Honestly guys, I don’t even know why we are having this argument any more. We’ve already seen multiple videos to prove that the bloom on the DMR is a problem:
> PROOF RIGHT HERE
>
> example 1:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92AzqwqCaNw
>
> the other guys shield was taken down before he took any hits at all. then bloom screwed him over even though his aim was perfect and the other guy got the kill.
>
>
> example 2:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc
>
> he gets the first 4 shots perfect then the other player out lucks him.
> > > Sorry. The fact is people want the game to be more fast paced. The bloom just cuts off the line of good gameplay vs bad. It should have nothing to do with bloom but with who can aim better. Every Halo was that. Reach is just too damn slow and people don’t want it that way.
> >
> > I have no idea who you’re directing your posts at, use the Quote button.
> >
> > And what video were you talking about before? I haven’t seen one in this thread that actually shows bloom as a big problem yet.
>
> I ment to quote but replied. Here is the video where the bloom had a big factor on the best strafer in Halo IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVYWT364VM. Very very good proof. The guy cant aim for his life yet he gets the kill.
…and along with those videos, we should keep in mind that this thread only exists in the first place because somebody happened to see a problem with less skilled players killing more skilled players in the community. We have multiple people here who have all agreed that the bloom on the DMR is so bad that less skilled players are managing to kill more skilled players easily. Is that not enough proof for you that DMR bloom is bad?
If a citizen of a country commits a crime, we don’t just ignore it because only one person committed the crime. We still make sure that justice is served for that person. Similarly, if all of these people in Halo: Reach are getting killed because of bad luck with their DMR shots, we can’t just ignore the problem, even if only a small percentage of the Halo community are the victims of that problem (and it isn’t just a small percentage of the community- just looking at this thread alone, it seems like it’s actually a pretty big percentage). And along with all of us who want the DMR bloom gone, there are many more players out there who don’t post on these forums who also hate the bloom on the DMR.
Obviously the bloom on the DMR - and on other weapons - has got to be fixed. If you still don’t see the bloom on weapons like the DMR being a problem after reading this, well, I don’t know what else will actually be able to convince you that it is.
> Honestly guys, I don’t even know why we are having this argument any more. We’ve already seen multiple videos to prove that the bloom on the DMR is a problem:
>
>
>
> > PROOF RIGHT HERE
> >
> > example 1:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92AzqwqCaNw
> >
> > the other guys shield was taken down before he took any hits at all. then bloom screwed him over even though his aim was perfect and the other guy got the kill.
> >
> >
> > example 2:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc
> >
> > he gets the first 4 shots perfect then the other player out lucks him.
>
>
>
> > > > Sorry. The fact is people want the game to be more fast paced. The bloom just cuts off the line of good gameplay vs bad. It should have nothing to do with bloom but with who can aim better. Every Halo was that. Reach is just too damn slow and people don’t want it that way.
> > >
> > > I have no idea who you’re directing your posts at, use the Quote button.
> > >
> > > And what video were you talking about before? I haven’t seen one in this thread that actually shows bloom as a big problem yet.
> >
> > I ment to quote but replied. Here is the video where the bloom had a big factor on the best strafer in Halo IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVYWT364VM. Very very good proof. The guy cant aim for his life yet he gets the kill.
>
> …and along with those videos, we should keep in mind that this thread only exists in the first place because somebody happened to see a problem with less skilled players killing more skilled players in the community. We have multiple people here who have all agreed that the bloom on the DMR is so bad that less skilled players are managing to kill more skilled players easily. Is that not enough proof for you that DMR bloom is bad?
No, quite frankly, that’s not the case. Those videos showed that as skilled as that player might be, they got out played, they didn’t lose to bloom.
And that’s the problem that us “pro-bloom” people have.
The bloom haters make up this excuse for being beaten that’s just a lie.
They blame their bad play and being beaten by a scrub on bloom, when the reality is, they aren’t as good as they think they are.
These are the same guys who HATE AA’s.
They HATE the ranking system.
They HATE.
HATERS GONNA HATE.
There’s nothing wrong with bloom.
The haters are fooling themselves and each other.
The proof of it is in this thread and every “Anti-bloom” video that actually shows us the truth.
They are whining about something that NEVER EVER HAPPENS.
> **why should the person shooting worse win against the person shooting better even once out of 100 times reaper?
[/quote]
**
>
> Because playing Halo/any videogame isn’t about that one skill. Unless it’s Silent Scope, that is all about the perfection of aim, speed and precision through memorisation. I had one perfect game of SC3. And by perfect I mean 1 shot-kills on all bosses within the first second of ability to do so. As for great games, always. We need a Kinect-Halo-Silent Scope game. ONI Black OPS assassination and VIP protection type stuff
> That Halo used to be able to be reduced to that one skill showed off how imbalanced (though fun) those games were/are. Being balanced, requiring skill and being fun is a tricky balance. Because you feel the previous Halos were fun and this one isn’t, that MUST mean Reach is imbalanced… right.
>
> The perfect precision weapon is the Sniper.
>
>
>
>
> > every halo has been a team based game. having an inherent random factor in bloom, then stating its ‘ok because if you 2v1 it doesnt matter’ is asinine, illogical, and laughable.
> >
> > if its a 2v2, and you and your ally are pacing because its mid range and thats optimal, whilst the enemy players do nothing but full-auto spam… and they end up winning, is that ok because you could have a third teammate helping you?
> >
> > then, max the players to a 4v4 battle where 1 team is spamming whilst the other is pacing (at mid range where pacing is optimal).
>
> Well, it makes sense that a team of 2 spamming 1 player out of a pair that are both pacing their shots WILL win. TEAMSHOOTING!!
>
> And if it’s 4x4, if everyone is shooting 1vs1, then it isn’t 4vs4 it’s 4 times 1vs1. If a team of 4 spams 1 player at a time while the other team attempts to pace or even spam every individual player at once, of course they will win.
>
> Oh my, how dare we prove teamwork works.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > …and along with those videos, we should keep in mind that this thread only exists in the first place because somebody happened to see a problem with less skilled players killing more skilled players in the community. We have multiple people here who have all agreed that the bloom on the DMR is so bad that less skilled players are managing to kill more skilled players easily. Is that not enough proof for you that DMR bloom is bad?
>
> And yet your videos show the skilled players playing like noobs.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92AzqwqCaNw : The player didn’t have perfect accuracy in the first place. Bloom didn’t rob them of the kill because I never saw perfect shooting. I saw someone chasing another player while both were spamming AND missing (how many shots were fired blue reticle?) That already is a bad situation that any pro knows, don’t chase (correct me on that one please).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc Snipedown only ever stood a chance to win because of bloom. He didn’t loose because of it, he almost won because of it. Not only was his shooting not perfect, he was down 2 shots before he shot back and he didn’t pace, he spammed. Hell did you here the cockyness of a player “I’m going to take you both on?”
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRVYWT364VM The blue player got the first shot up and mixed up their pacing. They then landed every shot that was red-reticle on the enemy and missed every shot that was blue-reticle. The red player landed their first 4 paced shots and then completely missed the blue’s body/head with their reticle on the 5th. You can see the tracer veer way far right of blue. SK guessed wrong in the blue’s strafe and paid the price. Bloom had nothing to do with the death.
>
>
> The true crime is that there are those that haven’t seen the videos yet talk as though they have.
> > > Why are you still saying this?
> >
> > I keep saying it, because you keep attacking it without any proof.
>
> Why only quote that part of my post? Haven’t you got anything to say about the rest of it?
The rest of your post did not contain a link to video showing us where bloom is “broken”.
> > > > > Why are you still saying this?
> > > >
> > > > I keep saying it, because you keep attacking it without any proof.
> > >
> > > Why only quote that part of my post? Haven’t you got anything to say about the rest of it?
> >
> > The rest of your post did not contain a link to video showing us where bloom is “broken”.
> >
> > There was nothing else for us to discuss.
>
> Why do you need video proof when I’m assuming that you have an Xbox and a Halo: Reach disc? Turn on your Xbox, go into custom games, plug in a guest, spam him with a DMR at medium range and you will notice that the bullets sometimes hit and sometimes don’t. The bullets go to RANDOM trajectories within the inner circle. It is dead obvious. This is the test that I posted last time that went ignored in every one of my posts. That is proof that there is generated randomness.
>
> I also didn’t say that bloom is broken, so stop saying that I did.
You keep missing the point of what I’m saying.
All you have is theory and labs tests, without a single actual occurrence.
No where in the history of Reach EVER has there been a recorded instance of the better shooter losing a 1v1 firefight because of the “randomness of bloom”.
That’s my point. Your entire argument is based on faulty logic.
i’m more of a fan of halo 2 and 3 style gameplay, so i went play team classic the other day, and we got the blackout remake. we we startted with the needle rifle, and there was a guest in the middle of the map, so i came from the man canon and shot him first pacing my shots at his face, and quess what? he killed me faster with the dmr that is still a 5 shot kill weapon with the damage increase? i was like ???
it’s true that bloom in the dmr is broken, even halo newbs like me get it.
> >
>
> What problem could you see with an amended bloom system that is designed to punish spammers in all but point blank range scenarios? How would that detriment gameplay?
I am not so foolish to believe my wants are due to skill gap implementation or anything beyond my personal preference of gameplay. And your wording of “punish” is poor. Bloom in any game doesn’t punish spammers. That isn’t its intent. Its intent is to focus a weapons range capabilities. The tighter the bloom, the more useful for longer ranges. It’s that basic as well.
I would like faster ROFs for every weapon and less bloom expansion on the precisions (all of them). Maybe more ammo for the AR if so.
That is completely different from what is skillful and not. The less handicaps we have applied to our methods of killing, the less skill they take to use. You cannot escape that basic rule. What’s easier to kill with, the DMR or Pistol? Depends on the range don’t it? But in almost any situation past close-quarters, it is the Pistol. Its mighty rate of fire is no match for the DMR’s slower yet more precise actions.
And I will repeat, it is how you defend against the DMR that matters, not how you attack with it.
> > > > > > Why are you still saying this?
> > > > >
> > > > > I keep saying it, because you keep attacking it without any proof.
> > > >
> > > > Why only quote that part of my post? Haven’t you got anything to say about the rest of it?
> > >
> > > The rest of your post did not contain a link to video showing us where bloom is “broken”.
> > >
> > > There was nothing else for us to discuss.
> >
> > Why do you need video proof when I’m assuming that you have an Xbox and a Halo: Reach disc? Turn on your Xbox, go into custom games, plug in a guest, spam him with a DMR at medium range and you will notice that the bullets sometimes hit and sometimes don’t. The bullets go to RANDOM trajectories within the inner circle. It is dead obvious. This is the test that I posted last time that went ignored in every one of my posts. That is proof that there is generated randomness.
> >
> > I also didn’t say that bloom is broken, so stop saying that I did.
>
> You keep missing the point of what I’m saying.
>
> All you have is theory and labs tests, without a single actual occurrence.
>
> No where in the history of Reach EVER has there been a recorded instance of the better shooter losing a 1v1 firefight because of the “randomness of bloom”.
>
> That’s my point. Your entire argument is based on faulty logic.
>
> It’s a fallacy.
> > >
> >
> > What problem could you see with an amended bloom system that is designed to punish spammers in all but point blank range scenarios? How would that detriment gameplay?
>
> I am not so foolish to believe my wants are due to skill gap implementation or anything beyond my personal preference of gameplay. And your wording of “punish” is poor. Bloom in any game doesn’t punish spammers. That isn’t its intent. Its intent is to focus a weapons range capabilities. The tighter the bloom, the more useful for longer ranges. It’s that basic as well.
> I would like faster ROFs for every weapon and less bloom expansion on the precisions (all of them). Maybe more ammo for the AR if so.
>
> That is completely different from what is skillful and not. The less handicaps we have applied to our methods of killing, the less skill they take to use. You cannot escape that basic rule. What’s easier to kill with, the DMR or Pistol? Depends on the range don’t it? But in almost any situation past close-quarters, it is the Pistol. Its mighty rate of fire is no match for the DMR’s slower yet more precise actions.
If nothing handicaps the weapon, the only handicap is your ability to aim. When the game get’s out of the way of your weapon accuracy, its up to the players to decide the outcome. As god intended.
In Halo2, I knew I had worse aim than some friends and better aim than others, because the weapon mechanics weren’t random. They never betrayed me. They never decided anything. My aim decided everything.
> First of all, how is what I have said based on faulty logic? Secondly, using the results of the test, we can see it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE for a player who is considered to be better than another player to lose as a result of the DMR’s randomness because there is a chance that his bullets will miss WHILE ON TARGET and his opponents won’t WHILE ON TARGET. If he is pacing, and his opponent is spamming, there is potential for the opponent to win because the potential kill time of the spammer as opposed to the pacer is enhanced. Due to randomness relevant to the player being at medium-long range away from the spammer, there is potential that the spammer can land 0/5 shots, 1/5 shots, 2/5 shots, 3/5 shots, 4/5 shots or 5/5 shots depending on the random trajectory of the bullets fired. The chance IS there.
>
> Let’s say that I am versing you, and let’s say (for argument’s sake) that I am the more skilled player, we are and stay at a medium distance away from eachother, I am pacing, so therefore my quickest potential kill time is 2.2 seconds. You are spamming, and your quickest potential kill time is 1.6 seconds. All of my shots are on target, your spamming results in 5/6 shots (THESE SHOTS WERE TRAVELLING AT RANDOM TRAJECTORIES WITHIN THE DMR’S INNER CIRCLE, AND IT WAS THROUGH LUCK THAT ONLY ONE SHOT MISSED) landing in a time period of 1.92 seconds. This means that, because you got lucky and 5/6 of your shots hit when only 4/4 of mine hit, you got the kill on a player who is more skilled than you because of RANDOMNESS! If you were less lucky, and only 3/7 shots hit in 2.2 seconds, I would have gotten the kill.
>
> The results from the test are applied in this scenario. How do you think that they test and design car safety systems? TESTS!
!!!
Saying something isn’t impossible, doesn’t mean it actually happens.
It’s not impossible for me to sprout wings and fly then either, I have just yet to do it. You know how silly that sounds?
> > > >
> > >
> > > What problem could you see with an amended bloom system that is designed to punish spammers in all but point blank range scenarios? How would that detriment gameplay?
> >
> > I am not so foolish to believe my wants are due to skill gap implementation or anything beyond my personal preference of gameplay. And your wording of “punish” is poor. Bloom in any game doesn’t punish spammers. That isn’t its intent. Its intent is to focus a weapons range capabilities. The tighter the bloom, the more useful for longer ranges. It’s that basic as well.
> > I would like faster ROFs for every weapon and less bloom expansion on the precisions (all of them). Maybe more ammo for the AR if so.
> >
> > That is completely different from what is skillful and not. The less handicaps we have applied to our methods of killing, the less skill they take to use. You cannot escape that basic rule. What’s easier to kill with, the DMR or Pistol? Depends on the range don’t it? But in almost any situation past close-quarters, it is the Pistol. Its mighty rate of fire is no match for the DMR’s slower yet more precise actions.
>
> If nothing handicaps the weapon, the only handicap is your ability to aim. When the game get’s out of the way of your weapon accuracy, its up to the players to decide the outcome. As god intended.
>
> In Halo2, I knew I had worse aim than some friends and better aim than others, because the weapon mechanics weren’t random. They never betrayed me. They never decided anything. My aim decided everything.
Of course your aiming was never denied, Halo2 was broadside barn shooting at its most fun.
But if we are to remove most, if not all the handicaps, we are left with
A) A sniper.
B) A laser.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > What problem could you see with an amended bloom system that is designed to punish spammers in all but point blank range scenarios? How would that detriment gameplay?
> > >
> > > I am not so foolish to believe my wants are due to skill gap implementation or anything beyond my personal preference of gameplay. And your wording of “punish” is poor. Bloom in any game doesn’t punish spammers. That isn’t its intent. Its intent is to focus a weapons range capabilities. The tighter the bloom, the more useful for longer ranges. It’s that basic as well.
> > > I would like faster ROFs for every weapon and less bloom expansion on the precisions (all of them). Maybe more ammo for the AR if so.
> > >
> > > That is completely different from what is skillful and not. The less handicaps we have applied to our methods of killing, the less skill they take to use. You cannot escape that basic rule. What’s easier to kill with, the DMR or Pistol? Depends on the range don’t it? But in almost any situation past close-quarters, it is the Pistol. Its mighty rate of fire is no match for the DMR’s slower yet more precise actions.
> >
> > If nothing handicaps the weapon, the only handicap is your ability to aim. When the game get’s out of the way of your weapon accuracy, its up to the players to decide the outcome. As god intended.
> >
> > In Halo2, I knew I had worse aim than some friends and better aim than others, because the weapon mechanics weren’t random. They never betrayed me. They never decided anything. My aim decided everything.
>
> Of course your aiming was never denied, Halo2 was broadside barn shooting at its most fun.
> But if we are to remove most, if not all the handicaps, we are left with
> A) A sniper.
> B) A laser.
Explain we are left with a sniper and a laser. What does that mean?
> > You can’t be serious.
>
> As serious as this highly informed post.
I have spammed friends of mine to death who have better aim at all prior Halo games. I know for a fact they are better than I, yet I have won 1v1 fights thanks to bloom randomness while they pace.
I have won spam fights in MM with horrendous aim. Fights I know I should have lost. Kills I have literally stolen thanks to bloom.
