The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > This is a silly topic. Back in the day it was acceptable. But not in 2016 in my opinion.
> >
> >
> > Why is it not acceptable in 2016? Games don’t need sprint to me successful in 2016.
>
>
> And same thing with not having sprint to be successful. Games should try to cater to all types of players so games like Halo should have the options of whether or not they can sprint. It should not be what one part of the community prefers over the other. They’re should be a searching preference where you search for games with other people with sprinting on or off (as well as other abilities) so that they don’t have to choose which part of the community they pass off.

Or games should be good enough to actually attract players on its own merit rather than changing itself to be a cookie cutter game, nothing exciting about the latter.

2942

Why is it that no-one makes some valid arguments or evidence to back up claims on the topic of a no-sprint halo? Personally I have no issue with anyone bringing up such things as map-stretching or sadbox hinderance on the part of sprint, but no-one seems to show i.e some map comparisons, measurements or something of similar caliber to actually back up these claims. Just because the game flow is different doesn’t mean that halo is “ruined” or “dead”. Custom games allow oppurtunity to design, play and manipulate the game to be played without sprint, so why not go try that out, and then with a fresh mind try to explain how the two game styles compare and how halo would benefit without the sprint mechanic. In these situations where halo is a very unstable franchise you should not be able to sucessfully propagate non-justified anecdotal evidence, just to make the game developers feel split and bow down for the sole reason that the fanbase are crybabies. I just ask anyone, with any opinion, to evaluate it on a fundemental level before posting it to the public. I am not criticising OP directly, or his/her opinion, but rather suggesting to take a step back, rewrite this forum post, and then get a healthy discussion going. Thanks!

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> Why is it that no-one makes some valid arguments or evidence to back up claims on the topic of a no-sprint halo? Personally I have no issue with anyone bringing up such things as map-stretching or sadbox hinderance on the part of sprint, but no-one seems to show i.e some map comparisons, measurements or something of similar caliber to actually back up these claims. ,Just because the game flow is different doesn’t mean that halo is “ruined” or “dead”. Custom games allow oppurtunity to design, play and manipulate the game to be played without sprint, so why not go try that out, and then with a fresh mind try to explain how the two game styles compare and how halo would benefit without the sprint mechanic. In these situations where halo is a very unstable franchise you should not be able to sucessfully propagate non-justified anecdotal evidence, just to make the game developers feel split and bow down for the sole reason that the fanbase are crybabies. I just ask anyone, with any opinion, to evaluate it on a fundemental level before posting it to the public. I am not criticising OP directly, or his/her opinion, but rather suggesting to take a step back, rewrite this forum post, and then get a healthy discussion going. Thanks!

It has been done.

Halo 3 Guardian vs Halo 4 Haven.

Bottom of page two

Halo 2 Midship vs Halo 5 Truth.

We’ve seen it in articles with map designers.

It’s there, believe me.

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> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.

The thing the OP doesn’t understand is if the take sprint out of the game the will just adjust maps to compensate for it.

2945

there is nothing wrong with sprint. People always find something to complain about.

2946

If you don’t want to sprint then don’t.

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> > > > Augmented super soldiers that can’t run. Hahaha yeah that makes sense.
> > > > Keep sprint
> > >
> > >
> > > They should be able to run. All the time. While shooting.
> > >
> > > What kind of supersoldier can only move quickly while going forwards and not shooting?
> >
> >
> > Okay well if that’s how you want it here’s how it’d work, you have your normal speed and you can shoot and throw nades and then if you start sprinting your reticule will bounce up and down makig aiming be harder from all the movement. Sounds good?
>
>
> No. That sounds terrible.

Exactly. That’s why people put their gun down when they run, it’s not that they can’t hold it up and shoot it’s just that their aim will be abysmal.

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> Id rather keep sprint.

I certainly have to agree with Noosa on this one. Without sprint, everything would take FOREVER. I am not a patient person.

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> > > > > Augmented super soldiers that can’t run. Hahaha yeah that makes sense.
> > > > > Keep sprint
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They should be able to run. All the time. While shooting.
> > > >
> > > > What kind of supersoldier can only move quickly while going forwards and not shooting?
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay well if that’s how you want it here’s how it’d work, you have your normal speed and you can shoot and throw nades and then if you start sprinting your reticule will bounce up and down makig aiming be harder from all the movement. Sounds good?
> >
> >
> > No. That sounds terrible.
>
>
> Exactly. That’s why people put their gun down when they run, it’s not that they can’t hold it up and shoot it’s just that their aim will be abysmal.

Spartans are not just “people”.

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> > Id rather keep sprint.
>
>
> I certainly have to agree with Noosa on this one. Without sprint, everything would take FOREVER. I am not a patient person.

Have you ever heard the phrase “there’s more than one way to skin a cat”?.

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> > > > > > > > sprint needs to stay.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah why? When someone makes a statement like this, I have yet to see an explanation as to why.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s just modern gaming.
> > > > > The majority of the gaming market wants sprint.
> > > > > More players = more money = more support.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s not an acceptable answer though. Why is it good for the game? That thought process is the reason any mechanic is included in games.
> > > >
> > > > Overwatch has taken the gaming world by storm and the people playing that don’t seem too upset about not sprinting. Plus, Halos sales have only decrease dwith the inclusion of sprint and the population has only gotten smaller, so your theory certainly isn’t applying to Halo.
> > >
> > >
> > > Overwatch is a game from a legendary studio that’s on three different platforms and was marketed to hell and back. Halo 5 is an exclusive title on a console that now plays host to Overwatch and countless other titles across many, many genres. The inclusion of sprint did not cause Halo’s sales to decline, it was an expanding market for FPS games and games general coinciding with other factors, like Steam finally getting out of its super broken buggy phase and people growing up and devoting their time to raising families, their careers, college, etc.
> > >
> > > Also regarding Overwatch, there’s a hypothetical scenario that I’ve been thinking about and would absolutely dread: Halo 6 removing WarZone and putting in some kind of Overwatch clone mode in its place. The removal of Sprint would give them a perfect reason to do so. I can already imagine them sitting in a meeting talking about it: “Well, we removed Sprint and all these other features, we have to have something to attract new people. What’s popular right now?”
> >
> >
> > Overwatch was still more populated than Halo 5 on the Xbox One. Before this week anyway. Halo 5 needed to be free to become more populated than Overwatch.
> >
> > It doesn’t matter what studio made Overwatch or what caused the decline in population for Halo. Those factors have no effect on his theory, which has already been proven to not apply to Halo.
>
>
> Those factors do have an affect on your ridiculous theory, though. One little game mechanic has a distinct correlation to the decline of a game’s popularity and population rather than a myriad of other interconnected factors doing the most harm? Really? That’s the kind of jumping-through-hoops logic that only the most delusionally nostalgic of people reach for.

I didn’t propose a theory. I said their was a correlation, which there is.

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> > > I agree, but i dont agree. the Pro is that halo will be more unique from other games, and be its originial version, which some people like.
> > > The con is that most of the games gamemodes are suppost to be fast pasted. and walking in a fast paced game seems… well hard to do.
> > >
> > > - GradeBoose
> >
> >
> > I don’t understand, what’s so hard about it?
>
>
> it wont really be a fast paced game. it will be like grandmas taking a walk. but they are in a war trying to kill eachover. And they are in mech powered suits with a AR and a pistol.
> -GradeBoose

Why would you think you would be slow though? Why can’t the devs just make you move… fast?

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> > Id rather keep sprint.
>
>
> I certainly have to agree with Noosa on this one. Without sprint, everything would take FOREVER. I am not a patient person.

Well, maps are already made bigger because of sprint, which cancels out the whole “getting from A to B faster” thing. So if anything, you’re traversing the maps slower than in previous games.

But what if I told you that no sprint wouldn’t actually result in you traversing areas slower? Probably sounds crazy right?

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> > > > > > > People that hate sprint with a passion either need to adapt, improve their aim or just stick with MCC where they can shoot slow spartan turtles all day long in order to pet their egos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Threads like this are just plain stupid
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for your well thought out insults. It really furthers the discussion to be had with sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So if sprint doesn’t help you run away from a bad encounter, what is it’s purpose then? Why even implement the mechanic into the game if you’re still having to optimize the maps around sprint?
> > >
> > >
> > > You cant sprint while getting shot at as it just slows you down and flinches the screen… So obviously if you dont have bad aim and can hit a sprinting target you should have no problems finishing off that kill. People are too stuck in the past and just want easy kills on spartan turtles.
> >
> >
> > Seriously…You’re just listing off the disadvantages/nerfs of sprint that discourages players from using the mechanic overall. Why not increase the base movement speed like Doom to not only increase the pace of the game, but eliminate the defensive properties of sprint? You can afford to chase an opponent now that you move at the same speed as he does, and you don’t have to put your gun down to try catching up to him.
> >
> > With an increased base movement speed, players now have a greater opportunity to actually outplay their opponents by creating difficult strafes that can be tough to keep up, increasing the skill gap in individual gunfights. You also increase the ability for players to pull off skill jumps from multiple directions without having to face forward on their screen to properly execute the jump. Players with strong map awareness can be awarded for being at an advantageous position than their opponents at a quicker time. I never really supported how slow Spartans moved in their base speed within the trilogy, which is why a speed like doom would be so beneficial in providing skillful and entertaining game play in halo.
>
>
> DOOM this, DOOM that… Go play DOOM and stop your crying.
>
> I outplay people constantly and utilize sprint in very tricky ways… You seem like one those try hard guys that rage quits after i sprint into a room to lure them into a ground pound. Coming onto waypoint and saying sprint kills the skill gap is absurd and completely false. A pro team would still destroy a team of noobs… Why? Because of the huge skill gap in this highly competitive game.

Again you don’t refute anything. Tell people to stop crying and go play a different game. Solid arguments bro.

Doom was critically praised for doing all those things differently and not just being another uninspired shooter. Halo is a Frankenstein and hasn’t done anything new or original or even remotely unique in a while now mp and the loadouts not included but even the mp has high movement speed at the very least.

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> I’ve been around since Halo 2 and I can say this, Sprint isn’t a problem, the people who whine about it are those who lack the ability to adapt to difficult/different situations. If you want to play Halo without Sprint go to MCC and quit whining, 343 aren’t going to remove sprint, nor should they, it’s a somewhat decent mechanic, if your reflexes can’t hit a sprinting target, it’s not the game mechanics fault. If you really want to remove something from Halo in Halo 6, remove the thrusters, ground pound and spartan charge. If sprint was the ONLY AA in Halo 6 I highly doubt it’d be too much of a problem, however in Halo 5, unlike Reach, not only do you spawn with sprint, you have an infinite supply of it, couple that with thruster packs, sliding, and Spartan Charge, and it completely breaks sprint AND the maps in-game. Sprint isn’t the problem, Thrusters are.

Just because you can say it doesn’t make you right. In your opinion thrusters are the problem. My problem also isn’t inherently with people sprinting and me having to hit them. My issue is how it breaks up the pace of the game with gaps of just sprinting around when you can just make the maps smaller or make base speed higher so now people get places faster while being always combat ready. Also, stop with the “quit whining or play a different game arguments.” Everyone has an opinion an you’re opening the door for people to do the same thing to you when you have an issue with the game.

Thrusters are also evasive and on a timer but they aren’t really gamebreaking if you ask me.

> 2533274949192941;2736:
> > 2533274797091891;24:
> > Maybe this is too radical, like poeple said a million times, make a classic playlist like in the old days. Lets just try maybe it is awesome
>
>
> community-split

Mechanics are also different from previous games so making a true classic playlist is impossible.

> 2535469944875913;2739:
> Hell no

How very informative and thought provoking…oh wait.

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Just gonna leave this here. Please shut up about sprint and all the other nonsense you people think are “killing Halo”.

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> > Id rather keep sprint.
>
>
> I certainly have to agree with Noosa on this one. Without sprint, everything would take FOREVER. I am not a patient person.

Go play a match of Halo 2 on sanctuary, lockout, or ascension and tell me that game takes forever or Halo 3 foundry, high ground, or guardian. They’ll take you just as long or may be even shorter than a match on truth, the rig, or empire.

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> > Why is it that no-one makes some valid arguments or evidence to back up claims on the topic of a no-sprint halo? Personally I have no issue with anyone bringing up such things as map-stretching or sadbox hinderance on the part of sprint, but no-one seems to show i.e some map comparisons, measurements or something of similar caliber to actually back up these claims. ,Just because the game flow is different doesn’t mean that halo is “ruined” or “dead”. Custom games allow oppurtunity to design, play and manipulate the game to be played without sprint, so why not go try that out, and then with a fresh mind try to explain how the two game styles compare and how halo would benefit without the sprint mechanic. In these situations where halo is a very unstable franchise you should not be able to sucessfully propagate non-justified anecdotal evidence, just to make the game developers feel split and bow down for the sole reason that the fanbase are crybabies. I just ask anyone, with any opinion, to evaluate it on a fundemental level before posting it to the public. I am not criticising OP directly, or his/her opinion, but rather suggesting to take a step back, rewrite this forum post, and then get a healthy discussion going. Thanks!
>
>
> It has been done.
>
> Halo 3 Guardian vs Halo 4 Haven.
>
> Bottom of page two
>
> Halo 2 Midship vs Halo 5 Truth.
>
> We’ve seen it in articles with map designers.
>
> It’s there, believe me.

How do Pitfall and Ragnarok/The Pit and Valhalla fall into this? Was this about smallest maps possible or just map scale in general? I dont know if you remember Reaper MC, but he has comparison videos of movement speeds across maps, and I tweeted Josh Holmes to see that base speeds from Halo 3- Halo 4 were roughly the same. Marginal difference, which is actually listed in one of your links.

In general, I’d agree that small maps in H4-H5 are larger than CE-H3. Not much larger, but still larger. In the case of something like Ragnarok, I get the general sense that people liked BTB in Halo 4. Possibly due to sprint?

Side note: Comparing Midship and Truth isnt exactly fair. Truth is inspired by Midship, but wasnt made to be a 1:1 remake. Its not the same vein as Heretic vs Midship.

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> > > > > > > > > sprint needs to stay.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah why? When someone makes a statement like this, I have yet to see an explanation as to why.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s just modern gaming.
> > > > > > The majority of the gaming market wants sprint.
> > > > > > More players = more money = more support.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s not an acceptable answer though. Why is it good for the game? That thought process is the reason any mechanic is included in games.
> > > > >
> > > > > Overwatch has taken the gaming world by storm and the people playing that don’t seem too upset about not sprinting. Plus, Halos sales have only decrease dwith the inclusion of sprint and the population has only gotten smaller, so your theory certainly isn’t applying to Halo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Overwatch is a game from a legendary studio that’s on three different platforms and was marketed to hell and back. Halo 5 is an exclusive title on a console that now plays host to Overwatch and countless other titles across many, many genres. The inclusion of sprint did not cause Halo’s sales to decline, it was an expanding market for FPS games and games general coinciding with other factors, like Steam finally getting out of its super broken buggy phase and people growing up and devoting their time to raising families, their careers, college, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Also regarding Overwatch, there’s a hypothetical scenario that I’ve been thinking about and would absolutely dread: Halo 6 removing WarZone and putting in some kind of Overwatch clone mode in its place. The removal of Sprint would give them a perfect reason to do so. I can already imagine them sitting in a meeting talking about it: “Well, we removed Sprint and all these other features, we have to have something to attract new people. What’s popular right now?”
> > >
> > >
> > > Overwatch was still more populated than Halo 5 on the Xbox One. Before this week anyway. Halo 5 needed to be free to become more populated than Overwatch.
> > >
> > > It doesn’t matter what studio made Overwatch or what caused the decline in population for Halo. Those factors have no effect on his theory, which has already been proven to not apply to Halo.
> >
> >
> > Those factors do have an affect on your ridiculous theory, though. One little game mechanic has a distinct correlation to the decline of a game’s popularity and population rather than a myriad of other interconnected factors doing the most harm? Really? That’s the kind of jumping-through-hoops logic that only the most delusionally nostalgic of people reach for.
>
>
> I didn’t propose a theory. I said their was a correlation, which there is.

Doesnt the same sort of correlation apply to population of other shooters, popularity of other games, etc?

I mean you can find a correlation for anything. Halo 2 had dual wielding, Halo 3 had dual wielding, Halo Reach had no dual wielding. In every game where they kept or introduced dual wielding, population went up. When they removed it, population declined. Ergo, I think we need to bring back dual wielding.

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> > > > > > > > > sprint needs to stay.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah why? When someone makes a statement like this, I have yet to see an explanation as to why.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s just modern gaming.
> > > > > > The majority of the gaming market wants sprint.
> > > > > > More players = more money = more support.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t hear the majority complaining for the lack of sprint in Overwatch, with the exception of one character. Also talking about majority, CS:GO is the most popular FPS on the market and it doesn’t have sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Technically it does. You pull out your knife which makes you move faster.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s not sprint, your movement speed is just increased when holding that weapon. That’s like saying you’re sprinting when holding the sword in halo 5. Sprinting is a whole different mechanic.
> >
> >
> > It kinda is really. To sprint in halo 5, you lose the ability to shoot in exchange for faster movement. That’s the same with CS:GO.
>
>
> No there are some differences. With sprint you’re limited to moving faster in one direction and maps aren’t designed around players needing to hold out knives to make certain jumps, unlike in halo 5 where you must sprint to get to certain places. Compromises aren’t needed to fit that into the game like how Spartan charge is a compromise to get sprint into halo.

Yes there are some differences, but that doesn’t mean that CS:GO doesn’t have sprint.

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> http://www.gamespot.com/articles/halo-5-had-more-active-players-than-halo-3-even-be/1100-6441616/
>
> Just gonna leave this here. Please shut up about sprint and all the other nonsense you people think are “killing Halo”.

You’re looking for the population thread. This isn’t it.

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> > > Id rather keep sprint.
> >
> >
> > I certainly have to agree with Noosa on this one. Without sprint, everything would take FOREVER. I am not a patient person.
>
>
> Well, maps are already made bigger because of sprint, which cancels out the whole “getting from A to B faster” thing. So if anything, you’re traversing the maps slower than in previous games.
>
> But what if I told you that no sprint wouldn’t actually result in you traversing areas slower? Probably sounds crazy right?

Lets clarify. Its not that you arent travelling slower, its that the game in general is slower.

Pretty sure this is where anti-sprinters lose people. You are traversing the maps faster. The game itself is longer because there is more space to traverse. More open space means more time between combat.

EDIT