I agree.
I’ve wanted a less bloom affected DMR and wouldn’t mind a less effected Pistol myself. That’s besides the point.
A quick thought regarding grenade blast radius (somebody mentioned earlier)…even if it’s larger than in previous Halo games, your grenades are just as powerful as your opponents, so the only factor with who kills who with grenades is skill.
But whether it be from bloom , spamming, whatever…I may get killed by a noob, but never beaten. I have 2 kids (9 and 7) that use every noob trick in the book and use them gleefully, and so long as we’re not playing Juggernaut (forced hammer only Juggernaut should be removed, BTW), they NEVER,NEVER win a game they didn’t EARN.
BTW, for those of you that say halo 3’s system was awesome but Reach’s is horrible…if it bugs you so much, just play both…I mean, it’s really no different than playing in 2 separate playlists, and even then the classic playlists will even confirm that more by changing core gameplay mechanics for Reach. I have all the Halo games to date. I don’t stay stuck just to Reach (though it’s somewhat harder to go back and play Halo 2 now 
)
Oh, also a note on game skill…rank, k/d ratios, etc…aren’t really usable as determining factors of skill, simply because they’re cumulative. For example, my stats say I’ve got a .93 K/D ratio. 25k kill/26k death…legend rank…avg 13.66 kills/game. but I’ve gotten a lot better than when I first started, playing against better and better opponents, and when I get into a playlists of noobs, I almost always win. Not the case when I started playing…usually near the middle of the pack of warrant officers, yet these early games are factored into my skill level as well… So how can you really determine my skill level?
I wasn’t thinking of this when I started, but I’m now thinking they should keep the current credit/rank system, but also add in individual playlist ranks like they had in Halo 3…or something similar.
But yeah, bloom/no bloom…whatever. Skill overcomes those obstacles, no matter how broken the system. If it wasn’t broken(not saying it is), they’d be another excuse pop up why the other guy you thought was lousy just beat you.
I’m still a firm believer that when the game gets too frustrating the power button is the ultimate win (i.e. turn off the game).
> > I see someone who is pro-bloom or thinks it works, I look up their stats. Then it all makes sense. Of course I am told that stats have nothing to do with game knowledge. It’s taboo to bring skill into an argument. But should it be? Wouldn’t a bad player be biased towards bad game mechanics? After all how in Gods name would randomness benefit a highly skilled player playing properly? It can’t!!! A good player knows when he is playing the game right, and getting ripped off by piss poor mechanics. A bad player “pretends” everything is working, seduced by the occasional un-rewarded kill, they repeat “it’s working!” Much like the stimulus is working…right… What 343 should do in Halo 4 is making it easy to learn but difficult to master. Not easy to learn and unnecessary to master. Let’s take away the crutches.
>
> What a joke… You can’t make a logical argument that anyone cares about, so you attack someone’s record.
>
> Geee… I wonder which failed political party you stole THAT one from…
Actually sounds like something YOU would do, buddy.
As for people not being as good as they are, that’s why there is theatre mode and capture cards.
> > > I see someone who is pro-bloom or thinks it works, I look up their stats. Then it all makes sense. Of course I am told that stats have nothing to do with game knowledge. It’s taboo to bring skill into an argument. But should it be? Wouldn’t a bad player be biased towards bad game mechanics? After all how in Gods name would randomness benefit a highly skilled player playing properly? It can’t!!! A good player knows when he is playing the game right, and getting ripped off by piss poor mechanics. A bad player “pretends” everything is working, seduced by the occasional un-rewarded kill, they repeat “it’s working!” Much like the stimulus is working…right… What 343 should do in Halo 4 is making it easy to learn but difficult to master. Not easy to learn and unnecessary to master. Let’s take away the crutches.
> >
> > What a joke… You can’t make a logical argument that anyone cares about, so you attack someone’s record.
> >
> > Geee… I wonder which failed political party you stole THAT one from…
>
> Actually sounds like something YOU would do, buddy.
>
> As for people not being as good as they are, that’s why there is theatre mode and capture cards.
I have not once ever attacked a service record. I’m not that dumb. Nice try though.
> > > > I see someone who is pro-bloom or thinks it works, I look up their stats. Then it all makes sense. Of course I am told that stats have nothing to do with game knowledge. It’s taboo to bring skill into an argument. But should it be? Wouldn’t a bad player be biased towards bad game mechanics? After all how in Gods name would randomness benefit a highly skilled player playing properly? It can’t!!! A good player knows when he is playing the game right, and getting ripped off by piss poor mechanics. A bad player “pretends” everything is working, seduced by the occasional un-rewarded kill, they repeat “it’s working!” Much like the stimulus is working…right… What 343 should do in Halo 4 is making it easy to learn but difficult to master. Not easy to learn and unnecessary to master. Let’s take away the crutches.
> > >
> > > What a joke… You can’t make a logical argument that anyone cares about, so you attack someone’s record.
> > >
> > > Geee… I wonder which failed political party you stole THAT one from…
> >
> > Actually sounds like something YOU would do, buddy.
> >
> > As for people not being as good as they are, that’s why there is theatre mode and capture cards.
>
> I have not once ever attacked a service record. I’m not that dumb. Nice try though.
lolstats?
> > > > I see someone who is pro-bloom or thinks it works, I look up their stats. Then it all makes sense. Of course I am told that stats have nothing to do with game knowledge. It’s taboo to bring skill into an argument. But should it be? Wouldn’t a bad player be biased towards bad game mechanics? After all how in Gods name would randomness benefit a highly skilled player playing properly? It can’t!!! A good player knows when he is playing the game right, and getting ripped off by piss poor mechanics. A bad player “pretends” everything is working, seduced by the occasional un-rewarded kill, they repeat “it’s working!” Much like the stimulus is working…right… What 343 should do in Halo 4 is making it easy to learn but difficult to master. Not easy to learn and unnecessary to master. Let’s take away the crutches.
> > >
> > > What a joke… You can’t make a logical argument that anyone cares about, so you attack someone’s record.
> > >
> > > Geee… I wonder which failed political party you stole THAT one from…
> >
> > Actually sounds like something YOU would do, buddy.
> >
> > As for people not being as good as they are, that’s why there is theatre mode and capture cards.
>
> I have not once ever attacked a service record. I’m not that dumb. Nice try though.
you would have nothing to ‘attack’ guywired.
pharmassists is dead-on.
From the Halo Bulletin:
> Second, shooting to cadence is really only a valid tactic at range; the closer you get to your opponent, the less cadence applies, and players both casual and competitive can attest to how spamming the trigger actually becomes the more reliable option here. So, ultimately while the goal was to make the weapons feel more sophisticated and add a layer of skill required to use them, the net result has been that medium range weapons such as the DMR feel unreliable at their intended range, and trigger spam has not been discouraged.
'Nuff said people. This is what the so called "anti Bloom crowd is getting at. What happened is people were so faithful to Bungie (not that I blame you) that they refused to find any fault with a game mechanic that Bungie may have come up with. But this paragraph hits the nail on the head. That’s from the mouth of 343 folks and I 100% agree with it.
Also this:
> What we’ve found is keeping some bloom actually allows the headshot weapons to feel more rewarding and reliable without overpowering them. In fact, the number we’re currently sweet on is 85%. At a 15% reduction, the DMR feels a lot better, without the Needle Rifle becoming Dolphin Gun, Destroyer of Worlds.
I will be interested to try this out, perhaps this will end up being the middle ground that will bridge the sides from both camps.
If they killed you then they weren’t worse than you. Games are designed for fun, not extreme over competitiveness and a tendency to cause good players to develop superiority complexes.
> If they killed you then they weren’t worse than you. Games are designed for fun, not extreme over competitiveness and a tendency to cause good players to develop superiority complexes.
Please read at least some of the discussion before posting something like that.
> > If they killed you then they weren’t worse than you. Games are designed for fun, not extreme over competitiveness and a tendency to cause good players to develop superiority complexes.
>
> Please read at least some of the discussion before posting something like that.
Yeah you’re right that games should be fun. But Reach is DEFINITELY no fun. It makes actually games much better if you can get better in this game and not being the pro from beginning like Reach.
from the gameplay we’ve seen, as much as i love no bloom i fear that the Dolphin Gun: Destroyer of Worlds would be obsolete at that setting, as the sheer damage of the DMR will outkill a NR in most occasions
at this current point in time the NR will be beaten by a spammed DMR given that the shots actually connect. which happens alot. it’s also very irritating that the NR’s max ROF sometimes goes into bloom even though my shots are paced as quick as i can shoot them off…
> I have not once ever attacked a service record. I’m not that dumb. Nice try though.
Not that dumb? Or not that good?
The guys in this thread have a point about the skill level and the players perception of bloom. If you can’t see that it’s broken and it doesn’t work as intended then it must be your perception that is also flawed. I’ve see you defend bloom in countless threads stating that it’s fine but how can you blatantly pretend there is no problem when thousands of people complain about it daily in various gaming forums?
Coupled with the fact that 343 have also admitted to the fact that bloom is not working as intended, I don’t think you have an argument anymore.
I think that if anyone is having such a hard time fighting then they need to sit back and find a new tactic to play the game. Maybe not just rely on the DMR constantly. Yes Bloom sucks we all know. But there are shoutguns, sniperrifles, rocket launchers, grenade launchers, grenades, stickys, concussion rifles, and a few other toys that absolutely do not depend on bloom and most of which are featured on the majority of Maps in some combination.
Yes you should not gain a dependency to the power weapons but they are there it is an option to use them as part of your tactic.
The idea of it being maybe more random or putting in some different aspects to the game simply made it to where you can play a game without seeing one person on the enemy team no matter what win with every kill and dominate everyone constantly; although it still happens from time to time.
Not bloom itself, the forgetfulness of AAs being present with bloom. Bloom isn’t the problem, its that we have popping shields and AAs… and then bloom at the level it’s at.
As I’ve said, I am very curious to see how the gameplay would be if we keep shield popping, change AL and make bloom 0 or very low.
Nothing to do with skill, purely preference.
> Not bloom itself, the forgetfulness of AAs being present with bloom. Bloom isn’t the problem, its that we have popping shields and AAs… and then bloom at the level it’s at.
> As I’ve said, I am very curious to see how the gameplay would be if we keep shield popping, change AL and make bloom 0 or very low.
>
> Nothing to do with skill, purely preference.
If the DMR and Magnum weren’t regular starting weapons in a lot of gametypes and if they weren’t also littered across every map then I would be inclined to agree with you. There is also the fact that bloom makes a weapon more accurate at range than it is up close which doesn’t make any sense.
The idea of bloom is not the problem, the fact that it doesn’t work as intended is the problem.
This is not another discussion about Bloom. If you think that Bloom is the only reason why you lose to lesser skilled players than maybe they are doing something more right than you think by being crappy. Much more skill is involved than just running forward shooting your opponent straight on. Such as your tactic especially in the vast majority of the team based playlist’s.
If you are getting outsmarted then it is your own fault and thus obviously they are not completely less skilled. But if your idea of skill is just simply precision shooting well then I would suggest simply using the sniper rifle.
> The idea of bloom is not the problem, the fact that it doesn’t work as intended is the problem.
That’s what I said, the level to which bloom is at with the shield popping and AAs isn’t as fun as intended.
Bloom succeeds at preventing the small arms precision weapons from overpowering the non power-weapons and forces a more team effort for quicker/more reliable kills.
The current system fails at allowing a good portion of players to feel rewarded for using the DMR as is as there are already other elements that deters power-weapons and promotes teamwork to begin with.
The 15% reduction is meant to increase the reliability of the weapon, allowing at least for better 1vs1 encounters while still giving the edge to 1vs2 or more encounters. (and I have said my stance since the beginning is that I prefer at least that. It has to do with preference, not skill).
Skilled gameplay is no match for fun gameplay. So says we all.
> I see someone who is pro-bloom or thinks it works, I look up their stats. Then it all makes sense. Of course I am told that stats have nothing to do with game knowledge. It’s taboo to bring skill into an argument. But should it be? Wouldn’t a bad player be biased towards bad game mechanics? After all how in Gods name would randomness benefit a highly skilled player playing properly? It can’t!!! A good player knows when he is playing the game right, and getting ripped off by piss poor mechanics. A bad player “pretends” everything is working, seduced by the occasional un-rewarded kill, they repeat “it’s working!” Much like the stimulus is working…right… What 343 should do in Halo 4 is making it easy to learn but difficult to master. Not easy to learn and unnecessary to master. Let’s take away the crutches.
This isn’t issue at all actually. The “bad” players just spam like crazy and have no idea how to play. You’ll beat them easily using the game’s mechanics the EXTREME majority of the time. Using Hologram to distract them, Active Camo to sneak up on them, and basic map knowledge to get hold of power weapons/vehicles and working with your team. Not to mention it should be really easy to get the drop on them and have a 2-3 shot lead in the gunfight.
The issue is when two skilled players exploit some of the flawed game mechanics to get an unfair upper hand, like an entire team Armor Locking and slowing the game down to a crawl or an entire team using Active Camo to camp an area or an entire team using Jetpack to get to a usually unreachable area and camp/hide there.
Or spamming in a battle to get an unfair kill when they were evenly matched. One example would be you got the drop on them and they fired as quickly as possible and they end up killing you when you were the better player by ambushing them in the first place.
The “bad” players are the kinds of people who have a K/D under one and only play on the weekends or something. Those aren’t the players who are a problem. When it’s two closely matched players (Like just two really good players in general, or even up in the MLG levels) and one either exploits a flaw or gets a “lucky” kill, this is when the con’s of bloom shine like no other.
Bloom actually works very, very well at the lower skill levels, even with the DMR.
And to the comment about stats… Well, I ONLY play solo and play Invasion and Big Team Battle and I’m rolling around with a 2.75 K/D ratio and 100 BPR. Imagine if I rolled around with a dedicated team or something? I’m very skilled at the game (not saying anywhere near MLG levels or anything, but compared to the average joe I’m much, much better) and I am a pro-bloom guy, albeit with changes that have been mentioned time and time again. It can be a system of great value and add a much needed depth to the gunfights instead of mashing Right Trigger over and over. But the main word is CAN, as it’s not perfect now and will be getting some much needed tweaking with the Title Update.