The Skilled Player should kill the Less Skilled Player - Community Discussion

Games Other Halo
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> I don’t even…
>
> Firstly, Bloom isn’t random. It’s random if you don’t pace yourself. If you jump out and spam the trigger as fast as possible like a BR from Halo 3, bloom will mess you up. If you’re losing to someone DMR vs DMR and blaming it on bloom, perhaps you AREN’T the more skilled player because you haven’t learned to master the skill of patience necessary. Maybe you have better K/D or better rank, but with that weapon you’re probably outmatched until you learn not to spam.
>
> Second, Armour Lock isn’t broken. I pretty much only use Armour lock on the second wave of Invasion on Spire, because at all other times all it does is A) hypnotise some players into standing still waiting for you to come out of your shell, and/or B) give you a guaranteed death sentence of 5 seconds. The guy with Armour Lock cannot get to power weapons as fast as the guy with sprint, evade or jetpack. He cannot dupe the enemy like the guy who brings invisibility or hologram, and he can’t help his teammates like someone who brings Dropshield. Armour Lock is only good against CQC rush-punch tactics or uncommon swords/shotguns, and it has a ball achingly long regen time after use. If you’re losing to people who bring Armour Lock over and over in a game, it’s not random or unbalanced, it’s just you going it alone, getting obsessed with waiting for the kill at the expense of everything else, or getting too close.
>
> I don’t mean to flame or say you’re bad at the game, because I’m sure you aren’t, and I’m a self confessed casual gamer myself. I’m here for the fun and little else, I don’t DO -Yoink!- contests about who’s the top dog or whatever. But the DMR is a good solution or a genuine problem that existed in Halo 3, namely the BR making all other weapons obsolete at all but extremely close distance. It’s still a damn good weapon in the right hands, but it’s not gonna suit every situation anymore like it’s cousin. And Armour Lock is a very restrictive power to bring, which despite cropped has the payoff of letting you survive an explosion or shotgun blast… But you only have 5 seconds tops to Macguyver yourself out of the exact same situation once it runs out, or be rescued by a teammate.
>
> Maybe you’re a skilled player, but these things aren’t insurmountable and shouldn’t be treated as gamebreakers. They just aren’t.

You couldn’t spam the BR. I had a set, slow rate of fire. I’m tired of kids saying you could spam the BR, implying it took less skill than the DMR.

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The Halo3 BR fires 32 bullets as fast a DMR spams 15. The ROF is twice that of the DMR. The trigger speed and ROF are two separate issues on the Halo3 BR.

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Anyone here saying the H3 BR wasn’t random too is misinformed and needs to read up on the game mechanics of H2 and H3 (H3 was waaaaay worse). The H3 BR’s random spread couldn’t not be mitigated in any way, which resulted in less long range kills and tons of random lucky kills. At least with the DMR if there is a cross map one shot, I can hit him with a shot and know if I miss it was my fault. I don’t love the Bloom of the DMR for a lot of the reasons mentioned, but it is a huge upgrade over the H3 BR…

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*could NOT be mitigated…

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> Here you go http://imageshack.us/f/832/joshhamrick.png/
>
> P.S. I would never lie about such claims.

Looks Photo-shopped (out of context) to me.

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> > Here you go http://imageshack.us/f/832/joshhamrick.png/
> >
> > P.S. I would never lie about such claims.
>
> Looks Photo-shopped (out of context) to me.

Haha, I was expecting such a comment from you. I merely erased my twitter username.

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> > Here you go http://imageshack.us/f/832/joshhamrick.png/
> >
> > P.S. I would never lie about such claims.
>
> Looks Photo-shopped (out of context) to me.

And actually, have now read that entire Twitter thread, Pavskies, that discussion lacks any type of range description.

But you are told the truth.

The DMR has a little over-lap with some weapons, but it’s the perfect BR replacement because it’s designed so it doesn’t dominate the same way the BR did.

Bloom is fine, move on people.

Josh vs. Steve

PS: Do you remember when you though him and I were the same guy? LOL, wrong (again!).

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> The DMR has a little over-lap with some weapons, but it’s the perfect BR replacement because it’s designed so it doesn’t dominate the same way the BR did.

Most people want to be able to dominate with the BR again, though.

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> > The DMR has a little over-lap with some weapons, but it’s the perfect BR replacement because it’s designed so it doesn’t dominate the same way the BR did.
>
> Most people want to be able to dominate with the BR again, though.

If everyone spawns with a BR, it would be fair.

screw those AR + Magnum spawns

give us AR + BR :smiley:

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Let’s just go with what the Bungie employee said “95% of the time pacing works.” That can be taken that 5% of the time you could get screwed, I’m not a fan of that.

Fact still remains that 5 spammed shots land in 5 random locations every time and you can pace your shots all day long to your hearts content but the fact that it is possible for a spammer to get lucky when they don’t deserve it flat out sucks.

There is no amount of arguing that can deny that point.

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> There you go again, someone doesn’t agree with you, or points out that you’re wrong, and you report them for trolling.

its not that you dont agree with me, its that you constantly and consistently make the most blatantly ridiculous statements that are either based in ignorance, or lacking in logical foundation. and where did i say i reported you, exactly? sorry, but im not a child, and im not going to cry to the mods because you dont bother me in the least.

> I keep asking you where you heard this lie. Site your source, c’mon, lets see it! “the game wants you to optimally pace your shots” sounds like you dreamt that the game was speaking to you and that you have to share that with the world. IT’S CRAZY.

you want my source? how about you. are you a source that you would listen to?

lets use the fact that you use: spamming beats pacing 26% of the time, and pacing beats spamming 74% of the time. i hope the facts that you have used are good enough for you.

LOL.

or wait… is it that you dont think 74% is better odds than 26%? if thats the case i assure you 74% is wayyy higher than 26%, and thus, more optimal.

> WHAT IS YOUR OBSESSION WITH WANTING TO CALL THE BAD SHOOTER: “THE BETTER SHOOTER”?!?!

i said this because its something you seem to have trouble understanding:

> And in every thread I answer you: The better shooter ALWAYS wins.

> What’s so difficult about the concept of not being able to determining the more skillful player in more than JUST ONE KILL!!?!?!?!?! NO ONE DOES THIS. Not even you! And if you come back and tell me that you do, we’ll all know you’re lying.
>
> Because skill isn’t and has not ever been completely calculated by a single kill, let along 1 in 4.

its never been about skill guywiired. try to stay on topic bro, as i have never brought this up. the crux of the issue is that the person who SHOOTS BETTER should win 100% of the time because its COMPLETELY, and TOTALLY ILLOGICAL for the person who shoots WORSE to win against the person who shoots better. its illogical, unintuitive, and contradictory to have mechanics that would let people win the majority of the time by playing the game optimally (by observing the mechanic of bloom), whilst also rewarding people who do not observe the mechanic some of the time too. how is this so hard to understand?

> why should the person observing the mechanics lose to the person making no attempt to?

> Because they spent too much time observing something and not enough time killing something. Yeah, I really feel decimated here… /sarcasm

how is this not a troll statement? you cannot seriously be trying to add to the discussion with this type of babble.

> if bloom isnt broken, why do roughly a BAZILLION people dislike it?

> Because people don’t like change, your posts make that OBVIOUS.

have you even read my posts? not once have i said bloom was a bad idea. actually, ive stated quite frequently that bloom is a PHENOMENAL idea, it was just implemented poorly in halo reach.

> You guys who can’t deal with bloom, all whine about the same mechanics. “whaaa, I hate AA’s” “whaaa, I hate bloom” “whaaa, I want to be ranked” “whaaa, Halo ‘X’ was better”. It’s literally why you haters can’t be taken seriously AND why the upcoming changes will be rolled out to the classic playlist only.

thats the thing guywiired. its not that things changed, its that they got worse. things have been downgraded to mind-numbingly easy (whilst also unintuitive, illogical, and often times rage inducing) mechanics so any soccer mom gamer can compete, when all they would need to do is PAIR LIKE SKILLED PLAYERS to completely and totally make the learning curve a non-issue. sure, it might work / make sense for legit level 25’s, but when you are a higher level halo player (im a level 50 in h3) and you have learned ALL of the mechanics IN AND OUT like the back of your hand (of EVERY halo game), you will be able to see imperfections like

-never in the history of halo has someone who shot technically ‘worse’, or ‘less optimally’ been rewarded with a kill. in halo reach, spam your balls off at mid range, and you’ll win against someone who was pacing their shots with a flawless cadence AND hitting EVERY SINGLE SHOT some of the time.
-never in the history of halo has the primary weapon spawn for competitive games boiled down to a COIN FLIP race to see which person can land 4 spammed shots first.
-never in the history of halo has a player been given the ability to get out of literally damn near EVERY SINGLE non-sniper-bullet-to-the-face kill with 6+ seconds of INVINCIBILITY with the touch of ONE SINGLE BUTTON.
-never in the history of halo has map control been thrown COMPLETELY out the window with the inclusion of ANYTHING (except maybe super bounces in halo 2, which are regarded as HORRIBLE for halo by 99.99999999% of the community in the first place)
-never in the history of halo have grenades been damn near impossible to dodge by movement alone.
-never in the history of halo has the viability of shooting to get ahead in close combat been thrown out the window by a melee system -some- of the time. close combat battles have ALWAYS given the kill to the person who performed the more skillful action. in halo reach, you just sprint then melee twice because 'no bleed’z got your back.

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> > > The DMR has a little over-lap with some weapons, but it’s the perfect BR replacement because it’s designed so it doesn’t dominate the same way the BR did.
> >
> > Most people want to be able to dominate with the BR again, though.
>
> If everyone spawns with a BR, it would be fair.
>
> screw those AR + Magnum spawns
>
> give us AR + BR :smiley:

Only was the spawning unfair was when Halo 2 was only SMG starts in BTB. I loved this because I could rack up overkills with the Sniper easier. Team Slayer on that game played alright with AR starts I remember, so it’s not like the BR was invincible.

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“Two players enter a room, the player with the most skill leaves.” - H:CE-3

R.I.P.

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> > The DMR has a little over-lap with some weapons, but it’s the perfect BR replacement because it’s designed so it doesn’t dominate the same way the BR did.
>
> Most people want to be able to dominate with the BR again, though.

You’re completely missing his point then.

The only people wanting a dominate BR are you three.

What Josh is trying to explain to you is that Halo was never meant to have one dominating weapon. It was only ever meant to have a balanced sandbox, the BR NEVER offered that.

Like he says, if you have a weapon that is THAT overpowered, what’s the point of Halo’s 2-gun system?

You need to be punished (or rewarded) for making the wrong (or right) type of loadout decisions. It’s always been that way, even in CE.

Otherwise, we might as well let people run around with 15 different guns strapped to their back.

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> > You all keep saying the same damn thing, but it’s not true.
>
>
> Wow, you really have nothing, do you; not a single factual argument. I got you to the point of admitting that there was randomness last time. I got you to the point of admitting that there was a chance that, at mid-range, player A who isn’t as good as player B could still win because of randomness, even if player B lands all of his/her shots firing at the optimal rate of fire for that range. I have used facts to prove you wrong. You have absolutely nothing. If you decide to respond to this, claiming that I am wrong, please respond to everything that I have said my last post, including all of the facts that it refers to. If you ignore this post, then I will assume you have finally realised that you are wrong. If you’re response has nothing factual in it, then it has no credibility.

CHILL MAN.

Where you have me quoted above, I was quoting someone who’s posts were deleted.

You’re taking my quote completely out of context when replying to me here.

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>

Blah blah blah

> > I keep asking you where you heard this lie. Site your source, c’mon, lets see it! “the game wants you to optimally pace your shots” sounds like you dreamt that the game was speaking to you and that you have to share that with the world. IT’S CRAZY.
>
> you want my source? how about you. are you a source that you would listen to?
>
> lets use the fact that you use: spamming beats pacing 26% of the time, and pacing beats spamming 74% of the time. i hope the facts that you have used are good enough for you.
>
> LOL.
>
> or wait… is it that you dont think 74% is better odds than 26%? if thats the case i assure you 74% is wayyy higher than 26%, and thus, more optimal.

So based on that, you figure out that Bungie was telling you this whole time to pace your DMR in any range and situation?

Find yourself a source where Bungie says “Pace all the time and you’ll win all the time” THEN you’ll have a point (maybe).

Otherwise you’re continuing to hurt your own argument by drawing your own implied (and incorrect) conclusions.

You’ll find that Bloom is fine and works as intended.

> -never in the history of halo has someone who shot technically ‘worse’, or ‘less optimally’ been rewarded with a kill. in halo reach, spam your balls off at mid range, and you’ll win against someone who was pacing their shots with a flawless cadence AND hitting EVERY SINGLE SHOT some of the time.
> -never in the history of halo has the primary weapon spawn for competitive games boiled down to a COIN FLIP race to see which person can land 4 spammed shots first.
> -never in the history of halo has a player been given the ability to get out of literally damn near EVERY SINGLE non-sniper-bullet-to-the-face kill with 6+ seconds of INVINCIBILITY with the touch of ONE SINGLE BUTTON.
> -never in the history of halo has map control been thrown COMPLETELY out the window with the inclusion of ANYTHING (except maybe super bounces in halo 2, which are regarded as HORRIBLE for halo by 99.99999999% of the community in the first place)
> -never in the history of halo have grenades been damn near impossible to dodge by movement alone.
> -never in the history of halo has the viability of shooting to get ahead in close combat been thrown out the window by a melee system -some- of the time. close combat battles have ALWAYS given the kill to the person who performed the more skillful action. in halo reach, you just sprint then melee twice because 'no bleed’z got your back.

Previous Halo’s were broke, and you abused that. This Halo fixed those problems so you could no longer abuse them.

No one hates this game as much as you do, I get it.

And I keep hoping that eventually they make a playlist or patch to which satisfies you, while leaving the content as is for the majority of Reach Players who love this Halo.

At the end of the day, I really have to ask myself why in the hell I continue to bump threads where guys like you lie about the mechanics and your sources, and continue to take people out of context.

The three of you hate Halo Reach. Have fun playing together on that playlist they make just for you guys.

And before you say it’s more than just you three, I’ll point to the classic playlist, or the arena playlist or MLG, no one plays them. Not because they agree with you, but actually because they disagree with you. They aren’t interested in classic mechanics, or rating systems, or “pro” settings.

They never were.

That was only ever a torch held by self-proclaimed “Skilled Player”(s) to hold over “Less Skilled Player”(s). (the subject of this delightful little thread…)

This game is fine, and will continue to be fine with or without the likes of guys like you who hate it, and come here every day to tell us that.

Seriously, prove me wrong here… What playlist consistently has the highest playlist population, the lowest wait times, and all the AA’s you can eat?

At the end of the day, you’re a niche group whining that you don’t have your niche settings jammed down the rest of our throats.

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