The sprint discussion thread

[harithavaraj]

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> > > > Most people compare it to Halo 3. Clearly they thought they were moving slow.
> > > >
> > > > And what about those who find it fun because finally they can sprint? We’ve seen the topics. “I finally feel like a Spartan super soldier”.
> > >
> > >
> > > They’re the minority. They played for 9 years when sprint wasn’t in the games and enjoyed it and they’ll enjoy it should sprint be removed and the game made to be more fast paced like they hope it to be.
> >
> >
> > The Halo 3 crowd or the Spartan super soldier crowd.
> >
> > Look, Big Brother, Adam Sutler, whatever youd like to be called. Im not in the habit of telling people how they think. If someone says something is fun, i wont assume they dont know why it is fun. What I can say is that yes, relative to the map, Halo 5 is not faster than Halo 3. However, in regards to the Spartan, Halo 5 is miles faster. And thats the immersion coming back again.
>
>
> The masses don’t know what they want, they have to be shown what they want. This is common knowledge. People said Halo 3 needed a cover system in order to keep up with the times. Those people didn’t know the purpose of a cover system or why it worked in certain games. Halo 3 released and surprise, no one seemed to care that it didn’t have a cover system.

So you know what people want more than 343 or Microsoft? You could crack this whole gaming thing right open. Make a game that markets to everyone.

[Zr0Fear_v2]

> 2533274848599184;2480:
> As of now, firefights that go on too long are due to one of three things. Poor aim/lack of skill, one v one with no actual combat initiated, just potshots between doors. Or 3, no use of teamwork, and damn, you couldnt kill that guy just about to go around a corner. Within the game, firefights are not too long. Halo still maintains its 30 seconds of fun, over and over again.
>
> Time’s running out and you have the flag, pass it to a teammate, learn to flag juggle, or better yet. Look, if the map is designed for sprint, then the flag routes are designed for flag speed. There are always fastest flag routes, for every map. How about, times running out, you need to get the final kill, you sprint into position and snipe someone to win the game. Oh wait you have no sprint so you desperately bunny hop around and oh, time ran out. These anecdotal type instances dont really argue anything. Specific instances sprint can help, hence it being a tactical decision. Its like running into a crowded base with your BR out or your SMG out. One makes sense, but so often people dont do it. Regardless of common sense or not, there are many decisions to be made in this game, and when to sprint is one of them.
>
> Modern CoD dictated Halos popularity. Popularity being tied with how much fun people have playing a game. How much fun people have playing a game tied with how good they are at it. I could link you to all the studies but i think you know how google works.
>
> Halo 3 wasnt immersive at all. Cutscenes had badass Master Chief, then we went back to bunny hopping through maps. However, immersion has a place in gameplay, and most people would prefer if gameplay stayed consistent throughout an entire game. In Halo 5, sprint is both offensive and defensive minded.

Long average kill times are a problem regardless and the things I mentioned only make them worse no matter whether it’s a lot or a little (though this is admittedly worsened by thruster).

I was talking about just getting to the flag. I’m not going to get in a debate about every single possible variable that could happen in a game. Until you can tell me what a larger map adds to game, the negatives I’m mentioning all matter regardless of how big or little they are.

Modern CoD does not dictate Halos gameplay. The devs do. As i said, the poor ranking system and many mechanics are to blame for being unwelcoming to newcomers. CoD basically became popular over night, so I’m not sure why you’re suggesting that can’t happen with Halo.

None of that go against anything I said on immersion. Halo 3 was still the peak of the franchises popularity without being very immersive and immersion will always be second to gameplay in MP. The gameplay should remain consistant across all modes, but immersion should always come second to gameplay in MP, so they only other option would be seperate rules for Campaign and MP. 343 has a history of not caring what half its fanbase thinks though, so putting gameplay before immersion shouldn’t matter too much to them.

[Naqser]

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> > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S.
> > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > >
> > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> >
> >
> > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
>
>
> Map elongation would be a real argument if maps werent constantly getting bigger and bigger.
>
> “Oh look, it takes longer to get from Base to Base on Truth than on Midship”
>
> yeah, it also takes longer to get from armory to armory in Escape from ARC. Maps get bigger. A bigger space isnt a bad thing for a skilled players. Longer spaces + desprint = much more room to kill sprinting soldiers who made poor tactical decision.
>
> What you have failed to address, however, is how Halo is not a game for casual gamers. Whereas it used to be. Besides the REQ system, can you tell me any reason that someone would have a hard time adjusting to Halo 5 vs Halo 3 or Halo Reach?

Map elognation: Are you implying maps are getting bigger without reasons and thus features are implemented to “battle” that effect? Map developers themselves have heavily implied that due to sprint, maps have been increased in size.

Warzone maps, huge ones, are huge because of the bigger number of players and the occurrence of AI on the map. If you’d ignore the AI you’d find that the maps have a lot of dead spaces that would rarely be used. However, they’re built like that in order to allow AI to be on the map along with a larger amount of players while not overcrowding the map and making things too hectic.

No, big maps aren’t a problem for a skilled player, however you’ll find that different maps and their sizes have different emphasises on different gameplay styles, larger open maps have less CQC moments while small tight maps are hectic with lots of CQC combat.

Gamers will play, what gamers find fun, no matter what label you slap on it.
I really do not see Halo 5’s supposed “competitiveness” as one of the driving reasons why “casuals” are not sticking to Halo 5 in masses, but rather the complexity in its many features coupled with somewhat different rule setting (Arena vs Warzone), and lack of actual depth. There are other more difficult games out there, both to learn and to play, which are played by casuals, and also praised for their “difficulty”. DotA 2, LoL, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and so forth.

[Zr0Fear_v2]

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> > > > > Most people compare it to Halo 3. Clearly they thought they were moving slow.
> > > > >
> > > > > And what about those who find it fun because finally they can sprint? We’ve seen the topics. “I finally feel like a Spartan super soldier”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They’re the minority. They played for 9 years when sprint wasn’t in the games and enjoyed it and they’ll enjoy it should sprint be removed and the game made to be more fast paced like they hope it to be.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Halo 3 crowd or the Spartan super soldier crowd.
> > >
> > > Look, Big Brother, Adam Sutler, whatever youd like to be called. Im not in the habit of telling people how they think. If someone says something is fun, i wont assume they dont know why it is fun. What I can say is that yes, relative to the map, Halo 5 is not faster than Halo 3. However, in regards to the Spartan, Halo 5 is miles faster. And thats the immersion coming back again.
> >
> >
> > The masses don’t know what they want, they have to be shown what they want. This is common knowledge. People said Halo 3 needed a cover system in order to keep up with the times. Those people didn’t know the purpose of a cover system or why it worked in certain games. Halo 3 released and surprise, no one seemed to care that it didn’t have a cover system.
>
>
> So you know what people want more than 343 or Microsoft? You could crack this whole gaming thing right open. Make a game that markets to everyone.

Are you suggesting the masses know what they want?

[harithavaraj]

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> > > > > > Most people compare it to Halo 3. Clearly they thought they were moving slow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And what about those who find it fun because finally they can sprint? We’ve seen the topics. “I finally feel like a Spartan super soldier”.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They’re the minority. They played for 9 years when sprint wasn’t in the games and enjoyed it and they’ll enjoy it should sprint be removed and the game made to be more fast paced like they hope it to be.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Halo 3 crowd or the Spartan super soldier crowd.
> > > >
> > > > Look, Big Brother, Adam Sutler, whatever youd like to be called. Im not in the habit of telling people how they think. If someone says something is fun, i wont assume they dont know why it is fun. What I can say is that yes, relative to the map, Halo 5 is not faster than Halo 3. However, in regards to the Spartan, Halo 5 is miles faster. And thats the immersion coming back again.
> > >
> > >
> > > The masses don’t know what they want, they have to be shown what they want. This is common knowledge. People said Halo 3 needed a cover system in order to keep up with the times. Those people didn’t know the purpose of a cover system or why it worked in certain games. Halo 3 released and surprise, no one seemed to care that it didn’t have a cover system.
> >
> >
> > So you know what people want more than 343 or Microsoft? You could crack this whole gaming thing right open. Make a game that markets to everyone.
>
>
> Are you suggesting the masses know what they want?

Im suggesting it isnt yours or my place to tell them is all. Let 343 release a game. If they like it, they buy it . If they dont, they dont.

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> > As of now, firefights that go on too long are due to one of three things. Poor aim/lack of skill, one v one with no actual combat initiated, just potshots between doors. Or 3, no use of teamwork, and damn, you couldnt kill that guy just about to go around a corner. Within the game, firefights are not too long. Halo still maintains its 30 seconds of fun, over and over again.
> >
> > Time’s running out and you have the flag, pass it to a teammate, learn to flag juggle, or better yet. Look, if the map is designed for sprint, then the flag routes are designed for flag speed. There are always fastest flag routes, for every map. How about, times running out, you need to get the final kill, you sprint into position and snipe someone to win the game. Oh wait you have no sprint so you desperately bunny hop around and oh, time ran out. These anecdotal type instances dont really argue anything. Specific instances sprint can help, hence it being a tactical decision. Its like running into a crowded base with your BR out or your SMG out. One makes sense, but so often people dont do it. Regardless of common sense or not, there are many decisions to be made in this game, and when to sprint is one of them.
> >
> > Modern CoD dictated Halos popularity. Popularity being tied with how much fun people have playing a game. How much fun people have playing a game tied with how good they are at it. I could link you to all the studies but i think you know how google works.
> >
> > Halo 3 wasnt immersive at all. Cutscenes had badass Master Chief, then we went back to bunny hopping through maps. However, immersion has a place in gameplay, and most people would prefer if gameplay stayed consistent throughout an entire game. In Halo 5, sprint is both offensive and defensive minded.
>
>
> Long average kill times are a problem regardless and the things I mentioned only make them worse no matter whether it’s a lot or a little (though this is admittedly worsened by thruster).
>
> I was talking about just getting to the flag. I’m not going to get in a debate about every single possible variable that could happen in a game. Until you can tell me what a larger map adds to game, the negatives I’m mentioning all matter regardless of how big or little they are.
>
> Modern CoD does not dictate Halos gameplay. The devs do. As i said, the poor ranking system and many mechanics are to blame for being unwelcoming to newcomers. CoD basically became popular over night, so I’m not sure why you’re suggesting that can’t happen with Halo.
>
> None of that go against anything I said on immersion. Halo 3 was still the peak of the franchises popularity without being very immersive and immersion will always be second to gameplay in MP. The gameplay should remain consistant across all modes, but immersion should always come second to gameplay in MP, so they only other option would be seperate rules for Campaign and MP. 343 has a history of not caring what half its fanbase thinks though, so putting gameplay before immersion shouldn’t matter too much to them.

Long average kill times is what Halo is built on compared to the rest of gaming. the variances between the ones now and the ones in Halo 3 are marginal at best. Of course, movement abilities do more to affect this than sprint does.

Dead zones exist in all maps, in all games. Unless you can tell me how elongation is only affecting Halo out of all other games, im not buying that elongation is a big concern for the casual gamer.

Im suggesting Halo cant become popular overnight because of immersion, and skill. It cant draw enough of a casual gamer base vs other games out there today, What you are trying to do is make it less and less immersive. We’ve had this argument before.

We’ve also argued Halo 3’s popularity before. Its a few pages back, in response to arcgalactable. I firmly believe, that while being a well made, fun game, Halo’s popularity was born of necessity, not choice. Its easy to be popular when you’re the only fish in the pond. sure there are tiny microorganisms floating around but they dont even come close to you.

343 has a history of having a vision for Halo and doing what they want. That lines up with the vision for half the community, and doesnt line up with the other half.

[Attack_Sanctum]

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> > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S.
> > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > >
> > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> >
> >
> > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
>
>
> Map elongation would be a real argument if maps werent constantly getting bigger and bigger.
>
> “Oh look, it takes longer to get from Base to Base on Truth than on Midship”
>
> yeah, it also takes longer to get from armory to armory in Escape from ARC. Maps get bigger. A bigger space isnt a bad thing for a skilled players. Longer spaces + desprint = much more room to kill sprinting soldiers who made poor tactical decision.
>
> TTK has stayed relatively consistent, so has base speed from Reach to 4 to 5.
>
> So what we have left in enemies being able to escape. Ignoring movement abilities, the biggest part of competitive Halo is teamwork, It takes teamwork to gain map control, teamwork to win, and teamshooting to get kills. Like I said, the elongation works both ways. More space to kill, more space to be killed. Sprint, get there faster. Run, have your gun ready.
>
> What you have failed to address, however, is how Halo is not a game for casual gamers. Whereas it used to be. Besides the REQ system, can you tell me any reason that someone would have a hard time adjusting to Halo 5 vs Halo 3 or Halo Reach?

Im sorry but your point about map elongation makes little to no sense. The issue with map elongation is two fold. 1- You cannot properly traverse the map while shooting. The maps are mostly scaled for sprint meaning most jumps are scaled for sprint jumping. Meaning you cannot jump around the map and shoot at the same time. This sucks if you are someone who enjoyed how Halo used to marvelously combine movement and combat into the fascinating bullet ballet we used to know and love. 2- The maps are stretched but more importantly, so is everything in it. Every area is stretched out. This is an issue because when you stop to engage in combat it mostly takes place in flat, open terrain that doesn’t provide much in the way of interesting combat options because all the objects in the map are far away from each other.

Escapability is not a huge issue in h5 in regards to sprint in 4v4 or larger games. In smaller games like doubles or FFA it is a big issue but that’s more because of thruster _ sprint than sprint alone. I’am personally a big fan of thruster so escapability is a much more grey topic to me in H5 as opposed to being black or white.

i know H5 is not a friendly game for casual gamers. The irony is that most of the reasons for this match up with the issues competitive players have with the game.

[harithavaraj]

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> > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > >
> > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > >
> > >
> > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> >
> >
> > Map elongation would be a real argument if maps werent constantly getting bigger and bigger.
> >
> > “Oh look, it takes longer to get from Base to Base on Truth than on Midship”
> >
> > yeah, it also takes longer to get from armory to armory in Escape from ARC. Maps get bigger. A bigger space isnt a bad thing for a skilled players. Longer spaces + desprint = much more room to kill sprinting soldiers who made poor tactical decision.
> >
> > What you have failed to address, however, is how Halo is not a game for casual gamers. Whereas it used to be. Besides the REQ system, can you tell me any reason that someone would have a hard time adjusting to Halo 5 vs Halo 3 or Halo Reach?
>
>
> Map elognation: Are you implying maps are getting bigger without reasons and thus features are implemented to “battle” that effect? Map developers themselves have heavily implied that due to sprint, maps have been increased in size.
>
> Warzone maps, huge ones, are huge because of the bigger number of players and the occurrence of AI on the map. If you’d ignore the AI you’d find that the maps have a lot of dead spaces that would rarely be used. However, they’re built like that in order to allow AI to be on the map along with a larger amount of players while not overcrowding the map and making things too hectic.
>
> No, big maps aren’t a problem for a skilled player, however you’ll find that different maps and their sizes have different emphasises on different gameplay styles, larger open maps have less CQC moments while small tight maps are hectic with lots of CQC combat.
>
> Gamers will play, what gamers find fun, no matter what label you slap on it.
> I really do not see Halo 5’s supposed “competitiveness” as one of the driving reasons why “casuals” are not sticking to Halo 5 in masses, but rather the complexity in its many features coupled with somewhat different rule setting (Arena vs Warzone), and lack of actual depth. There are other more difficult games out there, both to learn and to play, which are played by casuals, and also praised for their “difficulty”. DotA 2, LoL, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and so forth.

Maps got bigger when technology got bigger. Deadzones exist everywhere, in every game.

Likewise, there are different ways of using sprint in small or big maps. Sprint has offensive and defensive potential. It most definitely has CQC potential.

Its not Halo 5’s competitiveness, its Halo in general.The shield concept, the plasma vs bullet concept, the grenades, its a lot for a casual gamer to become invested in. Dark Souls and Bloorborne, while excellent games, dont have the popularity or sales of Halo. Both DotA 2 and LoL are seeing an increased surge in popularity because they are 1. free to play 2. were already highly popular 3. easier than DotA. There is a constant stream of reward and response in both DotA 2 and LoL, with minions, turrets, bases, champions, etc.

This has been studied, and tested. Gamers are more likely to go into “flow” (read “immersion” but scientifically studied) when in FPS view. Hence why shooters tend to get studied so much for psychological effects. Both games you mentioned are you controlling a champion or god. Ergo you are less inclined to feel immersion and focus more on winning or killing.

[Attack_Sanctum]

> 2533274848599184;2468:
> > 2533274819567236;2463:
> > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S.
> > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > >
> > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> >
> >
> > All negative effects it has matter. Sprint accomplishes nothing that can’t be done in another way with fewer negative side effects on the game. The worse option is chosen simply “because”. That’s why it’s important for people to justify what it adds to the game, because if they can’t come up with anything then that means the negative effects can be elimated without worry of losing anything positive. Halo is less welcoming now than ever because of a poor ranking system and overstuffed gameplay. Halo always took skill and Halo 5 is more forgiving in some of those cases (autos being the obvious example). People would rather not have their -Yoink- kicked for 10 games for each playlist in order to get a rank or have to learn a thousand different player mechanics in order to play competently. Halo is no longer simple to learn and hard to master and that makes it much less accessible than previous entries and other shooters on the market.
>
>
> It became not simple to learn when games like CoD hit the market. That has as much to do with this as sprint does.
>
> I will say it, because its important. You cant offer immersion with a base speed increase. No matter how much you hate/dislike immersion, a combat instinct has merit in a combat game. Sprint is exactly that. Its called fight or flight for a reason.
>
> Anecdotal evidence be -Yoink!-, but id wager a large portion of Halo players have had friends pick up the game and ask them “Why cant I sprint?”.

People would only have that reaction in a game like halo 3 because it’s so -Yoink!- slow. Nobody wants that.

I guarantee you nobody picks up the new doom and says “why can’t I sprint”. You’re moving so fast as it is. That’s the thing about trying to mimic a super soldier and create that immersion. You should not be trying to create the feel of “basic human instinct” because you’re not supposed to be a basic human.

[harithavaraj]

> 2535460097937638;2486:
> > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > >
> > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > >
> > >
> > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> >
> >
> > Map elongation would be a real argument if maps werent constantly getting bigger and bigger.
> >
> > “Oh look, it takes longer to get from Base to Base on Truth than on Midship”
> >
> > yeah, it also takes longer to get from armory to armory in Escape from ARC. Maps get bigger. A bigger space isnt a bad thing for a skilled players. Longer spaces + desprint = much more room to kill sprinting soldiers who made poor tactical decision.
> >
> > TTK has stayed relatively consistent, so has base speed from Reach to 4 to 5.
> >
> > So what we have left in enemies being able to escape. Ignoring movement abilities, the biggest part of competitive Halo is teamwork, It takes teamwork to gain map control, teamwork to win, and teamshooting to get kills. Like I said, the elongation works both ways. More space to kill, more space to be killed. Sprint, get there faster. Run, have your gun ready.
> >
> > What you have failed to address, however, is how Halo is not a game for casual gamers. Whereas it used to be. Besides the REQ system, can you tell me any reason that someone would have a hard time adjusting to Halo 5 vs Halo 3 or Halo Reach?
>
>
> Im sorry but your point about map elongation makes little to no sense. The issue with map elongation is two fold. 1- You cannot properly traverse the map while shooting. The maps are mostly scaled for sprint meaning most jumps are scaled for sprint jumping. Meaning you cannot jump around the map and shoot at the same time. This sucks if you are someone who enjoyed how Halo used to marvelously combine movement and combat into the fascinating bullet ballet we used to know and love. 2- The maps are stretched but more importantly, so is everything in it. Every area is stretched out. This is an issue because when you stop to engage in combat it mostly takes place in flat, open terrain that doesn’t provide much in the way of interesting combat options because all the objects in the map are far away from each other.
>
> Escapability is not a huge issue in h5 in regards to sprint in 4v4 or larger games. In smaller games like doubles or FFA it is a big issue but that’s more because of thruster _ sprint than sprint alone. I’am personally a big fan of thruster so escapability is a much more grey topic to me in H5 as opposed to being black or white.
>
> i know H5 is not a friendly game for casual gamers. The irony is that most of the reasons for this match up with the issues competitive players have with the game.

You’re contradicting Zr0. There is more cover when there is elongated maps, ergo longer kill times, and thats bad. You forget that these maps are all scaled to sprint and to thrust. Most standing jumps can be made while just standing, if done correctly, but thrust is there to compensate. Also, you can run and shoot at the same time. You just cant sprint and shoot at the same time. Sprint being the choice between moving faster or being gun ready,

Well another contradiction. I was under the impression escapability was a large issue. Apparently it isnt.

The irony to your irony, if I may, is that most competitive players would create more issues within the game for a casual gamer. Most gamers dont understand the whole shield headshot bodyshot system Halo has right now. How does making it so that precisions have better TTKs than automatics up close help? How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help? How does removing a familiar aspect from other games help? Most games have standardized “X” as the reload button, sprint on the thumbstick, thinks to create some similarity in the gaming generation where everyone has more games than they need.

I’ll clarify. I tend to think most Halo players are not casual players. The casual audience is filled with games like Battlefront, CoD, Battlefield. Simple, military recreations of something we can either relate to (Battlefront, because lets face it, the chance of you getting that Hero pickup are slim to none) or something we see in real life.

[Zr0Fear_v2]

> 2533274848599184;2485:
> Long average kill times is what Halo is built on compared to the rest of gaming. the variances between the ones now and the ones in Halo 3 are marginal at best. Of course, movement abilities do more to affect this than sprint does.
>
> Dead zones exist in all maps, in all games. Unless you can tell me how elongation is only affecting Halo out of all other games, im not buying that elongation is a big concern for the casual gamer.
>
> Im suggesting Halo cant become popular overnight because of immersion, and skill. It cant draw enough of a casual gamer base vs other games out there today, What you are trying to do is make it less and less immersive. We’ve had this argument before.
>
> We’ve also argued Halo 3’s popularity before. Its a few pages back, in response to arcgalactable. I firmly believe, that while being a well made, fun game, Halo’s popularity was born of necessity, not choice. Its easy to be popular when you’re the only fish in the pond. sure there are tiny microorganisms floating around but they dont even come close to you.
>
> 343 has a history of having a vision for Halo and doing what they want. That lines up with the vision for half the community, and doesnt line up with the other half.

Halo has longer average kill times than other games, but they should still be quick. Making them longer than they are is never ok. If longer kill times are better, tell me why.

Why is elongation good for Halo? What does it add? I’ve told you some of the drawkbacks, so if we’re still arguing this, there must be some positives you want to mention.

A good ranking system will prevent skill based gameplay from being a problem for newcomers. Certainly wasn’t a problem with Halo 2. Gameplay has always come before immersion and it didn’t hold back previous games. You’re acting like these are problems that have always been around. They’re not. If you’re gonna suggest that people played Halo because they “no choice” and not because it was fun, just let me know now so I can take my leave because I’m not arguing that nonsense.

[Attack_Sanctum]

> 2533274848599184;2489:
> > 2535460097937638;2486:
> > > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> > >
> > >
> > > Map elongation would be a real argument if maps werent constantly getting bigger and bigger.
> > >
> > > “Oh look, it takes longer to get from Base to Base on Truth than on Midship”
> > >
> > > yeah, it also takes longer to get from armory to armory in Escape from ARC. Maps get bigger. A bigger space isnt a bad thing for a skilled players. Longer spaces + desprint = much more room to kill sprinting soldiers who made poor tactical decision.
> > >
> > > TTK has stayed relatively consistent, so has base speed from Reach to 4 to 5.
> > >
> > > So what we have left in enemies being able to escape. Ignoring movement abilities, the biggest part of competitive Halo is teamwork, It takes teamwork to gain map control, teamwork to win, and teamshooting to get kills. Like I said, the elongation works both ways. More space to kill, more space to be killed. Sprint, get there faster. Run, have your gun ready.
> > >
> > > What you have failed to address, however, is how Halo is not a game for casual gamers. Whereas it used to be. Besides the REQ system, can you tell me any reason that someone would have a hard time adjusting to Halo 5 vs Halo 3 or Halo Reach?
> >
> >
> > Im sorry but your point about map elongation makes little to no sense. The issue with map elongation is two fold. 1- You cannot properly traverse the map while shooting. The maps are mostly scaled for sprint meaning most jumps are scaled for sprint jumping. Meaning you cannot jump around the map and shoot at the same time. This sucks if you are someone who enjoyed how Halo used to marvelously combine movement and combat into the fascinating bullet ballet we used to know and love. 2- The maps are stretched but more importantly, so is everything in it. Every area is stretched out. This is an issue because when you stop to engage in combat it mostly takes place in flat, open terrain that doesn’t provide much in the way of interesting combat options because all the objects in the map are far away from each other.
> >
> > Escapability is not a huge issue in h5 in regards to sprint in 4v4 or larger games. In smaller games like doubles or FFA it is a big issue but that’s more because of thruster _ sprint than sprint alone. I’am personally a big fan of thruster so escapability is a much more grey topic to me in H5 as opposed to being black or white.
> >
> > i know H5 is not a friendly game for casual gamers. The irony is that most of the reasons for this match up with the issues competitive players have with the game.
>
>
> Most standing jumps can be made while just standing, if done correctly, but thrust is there to compensate. Also, you can run and shoot at the same time. You just cant sprint and shoot at the same time. Sprint being the choice between moving faster or being gun ready,
>
>
> The irony to your irony, if I may, is that most competitive players would create more issues within the game for a casual gamer. Most gamers dont understand the whole shield headshot bodyshot system Halo has right now. How does making it so that precisions have better TTKs than automatics up close help? How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help? How does removing a familiar aspect from other games help? Most games have standardized “X” as the reload button, sprint on the thumbstick, thinks to create some similarity in the gaming generation where everyone has more games than they need.
>
> I’ll clarify. I tend to think most Halo players are not casual players. The casual audience is filled with games like Battlefront, CoD, Battlefield. Simple, military recreations of something we can either relate to (Battlefront, because lets face it, the chance of you getting that Hero pickup are slim to none) or something we see in real life.

First off, someone else and I having different opinions is not a contradiction. Why you would think it is is quite baffling. You do realise we are two different people right?

There are all kinds of jumps on every map that cannot be made without sprinting. Hell there are all kinds of jumps that cannot be made without sprinting, thrusting, stabalising and mantling.

The maps are scaled to sprint. That is the base speed of the game. That is the speed you must be moving in order to properly traverse the map.You have to drop to a lower speed in order to shoot. Ergo, you cannot shoot while properly traversing the map.

You’re getting way off topic in the lower section of your post. You also make tons of unfounded, baseless assumptions.

[harithavaraj]

> 2535460097937638;2488:
> > 2533274848599184;2468:
> > > 2533274819567236;2463:
> > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > >
> > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > >
> > >
> > > All negative effects it has matter. Sprint accomplishes nothing that can’t be done in another way with fewer negative side effects on the game. The worse option is chosen simply “because”. That’s why it’s important for people to justify what it adds to the game, because if they can’t come up with anything then that means the negative effects can be elimated without worry of losing anything positive. Halo is less welcoming now than ever because of a poor ranking system and overstuffed gameplay. Halo always took skill and Halo 5 is more forgiving in some of those cases (autos being the obvious example). People would rather not have their -Yoink- kicked for 10 games for each playlist in order to get a rank or have to learn a thousand different player mechanics in order to play competently. Halo is no longer simple to learn and hard to master and that makes it much less accessible than previous entries and other shooters on the market.
> >
> >
> > It became not simple to learn when games like CoD hit the market. That has as much to do with this as sprint does.
> >
> > I will say it, because its important. You cant offer immersion with a base speed increase. No matter how much you hate/dislike immersion, a combat instinct has merit in a combat game. Sprint is exactly that. Its called fight or flight for a reason.
> >
> > Anecdotal evidence be -Yoink!-, but id wager a large portion of Halo players have had friends pick up the game and ask them “Why cant I sprint?”.
>
>
> People would only have that reaction in a game like halo 3 because it’s so -Yoink!- slow. Nobody wants that.
>
> I guarantee you nobody picks up the new doom and says “why can’t I sprint”. You’re moving so fast as it is. That’s the thing about trying to mimic a super soldier and create that immersion. You should not be trying to create the feel of “basic human instinct” because you’re not supposed to be a basic human.

Yeah well judging by sales and population numbers, no one on consoles really picked up the new doom. PC players love it though.

So was Halo 3 slow or not. Reduce FOV and it wasnt slow anymore or was it actually slow?

One thing is for sure, the anti-sprinter group is focused on no sprint, but after that you guys are as fragmented as Chief’s visor after Locke gave him that punch. Y’all really need to get together and decide on some things

[l_Jinxed_I]

> 2533274848599184;2489:
> > 2535460097937638;2486:
> > > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> > >
> > >
> > > How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help?

Just a heads up, competitive players don’t want radar in Team Arena, for almost the same reason quoted here. It gives free information.

[harithavaraj]

> 2533274819567236;2490:
> > 2533274848599184;2485:
> > Long average kill times is what Halo is built on compared to the rest of gaming. the variances between the ones now and the ones in Halo 3 are marginal at best. Of course, movement abilities do more to affect this than sprint does.
> >
> > Dead zones exist in all maps, in all games. Unless you can tell me how elongation is only affecting Halo out of all other games, im not buying that elongation is a big concern for the casual gamer.
> >
> > Im suggesting Halo cant become popular overnight because of immersion, and skill. It cant draw enough of a casual gamer base vs other games out there today, What you are trying to do is make it less and less immersive. We’ve had this argument before.
> >
> > We’ve also argued Halo 3’s popularity before. Its a few pages back, in response to arcgalactable. I firmly believe, that while being a well made, fun game, Halo’s popularity was born of necessity, not choice. Its easy to be popular when you’re the only fish in the pond. sure there are tiny microorganisms floating around but they dont even come close to you.
> >
> > 343 has a history of having a vision for Halo and doing what they want. That lines up with the vision for half the community, and doesnt line up with the other half.
>
>
> Halo has longer average kill times than other games, but they should still be quick. Making them longer than they are is never ok. If longer kill times are better, tell me why.
>
> Why is elongation good for Halo? What does it add? I’ve told you some of the drawkbacks, so if we’re still arguing this, there must be some positives you want to mention.
>
> A good ranking system will prevent skill based gameplay from being a problem for newcomers. Certainly wasn’t a problem with Halo 2. Gameplay has always come before immersion and it didn’t hold back previous games. You’re acting like these are problems that have always been around. They’re not. If you’re gonna suggest that people played Halo because they “no choice” and not because it was fun, just let me know now so I can take my leave because I’m not arguing that nonsense.

Longer kill times, if by a marginal amount, reward players who have better positioning or better skill, im all for it. Like in our scenario here. Two people duking it out amongst cover and what not (But Attack on Sanctum says there isnt cover so now im not sure if TTK is actually going up or not) whoever gets the upper hand has better skill or positioning. Id reward that.

Well if sprint causes elongation, but sprint gives us more immersion, then immersion is the positive. It adds a bit to immersion without changing much to gameplay. Besides creating things that were already there. Deadzones exist in all games. Combat is always focused around certain areas. Making the distance between them longer and putting cover in the middle doesnt change that you are charging to get the Railgun before the enemy gets the railgun. Confrontation.

You should probably leave now then. The only competitive FPS game on consoles from 2001 to 2009, from a pure popularity standpoint, was Halo. That means a wide range of players were coming in to fill the ranking system. If casual players start leaving, who fills those ranks. Well middle tiers become lower tiers and the upper tiers become even more marginalized. I am not saying these are problems that have always been around. The casual gamer problem has been around since 2009, when most casual gamers left the Halo franchise. In the subsequent years, more followed. What we are left with is a large portion of players with Halo experience, and then the smaller percentage who have no clue what the -Yoink- is going on and dont understand how the game works since the only similarity between Halo and other mass market shooters is sprint and guns.

[harithavaraj]

> 2533274970658419;2493:
> > 2533274848599184;2489:
> > > 2535460097937638;2486:
> > > > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help?
>
>
> Just a heads up, competitive players don’t want radar in Team Arena, for almost the same reason quoted here. It gives free information.

So why is reduced radar not a compromise? It warns you of imminent danger, but doesnt give you too much time to pitch your tent or pre-fire

[Attack_Sanctum]

> 2533274848599184;2495:
> > 2533274970658419;2493:
> > > 2533274848599184;2489:
> > > > 2535460097937638;2486:
> > > > > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > > > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > > > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help?
> >
> >
> > Just a heads up, competitive players don’t want radar in Team Arena, for almost the same reason quoted here. It gives free information.
>
>
> So why is reduced radar not a compromise? It warns you of imminent danger, but doesnt give you too much time to pitch your tent or pre-fire

It is a compromise. but nobody wants a compromise. Casual players want a normal size radar and competitive players don’t want one at all.

[Luck_Of_Legend]

It’s still halo with sprint…

[l_Jinxed_I]

> 2535460097937638;2496:
> > 2533274848599184;2495:
> > > 2533274970658419;2493:
> > > > 2533274848599184;2489:
> > > > > 2535460097937638;2486:
> > > > > > 2533274848599184;2465:
> > > > > > > 2535460097937638;2460:
> > > > > > > > 2533274848599184;2457:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2454:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535471109694535;2451:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;2446:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;2440:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;2434:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274900911359;2429:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first Halo game to add sprint (Reach) PLUMITED the Halo community. The first Halo game to add sprint as a standard mechanic (Halo 4) Ruined the franchise. Is this a coincidence? I think not! Maybe if 343 goes back to what was obviously working, they would make a truly great Halo game. Just look at Overwatch. No sprint… killing Halo 5 in just a few months of release as compared to Halo’s 7 months.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it wasn’t sprint IMO… it was loadouts and armor abilities in general not to mention they took away the awesome matchmaking and rank structure. Those things killed Halo not the addition of one mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Why is sprint good for the game? Can you not even think of an answer?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why do you keep demanding people to give you reasons for this? Isn’t the fact that they like sprint good enough? Or do you insist on getting individual points so you can better attempt to pick them apart one by one?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Half 9th his arguments are just “OK, but what makes it good?” That’s like saying “Why are gun laws good?” It does nothing but prolong an argument that is otherwise in an unfavorable state for the attacking side.
> > > > > > > > > > If you really are curious about what are good reasons for keeping sprint, then maybe you should go from page one and catch up to here.
> > > > > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > > > > DOOM is not the fastest game in the market, it does seem fast but a lot of it is a wider FOV. I won’t lie that it’s not fast but there are faster games, like some arena shooters, that just aren’t as recent or popular.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So I guess you can’t tell me why sprint is good for the gameplay either, huh? Funny how the anti-sprinters can explain in detail how sprint effects the game negatively, but pro-sprinters all to often can’t seem to explain why it effects the game positively.
> > > > > > > > > P.S. Whether its speed or FOV doesn’t matter, my point remains that Doom doesn’t have sprint and it isn’t “too slow” and is one probably the fastest paced shooter on consoles right now. If you think otherwise, give some examples.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is affect or effect the correct usage in this situation? It always boggles me.
> > > > > > > > Look, most of the anti-sprint points argue with facts that maybe the top 4% of players actually care about. TTK, Map Elongation, Enemies running away and the need to chase, people not being punished for being out of position. Its all unnecessary to the average player. Halo 5 is fun. What Halo is not, however, is accomodating or welcoming to new players. Now more than ever. You need skill to play Halo. And the auto-aim and bullet magnetism of games like CoD have ruined that in the common gamer. People used to be better. Back when there was only Halo to play.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No. These are issues that only a small % can understand, analyze and articulate. These issues effect everyone though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does increasing the radar so that you see a casual player coming a mile away help?
> > >
> > >
> > > Just a heads up, competitive players don’t want radar in Team Arena, for almost the same reason quoted here. It gives free information.
> >
> >
> > So why is reduced radar not a compromise? It warns you of imminent danger, but doesnt give you too much time to pitch your tent or pre-fire
>
>
> It is a compromise. but nobody wants a compromise. Casual players want a normal size radar and competitive players don’t want one at all.

Exactly this. Also, a smaller radar just makes it worse in my opinion. Now the moment I see someone on the radar we both instantly crouch and hit Y. That slows the game down, and just isn’t fun slowly walking towards a door ready to spam.

[Zr0Fear_v2]

> 2533274848599184;2494:
> You should probably leave now then. The only competitive FPS game on consoles from 2001 to 2009, from a pure popularity standpoint, was Halo. That means a wide range of players were coming in to fill the ranking system. If casual players start leaving, who fills those ranks. Well middle tiers become lower tiers and the upper tiers become even more marginalized. I am not saying these are problems that have always been around. The casual gamer problem has been around since 2009, when most casual gamers left the Halo franchise. In the subsequent years, more followed. What we are left with is a large portion of players with Halo experience, and then the smaller percentage who have no clue what the -Yoink- is going on and dont understand how the game works since the only similarity between Halo and other mass market shooters is sprint and guns.

Interesting world you live where people have “no choice” but to play a game they don’t find fun. Or maybe you just live in some weird country that would force people to play Halo even if they didn’t like it. Whatever it is, it’s fascinating lace you’re in.

“People only played Halo because they had ‘no choice’”

You should lead off with that whenever you debate anything here. It would keep a lot of people from wasting their time.

[harithavaraj]

> 2533274819567236;2499:
> > 2533274848599184;2494:
> > You should probably leave now then. The only competitive FPS game on consoles from 2001 to 2009, from a pure popularity standpoint, was Halo. That means a wide range of players were coming in to fill the ranking system. If casual players start leaving, who fills those ranks. Well middle tiers become lower tiers and the upper tiers become even more marginalized. I am not saying these are problems that have always been around. The casual gamer problem has been around since 2009, when most casual gamers left the Halo franchise. In the subsequent years, more followed. What we are left with is a large portion of players with Halo experience, and then the smaller percentage who have no clue what the -Yoink- is going on and dont understand how the game works since the only similarity between Halo and other mass market shooters is sprint and guns.
>
>
> Interesting world you live where people have “no choice” but to play a game they don’t find fun. Or maybe you just live in some weird country that would force people to play Halo even if they didn’t like it. Whatever it is, it’s fascinating lace you’re in.
>
> “People only played Halo because they had ‘no choice’”
>
> You should lead off with that whenever you debate anything here. It would keep a lot of people from wasting their time.

You were the one that told me the masses dont know what they want. Tell me, if you wanted to play a popular FPS from 2004-2009 on consoles, what would you play?

Funny, I get where you were coming from. The masses thought they wanted Halo, but they really just wanted CoD. Huh, I guess people are stupid. They dont know what they want