>
Thank you so much for your support in this thread! If there was a button with a thumb on it next to your name I would abuse it… alot (:
The amount of arrogance I see out of some people is starting to get pretentious. I’ve seen dozens of people in this thread go so far as to claim they know the DMR well when they’re negative with it. Seriously, at least have that stats to boast your claim that you’re a “master” of the DMR and bloom.
> The amount of arrogance I see out of some people is starting to get pretentious. I’ve seen dozens of people in this thread go so far as to claim they know the DMR well when they’re negative with it. Seriously, at least have that stats to boast your claim that you’re a “master” of the DMR and bloom.
As long as it is understood that the stats don’t show “DMR vs DMR” battle outcomes, they show DMR kills and deaths. If someone uses the DMR nearly exclusively, it shows. If someone uses more variety, heck, even a preference for the NR, it will show. If someone uses the NR a lot in a playlist where few players do, it will skew the numbers to look like they’re god-like with it (which of course, with enough experience in the situations where it is best used, they will appear as so quite often). Gotta remember context.
this isnt COD where the high ranked people have huge advantages, this is Halo where second chances and equality roam freely silly man
> this isnt COD where the high ranked people have huge advantages, this is Halo where second chances and equality roam freely silly man
QFT
This reminds me of, “Who is more foolish the fool or the fool who follows him”
> > > >
> > >
> > > honestly, we should just have tsassi make the game mechanic decisions for 343. if this was done, the game would be flawless :D. well said bro, thanks for hopefully helping people understand!
> >
> > Thank you. I am always willing to help people to understand the foundations of skill in Halo. Shame that Reaper doesn’t seem willing to understand.
>
> And yet I have offered the suggestion of a heavy variant precision weapon to choke the sandbox on the upper level if needed. One that needs careful attention to what maps or weapons it interacts with as it is nearly a game breaker. (it’s there in other topics.)
> Using such a weapon because of the style of play you enjoy is completely different than how much skill it takes. In team orientated games, you need that extra skill to shine. Reach requires that extra (without faking it in).
>
> I’ve also mentioned early in this topic, but I’ll expand further, that I wouldn’t mind faster ROFs, less expansion on the bloom of the precisions (the bloom doesn’t exceed the static reticle, AR stays the same, the Pistol should have its crosshairs expand just slightly outside of the static.) and the AR gets more ammo to compensate. For my preferred style, it would work out great.
> Doesn’t mean bloom is broken. (and though it is admittedly not perfect, don’t use the Bungie guy said it’s not perfect when I can just say that they would have removed Halo:CE’s 3-shot kill and Halo2’s button combos with TUs if they could have. It’s not a great path to travel).
I didn’t specifically say anything about the Halo CE pistol, which I believe you are referring to. So I don’t see why you pulled that in, but the gameplay style I enjoy may not be completely who much skill it takes, but is heavily related to that. More need for team work doesn’t mean the game requires more skill, it just means the game requires more team work. You see, as I have said before, team work is brought by the players, it has no set limitations in the game, other than is voice chat allowed or not. This is why team work can’t be used as a measure of skill required, same amount of team work can be applied to any game if people have chance to discuss with eachother.
Now if we leave alone the team work, only thing left for us is individual skill, which has set boundaries by the game. These boundaries include things such as aim assist, bullet magnetism, RoF, bullet damage, jump height, movement speed, etc. Very basic gameplay elements.
This is exactly why only meaningful way to look at how much skill the game requires is by looking at all the gameplay elements, and how they can be more skillful. Let’s take kill times for example, slow kill times make team shotting more important, thereby limiting the team’s abilities to move around and control the map. Fast kill times give players chance to move alone, while still keeping the importance of team shotting as in a 2v1 situation the two players still have an advantage, but the one player can still outplay both by shooting well. This creates more flexibility to the gameplay when if the team is good enough, they can move more freely around the map unlike the team that is in the boundaries of team shotting, thereby the other team gets way better chances at controlling the map. Four individuals can always cover a bigger area than two pairs.
Bungie would have removed many elements if they had been able to, but if they want to remove an element, it doesn’t mean the element doesn’t take skill, it only means Bungie either doesn’t know much about skill or doesn’t care about skill. After all, you must not forget that rarely do developers care about skill as skill is for the competitive players who are the minority. Why should the developer care about skill when majority of gamers don’t?
Broken has the meaning of not working as wanted. Thereby there are many things in Reach by this definition aren’t broken, Armor Lock and bloom could be two of these. We can’t know what Bungie wanted. With this definition, bloom isn’t necessarily broken, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a bad addition in general. If Bungie wanted bloom to be a mechanic that makes part of DMR battles a coin flip, bloom isn’t broken, but it still is a bad addition in general.
Same way can be talked about button combos and CE pistol, both didn’t work as intended, both were broken. This doesn’t mean they were bad, both were extremely good additions that lifted the skill gap to unimaginable heights.
I absolutely agree. Bloom and AAs ruin the game and made Reach into a coin flipping luck based game which takes the (A) out of H.A.L.O. Which is why AAs and Bloom should be burned in flames and stay out of Halo 4. Bring the BR back and make Halo 4 exactly like Halo 2 and 3 please 343.
> I absolutely agree. Bloom and AAs ruin the game and made Reach into a coin flipping luck based game which takes the (A) out of H.A.L.O. Which is why AAs and Bloom should be burned in flames and stay out of Halo 4. Bring the BR back and make Halo 4 exactly like Halo 2 and 3 please 343.
You’re missing the point. I wouldn’t want exact Halo 2 or 3, but they could just choose the best gameplay elements from all of the games and develop them further. Halo 2 and 3 and even CE all had some bad aspects. While I can’t name exact aspects from Halo CE, I say that aim assist and bullet magnetism in Halo 2 were way too big and teh netcode sucked in both Halo 2 and 3.
I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t enjoy laggy matchmaking. BR isn’t necessarily needed to be brought back, nor is the halo CE pistol. Both weren’t perfect weapons, both could go through improvement (although one more than the other). There could be new features added that instead of being gimmicks that require no skill to use, would actually add depth to the gameplay. Evade is a good example, while it had the same problem as sprint, which was making CQC weapons bit too useful, it still added a small layer of skill without really damaging anymore gameplay. I would be happy if it came back in a form where it had slightly more speed, but it wouldn’t go as far.
Bloom is another example, while making it to actually only punish spammers would be somewhat hard, it’s still possible to implement it in a fashion where it actually adds something to gameplay.
I go on vacation for 3 days out drinking with all my friends and this is what the thread turns into!?
All I see is constant repeating of the same points, and using the same videos that are pro-bloom and not anti-bloom, but are attempting to be used as anti-bloom evidence. Irony at its finest!
Haha all I have to say is I’m very disappointed Halo community… I mean, you are all just grasping on straws here. Not only that, but common trolling logic was being used on many posters, especially those pro-bloom. Instead of discussing the issue at hand, you all began attacking him on a personal level. Very juvenile.
Not even just that, everyone keeps neglecting to say “DMR’s bloom is broken”. The other guns in the game have FANTASTIC bloom that work beautifully. How is this even possible!?
From skimming through most of the giant posts, I see the same main point. That a “random” system like bloom should not be in any game, ever. But some of the best games out there have it… Counterstrike, Battlefield, etc. It’s fairly common to punish players who panic and just spam their shots everywhere.
But, with a system like this in place, the sole fact there is a POSSIBILITY of it is making the game “broken”. But, the probability is very low. There is no denying that. If bloom was as random as everyone tries to make it seem, there wouldn’t be much of a gap between the great players and the good players, all the way to the awful players.
I’m able to regularly dominate almost every match I’m in, mostly due to my 10 years of playing Halo experience. If the DMR’s bloom was so random, everyone in the game would be at a 1.0 K/D ratio exactly and there wouldn’t be any MVP type players.
The real issue isn’t with bloom at all.
It’s change. The game is changing and it scares people into panic-hate.
Here’s a PERFECT example. Go to any Sublime with Rome song on Youtube… as we all know, (if I’m the only one who knows this, I feel OLD) their old lead singer died of a heroin overdose way back when. Incredibly sad. Now, the band got back together as Sublime with Rome instead of just Sublime with a brand new lead singer.
Read those comments. Read them. Then tell me it’s not just because of change.
The new lead singer sounds amazing, even sometimes better than the old one. They’re all great guys and make great music. But he’s different… He is “change”. The horribly negative comments are some of the most hurtful things I’ve ever read. And the ONLY reason they are so hateful is because of change.
This is just a sad panic-hate situation, much like bloom in Halo. (Nowhere near as big of a change, mind you) It’s change. Change scares people into hating it. It’s an incredibly ignorant perception to have in life where any little change to something you love is instantly viewed as negative.
I’m going to start attacking the real issues people have with Halo, and it’s all change. The actual gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with it, the evidence clearly shows that. Either people make up “statistics” or show the same 2-3 videos (Hilariously bad videos at that…) to “prove” that bloom is broken.
I love the Halo community, the good and the bad. I accept it for everything it is, but this HAS to stop. Change is not bad. The Halo franchise needs to evolve or else it will die.
If any sort of change is bad, then I suggest you just stick with the older games then. Nothing will appease the Halo-purists besides a literal port of the same game every single year. The fact that some of you have this viewpoint makes everything you say invalid, as regardless of the changes made, it will always be viewed as negative.
Now I hope to continue this discussion in a civil manner (There’s not much else to even be said), so let’s talk about how to make bloom work even better than it already does.
The DMR’s bloom needs to be wider as the shots are spammed, but the bloom reticle itself needs to reset quicker to compensate for the increase in bloom. Boom, DMR becomes who has the better shot and literally 99.9% of encounters are fully based on player’s skill, regardless of distance.
> From skimming through most of the giant posts, I see the same main point. That a “random” system like bloom should not be in any game, ever. But some of the best games out there have it… Counterstrike, Battlefield, etc. It’s fairly common to punish players who panic and just spam their shots everywhere.
when people use the word ‘random’ they are talking about the outcome of a pacer vs spammer battle at medium range, or a spammer vs spammer battle at close range. punishing people who spam is DEFINITELY the way to go when you implement bloom, the problem is bungie didnt implement bloom to punish people who spam ENOUGH.
because of this we have a lot of people who spam simply because they dont know better, being rewarded for playing the game improperly (mid range).
> I’m able to regularly dominate almost every match I’m in, mostly due to my 10 years of playing Halo experience. If the DMR’s bloom was so random, everyone in the game would be at a 1.0 K/D ratio exactly and there wouldn’t be any MVP type players.
bloom being implemented poorly doesnt really effect people who have ‘adapted’ (a common troll word) to the fact that even if they shoot better, they will still lose to people who shoot worse. ‘adapting’ to the DMR’s piss poor bloom algorithm effectively means ‘dont 1v1 DMR people’ even tho this situation not only happens often, its one of the most common situations IN THE ENTIRE HALO SERIES.
]
1v1s with our primary weapon spawn? NAWWWW those arent important.
> The real issue isn’t with bloom at all.
>
> It’s change. The game is changing and it scares people into panic-hate.
change is absolutely NOT the issue. if bloom was implemented PROPERLY, to punish people who spam when they shouldnt be 100% of the time, there would be no complaining regarding people spamming somehow winning because it wouldnt happen.
CHANGE is good. taking steps into unintuitive, illogical, contradictory mechanics is BAD. the game wants people to pace at mid range because it wins the majority of the time, and yet… if you pace your shots, you will still lose to someone spamming theirs.
effectively what this boils down to is 1 person plays the game as intended by the developers, and he loses to the person making no attempt to play the game as intended by the developers because apparently the developers didnt TEST THE GAME ENOUGH.
heres a good point on bloom:
who benefits when spamming beats pacing at mid range? the spammer certainly doesnt benefit because he gets slapped in the face by people playing the game as intended the majority of the time. the pacer doesnt benefit, he just feels bamboozled for somehow losing even tho he:
-played the game as intended by the developers
-shot technically better (or more optimally)
-landed all of his shots
-then died to the kid flailing around mashing the R trigger to no end.
not ONCE have i been spammed to death then thought ‘WOW THIS GAME IS SICK’. its more like, ‘wow, this game is trashy, i cant believe i did a 1v1 DMR battle in halo reach’. literally 100% of the time i get spammed to death at mid range, EVEN IF IM NOT SHOOTING BACK, its frustrating. i think you understand this frustration, however. just like anyone capable of telling when they die to spamming at mid range would. matter of fact, is there EVEN ONE SINGLE PERSON on this planet that ENJOYS getting spammed to death at mid range? i seriously doubt it.
> The fact that some of you have this viewpoint makes everything you say invalid, as regardless of the changes made, it will always be viewed as negative.
i disagree. if someone just says something like ‘bloom is bad, remove it’ obviously they are either unaware of what they are talking about, or they just havent said why. arguing against change is one thing, but arguing against changing mechanics into unintuitive, sloppy, gimmicky nonsense is another.
> The DMR’s bloom needs to be wider as the shots are spammed, but the bloom reticle itself needs to reset quicker to compensate for the increase in bloom. Boom, DMR becomes who has the better shot and literally 99.9% of encounters are fully based on player’s skill, regardless of distance.
agreed.
how about this suggestion:
if the DMR is more than 5% bloomed it CANNOT get headshots
and it takes 2 more body shots to kill someone (5).
i’d love to see a spammer win with those changes LOL.
The extreme majority of the people who agree with you Urza are the ignorant types. Period. Every single one of the dozens upon dozens of changes that ARE going to happen with Halo 4 will be whined and whined about. Regardless of any possible change that they could POSSIBLY MAKE will be viewed negatively. There is literally not a single thing they can do to stop that.
Anything and everything you say is purely your own opinion with no objective or factual basis. Trying to explain your viewpoint on that sort of a basis just leads to bad discussion. You’re far too one sided on the issue to have any compromise or to even consider my own viewpoint and changes so… Let’s just stay away from that kind of stuff.
With that being said, let’s just continue with what we can about tweaking the DMR’s bloom, yes?
Your changes are WAY too extreme and would just ruin the gameplay. Let’s try to be realistic and come up with actual tweaks that the DMR needs.
If someone would like to post videos fully rendered of the DMR, Needle Rifle, Assault Rifle, and the Pistol being spammed so we can see how quickly the reticle expands resets, that would be great.
We need to compare them from other items in the game to make it easier to discuss the changes on a deeper level then what we can now!
> Anything and everything you say is purely your own opinion with no objective or factual basis. Trying to explain your viewpoint on that sort of a basis just leads to bad discussion. You’re far too one sided on the issue to have any compromise or to even consider my own viewpoint and changes so… Let’s just stay away from that kind of stuff.
what factual basis do you need? the only thing im using as ‘fact’ is spamming beats pacing at mid range some of the time, which is true, wouldnt you agree?
i dont even really know what your viewpoint is, or how it differs from mine. it seems to me like were on the exact same page, thinking bloom should be tweaked to work better. what have i said that you dont agree with?
and as far as compromise goes, what you you thinking we should compromise about? im willing to work towards compromise, so long as the end result is a mechanic that is intuitive, logical, straight-forward, and non-contradictory. basically exactly the opposite of what bloom is currently on the DMR lol.
if its letting the person who shoots technically worse win, you are right, i would not be able to compromise. this is just because it literally could not make any less sense to have the game function that way. maybe if even one single person could give me ONE reason why the person who shoots worse should win against the person who shoots better (in a 1v1) i would be more apt to listening to this point of view, but literally not one single person will be able to do this.
that or if someone could give me ONE example of someone who benefits when someone spamming beats someone pacing.
honestly, if thats how the game works in some playlists thats fine, just give me 1 team slayer, 1 team objective, and 1 team classic playlist where the person who shoots better (in any 1v1 gun vs same gun battle) wins 100% of the time.
> With that being said, let’s just continue with what we can about tweaking the DMR’s bloom, yes?
>
> Your changes are WAY too extreme and would just ruin the gameplay. Let’s try to be realistic and come up with actual tweaks that the DMR needs.
>
> If someone would like to post videos fully rendered of the DMR, Needle Rifle, Assault Rifle, and the Pistol being spammed so we can see how quickly the reticle expands resets, that would be great.
>
> We need to compare them from other items in the game to make it easier to discuss the changes on a deeper level then what we can now!
yea, the changes i just suggested were pretty extreme. there are obviously other changes that are less durastic, and more realistic lolz.
> The extreme majority of the people who agree with you Urza are the ignorant types. Period. Every single one of the dozens upon dozens of changes that ARE going to happen with Halo 4 will be whined and whined about. Regardless of any possible change that they could POSSIBLY MAKE will be viewed negatively. There is literally not a single thing they can do to stop that.
I don’t know about the majority, but if that’s the case I’m not part of the majority. I also happen to believe that’s not the case as, at least for a while, I haven’t seen many people excluding me to agree with Urza. Anyway, of course everything will always be whined about, you can’t please everyone, but the difference is, who are the people whining? Those who know what they’re talking about or those who don’t? In case it’s the latter, there is no reason to listen them as they probably can’t form a decent argument. What could they say anyways? “Aww, this game sucks, it requires too much skill”, really?
Now I’m not saying these players should be left alone, after all, they just want to have fun in their own way. Of course the game could be made better for them too. You see, if the game is versatile enough it pleases almost everyone, this was the case with Halo 2 and is definitely not the case with Reach. Of course someone will still whine, and so they do, no matter what, but sometimes there isn’t as much reason to whine.
> Anything and everything you say is purely your own opinion with no objective or factual basis. Trying to explain your viewpoint on that sort of a basis just leads to bad discussion. You’re far too one sided on the issue to have any compromise or to even consider my own viewpoint and changes so… Let’s just stay away from that kind of stuff.
>
> With that being said, let’s just continue with what we can about tweaking the DMR’s bloom, yes?
>
> Your changes are WAY too extreme and would just ruin the gameplay. Let’s try to be realistic and come up with actual tweaks that the DMR needs.
>
> If someone would like to post videos fully rendered of the DMR, Needle Rifle, Assault Rifle, and the Pistol being spammed so we can see how quickly the reticle expands resets, that would be great.
>
> We need to compare them from other items in the game to make it easier to discuss the changes on a deeper level then what we can now!
Not everything is purely based on opinion. Only thing that is my opinion here is that I like skill, otherwise almost everything I say is supported by pretty good reasoning and observation and could thereby be taken as a fact. Bloom is random, there have been multiple tests and statistics to prove that, you can’t prove that there are no random outcomes with bloom. You can’t even prove those outcomes are too rare to be taken seriously because they aren’t.
My viewpoint here is that Halo Reach needs bigger skill gap. Why is it that no one had said a counter argument to me that Halo Reach wouldn’t need bigger skill gap? They have only tried to argue that bloom isn’t random, which is stupid as there is alot of evidence to tell it is.
It’s hard to discuss about what tweaks DMR bloom needs when some people don’t want any tweaks because they seem to think that randomness is fun. I haven’t proposed any changes this far, but one of them I like is this. That fix wouldn’t harm gameplay in any way. You can’t really say anything against it. That’s the only change proposal I actually like, it’s not very extreme change and it’s only impact on gameplay would be that spammers get punished.
Oh Urza… C’mon now. I will attempt to continue this a little more.
Bloom is a great gameplay mechanic that introduces another level of skill required to hit your shots. It’s very comparable to having bullet drop in the Battlefield games.
The person who panics and just goes all out without thinking about it will get you killed. That’s how bloom should work.
Now, the DMR’s bloom needs to be a little less precise like I’ve described.
Sure, sometimes the worse player will win. Spraying and praying has been around since the days of Counterstrike. It just happens. It’s very rare, but just running into an area wielding an M60 in Battlefield and spraying everywhere CAN get you kills, it doesn’t make it a bad gameplay mechanic. It just happens.
Is it theoretically possible that someone can get 12 headshots in a row while spraying at over 100 feet in Call of Duty or Battlefield, or even Counterstrike? Yes. But according to you, that makes those games broken.
So, let’s continue the conversation, yes? Stop pushing your ideals on to me as fact when they’re clearly not. Bloom is a gameplay mechanic introduced to let the more skilled player win instead of just spamming R as fast as possible. Just leave this part out of a quote you make and start at the next line. I’m tired of trying to argue opinions, let’s actually discuss something OBJECTIVE and not SUBJECTIVE, ok?
Those videos would be a great help if anyone would care to… If not tomorrow I’ll get some game time in and test it in Customs.
What I’m thinking is it should be more akin to the Pistol but not as intense. The DMR needs to maintain its mid-range dominance to fit into the sandbox as well as not being too powerful to throw off the Assault Rifle, Needler, Needle Rifle, etc. Basically it can’t become TOO strong to completely break balance.
It’s very difficult without all of the data so… Hopefully a relatively simple fix wouldn’t be too hard to accomplish.
I do believe that just raising the bloom and lowering the reticle reset time would do the trick though.
> Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a even game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players are more challenged and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.
wut
So in your sense, a player who is clearly better can get outplayed by a soccer mom?
If that’s the case, then the smarter student should earn the same grades as the lesser student. Because the student who studies and works hard for his grades is technically equal to the student who spends all his time on Facebook, right?
No. If the player is better simply because he can aim better, coordinate with his team, and outplay others, the lesser player shouldn’t be given a crutch he can lean on so he can “fight back.” That’s not fair, that’s socialism: instead of rewarding the good for being good and encouraging the bad to become better, you are punishing the good for doing their best and rewarding the bad for taking advantage of the crutches. If the good player spent his time to sharpen his skills so that he can play well, the player should clearly be rewarded for doing so. In return, the bad player should be punished for his poor performance and bad decisions, which encourages the player to work on his individual skill, which, in turn, provides room for improvement. What I see in Reach is the good players being punished for having a good cadence and trying to outplay the bad player, and the bad player are being given crutches, such as armor abilities and bloom, so that his skillset would “equal” the better player, and he would have a better chance of winning.
Players who work hard to play well should be rewarded and bad players who bring their team down and make bad decisions should be encouraged to improve. That was what Halo was about. When have you ever seen in any past Halo game where the better player is encouraged to play with cheap tactics and crutches, and bad players are rewarded for doing so?
> I haven’t proposed any changes this far, but one of them I like is this. That fix wouldn’t harm gameplay in any way. You can’t really say anything against it. That’s the only change proposal I actually like, it’s not very extreme change and it’s only impact on gameplay would be that spammers get punished.
The issue with that is that the reticle’s reset time would be a bit too long… I like the concept though. Needs more data than just a little animation like that though!
> Oh Urza… C’mon now. I will attempt to continue this a little more.
>
> Bloom is a great gameplay mechanic that introduces another level of skill required to hit your shots. It’s very comparable to having bullet drop in the Battlefield games.
>
> The person who panics and just goes all out without thinking about it will get you killed. That’s how bloom should work.
>
> Now, the DMR’s bloom needs to be a little less precise like I’ve described.
>
> Sure, sometimes the worse player will win. Spraying and praying has been around since the days of Counterstrike. It just happens. It’s very rare, but just running into an area wielding an M60 in Battlefield and spraying everywhere CAN get you kills, it doesn’t make it a bad gameplay mechanic. It just happens.
>
> Is it theoretically possible that someone can get 12 headshots in a row while spraying at over 100 feet in Call of Duty or Battlefield, or even Counterstrike? Yes. But according to you, that makes those games broken.
>
> So, let’s continue the conversation, yes? Stop pushing your ideals on to me as fact when they’re clearly not. Bloom is a gameplay mechanic introduced to let the more skilled player win instead of just spamming R as fast as possible. Just leave this part out of a quote you make and start at the next line. I’m tired of trying to argue opinions, let’s actually discuss something OBJECTIVE and not SUBJECTIVE, ok?
>
> Those videos would be a great help if anyone would care to… If not tomorrow I’ll get some game time in and test it in Customs.
>
> What I’m thinking is it should be more akin to the Pistol but not as intense. The DMR needs to maintain its mid-range dominance to fit into the sandbox as well as not being too powerful to throw off the Assault Rifle, Needler, Needle Rifle, etc. Basically it can’t become TOO strong to completely break balance.
>
> It’s very difficult without all of the data so… Hopefully a relatively simple fix wouldn’t be too hard to accomplish.
>
> I do believe that just raising the bloom and lowering the reticle reset time would do the trick though.
For me, doing so would make the DMR more suited for ODST gameplay. Which of course, a Halo meets Rainbow6/GRAW experience, wicked 
I think for Spartan gamplay, if we shrunk the influence of the bloom just a bit, we could keep the bullet-magnetism bonus a lot of players have become accustom to while keeping ranges somewhat in check.
Personally, I feel there is room for both FPS’ in the Haloverse to begin with. I would really like ODST to concentrate on night-time and insertion missions with the Spartans doing what they do best, bringing full out war.
> > Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a even game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players are more challenged and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.
completely agree with bacon on this one. think about it this way, what serious games in real life reward un-skilled play, or give players extra leeway for being less skilled? if 2 basketball teams play against each other in a tourney, one team isnt given more points at the start of the game simply because they are known to be a worse team. they would also ABSOLUTELY NEVER give points to people if they missed the shot. i can hear it now “he shoots! he… misses, alright lets roll the dice… HE GETS POINTS ANYWAYS WOO HOO!”. this is effectively how halo reach is when it comes to the DMR lol.
and honestly, if im a bad player, why am i playing against good players in the first place?!
> Anyway, of course everything will always be whined about, you can’t please everyone, but the difference is, who are the people whining? Those who know what they’re talking about or those who don’t? In case it’s the latter, there is no reason to listen them as they probably can’t form a decent argument.
EXACTLY! ive been saying this for years, because it only makes sense. its about as logical as picking randoms off the street to vote on designs for the engines of future spacecrafts.
> Bloom is a great gameplay mechanic that introduces another level of skill required to hit your shots. The person who panics and just goes all out without thinking about it will get you killed. That’s how bloom should work.
totally agree. im 100% FOR the concept of bloom. i think its a fantastic way to add both skill gap AND depth to the game.
> Now, the DMR’s bloom needs to be a little less precise like I’ve described.
how do you mean less precise? i cant recall you talking about DMR’s precision.
> Sure, sometimes the worse player will win. Spraying and praying has been around since the days of Counterstrike. It just happens. It’s very rare, but just running into an area wielding an M60 in Battlefield and spraying everywhere CAN get you kills, it doesn’t make it a bad gameplay mechanic. It just happens.
this is where i lose you. halo is a very different game than battlefield, COD, counterstrike, etc. halo has much longer kill times and shots required to kill someone.
i dunno, maybe this is just the ‘halo purist’ in me, but i really cant see someone shooting technically worse winning against someone shooting technically better in a halo setting being a good thing. in those other games it makes sense because those games have MUCH faster kill times and require maybe 2-4 bullets to kill someone (for call of duty at least, averaging at ~3 bullets to kill someone, im not sure about counterstrike or battlefield, as i dont play those games). even if the bullets required to kill someone are the same as in halo, a random stray headshot will kill in 1 or 2 bullets (correct?), where as in halo we are protected from headshots by our shield.
> Is it theoretically possible that someone can get 12 headshots in a row while spraying at over 100 feet in Call of Duty or Battlefield, or even Counterstrike? Yes. But according to you, that makes those games broken.
i see what you are saying, but in this example its pretty unreasonable. this will almost never happen. if the DMR’s bloom made the person spamming win less than 1% of the time (like the probability of getting 12 headshots in a row by spraying at 100 feet lol) i would be 100% fine with it. it wouldnt be noticeable, and it would make the game feel much more clean and crisp. especially considering it would give bad / ignorant players the ability to EPIC FAIL by spamming, as they will lose 99% of the time if they do it against someone who paces their shots. not only that, you would be able to EASILY beat 2 spammers IN A ROW at mid range if you simply shot your gun as intended, which would also be a massive plus for the game.
> So, let’s continue the conversation, yes? Stop pushing your ideals on to me as fact when they’re clearly not.
what facts are you even talking about?! i almost never use facts in my statements because random people always say ‘PROVE IT’. most of my arguments are based off of the most broad, unarguable statistics (like over 50%, and spamming wins vs pacing some of the time at mid range) that i could possibly use.
> > I haven’t proposed any changes this far, but one of them I like is this. That fix wouldn’t harm gameplay in any way. You can’t really say anything against it. That’s the only change proposal I actually like, it’s not very extreme change and it’s only impact on gameplay would be that spammers get punished.
>
> The issue with that is that the reticle’s reset time would be a bit too long… I like the concept though. Needs more data than just a little animation like that though!
Of course the reset rate could easily be tweaked to allow more faster shots. That way the bloom would severely punish spammers and we would finally get a consistent DMR that has nothing to do with luck. I literally see nothing bad in that concept.
It should also be noted that this is pretty old suggestion and got couple thousand supporters when it was presented on b.net last year.