit anything. Your utterly fruitless to speak to. This isn’t even related to the original post. Rather it’s your own desire to prove your right and share a piece of your lacking knowledge. Just stop, if not I will.

You did edit it though. I saw it when you initially posted it and if you look at others’ quoting that post, it shows that.

You said I was looking at the wrong post, I went along with it and asked which post you’d like me to go off of, and you chose not to do so. I don’t see how I’m at fault, especially since you’re the one resorting to insults and “threatening” to drop the discussion.