I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
> @tssasi
>
>
> How exactly did you test? You shooting a dummy guest standing still? It never works that way in MM. Why I can win while pacing at 10+ meters is because I strafe, jump, gandhi jump, crouch, the works. The enemy can’t keep their reticule on me, while I can.
Oh, I know that the conditions of matchmaking such as strafing and lag affect to this, but the test still shows that bloom is random. If it wasn’t random I would have got no five shot spam kills at any range except the closest I tested.
> Halo 2, no spread? What? Pre TU BR, spreeeeaaaadddd. SMG, spread, other weapons, let’s see…spread! And the Halo CE pistol was much too inaccurate for TSKing at any range but close if you went automatic with it. Most people go semi auto which is why they don’t see the spread that would be there.
Although I could remember wrong, I could swear Halo 2 spread was nothing compared to Halo 3. As what comes to the CE pistol, exactly, people didn’t use it at full auto, the spread didn’t appear much if shot semi-auto even at the fastest fire rate.
> AAs are fine. Sprint+Sword? Sword block! Sprint+Shotgun, well you talked about map control, why does your ENEMY have a power weapon? Evade? It’s like an uber strafe with a con, you can’t shoot. It’s hardly in loadouts anyway. I already gave my point on Armor Lock. Jetpack? Yeah, loud flying guy brightly colored isn’t noticeable, we can’t team shoot and kill him in two seconds.
Sword Block: a good example of a chain reaction. the reason for Sword Block is armor abilities and sword block is another useless feature. I have a power weapon, why should it not kill in one hit if I can get to right position? Only reason of that is increased capability of CQC weapons. Limiting the power of the weapon is not an answer to increased range of the same weapon. As for Shotgun, we are not at the map control part yet, so I’m just gonig to say that if the player is able to get the Shotgun with Sprint or Evade, why should they get increased range for the weapon?
Now that we get to map control. If the player got the Shotgun, this doesn’t immediately mean the player got map control, the map control is still irrelevant with the Shotgun as Sprint and Evade don’t break it. Now as we get to Jetpack, what does it matter that the jetpacker is loud and visible? It’s still way too easy for him to get the high ground with little to no attempt. I believe if the jetpacker is smart, they won’t fly high enough for everybody to see, just high enough to reach the spot.
> You can know if someone has AL through deductive reasoning. Not using sprint? Not using jetpack? Camo? Hologram? Furthermore if you can remember what color goes with what AA on their back, you know what AA they have. With knowledge you could use, they win against you in armor lock, YOU got outplayed.
The opponent comes behind a corner, I have no way of seeing what armor ability they have, how should I be able to know what armor ability they have? The whole situation is irrelevant as in the end it boils down to the problem that no player should be able to survive from a direct melee hit with zero damage, no player should be able to inflict damage after surviving the damage, simply by taking their finger off the button and then getting an easy melee kill. The key word: invincibility.
> In response to side question: It’ll die if you know how to play the game. If you die, your fault. The thing you may be doing wrong is pacing too slow, spamming too much close range, not using deductive reasoning and eyesight to know what AA one has, not controlling the map, not working with your team, etc. I don’t care if those questions were rhetorical, I’ll answer every one you have.
Is it my fault the opponent gets lucky and is able to spam five shots to my face at 50% hit probability at mid range while I pace my shots to get 100% sure hits? Am I really expected to predict a totally random gameplay mechanic? Is it really my fault I can’t see behind my enemy’s back nor can I see to their mind?
> DMR will not lose in skilled hands. An end all weapon isn’t the way to go in multiplayer games. Not insanely fast kill times on any weapon so each weapon has it’s niche. Weapons are balanced in this game, nothing wrong with it. You shouldn’t be bothered to use redundant
DMR can lose at skilled hands. I have lost countless of times because the opponent was spamming shooting little faster than me and getting little more lucky than me. Never should a gameplay mechanic have a risk vs reward situation that relates to luck. Risk vs reward situations should only relate to skill. If you have the right skill set, you should be able to pull it off, if you don’t you lose.
The weapons are mostly balanced in this game, I won’t deny that. There should be no end all weapon unless it’s a power weapon, but all weapons shouldn’t be completely niche weapons. There should always be a weapon that can be used at almost any range and in hands of a skilled player should be able to beat any weapon on a specific range unless held by a more skilled player.
Balanced weapon sandbox isn’t all that there is to it, Halo Reach may have mostly balanced weapons, but that doesn’t help anything if the kill times are incredibly slow. It should not take me seven seconds to kill a player from long range with DMR. The weapon sandbox can be powerful and balanced at the same time as Halo CE sandbox was.
> All the weapons in the sandbox take skill. Tell me, what takes more skill, a 3X scoped weapon that kills in five shots that in skilled hands is a death star, or…an insane spread weapon with no scope, and takes 18 bullets to kill with a 32 bullet clip?
Of course I would choose the former, but tell me which takes more skill: an incredibly slow songle shot, five shot kill weapon that relies on a random mechanic, a fast burst fire, four shot kill weapon that only relies on skill? To this I would say the latter, first of all, the burst fire means you don’t only have to have the reticle at the opponent while you pull the trigger, but also keep it there to get the two other shots to hit. The four shot kill quarantees a much faster gameplay. Lastly, the weapon relies purely on the user’s aiming skills and does not rely on random factors.
P.S. Could you please next time even type my username right?
> I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk
Relevant.
Edit: Sorry, got ninja’d.
Look, I have nothing to say much this time around. You are going in circles. The only new things you brought up were, why should someone with a power weapon like a shotgun be able to close the gap faster, and what does a brightly colored loud jetpack in the air Spartan do with anything?
Someone can close the gap faster because you can counter it. Armor lock, use evade also, sprint away. Participate in dirty boxing. Or are you one of those people who if they hate something, they’ll never use it?
And if someone is in the air, making tons of noise and brightly colored, they will be noticed and killed very quickly. Okay, they broke map control for…two seconds. Woo. If you got map control, snipe the bugger down. Good lord.
For the rest you kept saying bloom is random and the DMR sucks. My response is unwavering.
> > I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk
>
I have seen that video so many times (and sometimes even referred to it to remind people who are overzealous, that Halo 2 is not perfect). That video shows a very valid point, but at the same time misses one. You see, where increased aim assist, melee lunge and bullet magnetism took away skill, button combos added ten times that amount.
Halo 2 still takes much more skill than Halo 3 and Reach could never take, it’s even almost comparable to CE when it comes to skill. If the aim assist, melee lunge and bullet magnetism hadn’t been so huge, it would probably have had the biggest skill gap of all Halo games thinking as it only loses slightly to CE.
> > > I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk
> >
>
> I have seen that video so many times (and sometimes even referred to it to remind people who are overzealous, that Halo 2 is not perfect). That video shows a very valid point, but at the same time misses one. You see, where increased aim assist, melee lunge and bullet magnetism took away skill, button combos added ten times that amount.
>
> Halo 2 still takes much more skill than Halo 3 and Reach could never take, it’s even almost comparable to CE when it comes to skill. If the aim assist, melee lunge and bullet magnetism hadn’t been so huge, it would probably have had the biggest skill gap of all Halo games thinking as it only loses slightly to CE.
Yeah, I presume button combos did add skill, but to someone who was good with combos I’ll bet they hardly ever missed their shots also. I’d like to see them do their combos in CE if they existed in CE.
Most of the time the more skilled player does kill the less skilled player… if they can use strategy (like finding some way to hide from the less skilled player until your the more skilled player’s shields go back up again).
However, there are way too many situations where it just comes down to a skilled and an unskilled player firing all over the place with their DMR. In these cases, it seems like too often it is the unskilled player that kills the skilled player because they get really lucky with their DMR shots.
> I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
Yea the double beatdown is awful and shouldn’t ever exist again.
> > I never remember dieing by so many grenades and melees. Halo 2 really made the Skilled out there. IF you were bad you had no chance in killing a skilled player. Halo reach with all the bs they just double beat down.
>
> Yea the double beatdown is awful and shouldn’t ever exist again.
Even though halo 2 had many flaws, I’ve had the most fun with halo 2’s multiplayer.
Agreed. It’s common sense. AAs, bloom, and slow kill times have turned Halo into randomness with no skill gap. Individual skill is hugely overshadowed by teamwork (which is bad because almost all teamwork in Reach is accidental, seeing as though very rarely do people call out). Reach is also very inconsistent, since the skill of your teammates is just as or even more important to your performance than your own individual skill.
> The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.
Not if two players spam.
The luckier player wins.
> > The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.
>
> Not if two players spam.
>
> The luckier player wins.
That doesn’t ever happen, EVER.
Stop with the lies or show us video proof. Two people, with the same aim, start shooting at the same time in a match making game.
IT
NEVER
HAPPENS
Get off it.
> > > The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.
> >
> > Not if two players spam.
> >
> > The luckier player wins.
>
> That doesn’t ever happen, EVER.
>
> Stop with the lies or show us video proof. Two people, with the same aim, start shooting at the same time in a match making game.
>
> IT
> NEVER
> HAPPENS
>
> Get off it.
What if I show you a video where the less skilled player wins by spamming?
Does that count?
I agree that this should be a goal. While better players will still win most of their encounters, most of the time, Reach has allowed for too many dice rolls within the process.
IMO, Bloom is public enemy number one for that count, as it is the aspect that directly adds luck into the system with every shot taken.
> What if I show you a video where the less skilled player wins by spamming?
>
> Does that count?
No, Skyfighta died with 11 rounds in his DMR. That means he fired only 4 shots. He couldn’t have been robbed of a kill due to bloom, he didn’t fire the necessary number of minimum shots required for a kill in the first place.
And hell, his team won 75-18 with him going 16-5.
The lesser skilled lost the game. Skyfighta died not because he was out spammed, but because he was out shot. Raging about a 16-5 slaughter… I’m sorry you feel your perfection as a player isn’t being rewarded properly.
Let’s look at each shot here. The first shot, the reticule was RED, but the target was not in the inner circle. Bullet magnetism should have taken over from there if the reticule was red at all on first shot but it looks like it didn’t. Bloom had nothing to do with the first shot however, because obviously it was at rest. That was a bad shot.
2nd and 3rd shots he hit.
The 4th, the reticule wasn’t even red.
He got two shots in. It was a bad play. A simple bad play. Give me a link where a player is using the DMR as directed and the bloom screwing them over. Crouching, pacing, and making sure the target is in the inner circle.
Why are people using this as proof that bloom is bad? Do all the complainers need an eyecheck now?
> > > > The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.
> > >
> > > Not if two players spam.
> > >
> > > The luckier player wins.
> >
> > That doesn’t ever happen, EVER.
> >
> > Stop with the lies or show us video proof. Two people, with the same aim, start shooting at the same time in a match making game.
> >
> > IT
> > NEVER
> > HAPPENS
> >
> > Get off it.
>
> What if I show you a video where the less skilled player wins by spamming?
>
> Does that count?
What the other two said, this is just more video proof that I’m right.
The lesser skilled player always loses.
For all of you Bloom haters using theory to make your point, you have no proof of it actually ever occurring.
You are literally complaining about something that NEVER happens.
> > > > > The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.
> > > >
> > > > Not if two players spam.
> > > >
> > > > The luckier player wins.
> > >
> > > That doesn’t ever happen, EVER.
> > >
> > > Stop with the lies or show us video proof. Two people, with the same aim, start shooting at the same time in a match making game.
> > >
> > > IT
> > > NEVER
> > > HAPPENS
> > >
> > > Get off it.
> >
> > What if I show you a video where the less skilled player wins by spamming?
> >
> > Does that count?
>
> What the other two said, this is just more video proof that I’m right.
>
> The lesser skilled player always loses.
>
> For all of you Bloom haters using theory to make your point, you have no proof of it actually ever occurring.
>
> You are literally complaining about something that NEVER happens.
Yeah right - people kill other people online all of the time just by trigger spamming with the DMR. That video is all the proof we need to say that lesser skilled players kill more skilled players all the time just because they get lucky.
I don’t know if you don’t play reach enough to notice, or if you just don’t realize it when you or some other guy trigger spams a player to death, but it really does happen all the time.
In that video, the blue Spartan DID spam, however if the user from the first person view had saw him coming, placed all his shots right and paced he would have won.
The video is trying to hold some proof that spammers win but in reality it’s doing nothing because the user in first person view panicked and sucked.
> Yeah right - people kill other people online all of the time just by trigger spamming with the DMR. That video is all the proof we need to say that lesser skilled players kill more skilled players all the time just because they get lucky.
>
> I don’t know if you don’t play reach enough to notice, or if you just don’t realize it when you or some other guy trigger spams a player to death, but it really does happen all the time.
More like this:
> In that video, the blue Spartan DID spam, however if the user from the first person view had saw him coming, placed all his shots right and paced he would have won.
>
>
> The video is trying to hold some proof that spammers win but in reality it’s doing nothing because the user in first person view panicked and sucked.
This video was not an example of two spammers coming upon a random outcome.
This video is an example of the lesser skilled player losing.
PROOF RIGHT HERE
example 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92AzqwqCaNw
the other guys shield was taken down before he took any hits at all. then bloom screwed him over even though his aim was perfect and the other guy got the kill.
example 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc
he gets the first 4 shots perfect then the other player out lucks him.