The SPECTRE Must Return

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Hi all, I’ve been brainstorming ways for the Spectre (Halo 2) to make a return and be sufficiently different from the Warthog to warrant its inclusion.

The overall vehicle layout should remain the same, with a forward-positioned driver, two passengers on the “wings,” and a rear gunner.

The vehicle should retain its boost function but have the now standard boost meter that all Covenant vehicles have.

The main changes I have brainstormed involve the turret and the vehicle health.

The turret should be changed from being a weak, rapid fire gun reminiscent of the Warthog’s chaingun to being a powerful, slower firing cannon. My thought on this is that it should be replaced with a weapon that fires explosive plasma rounds of the same style as the concussion rifle, with a large amount of arc and a slow fire rate with the devastating ability to knock light vehicles and infantry around. Alternatively instead of being full auto, it could fire in small bursts or require a reload or heat venting every x amount of rounds, in order to prevent it from spamming a constant barrage of concussive rounds.

To further differentiate the Spectre from the Warthog, the Spectre could be given a lower base health but have the added benefit of a shield, similar to the mantis. The shield would be relatively weak but help protect the Spectre and its exposed passengers from small arms fire.

I think these changes would be sufficient enough to warrant the Spectre’s return in a new Halo game. Please post if you have thoughts and suggestions on the matter.

2

I voted no.

The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.

However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead. And with different variants that include:

  • The default Revenant
  • Needle Revenant
  • Passenger Revenant (assumes the form of the cut Revenant from Halo 4)
3

> I voted no.
>
> The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.
>
> However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead.

Essentially yes, but with the changes I outlined I think it would be a nice addition to the vehicle sandbox as a support type vehicle, being able to lay down supportive fire in the form of concussive blasts.

The Revenant, in my opinion, was simply a bland addition to bridge the gap between the Ghost and Wraith and was more of an annoyance than anything.

4

I voted “no” because even with the changes, it’s not that much different from a Warthog or Gauss Warthog. Adding unique vehicles is better than more vehicles.

5

I would prefer they try to keep to the generalized idea of UNSC vehicles being teamwork oriented while Covenant vehicles are centred around a single pilot.

There are a bunch of changes to a few vehicles I’d like to see made to fit this, for starters my preferred Sandbox:

UNSC -
Mongoose
Warthog
Scorpion*
Falcon
Mantis (exception to the rule)

Covenant -
Ghost
Spectre*
Wraith (subtle exception to the rule)
Banshee
Locust?

The ones with * are the ones I’d like to see changed to fit the teamwork vs single pilot idea present in most vehicles.

For the Scorpion, I feel they should swap the Machine Gun and the Cannon around. The driver gets control of the machine gun now, and the second player is the Cannon operator. Not only is this relatively more realistic, but it also helps balance the Scorpion and the Wraith, with the Scorpion absolutely requiring two players to compensate for it’s obvious avantages.

For the Spectre, I’d like to see the turret act kind of like a Phantom turret. Lowish RoF, no Arc, powerful Plasma Concussive rounds, Automatic. As well, the Turret should be operated by the pilot. Passengers can still ride on the vehicle but that is the limitation. As well, it would be nice if the turret could still swivel, kind of like the Scorpion, the player perspective follows the main gun, and the vehicle can turn and maneuver separately, allowing the player to quickly and easily boost left, right, or even away while maintaining perspective towards the threat. Making the Spectre extremely flexible in terms of movement and strafing options. And like the original Spectre, it’s movement in all possible directions should yield the same ‘non-boosting’ acceleration and smoothness as moving forward, even while the vehicle is rotating. Making it’s manoeuvrability possibly even superior to the Ghost’s, but with a lower top speed, and the obviously larger size of the target…

In terms of exceptions to the rule, the Mantis will remain a single pilot vehicle, and the Wraith will continue to have it’s second player Plasma Cannon.

6

> The SPECTRE Must Return

No.

The Revenant needs to return.

The Spectre was a reskinned Warthog with boost.

7

> Make the Scorpion require a gunner to use the main cannon.

You do realize that it is the way it is now because the Scorpion is used in the SP as a power trip vehicle and it’s designed to make you a Juggernaught right?

That said, I would like the main cannon to be fired by a separate gunner. Preserves the theme and it’s possible given the existence of the Mantis as the Power Trip vehicle.

8

> I voted no.
>
> The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.
>
> However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead. And with different variants that include:
>
>
>
>
> - The default Revenant
> - Needle Revenant
> - Passenger Revenant (assumes the form of the cut Revenant from Halo 4)
>

Revenant is weak as hell

9

> Revenant is weak as hell

It’s also super fun and can be buffed if needed.

10

> I voted no.
>
> The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.
>
> However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead. And with different variants that include:
>
>
>
>
> - The default Revenant
> - Needle Revenant
> - Passenger Revenant (assumes the form of the cut Revenant from Halo 4)
>

This.

I was reading a thread not too long ago that said covenant vehicles are mostly about independence, the driver also being at least one of the guns. The revenant stays true to this, the Spectre does not, nor does the prowler. This is, however, another reason I’d like to see a return of the chopper as well as the revenant.

11

> I voted no.
>
> The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.
>
> However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead. And with different variants that include:
>
>
>
>
> - The default Revenant
> - Needle Revenant
> - Passenger Revenant (assumes the form of the cut Revenant from Halo 4)
>

Still, it can’t hurt to add it

12

> > I voted no.
> >
> > The Spectre, no matter how far you break it down, is just a reskinned Warthog in the end of the day. The only real difference between the two vehicles is a boost ability, an extra seat, and better traction. Other than that they’re just the same thing but with a different coat.
> >
> > However, the Revenant is something that I’d like to see return instead. And with different variants that include:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - The default Revenant
> > - Needle Revenant
> > - Passenger Revenant (assumes the form of the cut Revenant from Halo 4)
> >
>
> Revenant is weak as hell

If you thought the Revenant was weak, it only means you had no idea how to use it.

The primary purpose of the Revenant was it’s ability to easily close the gap, and straight up massacre other light vehicles on the map. And it did that job very very well. On Hemmorhage you could use the hills to keep your Revy concealed, watch closely for enemy Warthogs, Ghosts, and other Revenants to get overextended, then rocket across the map in seconds and start slaughtering them. When the enemy didn’t have vehicles all you had to do was avoid the Wraith and single out enemies (engaging only 1 or 2 at a time) and you could handle Infantry without too much problem to pass the time. Then when the enemy vehicles respawn you rinse and repeat.

It’s the fastest vehicle in the game, and has a lot more manoeuvring abilities than a Warthog, as well as a respectable amount of armour. If you play smart with it, your only threats are long range hogs that catch you off guard, the Wraith, and if your team can’t keep tack of it, the Plasma Launcher. You can take cover so quick DMRs are pretty much useless. And if you’re not a Splatter -Yoink!- you won’t have problems with AL, or Jetpacks either.

13

Spectre > Revenant.

Here’s why:

-Projectiles. Both the Spectre and Revenant weapons are projectile based. However, while the Revenant’s projectiles are stronger, they are extremely slow, loud, and easy to spot and avoid. A warthog at medium -long range wrecks the Revenant easily. The Spectre, on the other hand, has faster moving plasma projectiles, and with a little bit of shot leading, the Spectre actually becomes a threat to a warthog in the medium-long ranges that the Revenant struggles to reach.

-Durability. The Spectre’s durability matches that of the warthog, while the Revenant’s is somewhat lower than a Warthogs, but still higher than a Ghost’s durability. The fact that Reach’s vehicle durability was downgraded from Halo 2 and 3’s is also a factor, but isn’t a fair argument since durability applies to all vehicles in the sandbox of each game.

-Redundancy. It’s easy to call the Spectre a “reskinned Warthog” since it’s a mobile platform with a turret in the back. But looking at its unique traits, like the fact that its turret is projectile while the warthog’s is hitscan, or the fact that it has extra seating, a speed boost, more maneuverability and the ability to strafe, as well as an air break to climb over small obstacles, and you realize that it is not so similar to the warthog as you might think. That being said, neither is the Revenant. But the Revenant suffers from a kind of redundancy that is comparable to that of the iPad Mini. Why have the Revenant for its speed when the Ghost is faster? Why have it for its mortar weapon when the Wraith’s is clearly stronger and more effective in almost all situations? That leaves the question: Is the Revenant really the “best of both worlds”? Or is it just a vehicle that is ok in both areas, but is outshined in those areas by its counterparts (Ghost/Wraith) as well as the competition (Warthog)?

-Breaking “tradition”. I absolutely hate the mentality of UNSC = team based, Covenant = solo based. It limits the creativity to create new and unique vehicles, and before you know it, we end up with 5+ different warthog variants for the UNSC “cuz they’re team based”. People who support this mentality also seem to be oblivious to the fact that Halo CE and 2’s Scorpion, the Hornet, and the Mantis were all solo based vehicles, while the Spectre, the Prowler, Halo 3, Reach, and 4’s Wraiths (Hell, I’ll even go as far as saying the Phantom), were all team based. So in reality, this so-called “tradition” of UNSC vs. Covenant vehicles being solo or team based never existed, and is more or less for the sake of sandbox organization between the UNSC and the Covenant, which dumbs down potential vehicle creativity.

-343i seems to favor the concept of the Spectre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXzYKQZDrpM

14

> > Revenant is weak as hell
>
> It’s also super fun and can be buffed if needed.

As the other guy said about the specter it is just a scaled down wraith reskinned.

15

> Spectre > Revenant.
>
> Here’s why:
>
>
>
>
> -Projectiles. Both the Spectre and Revenant weapons are projectile based. However, while the Revenant’s projectiles are stronger, they are extremely slow, loud, and easy to spot and avoid. A warthog at medium -long range wrecks the Revenant easily. The Spectre, on the other hand, has faster moving plasma projectiles, and with a little bit of shot leading, the Spectre actually becomes a threat to a warthog in the medium-long ranges that the Revenant struggles to reach.
>
> -Durability. The Spectre’s durability matches that of the warthog, while the Revenant’s is somewhat lower than a Warthogs, but still higher than a Ghost’s durability. The fact that Reach’s vehicle durability was downgraded from Halo 2 and 3’s is also a factor, but isn’t a fair argument since durability applies to all vehicles in the sandbox of each game.
>
> -Redundancy. It’s easy to call the Spectre a “reskinned Warthog” since it’s a mobile platform with a turret in the back. But looking at its unique traits, like the fact that its turret is projectile while the warthog’s is hitscan, or the fact that it has extra seating, a speed boost, more maneuverability and the ability to strafe, as well as an air break to climb over small obstacles, and you realize that it is not so similar to the warthog as you might think. That being said, neither is the Revenant. But the Revenant suffers from a kind of redundancy that is comparable to that of the iPad Mini. Why have the Revenant for its speed when the Ghost is faster? Why have it for its mortar weapon when the Wraith’s is clearly stronger and more effective in almost all situations? That leaves the question: Is the Revenant really the “best of both worlds”? Or is it just a vehicle that is ok in both areas, but is outshined in those areas by its counterparts (Ghost/Wraith) as well as the competition (Warthog)?
>
> -Breaking “tradition”. I absolutely hate the mentality of UNSC = team based, Covenant = solo based. It limits the creativity to create new and unique vehicles, and before you know it, we end up with 5+ different warthog variants for the UNSC “cuz they’re team based”. People who support this mentality also seem to be oblivious to the fact that Halo CE and 2’s Scorpion, the Hornet, and the Mantis were all solo based vehicles, while the Spectre, the Prowler, Halo 3, Reach, and 4’s Wraiths (Hell, I’ll even go as far as saying the Phantom), were all team based. So in reality, this so-called “tradition” of UNSC vs. Covenant vehicles being solo or team based never existed, and is more or less for the sake of sandbox organization between the UNSC and the Covenant, which dumbs down potential vehicle creativity.
>
> -343i seems to favor the concept of the Spectre.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXzYKQZDrpM
>

Actually there’s a little bit of missinformation here. I’d just like to cover:

  • The Spectre actually has significantly less armour and reveals the driver, gunner, and passengers far more openly than either the Hog of the Revenant. The Revenant’s durability on the other hand, was actually much closer to a Hog’s.

  • The Revenant was only threatened at range by a Hog if the driver didn’t take cover. That’s kind of why cover exists, so you can force closer ranged fights. However, if the driver used it’s boost (which made it the fastest land-vehicle in the game), it could easily close the gap without taking significant damage, and it’s mortars absolutely annihilated hogs up close, flipping them, disorienting them, and blowing them up in 2-3 quick shots.

  • In Halo 2, the Spectre’s only appearance, it fired the only Plasma weapon in the entire franchise that was hitscan, it did NOT fire projectiles.

  • The Revenant was faster than the Ghost in Halo Reach, it’s only appearance.

  • The Revenant is the ONLY fast moving anti-light vehicle Covie vehicle in the entire franchise. The Spectre on the other hand, is one of only 3 Covie vehicles in the franchise capable of carrying passengers, which was it’s only niche in the Covenant arsenal. And the Revenant is one of those three vehicles, maintaining the niche.

With all that said, I would prefer a Spectre however I’d like the Spectre to be modified with a much heavier turret (akin to a Phantom’s Turret), which is utilized by the Driver, and not a separate gunner.

16

> > Spectre > Revenant.
> >
> > Here’s why:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Projectiles. Both the Spectre and Revenant weapons are projectile based. However, while the Revenant’s projectiles are stronger, they are extremely slow, loud, and easy to spot and avoid. A warthog at medium -long range wrecks the Revenant easily. The Spectre, on the other hand, has faster moving plasma projectiles, and with a little bit of shot leading, the Spectre actually becomes a threat to a warthog in the medium-long ranges that the Revenant struggles to reach.
> >
> > -Durability. The Spectre’s durability matches that of the warthog, while the Revenant’s is somewhat lower than a Warthogs, but still higher than a Ghost’s durability. The fact that Reach’s vehicle durability was downgraded from Halo 2 and 3’s is also a factor, but isn’t a fair argument since durability applies to all vehicles in the sandbox of each game.
> >
> > -Redundancy. It’s easy to call the Spectre a “reskinned Warthog” since it’s a mobile platform with a turret in the back. But looking at its unique traits, like the fact that its turret is projectile while the warthog’s is hitscan, or the fact that it has extra seating, a speed boost, more maneuverability and the ability to strafe, as well as an air break to climb over small obstacles, and you realize that it is not so similar to the warthog as you might think. That being said, neither is the Revenant. But the Revenant suffers from a kind of redundancy that is comparable to that of the iPad Mini. Why have the Revenant for its speed when the Ghost is faster? Why have it for its mortar weapon when the Wraith’s is clearly stronger and more effective in almost all situations? That leaves the question: Is the Revenant really the “best of both worlds”? Or is it just a vehicle that is ok in both areas, but is outshined in those areas by its counterparts (Ghost/Wraith) as well as the competition (Warthog)?
> >
> > -Breaking “tradition”. I absolutely hate the mentality of UNSC = team based, Covenant = solo based. It limits the creativity to create new and unique vehicles, and before you know it, we end up with 5+ different warthog variants for the UNSC “cuz they’re team based”. People who support this mentality also seem to be oblivious to the fact that Halo CE and 2’s Scorpion, the Hornet, and the Mantis were all solo based vehicles, while the Spectre, the Prowler, Halo 3, Reach, and 4’s Wraiths (Hell, I’ll even go as far as saying the Phantom), were all team based. So in reality, this so-called “tradition” of UNSC vs. Covenant vehicles being solo or team based never existed, and is more or less for the sake of sandbox organization between the UNSC and the Covenant, which dumbs down potential vehicle creativity.
> >
> > -343i seems to favor the concept of the Spectre.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXzYKQZDrpM
> >
>
> Actually there’s a little bit of missinformation here. I’d just like to cover:
>
> - The Spectre actually has significantly less armour and reveals the driver, gunner, and passengers far more openly than either the Hog of the Revenant. The Revenant’s durability on the other hand, was actually much closer to a Hog’s.

From what I understand, the Spectre’s durability was pretty much the same as the Hog’s. Perhaps the openness of the Spectre that caused its occupants to die quickly compared to the Hog is what made it seem weaker?

> - The Revenant was only threatened at range by a Hog if the driver didn’t take cover. That’s kind of why cover exists, so you can force closer ranged fights. However, if the driver used it’s boost (which made it the fastest land-vehicle in the game), it could easily close the gap without taking significant damage, and it’s mortars absolutely annihilated hogs up close, flipping them, disorienting them, and blowing them up in 2-3 quick shots.

Most BTB maps are built for long ranges. Boosting with a Revenant straight at a Hog with its sights fixed on you means your Revenant is going to take significant damage whether it destroy’s the Hog or not. And only incompetent Hog drivers are going to charge a Revenant that is in cover.

Something else that the Spectre has over the Revenant is the ability of its weapon to cover 360*, which allows it to fight back when being chased. However, a Revenant cannot defend itself when being chased since the weapon is linked to the steering, which means it will be taking fire from behind.

> - In Halo 2, the Spectre’s only appearance, it fired the only Plasma weapon in the entire franchise that was hitscan, it did NOT fire projectiles.

I’m saying it could fire projectiles. You seem to be assuming that, should the Spectre return, it would be an exact Halo 2 clone with updated graphics. Assuming you’ve seen the cut Halo 4 Revenant, a turret like that would not only be an accurate projectile weapon, but also a much more skillful turret than the Warthog due to the need for shot leading.

> - The Revenant was faster than the Ghost in Halo Reach, it’s only appearance.

The Ghost’s boost had a longer duration. I’ve tested this myself in Reach, the Revenant has a faster acceleration when boosting, but because its boost has a shorter duration than the Ghost, the Ghost is able to outrun the Revenant. That’s also assuming the Revenant doesn’t fire while boosting, which would stop the Revenant from boosting altogether.

> - The Revenant is the ONLY fast moving anti-light vehicle Covie vehicle in the entire franchise. The Spectre on the other hand, is one of only 3 Covie vehicles in the franchise capable of carrying passengers, which was it’s only niche in the Covenant arsenal. And the Revenant is one of those three vehicles, maintaining the niche.

So that would make the Revenant more of a single occupant, projectile based Covie Gauss Hog, rather than a Covenant “Warthog”. In that case, both the Revenant and Specter could potentially work in the same sandbox. The Spectre is still more efficient at confronting multiple infantry, and it also has an edge over the Revenant as far as aircraft are concerned. Banshee’s could fly in circles over a Revenant easy.

> With all that said, I would prefer a Spectre however I’d like the Spectre to be modified with a much heavier turret (akin to a Phantom’s Turret), which is utilized by the Driver, and not a separate gunner.

So basically, a Revenant with a concussion rifle as a weapon.

And this is where I disagree. As I have said above, I hate this mentality of UNSC = team based, Covenant = solo based. Halo has had UNSC vehicles that were solo based, and Covie vehicles that were team based in the past, there’s no getting around that. I just don’t get why people feel the need to “group” vehicles based on their faction.

17

> From what I understand, the Spectre’s durability was pretty much the same as the Hog’s. Perhaps the openness of the Spectre that caused its occupants to die quickly compared to the Hog is what made it seem weaker?

No, they blew up faster too.

> Most BTB maps are built for long ranges. Boosting with a Revenant straight at a Hog with its sights fixed on you means your Revenant is going to take significant damage whether it destroy’s the Hog or not. And only incompetent Hog drivers are going to charge a Revenant that is in cover.
>
> Something else that the Spectre has over the Revenant is the ability of its weapon to cover 360*, which allows it to fight back when being chased. However, a Revenant cannot defend itself when being chased since the weapon is linked to the steering, which means it will be taking fire from behind.

“Long Range” is subjective to the perspective of the player at the time. “Long Range” on foot is significantly longer than “Long Range” in a vehicle. In almost any instance even on an open-ish map like Hemmorhage (pretty much the only relevant Revenant map anyway), there is morethan enough cover from hills to conceal your movement so the enemy unknowingly gets too close, escape Warthog prey, and ranges are short enough to close the gap quickly especially if the Hog Gunner is distracted, which is y’know, when you would pounce.

> I’m saying it could fire projectiles. You seem to be assuming that, should the Spectre return, it would be an exact Halo 2 clone with updated graphics. Assuming you’ve seen the cut Halo 4 Revenant, a turret like that would not only be an accurate projectile weapon, but also a much more skillful turret than the Warthog due to the need for shot leading.

Yes, and the Revenant’s Shots can be changed to something different too.

> The Ghost’s boost had a longer duration. I’ve tested this myself in Reach, the Revenant has a faster acceleration when boosting, but because its boost has a shorter duration than the Ghost, the Ghost is able to outrun the Revenant. That’s also assuming the Revenant doesn’t fire while boosting, which would stop the Revenant from boosting altogether.

The only time the Ghost’s boost duration vs the Revenants is ever relevant, is on a map that spans from Hemmorhage’s Beach all the way to the end of Paradiso. And maps like that don’t exist in traditional play or MM. Using Hemmorhage as the only real Revenant based example, you could boost clear from one end of the map to the other before you ran dry. There’s no situation you should ever be beaten from point A to point B by a Ghost.

> So that would make the Revenant more of a single occupant, projectile based Covie Gauss Hog, rather than a Covenant “Warthog”. In that case, both the Revenant and Specter could potentially work in the same sandbox. The Spectre is still more efficient at confronting multiple infantry, and it also has an edge over the Revenant as far as aircraft are concerned. Banshee’s could fly in circles over a Revenant easy.

Aught to have noted ‘ground vehicle’. And the sandbox would get crowded with both. The Banshee isn’t necessarily an anti-light vehicle. It’s pretty easily taken out by the Warthog so long as the Gunner’s not an idiot, because it’s so flimsy. In RTS terms, I’d call the Banshee a soft killer of light vehicles, while the Revenant is a hard-killer.

> So basically, a Revenant with a concussion rifle as a weapon.
>
> And this is where I disagree. As I have said above, I hate this mentality of UNSC = team based, Covenant = solo based. Halo has had UNSC vehicles that were solo based, and Covie vehicles that were team based in the past, there’s no getting around that. I just don’t get why people feel the need to “group” vehicles based on their faction.

Not completely, it should be able to swivel so the front always faces the direction you’re moving, while the turret always faces the direction of the camera, kind of like the Scorpion. This would allow you a full range of manoeuvring in all direction while maintaining sight on the enemy. Even allowing you to boost away from a fight, while simultaneously taking pot shots.

In terms of it being a Concussion Rifle, kind of, just more potent and hopefully faster moving.

And the Mentality was a Bungie thing, they only broke it in a couple of instances (Notably the Spectre, Scorpion, Hornet, and Mantis. The Prowler being a Brute Sandbox vehicle as opposed to traditional Covenant allows it to bend the rules). But in every other vehicle in the franchise this has been the primary rule. And it kind of fits the game’s aesthetic feel. UNSC things in general are bulkier/tougher, with heavier armour. Covie things in general feel more like glass, easily breakable.

The way it all fits together it makes perfect sense, Covie Vehicles are a little bit weaker, but they don’t require multiple players to operate.

18

Spectre should come back. So what if it is a reskinned Warthog with boost and another seat? The Wraith is basically a Scorpion with boost and a mortar. The Hornet is basically a Banshee with no boost or fuel rod, but extra seats. The Ghost is a Mongoose with no boost, a single seat, and actual firepower. All the vehicles are similar to each other. The only one that is unique is the Mantis because there is no counter-part Covenant version for it. The Revenant is basically the Covenant Gauss Hog (except it is a hell of a lot weaker). Spectre has no reason it should not come back.

19

> Spectre should come back. So what if it is a reskinned Warthog with boost and another seat? The Wraith is basically a Scorpion with boost and a mortar. The Hornet is basically a Banshee with no boost or fuel rod, but extra seats. The Ghost is a Mongoose with no boost, a single seat, and actual firepower. All the vehicles are similar to each other. The only one that is unique is the Mantis because there is no counter-part Covenant version for it. The Revenant is basically the Covenant Gauss Hog (except it is a hell of a lot weaker). Spectre has no reason it should not come back.

While they’ve filled similar niches, aside from the Spectre and Prowler, no vehicles have ever been “clones” and it’s better kept that way. Clone weapons already plague the everliving hell out of the sandbox (Looking at you, Storm Rifle, Suppressor, Beam Rifle, Scattershot, Incineration Cannon, and Plasma Cannon).

But despite filling a similar role or niche, vehicles have always had a much stronger tendency to fit a completely different playstyle and feel different from one another, save the Spectre and Prowler as mentioned before.

Yes the Ghost and the Mongoose are both ‘scout’ vehicles. But the way they work as scout vehicles is completely different, and their function in game varies. The Mongoose requires a second player, allowing it to carry weapons like the Rocket Launcher into battle, or carry objectives quickly. But the Ghost has it’s own weapon, and can is overall faster.

The Warthog and Revenant are main light vehicles, but the Warthog is specifically anti-infantry, while the Revenant specializes more in anti-light vehicle combat, and has much better manoeuvring. The Warthog also has a variety of variations, which is pretty unique among vehicles in general.

The Scorpion and Wraith are both Tanks. But in layman’s terms the Scorpion is a Battle Tank, and the Wraith is mobile Artillery. They fit completely different roles in that regard. While the Scorpion is mainly used as a juggernaut, getting line of sight on targets and easily messing them up, the Wraith can shell out mortars across maps and create death-hazards for the other team to deal with, which are pretty dangerous (you see this more from AI than players in game, but that’s because players in game don’t exactly use the Wraith to it’s maximum potential, if more did, Hemmorhage would be awesome in Reach, as you’d constantly have to worry about flying pot shots in the air which are a serious threat on Legendary when you’re busy also trying to deal with enemy infantry, and can’t afford to look up.

The Falcon and the Banshee fill totally different aircraft roles too. The Banshee is like a bomber jet, making fast bombing runs and getting in and out, and the tricks DEFINITELY make it speedier and harder to track than a Falcon. The Falcon on the other hand is like an Attack Helicopter. Hovering over the battlefield and messing Infantry up with an unending hail of bullets.

The major variety in playstyle between vehicles is what makes them compelling to choose to use over one another. The game needs less clones in it, not more.

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> “Long Range” is subjective to the perspective of the player at the time. “Long Range” on foot is significantly longer than “Long Range” in a vehicle. In almost any instance even on an open-ish map like Hemmorhage (pretty much the only relevant Revenant map anyway), there is morethan enough cover from hills to conceal your movement so the enemy unknowingly gets too close, escape Warthog prey, and ranges are short enough to close the gap quickly especially if the Hog Gunner is distracted, which is y’know, when you would pounce.

That’s the thing though, the Revenant needs cover to function well. On a map like Sandtrap, the Revenant would suffer greatly (unless you try squeezing it through one of those narrow hallways for ambushes). Not every map is going to work well for the Revenant, and if this increase in player count that everyone seems to be talking about ends up happening, maps are going to have to be built with even greater distances. What will be the solution then? Add more and more hills? Might as well add a Covie vehicle like the Spectre that can actually compete with the Hog at all ranges.

> Yes, and the Revenant’s Shots can be changed to something different too.

A concussion rifle shot isn’t much faster than the mortar it had in Reach. And even if you changed it to be a plasma cannon type of weapon, there’s still the issue of the Revenant’s weapon being linked to the driver’s steering. A disadvantage that almost all other Covie vehicles have.

> The only time the Ghost’s boost duration vs the Revenants is ever relevant, is on a map that spans from Hemmorhage’s Beach all the way to the end of Paradiso. And maps like that don’t exist in traditional play or MM. Using Hemmorhage as the only real Revenant based example, you could boost clear from one end of the map to the other before you ran dry. There’s no situation you should ever be beaten from point A to point B by a Ghost.

And as stated before, if we get an “XL big team battle” next game, then it will become relevant. And you do realize that neither vehicle can shoot during this boost period, right? Who’s to say the Ghost cant just get from Red to Blue base, turn around, and head back to Red base leaving the Revenant in its plasma trail?

> Aught to have noted ‘ground vehicle’. And the sandbox would get crowded with both. The Banshee isn’t necessarily an anti-light vehicle. It’s pretty easily taken out by the Warthog so long as the Gunner’s not an idiot, because it’s so flimsy. In RTS terms, I’d call the Banshee a soft killer of light vehicles, while the Revenant is a hard-killer.

It really wouldn’t crowd it at all. The three different kinds of Warthogs (four if counting the transport version) could be considered crowding more than two Covie vehicles with entirely different purposes. And if the Warthog is the counter to the Banshee, what is the Covenant’s answer to say, a Hornet or Falcon? Slower moving mortar weapons are ineffective, and the Ghost would get chewed up if it even attempted to harass the aircraft. The only viable anti-air weapon the Covies have is the Plasma Launcher, which has disappeared since Reach.

Banshee? A soft killer? Reach’s Banshee would like a word with you. It can lock on to pretty much anything with an engine. And even without lock on, Banshee > Revenant because mortars aren’t very effective against aircraft.

> Not completely, it should be able to swivel so the front always faces the direction you’re moving, while the turret always faces the direction of the camera, kind of like the Scorpion. This would allow you a full range of manoeuvring in all direction while maintaining sight on the enemy. Even allowing you to boost away from a fight, while simultaneously taking pot shots.
>
> In terms of it being a Concussion Rifle, kind of, just more potent and hopefully faster moving.

Its a unique idea, but the Scorpion is the only swivel vehicle for one reason: its slow as hell. A Revenant is faster and thus is more likely to ram into a wall if the driver is focusing behind him for too long. And hitting a wall with any Covie vehicle usually either means boarding, or death.

More potent how? More flipping capabilities? 1-2 shots to kill instead of 2-3? A faster ROF? It just seems like you modified the Revenant mortar’s projectile traits to me. It’s still going to struggle long range, and with aircraft.

> And the Mentality was a Bungie thing, they only broke it in a couple of instances (Notably the Spectre, Scorpion, Hornet, and Mantis. The Prowler being a Brute Sandbox vehicle as opposed to traditional Covenant allows it to bend the rules). But in every other vehicle in the franchise this has been the primary rule. And it kind of fits the game’s aesthetic feel. UNSC things in general are bulkier/tougher, with heavier armour. Covie things in general feel more like glass, easily breakable.
>
> The way it all fits together it makes perfect sense, Covie Vehicles are a little bit weaker, but they don’t require multiple players to operate.

OK, so the Prowler is allowed to “bend the rules” because its brute-made. That leaves us with CE-2’s Scorpion, the Hornet, Mantis, Spectre, and the Wraith from Halo 3 on. Looking at all these vehicles that break this “tradition”, it’s clear that neither Bungie, nor 343i (because of the Mantis, and I’ll even throw in the cut 2 seater Revenant) give a crap about it. However, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the highly-opinionated Halo community came up with this nonsense.

And I call it nonsense because by definition, Reach is the only Halo game that hasn’t really broken this rule vehicle-wise (even though it technically has, because of the 2 seater Wraith). By the logic of this “mentality”, the UNSC vs. Covie tradition never existed.