The small Arbiter personalty changes in Halo 5.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

This is something I didn’t notice until I replayed the classics a little bit ago and the most obvious differences is his stance on the Covenant and his temperament.

In Halo’s past the Arbiter didn’t seem to actually hate the Covenant, he seemed more like he well was fooled and wanted to right 4,000 years of wrong. he does something that we never see in Halo which is talk to the enemies and try to convert them. Most notabltely, The drones in Crows Nest and Tartarus. Instead of just fraggin the big guy the choose to speak to him. Why would he really care for Miranda or Guilty Spark. The child of one of his most annoying foes and a statue of his entire species failures.

He choose to speak to him and try and convert him and with the help of Guilty Spark he also did. Tartarus freaked out called him a heretic you all know the story from there. You could say that Thel was just tired of constantly fighting useless battles but, one he’s a Sangheili (lol) and two he didn’t actually do much fighting after the Covenant war. AS many have pointed out here on these forums multiple times, he acted mostly as a Peacekeeper. A powerful voice in diplomatic situations. Even During Halo 5 he was actually in the middle of a meeting before being ambushed and betrayed by his cousin.

The other change as I listed before is how quickly he flies off the handle bar. In the past games the Arbiter was clearly a voice of reason. He soothed Rtas and Lord Hood and sort of forced the Allegiance between Humanity and The Separatists.

While in Halo 5 he seems to be alot more brash. The best example is how he disregards Halsey, Palmer and Osiris and just says “WE ATTACK!” with no real info about Sunion other then, the Covenant own it now. The other is how after landing on Sunion, he literally rushes off into battle without much of a plan. Atleast a plan not conveyed to Osiris who would without a doubt played a pivotal role in the battle taking down the AA guns but still could of used the knowledge of their own allies position. While the Arbiter certainly wasn’t always peaceful in combat in Halo 3, the moment thought was required he’d think. He always seemed to operate with everything in mind, and not just himself.He was open to suggestion as shown by how he allowed Miranda so much power even over his own people’s choices and his very own actions by Johnson, but perhaps that was from him knowing he was in a foreign area with questionable allies but even then that shows a layer of intelligence that he just doesn’t show in Halo 5.

This sadly plays into the belief that 343i has made elites far too brutal and ironically weak. Despite it being noted that any elite is far stronger then the average human.

Before Thel put his life on the line to try and save as many as he could, but now, he just seems no different then any otehr Sangheili Warlord and I think 343i should catch this before they accidentally ruin a beloved character. Before making this thread I thought it was him showing face around his people but then I realized he was a force of change and wouldn’t need to do this.

But that’s just me, what are your thoughts?

2

> But that’s just me, what are your thoughts?

Halo 5’s characters were all written badly. All of them.

ALL
OF
THEM

Get a better writing team for future games and it should alleviate the issue.

3

Generally what emperor said.

Though, as to the ‘hating the covenant’ bit. I think its sort of due to the progression of time. At the start of the Schism it was a time of much confusion and the truth was not readily available. Thus he was able to try and share this knowledge in hopes that the people he’d fought for and with would listen to reason

The covenant of 4-5 years later however, have heard this by now and rejected it. These are people who in many cases are out to specifically kill him. What’s he supposed to do? Tell them what they’ve already heard? What they already hate him for saying?

4

The Arbiter actually developed a severe case of depression when Master Chief went MIA, hence the personality changes. He’s just really depressed, man.

naw im just joking

5

Another excellent example of how 343 doesn’t understand Halo’s characters

6

> 2533274964189700;3:
> Generally what emperor said.
>
> Though, as to the ‘hating the covenant’ bit. I think its sort of due to the progression of time. At the start of the Schism it was a time of much confusion and the truth was not readily available. Thus he was able to try and share this knowledge in hopes that the people he’d fought for and with would listen to reason
>
> The covenant of 4-5 years later however, have heard this by now and rejected it. These are people who in many cases are out to specifically kill him. What’s he supposed to do? Tell them what they’ve already heard? What they already hate him for saying?

This is a fair point to bring up why he was aggravated along with the fact that he would also be dealing with the fact his own cousin just betrayed him. But then again I’m not sure his cousin’s betrayal outweighs his entire life being a life.

But you do make a fair point for his stance against the Covenant Warlords. They aren’t people who are unaware of what happaned they chosen to ignore it.

7

I think he’s showing a bit more of his Thel’ Vadamee side. Who he was before the Great Schism. The main theme I got from Thel in Halo 5 was that he was tired. He was tired of war, he was tired of the Covenant and he was tired of sitting back while his keep and brothers died (as any Sangheili would dislike). I hope reuniting him with John and forcing him to play a pivotal role in this whole Created fiasco will remind him of who he is NEEDED to be, rather than who he was. I could see his degradation as both a writing flaw, OR he’s just damn tired and slipping, as anyone with THAT much responsibility would.
(Im not defending any writing choices here by the way, just sharing my thoughts on his character in Halo 5.)

8

> 2533274871854547;7:
> I think he’s showing a bit more of his Thel’ Vadamee side. Who he was before the Great Schism. The main theme I got from Thel in Halo 5 was that he was tired. He was tired of war, he was tired of the Covenant and he was tired of sitting back while his keep and brothers died (as any Sangheili would dislike). I hope reuniting him with John and forcing him to play a pivotal role in this whole Created fiasco will remind him of who he is NEEDED to be, rather than who he was. I could see his degradation as both a writing flaw, OR he’s just damn tired and slipping, as anyone with THAT much responsibility would.
> (Im not defending any writing choices here by the way, just sharing my thoughts on his character in Halo 5.)

This is another point to be made as well but one that I just realized is moot when you think about the escalation comics. Thel still seemed to be the same. Calm and fierce but never a tyrant.

I personally think his character shift is at the very least worth a piece in lore if it was intentional.

9

> 2535426003987045;8:
> I personally think his character shift is at the very least worth a piece in lore if it was intentional.

Honestly I think a line or 2 in halo 5 could have covered it. But halo 5 has a weird aversion to having characters explain their motives.

10

> 2535426003987045;1:
> This is something I didn’t notice until I replayed the classics a little bit ago and the most obvious differences is his stance on the Covenant and his temperament.
> In Halo’s past the Arbiter didn’t seem to actually hate the Covenant, he seemed more like he well was fooled and wanted to right 4,000 years of wrong. he does something that we never see in Halo which is talk to the enemies and try to convert them. Most notabltely, The drones in Crows Nest and Tartarus. Instead of just fraggin the big guy the choose to speak to him. Why would he really care for Miranda or Guilty Spark. The child of one of his most annoying foes and a statue of his entire species failures.
> He choose to speak to him and try and convert him and with the help of Guilty Spark he also did. Tartarus freaked out called him a heretic you all know the story from there. You could say that Thel was just tired of constantly fighting useless battles but, one he’s a Sangheili (lol) and two he didn’t actually do much fighting after the Covenant war. AS many have pointed out here on these forums multiple times, he acted mostly as a Peacekeeper. A powerful voice in diplomatic situations. Even During Halo 5 he was actually in the middle of a meeting before being ambushed and betrayed by his cousin.
> The other change as I listed before is how quickly he flies off the handle bar. In the past games the Arbiter was clearly a voice of reason. He soothed Rtas and Lord Hood and sort of forced the Allegiance between Humanity and The Separatists.
> While in Halo 5 he seems to be alot more brash. The best example is how he disregards Halsey, Palmer and Osiris and just says “WE ATTACK!” with no real info about Sunion other then, the Covenant own it now. The other is how after landing on Sunion, he literally rushes off into battle without much of a plan. Atleast a plan not conveyed to Osiris who would without a doubt played a pivotal role in the battle taking down the AA guns but still could of used the knowledge of their own allies position. While the Arbiter certainly wasn’t always peaceful in combat in Halo 3, the moment thought was required he’d think. He always seemed to operate with everything in mind, and not just himself.He was open to suggestion as shown by how he allowed Miranda so much power even over his own people’s choices and his very own actions by Johnson, but perhaps that was from him knowing he was in a foreign area with questionable allies but even then that shows a layer of intelligence that he just doesn’t show in Halo 5.
> This sadly plays into the belief that 343i has made elites far too brutal and ironically weak. Despite it being noted that any elite is far stronger then the average human.
> Before Thel put his life on the line to try and save as many as he could, but now, he just seems no different then any otehr Sangheili Warlord and I think 343i should catch this before they accidentally ruin a beloved character. Before making this thread I thought it was him showing face around his people but then I realized he was a force of change and wouldn’t need to do this.
> But that’s just me, what are your thoughts?

Thel was very similar in Halo 5, to those who deserve his mercy. However, after months of fighting, he’s fed up and tired of those who willingly commit to ignorance and permeate his planet. After all, he saw how trying to convince the Covenant worked out; none of them listened.

In Halo 5, a lot of the storytelling is (unfortunately), only done in the environment and extra stuff. He allows females to serve, and, we can also see that he, unlike other Sangheili, does not force Grunts to be canon fodder in battle; instead, you can see they serve the purpose of peaceful stuff like message-running and equipment transportation around the camp, and no Grunts join the Sangheili warriors at Sunaion or in battle in general.

In an intel log, an undercover Remnant Sangheili mentions how he had the opportunity to kill the Arbiter, catching him by surprise. However, as he approached, he talked about how the Arbiter turned around and stared him directly in the eyes, knowing very well what this Sangheili was trying to do, and despite this, the Arbiter does not do anything. He silently gives the warrior a chance to stop and think about what he’s doing. This warrior is quickly convinced that the Swords of Sanghelios is a better option.

And, his mannerisms in the cutscene with Locke might be something related. When first meeting Locke, immediately after discussing how Locke was originally volunteered to assassinate the Arbiter, Thel turns his back to Locke, as though offering Locke the opportunity to strike - testing his loyalty. He does this twice in the cutscene, and it’s something you might not pick up on often. (It’s a similar thing they do with the Master Chief throughout Halo 4 and the start of Halo 5; whenever he is uncomfortable or not wanting to think about problems he can’t deal with, such as losing Cortana, he shuffles his assault rifle in his hands, checking it. He does this again with his helmet at the start of Halo 5. I’m very convinced this is intentional.)

Don’t be mistaken; while the Arbiter is wise, and perhaps even sick of combat, you forget he’s come from a world and a culture that revolves around combat. He’s perfectly capable and willing to strike down those who he firmly believes will cause harm to Sanghelios and Sangheili-kind. ESPECIALLY when there are Sangheili(Jul 'Mdama) who are willingly lying to their brothers just like the prophets did to Thel.

11

This is no longer the Covenant of Truth, Mercy, & Regret. Thel ran his sword through Truth. We’re talking about Jul M’dama’s Covenant. And Thel has been on Sanghelios for 5 years in a bloody and desperate civil war against them. It’s changed his tune a bit.

12

> 2533274974033696;10:
> > 2535426003987045;1:
> > This is something I didn’t notice until I replayed the classics a little bit ago and the most obvious differences is his stance on the Covenant and his temperament.
> > In Halo’s past the Arbiter didn’t seem to actually hate the Covenant, he seemed more like he well was fooled and wanted to right 4,000 years of wrong. he does something that we never see in Halo which is talk to the enemies and try to convert them. Most notabltely, The drones in Crows Nest and Tartarus. Instead of just fraggin the big guy the choose to speak to him. Why would he really care for Miranda or Guilty Spark. The child of one of his most annoying foes and a statue of his entire species failures.
> > He choose to speak to him and try and convert him and with the help of Guilty Spark he also did. Tartarus freaked out called him a heretic you all know the story from there. You could say that Thel was just tired of constantly fighting useless battles but, one he’s a Sangheili (lol) and two he didn’t actually do much fighting after the Covenant war. AS many have pointed out here on these forums multiple times, he acted mostly as a Peacekeeper. A powerful voice in diplomatic situations. Even During Halo 5 he was actually in the middle of a meeting before being ambushed and betrayed by his cousin.
> > The other change as I listed before is how quickly he flies off the handle bar. In the past games the Arbiter was clearly a voice of reason. He soothed Rtas and Lord Hood and sort of forced the Allegiance between Humanity and The Separatists.
> > While in Halo 5 he seems to be alot more brash. The best example is how he disregards Halsey, Palmer and Osiris and just says “WE ATTACK!” with no real info about Sunion other then, the Covenant own it now. The other is how after landing on Sunion, he literally rushes off into battle without much of a plan. Atleast a plan not conveyed to Osiris who would without a doubt played a pivotal role in the battle taking down the AA guns but still could of used the knowledge of their own allies position. While the Arbiter certainly wasn’t always peaceful in combat in Halo 3, the moment thought was required he’d think. He always seemed to operate with everything in mind, and not just himself.He was open to suggestion as shown by how he allowed Miranda so much power even over his own people’s choices and his very own actions by Johnson, but perhaps that was from him knowing he was in a foreign area with questionable allies but even then that shows a layer of intelligence that he just doesn’t show in Halo 5.
> > This sadly plays into the belief that 343i has made elites far too brutal and ironically weak. Despite it being noted that any elite is far stronger then the average human.
> > Before Thel put his life on the line to try and save as many as he could, but now, he just seems no different then any otehr Sangheili Warlord and I think 343i should catch this before they accidentally ruin a beloved character. Before making this thread I thought it was him showing face around his people but then I realized he was a force of change and wouldn’t need to do this.
> > But that’s just me, what are your thoughts?
>
>
> Thel was very similar in Halo 5, to those who deserve his mercy. However, after months of fighting, he’s fed up and tired of those who willingly commit to ignorance and permeate his planet. After all, he saw how trying to convince the Covenant worked out; none of them listened.
>
> In Halo 5, a lot of the storytelling is (unfortunately), only done in the environment and extra stuff. He allows females to serve, and, we can also see that he, unlike other Sangheili, does not force Grunts to be canon fodder in battle; instead, you can see they serve the purpose of peaceful stuff like message-running and equipment transportation around the camp, and no Grunts join the Sangheili warriors at Sunaion or in battle in general.
>
> In an intel log, an undercover Remnant Sangheili mentions how he had the opportunity to kill the Arbiter, catching him by surprise. However, as he approached, he talked about how the Arbiter turned around and stared him directly in the eyes, knowing very well what this Sangheili was trying to do, and despite this, the Arbiter does not do anything. He silently gives the warrior a chance to stop and think about what he’s doing. This warrior is quickly convinced that the Swords of Sanghelios is a better option.
>
> And, his mannerisms in the cutscene with Locke might be something related. When first meeting Locke, immediately after discussing how Locke was originally volunteered to assassinate the Arbiter, Thel turns his back to Locke, as though offering Locke the opportunity to strike - testing his loyalty. He does this twice in the cutscene, and it’s something you might not pick up on often. (It’s a similar thing they do with the Master Chief throughout Halo 4 and the start of Halo 5; whenever he is uncomfortable or not wanting to think about problems he can’t deal with, such as losing Cortana, he shuffles his assault rifle in his hands, checking it. He does this again with his helmet at the start of Halo 5. I’m very convinced this is intentional.)
>
> Don’t be mistaken; while the Arbiter is wise, and perhaps even sick of combat, you forget he’s come from a world and a culture that revolves around combat. He’s perfectly capable and willing to strike down those who he firmly believes will cause harm to Sanghelios and Sangheili-kind. ESPECIALLY when there are Sangheili(Jul 'Mdama) who are willingly lying to their brothers just like the prophets did to Thel.

Thank you for dispelling these, myths and proving them wrong.

13

> 2533274809220485;12:
> > 2533274974033696;10:
> > > 2535426003987045;1:
> > > This is something I didn’t notice until I replayed the classics a little bit ago and the most obvious differences is his stance on the Covenant and his temperament.
> > > In Halo’s past the Arbiter didn’t seem to actually hate the Covenant, he seemed more like he well was fooled and wanted to right 4,000 years of wrong. he does something that we never see in Halo which is talk to the enemies and try to convert them. Most notabltely, The drones in Crows Nest and Tartarus. Instead of just fraggin the big guy the choose to speak to him. Why would he really care for Miranda or Guilty Spark. The child of one of his most annoying foes and a statue of his entire species failures.
> > > He choose to speak to him and try and convert him and with the help of Guilty Spark he also did. Tartarus freaked out called him a heretic you all know the story from there. You could say that Thel was just tired of constantly fighting useless battles but, one he’s a Sangheili (lol) and two he didn’t actually do much fighting after the Covenant war. AS many have pointed out here on these forums multiple times, he acted mostly as a Peacekeeper. A powerful voice in diplomatic situations. Even During Halo 5 he was actually in the middle of a meeting before being ambushed and betrayed by his cousin.
> > > The other change as I listed before is how quickly he flies off the handle bar. In the past games the Arbiter was clearly a voice of reason. He soothed Rtas and Lord Hood and sort of forced the Allegiance between Humanity and The Separatists.
> > > While in Halo 5 he seems to be alot more brash. The best example is how he disregards Halsey, Palmer and Osiris and just says “WE ATTACK!” with no real info about Sunion other then, the Covenant own it now. The other is how after landing on Sunion, he literally rushes off into battle without much of a plan. Atleast a plan not conveyed to Osiris who would without a doubt played a pivotal role in the battle taking down the AA guns but still could of used the knowledge of their own allies position. While the Arbiter certainly wasn’t always peaceful in combat in Halo 3, the moment thought was required he’d think. He always seemed to operate with everything in mind, and not just himself.He was open to suggestion as shown by how he allowed Miranda so much power even over his own people’s choices and his very own actions by Johnson, but perhaps that was from him knowing he was in a foreign area with questionable allies but even then that shows a layer of intelligence that he just doesn’t show in Halo 5.
> > > This sadly plays into the belief that 343i has made elites far too brutal and ironically weak. Despite it being noted that any elite is far stronger then the average human.
> > > Before Thel put his life on the line to try and save as many as he could, but now, he just seems no different then any otehr Sangheili Warlord and I think 343i should catch this before they accidentally ruin a beloved character. Before making this thread I thought it was him showing face around his people but then I realized he was a force of change and wouldn’t need to do this.
> > > But that’s just me, what are your thoughts?
> >
> >
> > Thel was very similar in Halo 5, to those who deserve his mercy. However, after months of fighting, he’s fed up and tired of those who willingly commit to ignorance and permeate his planet. After all, he saw how trying to convince the Covenant worked out; none of them listened.
> >
> > In Halo 5, a lot of the storytelling is (unfortunately), only done in the environment and extra stuff. He allows females to serve, and, we can also see that he, unlike other Sangheili, does not force Grunts to be canon fodder in battle; instead, you can see they serve the purpose of peaceful stuff like message-running and equipment transportation around the camp, and no Grunts join the Sangheili warriors at Sunaion or in battle in general.
> >
> > In an intel log, an undercover Remnant Sangheili mentions how he had the opportunity to kill the Arbiter, catching him by surprise. However, as he approached, he talked about how the Arbiter turned around and stared him directly in the eyes, knowing very well what this Sangheili was trying to do, and despite this, the Arbiter does not do anything. He silently gives the warrior a chance to stop and think about what he’s doing. This warrior is quickly convinced that the Swords of Sanghelios is a better option.
> >
> > And, his mannerisms in the cutscene with Locke might be something related. When first meeting Locke, immediately after discussing how Locke was originally volunteered to assassinate the Arbiter, Thel turns his back to Locke, as though offering Locke the opportunity to strike - testing his loyalty. He does this twice in the cutscene, and it’s something you might not pick up on often. (It’s a similar thing they do with the Master Chief throughout Halo 4 and the start of Halo 5; whenever he is uncomfortable or not wanting to think about problems he can’t deal with, such as losing Cortana, he shuffles his assault rifle in his hands, checking it. He does this again with his helmet at the start of Halo 5. I’m very convinced this is intentional.)
> >
> > Don’t be mistaken; while the Arbiter is wise, and perhaps even sick of combat, you forget he’s come from a world and a culture that revolves around combat. He’s perfectly capable and willing to strike down those who he firmly believes will cause harm to Sanghelios and Sangheili-kind. ESPECIALLY when there are Sangheili(Jul 'Mdama) who are willingly lying to their brothers just like the prophets did to Thel.
>
>
> Thank you for dispelling these, myths and proving them wrong.

No need to thank me, I personally enjoy this sort of discussion, and I try to provide evidence and analysis of character before I jump to conclusions - whether I defend the character/writing, or am making accusations.

14

It’s rare you see a good discussion on here. Thel completey reformed his army into something great again he has allot of weight on his soldiers.