The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
4321

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> it speeds up the overall pace of the game

Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.

4322

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> > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
>
>
> Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.

1.I have been playing since Halo C.E, so watch what you say.
2.It actually does speed up the game speed due to the base options allowing for smart movement such as spartan charge, clamber and ground pound all of which contribute to heightening the speed of the game, so please, at least try to bring a better argument next time as your facts have zero credible evidence and your argument is sloppy, hence I overall no longer respect or recognize the significance of your opinion, therefore causing any future options provided by you on this matter shall be considered invalid or void
3.You don’t even play halo 5, so please do not use its forums to comment on matters that don’t concern you

4323

> 2533274833093422;4322:
> > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> >
> >
> > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
>
>
> 2.It actually does speed up the game speed due to the base options allowing for smart movement such as spartan charge, clamber and ground pound all of which contribute to heightening the speed of the game, so please, at least try to bring a better argument next time as your facts have zero credible evidence and your argument is sloppy, hence I overall no longer respect or recognize the significance of your opinion, therefore causing any future options provided by you on this matter shall be considered invalid or void

All movement related mechanics a player has access to are taken into account by map designers when they design the maps.
For instance, the fastest time your going to get places from another, is dependant on what the map designer thinks is a good time for you to get there. In order to get a proper time, the distance needed to be travelled is based on the fastest by default available way a player can move.
So, if you do not have sprint in the game and the base speed was 10 m/s and the map designer says you can go from A to B in 10 seconds, then the distance is 100 metres. Now if you then have a game with sprint and the same scenario, but sprint is 20 m/s but the time remains at 10 seconds, then the distance is 200 metres.
As a result, sprint does no get you places “faster”. You get there in the fastest time possible decided by the map designer.

Clamber follows the same suit. If a map designer doesn’t want you to get over a wall or reach a certain place. Actions in the map making will be taken in order to prevent you from clambering, such as higher walls, ceilings or wedged edges that can’t be clambered on. As a result, clamber does not allow you to scale walls you shouldn’t be able to jump over, because the map designer just allows you to scale those walls either way.

Measurements.
Map design Article.

So, would you now please elaborate how movement mechanics taken into account with map design, i.e you now knowing that map design allows you access to different routes and not the abilities themselves allowing it, speed up the pacing of the gameplay?

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> > 2533274833093422;4322:
> > > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> > >
> > >
> > > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
> >
> >
> > 2.It actually does speed up the game speed due to the base options allowing for smart movement such as spartan charge, clamber and ground pound all of which contribute to heightening the speed of the game, so please, at least try to bring a better argument next time as your facts have zero credible evidence and your argument is sloppy, hence I overall no longer respect or recognize the significance of your opinion, therefore causing any future options provided by you on this matter shall be considered invalid or void
>
>
> All movement related mechanics a player has access to are taken into account by map designers when they design the maps.
> For instance, the fastest time your going to get places from another, is dependant on what the map designer thinks is a good time for you to get there. In order to get a proper time, the distance needed to be travelled is based on the fastest by default available way a player can move.
> So, if you do not have sprint in the game and the base speed was 10 m/s and the map designer says you can go from A to B in 10 seconds, then the distance is 100 metres. Now if you then have a game with sprint and the same scenario, but sprint is 20 m/s but the time remains at 10 seconds, then the distance is 200 metres.
> As a result, sprint does no get you places “faster”. You get there in the fastest time possible decided by the map designer.
>
> Clamber follows the same suit. If a map designer doesn’t want you to get over a wall or reach a certain place. Actions in the map making will be taken in order to prevent you from clambering, such as higher walls, ceilings or wedged edges that can’t be clambered on. As a result, clamber does not allow you to scale walls you shouldn’t be able to jump over, because the map designer just allows you to scale those walls either way.
>
> Measurements.
> Map design Article.
>
> So, would you now please elaborate how movement mechanics taken into account with map design, i.e you now knowing that map design allows you access to different routes and not the abilities themselves allowing it, speed up the pacing of the gameplay?

The mechanic allows for faster paced gameplay due to map scaling, hence if you account for the ratio, average map traversal time and the consideration of how the map sizer are similar to that of those from past halo games you will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives an overall faster TTK for both teams due to in animation vulnerability, this speeds up the rate in which a opposite team player can be reached and eliminated, hence progressing the gaining of points and the overall speed of the average game time

4325

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> > 2533274795123910;4323:
> > > 2533274833093422;4322:
> > > > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > > > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.It actually does speed up the game speed due to the base options allowing for smart movement such as spartan charge, clamber and ground pound all of which contribute to heightening the speed of the game, so please, at least try to bring a better argument next time as your facts have zero credible evidence and your argument is sloppy, hence I overall no longer respect or recognize the significance of your opinion, therefore causing any future options provided by you on this matter shall be considered invalid or void
> >
> >
> > All movement related mechanics a player has access to are taken into account by map designers when they design the maps.
> > For instance, the fastest time your going to get places from another, is dependant on what the map designer thinks is a good time for you to get there. In order to get a proper time, the distance needed to be travelled is based on the fastest by default available way a player can move.
> > So, if you do not have sprint in the game and the base speed was 10 m/s and the map designer says you can go from A to B in 10 seconds, then the distance is 100 metres. Now if you then have a game with sprint and the same scenario, but sprint is 20 m/s but the time remains at 10 seconds, then the distance is 200 metres.
> > As a result, sprint does no get you places “faster”. You get there in the fastest time possible decided by the map designer.
> >
> > Clamber follows the same suit. If a map designer doesn’t want you to get over a wall or reach a certain place. Actions in the map making will be taken in order to prevent you from clambering, such as higher walls, ceilings or wedged edges that can’t be clambered on. As a result, clamber does not allow you to scale walls you shouldn’t be able to jump over, because the map designer just allows you to scale those walls either way.
> >
> > Measurements.
> > Map design Article.
> >
> > So, would you now please elaborate how movement mechanics taken into account with map design, i.e you now knowing that map design allows you access to different routes and not the abilities themselves allowing it, speed up the pacing of the gameplay?
>
>
> The mechanic allows for faster paced gameplay due to map scaling, hence if you account for the ratio, average map traversal time and the consideration of how the map sizer are similar to that of those from past halo games you will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives an overall faster TTK for both teams due to in animation vulnerability, this speeds up the rate in which a opposite team player can be reached and eliminated, hence progressing the gaining of points and the overall speed of the average game time

And that is what they don’t like, the vulnerablility of sprint

4326

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> > 2533274795123910;4323:
> > > 2533274833093422;4322:
> > > > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > > > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2.It actually does speed up the game speed due to the base options allowing for smart movement such as spartan charge, clamber and ground pound all of which contribute to heightening the speed of the game, so please, at least try to bring a better argument next time as your facts have zero credible evidence and your argument is sloppy, hence I overall no longer respect or recognize the significance of your opinion, therefore causing any future options provided by you on this matter shall be considered invalid or void
> >
> >
> > All movement related mechanics a player has access to are taken into account by map designers when they design the maps.
> > For instance, the fastest time your going to get places from another, is dependant on what the map designer thinks is a good time for you to get there. In order to get a proper time, the distance needed to be travelled is based on the fastest by default available way a player can move.
> > So, if you do not have sprint in the game and the base speed was 10 m/s and the map designer says you can go from A to B in 10 seconds, then the distance is 100 metres. Now if you then have a game with sprint and the same scenario, but sprint is 20 m/s but the time remains at 10 seconds, then the distance is 200 metres.
> > As a result, sprint does no get you places “faster”. You get there in the fastest time possible decided by the map designer.
> >
> > Clamber follows the same suit. If a map designer doesn’t want you to get over a wall or reach a certain place. Actions in the map making will be taken in order to prevent you from clambering, such as higher walls, ceilings or wedged edges that can’t be clambered on. As a result, clamber does not allow you to scale walls you shouldn’t be able to jump over, because the map designer just allows you to scale those walls either way.
> >
> > Measurements.
> > Map design Article.
> >
> > So, would you now please elaborate how movement mechanics taken into account with map design, i.e you now knowing that map design allows you access to different routes and not the abilities themselves allowing it, speed up the pacing of the gameplay?
>
>
> The mechanic allows for faster paced gameplay due to map scaling, hence if you account for the ratio, average map traversal time and the consideration of how the map sizer are similar to that of those from past halo games you will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives an overall faster TTK for both teams due to in animation vulnerability, this speeds up the rate in which a opposite team player can be reached and eliminated, hence progressing the gaining of points and the overall speed of the average game time

Maps in Halo 5 are actually bigger than maps in the games without games. They are also built for the sprint speed so, if anything, you traverse the maps at a slower pace than previous games since you’re obviously not always sprinting. That being the case, it means players are not always traversing at the proper speed the map was built for which causes encounters to happen less frequently than previous games (whether it be a lot or very little), which obviously results in games progressing slower.

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> > 2533274795123910;4323:
> > > 2533274833093422;4322:
> > > > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > > > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
>
>
> The mechanic allows for faster paced gameplay due to map scaling, hence if you account for the ratio, average map traversal time and the consideration of how the map sizer are similar to that of those from past halo games you will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives an overall faster TTK for both teams due to in animation vulnerability, this speeds up the rate in which a opposite team player can be reached and eliminated, hence progressing the gaining of points and the overall speed of the average game time

Bolded: Design of the map in accordance to mechanics. The same pacing and faster can be achieved in previous games on maps that would be designed for faster pacing.

Italics: The ratio of what? I can’t find two things in this post to take a ratio of.

Average map traversal time and map sizes: Let’s assume that maps are actually smaller in terms of units and thus your average map traversal time is very low. This is still not a result of sprint being in the game but design metrics changing. Creating a map with low map traversal times is up to the designer, not what mechanics are implemented into the game.

Which maps in Halo 5 are in size similar to those of previous games?

“I will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives and overall faster TTK etc?”
I’m sorry, but I can’t make anything out of this, it feels like an incomplete sentence.

Overall:

You have yet to elaborate how the mechanics themselves outside of map design lead to faster game pacing, in an open environment, so to speak.
As I said, map design allows you to do things, with mechanics taken into account. Meaning, whatever pacing you have in Halo 5 can be achieved in previous games, and faster. As a result, the pacing is not a result of the mechanics, but other aspects of the gameplay, one large contributor being the map design.

4328

Lol it seems that my post a page back was ignored, I think with that being said the OP of this thread is officially done, this is not my monster anymore.
Go no-sprint community! dont let these ignorant, pro-sprint people smother our message.
Hopefully one day well be able to coexist within the same halo game but until 343 takes action we must not be silenced -says in the arbiter’s voice-
Speaking of which, IM FAIRLY certain this has gotten a glance or two by a 343 employee at some point or another, if you’re still following this GIVE US BACK PLAYABLE ELITES TOO. Y’know in a world where people actually did the right thing, the sequals of games would take what worked and what was loved about the predecessor and expand upon that, removing what was unsuccessful in the previous game couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh sprint coughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Now, that you guys have people who actually love sprint, I still reccomend that it be accessable in your next game to accomodate for those people but compromizes have to be made if you are gonna win back halo fan’s hearts. Hopefully one day you’ll get it, I just hope it’s not before I decide to give up on halo, which given probably wont be anytimes soon but I thought I would put that out there.
welp, like I said I’m done.

4329

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> > 2533274833093422;4324:
> >

This argument is easily settled. Slayer games in Halo 5 last to 50 kills, as do Slayer games in Halo 3. If you find a player who has played both games and take, say, their last thirty Slayer matches in both games, you can calculate the average match duration in both games and compare them. If you’re worried about sampling from one player, as you should be, you can find a bunch of different players. This is a situation where the resulting averages are likely to be very close, so it’s also necessary to take into account the error in the sample, because the times might fall within a standard deviation of each other, making the results inconclusive.

Either we find that one game has higher average match duration, or we find a result that is inconclusive, which may imply that there is no real difference in match duration. Either way, there’s no point going back and forth about it when we can do some science. This is something I may or may not end up doing myself, but I’m throwing the idea out there for anyone else who cares way too much about being right on the internet.

4330

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> > > 2533274833093422;4324:
> > >
>
>
> This argument is easily settled. Slayer games in Halo 5 last to 50 kills, as do Slayer games in Halo 3. If you find a player who has played both games and take, say, their last thirty Slayer matches in both games, you can calculate the average match duration in both games and compare them. If you’re worried about sampling from one player, as you should be, you can find a bunch of different players. This is a situation where the resulting averages are likely to be very close, so it’s also necessary to take into account the error in the sample, because the times might fall within a standard deviation of each other, making the results inconclusive.
>
> Either we find that one game has higher average match duration, or we find a result that is inconclusive, which may imply that there is no real difference in match duration. Either way, there’s no point going back and forth about it when we can do some science. This is something I may or may not end up doing myself, but I’m throwing the idea out there for anyone else who cares way too much about being right on the internet.

I looked something similar up during Halo 4. Think Halo 3 matches were about a minute longer.

I’d however hardly say that would prove the mechanics themselves provide a significant boost to the pacing or gow fast a match plays. Given that map design and weapon designs are different. Let’s not forget spawn systems either. Halo 3 had its moments, but there have been plenty of moments in Halo 5 as well.

Two extreme examples to better showcase the point.

Halo 3 Octagon 4v4 first to 50. Would play rather quickly, no?
Halo 5 A BTB map 4v4 first to 50 woulf be significantly slower, no?

Then we have examples such as SWAT with mostly instant kill times, those matches too are quick.

I never dabbled that much into proper 2v2 in Halo CE, or ever for that matter. If we’re however to trust those knowing what they talk about, Halo CE 2v2 goes to 50 while it now goes to 25. Now of course I don’t know match times but given that information, can we get examples of times for Halo CE 2v2s? Could we assume that if it’s less than double of current first to 25 matches that tge pacing in CE is faster?

In short, I’m more confident that certain attributes of the games play a larger role on pacing than mechanics introduced around which the attributes are molded to get a certain pace / flow. The mechanics “force” changes, but the “attributes” are the ultimate pace deciders, and that part is up to the designers, no?

4331

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> > 2533274833093422;4324:
> > > 2533274795123910;4323:
> > > > 2533274833093422;4322:
> > > > > 2533274846700578;4321:
> > > > > > 2533274833093422;4320:
> > > > > > it speeds up the overall pace of the game
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Except it doesn’t. This has been proven countless times, in this thread and otherwise. It’s amazing how kids still don’t understand the difference between "player speed
> > > > > and “game speed”. Just because your spartan can move really fast at the touch of a button, doesn’t mean that the pacing is all of sudden sped up, as well. It’s not. It’s actually the opposite. The pacing of modern Halos (Reach-H5) is actually much slower than that of traditional Halos (CE-H3) due to the slowed down base movement speed, as well as the addition of numerous easy-mode DEFENSIVE mechanics, such as sprint, which make bad players feel good. They draw out engagements and make matches slow and boring. CE and H2 are objectively the two fastest (paced) Halos ever. Fax.
> >
> >
> > The mechanic allows for faster paced gameplay due to map scaling, hence if you account for the ratio, average map traversal time and the consideration of how the map sizer are similar to that of those from past halo games you will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives an overall faster TTK for both teams due to in animation vulnerability, this speeds up the rate in which a opposite team player can be reached and eliminated, hence progressing the gaining of points and the overall speed of the average game time
>
>
> Bolded: Design of the map in accordance to mechanics. The same pacing and faster can be achieved in previous games on maps that would be designed for faster pacing.
>
> Italics: The ratio of what? I can’t find two things in this post to take a ratio of.
>
> Average map traversal time and map sizes: Let’s assume that maps are actually smaller in terms of units and thus your average map traversal time is very low. This is still not a result of sprint being in the game but design metrics changing. Creating a map with low map traversal times is up to the designer, not what mechanics are implemented into the game.
>
> Which maps in Halo 5 are in size similar to those of previous games?
>
> “I will see that the skill gap as well as the split second concept between jump times and distance scaling you will find that the mechanic gives and overall faster TTK etc?”
> I’m sorry, but I can’t make anything out of this, it feels like an incomplete sentence.
>
> Overall:
>
> You have yet to elaborate how the mechanics themselves outside of map design lead to faster game pacing, in an open environment, so to speak.
> As I said, map design allows you to do things, with mechanics taken into account. Meaning, whatever pacing you have in Halo 5 can be achieved in previous games, and faster. As a result, the pacing is not a result of the mechanics, but other aspects of the gameplay, one large contributor being the map design.

He’s also been leaving out that you can not shoot and sprint simultaneously which means, unlike previous Halos, you can’t fire when covering what would be considered a large gap meaning you’re completely vulnerable while you can’t fire back, turning the situation on its head from previous games. Yea, the animation before being able to fire is a killer in duels, but that takes skill out not puts skill in as you are inherently disadvantaged, something Halo 5 seems to thrive off of. Putting you in a completely terrible situation and then you have to pull out all of the stops just to even have a chance at surviving and if the other guy is anywhere near half-decent it does not matter and you still die because super powerful autos are a thing.

Also I hesitate to call Spartan Charge smart movement from his argument either. It has aim assist, meaning it’s pretty freakin hard to miss that once you’re in range. I have gone to jump height spartan charging a guy due to this. It really doesn’t add any skill.

4332

> 2535414876585185;1:
> Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> Thoughts? :3

I sorta agree, but I still think it should stay in the campaign. However removing it in multiplier would make it more strategic.

(Also what’s -Yoink-? Is this some kind of inside joke??)

4333

> 2535466923611736;4332:
> > 2535414876585185;1:
> > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > Thoughts? :3
>
>
> I sorta agree, but I still think it should stay in the campaign. However removing it in multiplier would make it more strategic.
>
> (Also what’s -Yoink-? Is this some kind of inside joke??)

They’re never going to do that. Movement should be consistent across all game modes. Casuals will jump into the multiplayer after playing campaign and not understand why they can’t sprint. It’ll turn some people off.

4334

I like how people are just upset about sprint because you can’t fire, even though jogging, which what you do in all the halo games, and sprinting, are two different things, or that they complain about map size, which usually doesnt matter. Most of the complants I read, do not make sense to me, And I’ve played the halo games my whole life, and all but Halo 2 online. Taking sprint out of the game wouldn’t change anything, but slow the overall pace of the game, which isn’t a bad thing, but most people only like fast paced gameplay. So removing that can take a chunk out of the growing Halo community. I met someone who wanted to remove 4, 4 good game mechanics out of halo, and instead, add one medicore one.

4335

> 2533274908278305;4334:
> I like how people are just upset about sprint because you can’t fire, even though jogging, which what you do in all the halo games, and sprinting, are two different things, or that they complain about map size, which usually doesnt matter. Most of the complants I read, do not make sense to me, And I’ve played the halo games my whole life, and all but Halo 2 online. Taking sprint out of the game wouldn’t change anything, but slow the overall pace of the game, which isn’t a bad thing, but most people only like fast paced gameplay. So removing that can take a chunk out of the growing Halo community. I met someone who wanted to remove 4, 4 good game mechanics out of halo, and instead, add one medicore one.

Map sizes do matter. Different sizes allow different player numbers and promote certain playstyles.

Pacing isn’t dependant on sprint. They can create a much faster paced game without any of the current abilities said to increase pacing, than the pacing of Halo 5.

4336

Before the anti-sprinters begin bashing me, understand that I’m one of you guys at heart. But I feel the need to play devil’s advocate in an attempt to further this discussion and make the pro sprint community look more respectable than what it currently is. Feel free to criticize my points, but with a mature tone (like Naqser and Tsassi).

Although sprint is an important mechanic that impacts current game play, it would be pointless to remove it for halo 6 in its entirety. I think it’s current implementation can be heavily tweaked to make sprint more suitable for halo’s game play, but attempting to remove it would force 343 to redo everything they worked on to make sprint usable and not game breaking. You would be wasting a lot of time with that instead of focussing on some of the even greater issues with halo 5, like thrust and overall weapon balancing.

Unfortunately, sprint is by nature a defensive
mechanic, and it does limit creativity in many indirect ways, like forcing players to face forward in order to gather enough speed for a long jump. But here’s something I’d like to propose for sprint: how about we make the mechanic actually function like sprinting in real life (a speed boost for a shorter time period like 4 to 5 seconds, with a significantly faster speed) but allow it to activate regardless of whatever direction you face, allowing you to sprint sideways as an example? You can potentially boost creativity by encouraging more map awareness when players attempt to escape gunfights and even allow for more skill jumps that require more distance to cover (assuming that jump height also marginally increases). The time it takes players to bring up their weapon after sprinting should also be instant to ensure that players can attack as quickly as possible when they encounter an enemy or reach their destination from sprinting. But keep the charge up time in order to reach terminal velocity so that players can’t immediately back out of a losing gunfight.

There are also ways to mitigate sprint’s downsides in its current form in halo 5 such as creating map design that encourages aggression and map cycling more so than map control and sitting back to wait for your opponents to rush you, increasing map flow and the number of encounters. You can also increase individual empowerment (by making the starting magnum stronger) to punish players who are ill prepared in a gunfight, decreasing the long average time of encounters (as a result of good defensive mechanics).

People also seem to forget the real issue in the prolonging of gunfights, that being the current thruster pack. You can use it at any moment, the distance covered is huge with little time spent in the animation, and is an unpredictable strafe maneuver accessible in a push of a button. I will attempt to discuss that in a future thread, but sprint in its current state should be the least of your worries. Competent map design can very easily mitigate sprint’s negative attributes in current game play, but too bad 343 isn’t capable of such a feat.

4337

Knock Knock
Who’s there?
Population numbers Keepo

4338

> 2533274968707582;4336:
> Before the anti-sprinters begin bashing me, understand that I’m one of you guys at heart. But I feel the need to play devil’s advocate in an attempt to further this discussion and make the pro sprint community look more respectable than what it currently is. Feel free to criticize my points, but with a mature tone (like Naqser and Tsassi).
>
> Although sprint is an important mechanic that impacts current game play, it would be pointless to remove it for halo 6 in its entirety. I think it’s current implementation can be heavily tweaked to make sprint more suitable for halo’s game play, but attempting to remove it would force 343 to redo everything they worked on to make sprint usable and not game breaking. You would be wasting a lot of time with that instead of focussing on some of the even greater issues with halo 5, like thrust and overall weapon balancing.
>
> Unfortunately, sprint is by nature a defensive mechanic, and it does limit creativity in many indirect ways, like forcing players to face forward in order to gather enough speed for a long jump. But here’s something I’d like to propose for sprint: how about we make the mechanic actually function like sprinting in real life (a speed boost for a shorter time period like 4 to 5 seconds, with a significantly faster speed) but allow it to activate regardless of whatever direction you face, allowing you to sprint sideways as an example? You can potentially boost creativity by encouraging more map awareness when players attempt to escape gunfights and even allow for more skill jumps that require more distance to cover (assuming that jump height also marginally increases). The time it takes players to bring up their weapon after sprinting should also be instant to ensure that players can attack as quickly as possible when they encounter an enemy or reach their destination from sprinting. But keep the charge up time in order to reach terminal velocity so that players can’t immediately back out of a losing gunfight.
>
> There are also ways to mitigate sprint’s downsides in its current form in halo 5 such as creating map design that encourages aggression and map cycling more so than map control and sitting back to wait for your opponents to rush you, increasing map flow and the number of encounters. You can also increase individual empowerment (by making the starting magnum stronger) to punish players who are ill prepared in a gunfight, decreasing the long average time of encounters (as a result of good defensive mechanics).
>
> People also seem to forget the real issue in the prolonging of gunfights, that being the current thruster pack. You can use it at any moment, the distance covered is huge with little time spent in the animation, and is an unpredictable strafe maneuver accessible in a push of a button. I will attempt to discuss that in a future thread, but sprint in its current state should be the least of your worries. Competent map design can very easily mitigate sprint’s negative attributes in current game play, but too bad 343 isn’t capable of such a feat.

First off, heavily tweaking the existing Sprint mechanic like what you propose would focus time/resources on doing so whereas dropping the mechanic altogether would allow the devs to focus on other ways to spice up the gameplay. I don’t really see how you find ditching Sprint would require the same (or more) focus as modifying it.

As for your proposed changes to Sprint, I don’t see it as an improvement in any meaningful way. You say that allowing players to move faster in any direction will bolster creativity in its use. but how? If players still have to lower their weapon to Sprint, the only change here is that they can look behind them. They still can’t do anything differently in terms of tactics, the ability is still required to make certain jumps (players must relinquish control/choice of their weapons), and it creates a possibility for players to “Sprint-strafe” in a firefight to get close and beat down his/her opponent with ease. Essentially, this version of “Sprint” would maintain most/all of the existing mechanic’s flaws and add further issues.

What I think needs to be done is to remove all of the contemporary movement mechanics, take away factors that facilitate the “less mobility = more combat effectiveness” mentality (Sprint, Clamber, greater accuracy while crouched, etc.), and look to innovating on weapon/map design to expand on Halo’s gameplay without interfering with the harmony between movement and combat.

Examples:

  • Re-evaluate the weapon sandbox, remove/replace/alter redundant weapons, incorporate secondary uses/tactics for various weapons, and do these things in ways that make interplay more dynamic and interesting. Replace the Beam Rifle with the Focus Rifle, giving it a suppressing “stun” effect when shooting at the head? Scrap the DMR and Carbine, reintroducing the Needle Rifle and giving its super-combine a lingering AoE and/or allow it to super-combine on vehicles? Add a secondary ability to the Grav Hammer that creates a temporary grav lift field allowing it to be used as a key to certain routes on the map, become a significantly better melee weapon against vehicles than the Energy Sword, and creating the dynamic of redirecting projectiles like rockets (although this one could also be performed by a well-timed standard swing).
  • Incorporate more dynamic elements to further encourage map control. Buttons, shootable triggers, and timed intervals can be used for a plethora of things: extend/retract bridges, open/close doors, turn teleporters/grav lifts/man cannons on and off, raise and lower cover/platforms/water levels, increase/decrease gravity, the list goes on.
4339

Wow, an animation followed by a speed boost. PLZ nerf

4340

> 2533274908278305;4334:
> or that they complain about map size, which usually doesnt matter.

I cringed reading this.