Are they really way worse than you if you can’t beat them?
>
You know what, 90% of Halo Reach player base may enjoy it in it’s current state, but this doesn’t mean the game is good. Most of that 90% don’t know and care about gameplay mechanics. They don’t care as long as they can have fun and get kills. What comes to the 10%, they know about gameplay mechanics and can appreciate a good game.
If those 10% got to decide the game mechanics, they would make the game very good and competitive (assuming they were cooperating), but what would that 90% of the player base do? Nothing, maybe one or two pointless complaints because some people couldn’t abuse something like armor abilities anymore. But most of that 90% simply wouldn’t care, they wouldn’t notice the difference.
Let’s leave that for a while and talk about bloom. No matter what Josh Hamrick says, at mid range the DMR bloom can be considered as a coin flip. You see, there is no line where spamming ceases to be effective. There is just this huge area where the odds are too even. This area is all the way from the furthest effective range of Shotgun to the furthest effective range of AR. At this range it doesn’t matter do you spam or not.
This happens alot on medium sized maps. This is why BTB is the only playlist where I have seen bloom to function properly, because BTB relies on long range combat. At mid range it will be random, if you don’t notice it, you either play against opponents that are too bad or you can’t read gameplay.
People never see the whole picture or are just afraid to admit being wrong.
> People never see the whole picture or are just afraid to admit being wrong.
Probably the latter of the two. Usually when arguments stop having any semblence of facts or evicence (things like “you just keep saying the same thing!” and having no back up, for example), people feel backed into the wall and get defensive and logic goes out the window.
oops double post
> > People never see the whole picture or are just afraid to admit being wrong.
>
> Probably the latter of the two. Usually when arguments stop having any semblence of facts or evicence (things like “you just keep saying the same thing!” and having no back up, for example), people feel backed into the wall and get defensive and logic goes out the window.
Again, that post was taken out of context as the Bloom hater I had quoted there got their posts erased and for that mine was edited by a mod apparently.
If I were in your shoes and had just read that post, I would be thinking it was silly argument too.
> > > People never see the whole picture or are just afraid to admit being wrong.
> >
> > Probably the latter of the two. Usually when arguments stop having any semblence of facts or evicence (things like “you just keep saying the same thing!” and having no back up, for example), people feel backed into the wall and get defensive and logic goes out the window.
>
> Again, that post was taken out of context as the Bloom hater I had quoted there got their posts erased and for that mine was edited by a mod apparently.
>
> If I were in your shoes and had just read that post, I would be thinking it was silly argument too.
Fair enough.
I think I speak for many, though, when I say it would be nice to see some factual defense of bloom and how it works right now. The biggest gripe people have is that the possibility exists for a lucky kill and that can and has been tested in multiple settings.
I suppose if it just comes down to your opinion of being satisfied with that and how it works that’s a whole different story and the debate is kind of pointless since opinions are opinions and we are all entitled to our own.
> So based on that, you figure out that Bungie was telling you this whole time to pace your DMR in any range and situation?
>
> Find yourself a source where Bungie says “Pace all the time and you’ll win all the time” THEN you’ll have a point (maybe).
>
> Otherwise you’re continuing to hurt your own argument by drawing your own implied (and incorrect) conclusions.
>
> You’ll find that Bloom is fine and works as intended.
so what you are saying is, you acknowledge the fact that spamming is far less optimal, but you still think when it wins vs pacing thats a good thing? why is it better for the correct way of shooting at mid range to be so unclear? how is it better to have bloom implemented so that if you dont even observe the concept, you can still win out until long range some of the time? im failing to see how you think this way, please enlighten us. also, since pacing (at 74% win) is CLEARLY more optimal than pacing, when someone pacing their shots gets killed by someone spamming, they lost to someone shooting worse. how is it better to make people who shoot worse get kills over people who shoot better?
or are you honestly trying to say that when someone shoots in a way that would only make them win 24% of the time, and they get a kill, they are the one who shot better (even tho they completely ignored the mechanic LOL).
> Previous Halo’s were broke, and you abused that. This Halo fixed those problems so you could no longer abuse them.
so, i make a list of things that are all clearly terrible, and your response is ‘previous halos were broke’ and i abused that? are you kidding me?
what things did abuse did they fix so i couldnt ‘abuse’?
shoot better to win battles? yea thats terrible. why would a FPS game want that. LMAO!
throw good grenades because grenading takes a bit of skill? yea, lets keep grenades mini nukes so any halfwit durdle can chuck them in peoples general area and blow them up without them being able to escape them with movement alone. clearly more optimal. oh jeez, i’ll stop ‘abusing’ my ability to throw grenades with skill, my bad.
perform more skullfully in close combat, and in doing so, win the battle? yea, thats also something that doesnt make sense. lets give the kill to the kid who just runs in and uses 2 autoaimed melee attacks. its clearly better to throw the vast majority of skill out the window with melee battles in favor of letting terrible players win some of the time with the slap-in-the-face easy mechanics (that are also unintuitive, and illogical lol). shooting in close combat to have an impact on the battle 100% of the time? NOPE thats too obvious / makes too much sense.
outplay someone only to have them press one single button for invincibility with a long enough duration that their teammates will be able to save them at higher levels of play. yep, lets keep this in. its not like the majority has a negative feeling about this or anything. this one is alright, i just wont play team slayer ever again, nor will i play in any playlist that features armor lock.
and map control? naw… thats a bad concept. lets just throw that out the window. its much better / makes the game play a lot better to have noobs flying out of the woodwork constantly and consistently from every single angle. definitely makes the game feel more ‘clean and crisp’ when you see spartans flying over 75 feet ABOVE the map. makes sense tho, the matchmaking system is atrocious at pairing like-skilled people together, so when noobs play against pros they need some way of breaking the setup right? oh wait, they’ll still get smashed because they shouldnt be playing each other in the first place.
did i miss anything guywiired? please elaborate on how ANY of the core game mechanics in halo reach are better than… ANY of the core game mechanics in ANY of the previous halo games.
no really. do it. halo reach melee vs halo 1, 2, or 3 melee system. reach doesnt win because its the worst one. its the most illogical, and unintuitive of them all. you dont like button combos? how about halo 3. that melee system actually makes sense. how is the reach melee system better than the halo 3 one? (aside from some elaborate scheme of letting terrible players, who are matched with people far better than them, get kills by sprint + melee + melee, the easiest combo known to man)
how about grenades? how are halo reach’s mini nukes better than grenades that actually take some semblance of skill to throw, and use? how is it better to have grenades that are so GOD TIER INCREDIBLE you literally should NEVER SHOOT YOUR NON-POWER WEAPON if you have a mini nuke to throw first? is this game a first person shooter, or a first person grenadier? LOL
and shooting. let me make this very simple for you:
if someone shoots better than someone else, who should win? the person who shoots better, or the person who shoots worse?
> At the end of the day, I really have to ask myself why in the hell I continue to bump threads where guys like you lie about the mechanics and your sources, and continue to take people out of context.
yea, spamming beats pacing some of the time. im such a liar huh? LOL
> And before you say it’s more than just you three, I’ll point to the classic playlist, or the arena playlist or MLG, no one plays them. Not because they agree with you, but actually because they disagree with you. They aren’t interested in classic mechanics, or rating systems, or “pro” settings.
this playlist is nice, but the reason it doesnt have a high population is because the people it was made for
DONT PLAY HALO REACH BECAUSE OF ITS TRASHY MECHANICS
also, in this playlist some of the problems with reach are actually ACCENTUATED. case in point. if you spam your DMR in the classic playlist, and get them to no shields and miss the headshot, it will only take 2 body shots instead of 3 to get the kill. because of this spamming is actually MORE effective. its also 1 mini nuke and 1 DMR / pistol bullet for a kill. pretty sick! just toss a grenade, then shoot them one time before it explodes for a kill. best game evar. then we have melee combat, requiring 3 melees to kill someone. def feels straightforward and optimal when you have to spend the majority of your time meleeing 1 person over and over and over so they’ll die instead of just shooting them… and smacking them once like you could in other halo games.
then we have the maps. dreadnaught. what a great map. is top control any good? oh yea, thats right its amazing. yanno what this map features? TWO TELEPORTERS that lead to the top of the map. thats the only way up there. GOOD JOB BUNGIE! way to implement one of the most atrocious maps EVER MADE into the classic playlist.
> Seriously, prove me wrong here… What playlist consistently has the highest playlist population, the lowest wait times, and all the AA’s you can eat?
the playlist catered to the people the game was made for? im finding it hard to understand why you would bring this up as proof of something working.
> At the end of the day, you’re a niche group whining that you don’t have your niche settings jammed down the rest of our throats.
and yet, whomever i talk to all agrees that
1.) the person who shoots better should beat the person who shoots worse
2.) armor lock is blatantly overpowered
3.) jet pack makes the game feel like a joke
4.) no-bleed is the most terrible, unintuitive, illogical melee system to ever appear in a halo game
5.) grenades in reach are mini nukes
> >
>
> You know what, 90% of Halo Reach player base may enjoy it in it’s current state, but this doesn’t mean the game is good. Most of that 90% don’t know and care about gameplay mechanics. They don’t care as long as they can have fun and get kills. What comes to the 10%, they know about gameplay mechanics and can appreciate a good game.
>
> If those 10% got to decide the game mechanics, they would make the game very good and competitive (assuming they were cooperating), but what would that 90% of the player base do? Nothing, maybe one or two pointless complaints because some people couldn’t abuse something like armor abilities anymore. But most of that 90% simply wouldn’t care, they wouldn’t notice the difference.
>
> Let’s leave that for a while and talk about bloom. No matter what Josh Hamrick says, at mid range the DMR bloom can be considered as a coin flip. You see, there is no line where spamming ceases to be effective. There is just this huge area where the odds are too even. This area is all the way from the furthest effective range of Shotgun to the furthest effective range of AR. At this range it doesn’t matter do you spam or not.
>
> This happens alot on medium sized maps. This is why BTB is the only playlist where I have seen bloom to function properly, because BTB relies on long range combat. At mid range it will be random, if you don’t notice it, you either play against opponents that are too bad or you can’t read gameplay.
>
> People never see the whole picture or are just afraid to admit being wrong.
this. you dont make a game with the terrible people in mind. you make a game with the PRO people in mind, then pair the more intuitive, straight forward, logical mechanics with
GHASP
a matchmaking system that pairs LIKE SKILLED PLAYERS
i know. its a revolutionary concept.
making the game for the people who actually know whats going on 100% of the time, and how 100% of the mechanics work. CRAZY CONCEPT!
> > > > You all keep saying the same damn thing, but it’s not true.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow, you really have nothing, do you; not a single factual argument. I got you to the point of admitting that there was randomness last time. I got you to the point of admitting that there was a chance that, at mid-range, player A who isn’t as good as player B could still win because of randomness, even if player B lands all of his/her shots firing at the optimal rate of fire for that range. I have used facts to prove you wrong. You have absolutely nothing. If you decide to respond to this, claiming that I am wrong, please respond to everything that I have said my last post, including all of the facts that it refers to. If you ignore this post, then I will assume you have finally realised that you are wrong. If you’re response has nothing factual in it, then it has no credibility.
> >
> > CHILL MAN.
> >
> > Where you have me quoted above, I was quoting someone who’s posts were deleted.
> >
> > You’re taking my quote completely out of context when replying to me here.
>
>
>
> Still doesn’t change the fact that you are unable to contradict anything that I have said, hence your ignoring of my posts. Facts are fun!
some people arent here to discuss. they are only here to say “NOPE! PERFECT!”, and throw logic and reason completely out the window.
bloom does take less skill but that really doesn’t affect the gameplay neither does the AA’s. In halo 3 my average was about 15 kills and in reach my average is 20. Not a big difference and how is a noob killing you? Noobs drive around in mongooses and warthogs with no passengers, use jetpack inside, waste armor lock and walk in the middle of the killzone, they are obviously not noobs killing you. Infact you may be a noob considering you don’t know how to back up and wait 5 seconds for armor lock to wear off, holograms flicker, jetpacks are basically big signs saying i’m over here shoot me with a dmr, you are givin a warning if someone invisible is in the area, drop shield is another bigass sign and people with avade often kill themselves. So if you don’t know how to use armor abilitys and don’t know how to counter them YOU ARE THE NOOB, so stop -Yoink- and get skills or go play cod.
> bloom does take less skill but that really doesn’t affect the gameplay neither does the AA’s.
hah good one
In reference to a guywired’s post from the other page, Halo is all about domination by the skilled players. Halo CE, 2 and 3 all had it. They tweaked the BR so that it couldn’t dominate on big maps as much with a bullet spread, which I was OK with, in Halo 3. The fact that guywired says Halo was never meant to be dominated by a single gun is not only un-true, but equally hilarious, short sighted, ignorant, and harebrained.
In Reach, they hired game designers who had no previous experience with Halo. The sandbox designers came from a game called Shadowrun. They simply changed the game too much in favor of players who don’t look for the skilled weapons as their primary. They made the game easier for the casual. Reach, to me, is still not a true “Halo” game and I will not ever call it one until bloom is removed on the DMR, Pistol, and Needle Rifle.
> Really though, that isn’t what he is saying. What this debate is about isn’t a matter of opinion. He is saying that luck doesn’t exist, which is completely wrong; as proven by the facts that I have provided which he constantly ignores.
That’s the impression I have been getting, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt sometimes. If people really do believe that luck plays no factor in DMR duels then they just don’t understand (or they ignore) the facts.
Luck isn’t as big a factor as people make out. If you can pace your 5-shot, you’ll win 99% of times against spammers, and it’s simply an accuracy/ first shot battle with someone who paces their shots.
In other words: STOP WHINING
> bloom does take less skill but that really doesn’t affect the gameplay neither does the AA’s. In halo 3 my average was about 15 kills and in reach my average is 20. Not a big difference and how is a noob killing you? Noobs drive around in mongooses and warthogs with no passengers, use jetpack inside, waste armor lock and walk in the middle of the killzone, they are obviously not noobs killing you. Infact you may be a noob considering you don’t know how to back up and wait 5 seconds for armor lock to wear off, holograms flicker, jetpacks are basically big signs saying i’m over here shoot me with a dmr, you are givin a warning if someone invisible is in the area, drop shield is another bigass sign and people with avade often kill themselves. So if you don’t know how to use armor abilitys and don’t know how to counter them YOU ARE THE NOOB, so stop -Yoink- and get skills or go play cod.
if you dont think bloom doesnt effect gameplay, then you arent observant enough to notice. not only does it effect gameplay, it effects it in a MASSIVE way.
in halos 1, 2, AND 3, if you shot better, you would win (save some host advantage, and a TINY bit of bullet spread issues). in halo reach, if you shoot better, you will be beaten by the person shooting technically worse, or less optimally, some of the time. this is literally one of the most unintuitive, moronic, illogical mechanics i have ever seen in a FPS game, straight up.
if you dont think armor lock is anything but BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED its probably because you arent playing with people who know how to abuse it, or are (somehow) too slow to press that one single button when they are in danger of being killed. that, or the armor locker might have terrible teammates who are too slow to save him, or he might not even make the call out for his teammates to save him. you also said ‘YOU JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO COUNTER THEM’ so let me ask you this: how do you counter invincibility? no really. give me 1 example of something you can do to counter invincibility. out of ideas? me too. the solution ‘wait’ DOES NOT WORK when you arent playing against bad players because they will just call in their teammates to save them 90% of the time. its pathetic, but the VERY BEST THING you can POSSIBLY DO (tried and true), at higher levels of play, when you see someone go into armor lock, is just dip out. no joke. dont try to stay and wait till it runs out because you’ll be dead by then. even if you manage to get off the grenade to kill your target, hes probably weakened you by then, and god knows you cant 2v1 people in reach thanks to its atrocious mechanics (without using a mini nuke or a power weapon). so yea. see someone armor lock -> dip out. how fun does the game become when thats the most optimal way to play it? NOT FUN AT ALL.
armor lock makes team slayer 100% unplayable for me, and many others.
the fact of the matter is, at higher levels of halo play, not only is armor lock BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED, its also laughable that it was ever implemented in the first place. if you ask ANY of the halo pros if armor lock is currently properly implemented, NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM WOULD SAY YES. not one. not only that, the majority of the community also DESPISES its implementation.
then you have jet pack. sure, when you play against idiots who just fly straight up its not a big deal because they are basically spawning then suiciding. when you play against competent people, however, jet pack literally removes ALL SEMBLANCE of the concept of ‘map control’ from the game. for me, and many others, jet pack makes the game feel like a FPS game made for CHILDREN, instead of a serious FPS game like its always been. it makes halo feel like a joke, especially when jet pack is featured in the serious playlists. jet pack in arena? LAUGHABLE! jet pack in team slayer? LOL WUT?!?! halo has never felt so mind-numbingly stupid.
> Luck isn’t as big a factor as people make out. If you can pace your 5-shot, you’ll win 99% of times against spammers, and it’s simply an accuracy/ first shot battle with someone who paces their shots.
>
> In other words: STOP WHINING
false. but thanks for trying. case in point: if spamming didnt work, then why do infinite people complain about it killing them on a consistent basis?
also, if spamming only 1% of the time, why do so many people full auto spam? LOL
i find it hilarious that you are actually COMPLAINING about other people COMPLAINING. how ironic is that? LOL
> > Really though, that isn’t what he is saying. What this debate is about isn’t a matter of opinion. He is saying that luck doesn’t exist, which is completely wrong; as proven by the facts that I have provided which he constantly ignores.
>
> That’s the impression I have been getting, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt sometimes. If people really do believe that luck plays no factor in DMR duels then they just don’t understand (or they ignore) the facts.
that, or they simply arent observant / good enough to notice when they are dying to full auto spam.