The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > Keep sprint. Slightly alter it however.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > First off, why keep it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Secondly, how would you slightly alter it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It shouldn’t be removed. It’s an evolution that has already been made.
> > > > Perhaps decrease speed. Increase time it takes to reach full speed. Or make it an armor ability. Anything to your liking so your problem can be solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > Let’s avoid terms that describe changes as improvements and instead outline what the changes do, shall we? So what are the effects that adding Sprint to Halo has brought?
> > >
> > > Anything to my liking so that my issues with Sprint would be resolved? Alright, let’s tweak it so that players can still fire weapons/throw grenades/melee while doing so and make it where players can sprint in any direction, rather than just forward. That’ll pretty much do it for me.
> >
> >
> > I like your idea, but I think that should just be an armor ability. For instance, let’s change Dexterity. When equipped, you may fire your weapons, throw grenades (Which increases the throwing distances) and melee while sprinting.
>
>
> I am pretty sure we learned from Halo 4 that perks and AAs in competitive play was a very very bad idea.

I didn’t learn.

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> > > > > > > No, just no.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hate how sprint is basically discouraged in this game.
> > > > > > > 1. If you sprint while under fire it slows you down to a halt.
> > > > > > > 2. If you decide to sprint after your shield has recently been damaged, your regeneration RESETS instead of just pausing to wait till you walk again.
> > > > > > > 3. Retreating is basically impossible when in a firefight because while your getting shot in the back. You can’t run even though your spamming the sprint button like a mad man. Mind you this is a spartan super soldier. “hey guys I’m in a fight I can’t win. I’ll just walk away like I’M NOT DYING…”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then you die, it’s kind of the point. It’s a shooting game, not a running away game. If your loosing a firefight it’s your fault , the other player won and deserves the kill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This is Halo, not Call of Duty. The person with the faster reaction doesn’t always deserve the kill. Shield and sprint add dynamics that actually make the game challenging beyond who can pull the trigger first. The person who gets the kill deserves the kill.
> > > > >
> > > > > On another note, I can’t believe this topic is still going- undoubtedly getting kicked around and forced to continue by smurf accounts; creating the false appearance that this issue is bigger than it really actually is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you think that’s a smurf account then your missing something. And the person who shoots first Dosent deserve the kill, the other player can turn around and win via superior marksmanship. Not running away
> > >
> > >
> > > This issue isn’t ANYWHERE near as big of an issue as you and the rest of the anti-sprint minority have attempted to make it appear… Tactical retreat and living to fight another engagement is a legitimate strategy that sprint supports.
> >
> >
> > Hmm, you have any facts to back this? You realize that a large majority of Halos population has left between Reach -5, which could be blamed on many things, but what all these games have in common Sprint/Abilities. Personally imo, they simplify the game, which is why many want them to stay.
>
>
> I could ask you for facts regarding the opposing viewpoint on the same thing, especially since anti-sprinters created this thread. Sure there is a reduced amount of overall players on Halo since Halo 3; proportionate to the overall percentage of gamers across all games and consoles. But that’s hardly an issue with sprint. Competition from other games and consoles widens and expands the once narrow gaming market. Halo is still doing just fine overall in sales and population since Reach.
>
> The inclusion or exclusion of sprint doesn’t make or break the sales, let alone population of Halo games… Nor would removing sprint make Halo feel any more or less like “Halo” again. I respect and understand why it is that some of you don’t appreciate sprint… What I don’t appreciate is when a vocal minority tries to over represent their opinions and even try to push them as “facts.” Like Frankie said in the pre-launch cycle of the MCC, “-Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t,” however they try to cater to the MAJORITY when it comes to providing gamers what they want. So when vocal minorities succeed in the over representation of their issues it creates problems IMO. There’s a reason why Halo book writers are discouraged from coming to the forums (Well, quite a few reasons actually, but vocal minorities often tend to skew things for the rest of us)

Firstly, I said it could be blamed on many things, just outlined what Reach-5 had in common.
Unless I played a Halo game with just sprint, I wouldn’t know. Now, have you played any of the newer CoDs? I am going to just be blunt, my problem is with the ability/sprint combo, it makes the game simple and generic.
I won’t bother vocalizing my opinion like the others, because if a game gets to the point where I dislike it, I move onto to something better. I can always rent a sequel to try again.

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> > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > >
> > >
> > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > >
> > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> >
> >
> > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
>
>
> So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.

No you didn’t interpret wrong @tsassi… Many of those hardcore anti-sprinters do everything they can in order to try and make it appear that sprint is supposedly a much larger issue than it actually is… When backed into a corner like that they’ll change the subject and try to focus on something else. They’re trying their best to over represent their issue with Halo in an attempt to instigate the change they want see…

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> > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > >
> > >
> > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > >
> > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> >
> >
> > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
>
>
> So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.

No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.

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> > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > >
> > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> >
> >
> > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
>
>
> No you didn’t interpret wrong @tsassi… Many of those hardcore anti-sprinters do everything they can in order to try and make it appear that sprint is supposedly a much larger issue than it actually is… When backed into a corner like that they’ll change the subject and try to focus on something else.

You’re making baseless assumptions again.

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> > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > >
> > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> >
> >
> > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
>
>
> No you didn’t interpret wrong @tsassi… Many of those hardcore anti-sprinters do everything they can in order to try and make it appear that sprint is supposedly a much larger issue than it actually is… When backed into a corner like that they’ll change the subject and try to focus on something else. They’re trying their best to over represent their issue with Halo in an attempt to instigate the change they want see…

Geez dude it’s like you see anyone who doesn’t support sprint as the illuminati with hidden agendas. We’ve been on topic for well over 200 pages. Like holy freaking fallacy batman…we’ve given reasons as to why we think it slows down gameplay and have provided evidence as well as some conjecture that sprint may be a reason that people have lost interest since Halo is not as unique. Points you have barely refuted at all and now just say we say whatever to fit our agenda. You’re dodging questions, making baseless assumptions, and strawmanning. You’ve triple dipped in fallacies bro.

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> > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > >
> > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> >
> >
> > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
>
>
> No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.

Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.

You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”

@tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.

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Tbh I’ve been reading this topic for quite a while and I’ve yet to see any hard facts from either side, just a lot opinions and statements peddled as facts backed by nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

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> > > > > > > Keep sprint. Slightly alter it however.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First off, why keep it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, how would you slightly alter it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It shouldn’t be removed. It’s an evolution that has already been made.
> > > > > Perhaps decrease speed. Increase time it takes to reach full speed. Or make it an armor ability. Anything to your liking so your problem can be solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Let’s avoid terms that describe changes as improvements and instead outline what the changes do, shall we? So what are the effects that adding Sprint to Halo has brought?
> > > >
> > > > Anything to my liking so that my issues with Sprint would be resolved? Alright, let’s tweak it so that players can still fire weapons/throw grenades/melee while doing so and make it where players can sprint in any direction, rather than just forward. That’ll pretty much do it for me.
> > >
> > >
> > > I like your idea, but I think that should just be an armor ability. For instance, let’s change Dexterity. When equipped, you may fire your weapons, throw grenades (Which increases the throwing distances) and melee while sprinting.
> >
> >
> > I am pretty sure we learned from Halo 4 that perks and AAs in competitive play was a very very bad idea.
>
>
> I didn’t learn.

The very lack of them inside arena and breakout and the modes still being praised and nobody talking about them or asking for them back should show nobody really misses them or wants them back too badly.

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> > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > >
> > >
> > > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
> >
> >
> > No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.
>
>
> Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.
>
> You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”
>
> @tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.

“Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right.”

Ok bro, just let me know when you’re done strawmanning and assuming. I’ll be here to discuss the issues when/if you do.

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> > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> >
> >
> > .
>
>
> Geez dude it’s like you see anyone who doesn’t support sprint as the illuminati with hidden agendas. We’ve been on topic for well over 200 pages. Like holy freaking fallacy batman…we’ve given reasons as to why we think it slows down gameplay and have provided evidence as well as some conjecture that sprint may be a reason that people have lost interest since Halo is not as unique. Points you have barely refuted at all and now just say we say whatever to fit our agenda. You’re dodging questions, making baseless assumptions, and strawmanning. You’ve triple dipped in fallacies bro.

Never said anything about the illuminati - that’s fallacy #1 from you.

Fallacy #2: This thread has NOT been on topic for all of its 200+ pages- the few of you anti-sprinters have successfully forced it to continue to go on and on for as long as it has… And you routinely and aggressively go after anyone with an opposing view on the matter but that doesn’t make it a productive and on-topic thread either.

Fallacy #3: Your opinions do not equate to evidence, they just don’t (somebody has to say it). I respect that you feel the way you do about sprint- but a key fallacy and problem with this thread is you fail to recognize that your opinions do not constitute facts. Since you think your opinions are facts and you’re aggressively asserting them as such, all you can do is argue with people who feel otherwise- not constructively debate with them.

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> Tbh I’ve been reading this topic for quite a while and I’ve yet to see any hard facts from either side, just a lot opinions and statements peddled as facts backed by nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

Map time measurements and quotes from articles talking about actual metrics and keeping those metrics which then is a mathematical equation, are opinions stated as facts based on anecdotal evidence?

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> > > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.
> >
> >
> > Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.
> >
> > You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”
> >
> > @tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.
>
>
> “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right.”
>
> Ok bro, just let me know when you’re done strawmanning and assuming. I’ll be here to discuss the issues when/if you do.

I just directly quoted you and pointed out why @tsassi and I had an issue with what you stated. You literally said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” which simply cannot be defended because it cannot be true. You’re now changing the subject which is exactly what I predicted would happen.

Don’t get frustrated at me for quoting you… At least I quoted you accurately. However I did not say, “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right,” so if/when you may be ready to discuss this again- I would appreciate it if you could start by accurately quoting me.

5215

> 2625759425619671;5214:
> > 2533274819567236;5211:
> > > 2625759425619671;5208:
> > > > 2533274819567236;5205:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;5201:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;5200:
> > > > > > > 2533274825830455;5197:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5195:
> > > > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.
> > >
> > > You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”
> > >
> > > @tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.
> >
> >
> > “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right.”
> >
> > Ok bro, just let me know when you’re done strawmanning and assuming. I’ll be here to discuss the issues when/if you do.
>
>
> I just directly quoted you and pointed out why @tsassi and I had an issue with what you stated. You literally said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” which simply cannot be defended because it cannot be true. You’re now changing the subject which is exactly what I predicted would happen.
>
> However I did not say, “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right,” so whenever you may be ready to discuss this someday I would appreciate it if you could start by accurately quoting me.

While his claim may be baseless and possibly wrong.
What makes your claim that it can’t be true, any more right than his?

5216

> 2625759425619671;5212:
> > 2533274831961512;5207:
> > > 2625759425619671;5204:
> > > > 2533274825830455;5201:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;5200:
> > > > > > 2533274825830455;5197:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5195:
> > > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> >
> >
> > Geez dude it’s like you see anyone who doesn’t support sprint as the illuminati with hidden agendas. We’ve been on topic for well over 200 pages. Like holy freaking fallacy batman…we’ve given reasons as to why we think it slows down gameplay and have provided evidence as well as some conjecture that sprint may be a reason that people have lost interest since Halo is not as unique. Points you have barely refuted at all and now just say we say whatever to fit our agenda. You’re dodging questions, making baseless assumptions, and strawmanning. You’ve triple dipped in fallacies bro.
>
>
> Never said anything about the illuminati - that’s fallacy #1 from you.
>
> Fallacy #2: This thread has NOT been on topic for all of its 200+ pages- the few of you anti-sprinters have successfully forced it to continue to go on and on for as long as it has… And you routinely and aggressively go after anyone with an opposing view on the matter but that doesn’t make it a productive and on-topic thread either.
>
> Fallacy #3: Your opinions do not equate to evidence, they just don’t (somebody has to say it). I respect that you feel the way you do about sprint- but a key fallacy and problem with this thread is you fail to recognize that your opinions do not constitute facts. Since you think your opinions are facts and you’re aggressively asserting them as such, all you can do is argue with people who feel otherwise- not constructively debate with them.

I think you may have taken the illuminati thing too seriously, but you literally said on the last page or two that there must be Smurfs or secondary accounts keeping this thread alive rather than believe the discussion has just been ongoing.

We also haven’t been aggressively attacking anyone or at least most of the more active people haven’t. The worst thing I’ve done is call people out on not giving an argument for why sprint should stay because “I like it, it should stay” doesn’t exactly contribute to debating a point now, does it?

I never said my opinion was evidence I said conjecture and our experiences have been the basis of our points and grievances against sprint. This topic isn’t really easy to just pull up facts for since it is so clearly subjective, but we brought up our experiences, and potential conjectures because it may offer an explanation, which leads to discussion on the topic, which is what the forum is for. That’s the reason we have this thread still ongoing. I get that some people on both sides are more or less useless because they either don’t provide support or just attack other users for disagreeing, but you can’t really say that’s what a majority of this thread has been. Were it so the mods probably would’ve locked it long ago. Tsassi has been around this thread a lot from what I can tell so it can’t be that awful.

5217

Why would you not want to sprint?? It’s a mechanic that’s in every shooter, and very well should be a staple. They didn’t have sprint in older halos, as well as CoD’s because of technological and creative limits. Sprint would make every halo even better, in my opinion. I guess I understand as a Halo vet how you might want sprint removed for familiarity, but it’s a design that I feel is necessary in today’s shooters.

5218

> 2625759425619671;5214:
> > 2533274819567236;5211:
> > > 2625759425619671;5208:
> > > > 2533274819567236;5205:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;5201:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;5200:
> > > > > > > 2533274825830455;5197:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5195:
> > > > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.
> > >
> > > You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”
> > >
> > > @tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.
> >
> >
> > “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right.”
> >
> > Ok bro, just let me know when you’re done strawmanning and assuming. I’ll be here to discuss the issues when/if you do.
>
>
> I just directly quoted you and pointed out why @tsassi and I had an issue with what you stated. You literally said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” which simply cannot be defended because it cannot be true. You’re now changing the subject which is exactly what I predicted would happen.
>
> Don’t get frustrated at me for quoting you… At least I quoted you accurately. However I did not say, “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right,” so whenever you may be ready to discuss this someday I would appreciate it if you could start by accurately quoting me.

And I said I didn’t mean what tsassi thought I meant. I misspoke.

Am I to assume you’re gonna hunker down with this strawman or are you ready for a discussion about sprint? Perhaps you need time to research the subject though, since your posts indicate that you know little of it.

5219

> 2533274795123910;5213:
> > 2533274921982810;5209:
> > Tbh I’ve been reading this topic for quite a while and I’ve yet to see any hard facts from either side, just a lot opinions and statements peddled as facts backed by nothing more than anecdotal evidence.
>
>
> Map time measurements and quotes from articles talking about actual metrics and keeping those metrics which then is a mathematical equation, are opinions stated as facts based on anecdotal evidence?

Clearly I’ve not seen them then… If you remember the page number I would be happy to go back and have a look but yes I stand by my comment on everything I’ve read so far.

5220

> 2533274913350232;5217:
> Why would you not want to sprint?? It’s a mechanic that’s in every shooter, and very well should be a staple. They didn’t have sprint in older halos, as well as CoD’s because of technological and creative limits. Sprint would make every halo even better, in my opinion. I guess I understand as a Halo vet how you might want sprint removed for familiarity, but it’s a design that I feel is necessary in today’s shooters.

Sprint has been around since the 90’s. Older Halos didn’t have it because they said it screwed up the pacing of the game (and here we are now with that exact complaint). It’s in other games because it works well with other games. 343 themselves can’t even give gameplay related reasons for its inclusion, only “just because”.

5221

> 2533274795123910;5215:
> > 2625759425619671;5214:
> > > 2533274819567236;5211:
> > > > 2625759425619671;5208:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;5205:
> > > > > > 2533274825830455;5201:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5200:
> > > > > > > > 2533274825830455;5197:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;5195:
> > > > > > > > > Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You’re making an assumption that the forum population is at all a reflection of the total population of people who buy Halo games. Consider that the forums are likely biased towards people who have problems with the game because people who don’t have problems are less likely to go to forums.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another completely unjustifiable assumption you are making is that sprint is the reason Halo has become less popular. Since sprint was introduced in Reach, there have been dozens of other things that could’ve contributed to player disappointment including other new gameplay mechanics, changes in campaign, and game customization options. It’s completely impossible to attribute the decrease in popularity to any single thing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m not assuming anything. It’s the opposite side saying sprint isn’t as big an issue as we’re making it out to be. They’re the ones putting forth assumptions. My argument doesn’t live or die based on how big a problem people find sprint. Others bring it up as a straw man because they have nothing to actually argue with or support their point. If they did, that - and only that - would be what they present.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, did I interpret your comment wrong? You’re not implying in the quoted post that sprint is the main reason people got fed up and moved on? If not, then that’s my bad.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I meant to say it was a reason, not the reason.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Okay I’m gonna have to call you out on that one- you’re trying to fall back into the whole “subject change,” instead of admitting and owning up to what you said earlier.
> > > >
> > > > You said, and I quote, “Of course most of them don’t complain about sprint. They’re playing the game (I’d also imagine most don’t use mic either), so obviously they don’t mind that much. Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise. You know why you don’t hear so many people complaining anymore? They got fed up and moved on, hence the lowest sales in the series and a low population. You must be new the forums if you think this was never a big deal.”
> > > >
> > > > @tsassi’s issue with what you’re implying is the exact same as mine- you said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise” which is a completely baseless claim and not even close to reality. Unlike what you’re implying, the reality is that most people haven’t gotten fed up with Halo and deserted the franchise because of sprint. And look, I understand why you don’t like sprint- I really do. I don’t feel the need prey on every single point you and the rest of the anti-sprinters bring up on the issue. You’ve got a right to form your own opinions and this would be a much less contentious (and more productive) thread if all the anti-sprinters felt the same way about pro-sprinters instead of aggressively attacking them for having an opposing viewpoint. But above all else, I really don’t think it’s right for you to continue to try and over represent your opinions on the matter to make it appear to be the “single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” because sprint is just not even close to being that big of a deal in the community. Maybe it’s that big of a deal for you, and I would totally respect that if you could just keep this issue in perspective.
> > >
> > >
> > > “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right.”
> > >
> > > Ok bro, just let me know when you’re done strawmanning and assuming. I’ll be here to discuss the issues when/if you do.
> >
> >
> > I just directly quoted you and pointed out why @tsassi and I had an issue with what you stated. You literally said, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” which simply cannot be defended because it cannot be true. You’re now changing the subject which is exactly what I predicted would happen.
> >
> > However I did not say, “Your baseless claim is wrong. My baseless claim is right,” so whenever you may be ready to discuss this someday I would appreciate it if you could start by accurately quoting me.
>
>
> While his claim may be baseless and possibly wrong.
> What makes your claim that it can’t be true, any more right than his?

What is so baseless about my claim? I’m not trying to argue with him about his anti-sprint viewpoint. All I said is that he’s over representing his viewpoint (as well as many of the anti-sprint crowd in this thread) and over representing this issue itself. My issue is the mentally from whence this quote stems from, “Sprint has been a talked about issue for years and the single most controversial issue ever in the franchise.”

Sprint may very well be a HUGE issue for him, but that doesn’t mean it’s, “the most controversial issue ever in the franchise,” for everyone else that plays Halo. That’s my whole issue here. This thread is being trucked along by people who are asserting their opinions on this issue as facts- opinions are not equal to facts. I’m willing to admit that my opinions on sprint are opinions (not facts) and I have listened to the opposing side when they reply (which is ideally how constructive debates are supposed to take place). I’m sitting back and observing that anti-sprinters aren’t always doing the same. For instance, when people say “I think they should keep sprint,” anti-sprinters jump on them for not providing evidence or points that can be countered. I’m not going to name any names here, but some anti-sprinters here even call those opinions “worthless.” Look, not everyone needs to come in here with evidence every time they post their opinions in a forum like this and they should be respected for feeling that way even if their opinion doesn’t line up with the anti-sprint crowd…

All I’m asking is for here is that people just keep things in perspective, is that really too much to ask?