The Skilled Player should kill the Less Skilled Player - Community Discussion

In Halo : Reach I find myself losing to players who are way worse than me. I think that in Halo 4 the better player should be able to outplay the less skilled players because, well… they are more skilled.
How on earth can a player who is bad at a game win from players who have more experience with the game and are more skilled? this shouldn’t even be possible.

If you are a very skilled player you’ve showed dedication to the game and you should be able to destroy people who are worse than you because you simply are the better player.

In Halo : Reach bad players can win from players who are better than them simply because all of the random factors in this game such as bloom and broken armor abilities (Armor Lock), and because of overpowered weapons who are also very easy to use (The Concussion Rifle for example).

Someone pleas explain to me how a less skilled player can beat a more skilled player, and why this should be possible.

It just doesn’t make sense to me, and I find it strange that it has changed from Halo CE to Halo 2 to Halo 3 to Halo Reach that the good player beats the worse player.

If this is being fixed for Halo 4, then Halo 4 MUST have a very good ranking/true skill system because less played players should be matched up with less skilled players and very skilled players should be matched up with very skilled players.

I think that good players should be awarded for being good at a game by beating the worse players simply because of the fact that they are the better ones.

I think that they should implement a weapon in Halo 4 such as the Halo Combat Evolved Magnum or the Battle Rifle… don’t start flaming now m’kay? I think that they should because with these weapons the better player almost always beat the worse player from Close Quarter Combat to Medium Range Combat to Long Range Combat. I rarely found myself killing more skilled players with a Battle Rifle because those were the players that used tactics, strafed and had a very good aim. why should those players be punished by getting beaten by worse players in a one on one battle? It just doesn’t sound right to me. sure, rarely a less skilled player killed the more skilled player because they choked or just missed a shot… but this is what it should be like, a player should be punished for their own faults instead of a weapon that just doesn’t work well such as the Designated Marksman Rifle(DMR for short).

But this is all my opinion, feel free to say that you agree with some of my points and/or post your own ideas, after all, this is a forum :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you for reading :3

Of course it should be this way, not to be elitist of anything, but coin flip battles aren’t Halo.

Lesser player beats the skilled in Reach because of Bloom.

Bloom in precision weapons if you ask me, shrinks the skill gap even more than armor lock.

The BR should most definitely be in Halo 4.

if armor lock is in there then it makes sence. but if its not its hard to say whos more skilled.
concusion rifles are like brute shots firing the same damage and rate so it makes sence if you are bad at fighting one.
Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a even game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players are more challenged and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.

> Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a Random game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players get out luck’d more and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.

Fix’d.

I agree completely with the OP and with MC iz Rippin.

I had a BTB game last night. BTB Snipers. 3 players on my team kept complaining that if the other team didn’t all have snipers… if they were fighting fair or with DMRs, they’d show them a thing or 2. The biggest complainer was a top 10% Onyx complaining that with everyone with a sniper, the game was stupid and unfair or something like that.

We lost of course and crappy me outperformed the top 10% Onyx of my team because they were poorly skilled players on the enemy team and I beat those with my experience at sucking. Meanwhile my much more skilled teammate was unfairly beaten by lesser players because Reach caters to said unskilled players.

The above story is mostly true… mostly (my sucking is subjective of course, everything else happened)

Listen, I’m not going to be typing something long. Although your post if full of redundancies I stuck with it.

Although I agree with you I feel as if you assume that this happens all the time. It doesn’t; it happens sometimes. It sucks that it does as it should never happen, but, and here comes the point, there are already so many threads iterating this point we really don’t need another.

Bite your tongue or find an existing thread.

I agree that there are overpowered less-skilled weapons that are easy to use. Take the Concussion Rifle and the Needler for example. Those two weapons should not do the damage they do. They should at least have a slower fire rate, because they are just point and shoot weapons that don’t require any precise aim.

> In Halo : Reach I find myself losing to players who are way worse than me. I think that in Halo 4 the better player should be able to outplay the less skilled players because, well… they are more skilled.

It’s funny you should bring that up. When I am the more skilled player, 90% time I win. My strong suite is knowing exactly how the Designated Marksman Rifle works, past 10 meters, pacing wins, every time. Closer, a mix of spam and pacing will win. Or were you talking about double melee? Guess what tool is meant for those cheap tactics? AL. I swear to each and every last one of you, I won’t stop these posts until I get it through your heads the lesser skilled player hardly ever wins in Reach.

> If you are a very skilled player you’ve showed dedication to the game and you should be able to destroy people who are worse than you because you simply are the better player.

I can.

> In Halo : Reach bad players can win from players who are better than them simply because all of the random factors in this game such as bloom and broken armor abilities (Armor Lock), and because of overpowered weapons who are also very easy to use (The Concussion Rifle for example).

Spread is random. Bloom is the visual representation of randomness that had existed in all the games in SOME form or another. If you are going to whine about bloom, whine about the lack of it in past games because it never showed you your spread in the past games. And broken armor abilities? Their not random, if they can spawn with them…you can spawn with them. Don’t even start about AL. If your enemy ALs when you are trying to AR charge, you get EMP’d and checked into the smack down hotel, you deserve it, honestly. AR charging is asking for it. However if you are DMRing him, you have two options…wait it out, throw a grenade and kill him, or, simply go away. You don’t get a kill but they don’t get a kill out of you durping and looking at a pretty glowing man for seven seconds while reinforcements could come.

> Someone pleas explain to me how a less skilled player can beat a more skilled player, and why this should be possible.

They can’t. It’s just that this game is more complex than SHOOT IT UNTIL IT DIES RAAWWWRRRRGGHHH like the past games, maybe they realize it, maybe you don’t.

> I think that they should implement a weapon in Halo 4 such as the Halo Combat Evolved Magnum or the Battle Rifle… don’t start flaming now m’kay? I think that they should because with these weapons the better player almost always beat the worse player from Close Quarter Combat to Medium Range Combat to Long Range Combat. I rarely found myself killing more skilled players with a Battle Rifle because those were the players that used tactics, strafed and had a very good aim. why should those players be punished by getting beaten by worse players in a one on one battle? It just doesn’t sound right to me. sure, rarely a less skilled player killed the more skilled player because they choked or just missed a shot… but this is what it should be like, a player should be punished for their own faults instead of a weapon that just doesn’t work well such as the Designated Marksman Rifle(DMR for short).

Oh yeah, lets get a weapon that kills anyone in 3 shots and goes as far as 122.7 meters, only weapon anyone will ever use. Ever. Barring extremely large maps. Or hey, it’s lesser brother the BR that kills in four bursts that still toppled any weapon if it had hitscan in skilled hands. Can’t be bothered to use any other weapons.

> I agree that there are overpowered less-skilled weapons that are easy to use. Take the Concussion Rifle and the Needler for example. Those two weapons should not do the damage they do. They should at least have a slower fire rate, because they are just point and shoot weapons that don’t require any precise aim.

The Needler requires a maintained lock to keep tracking. Its power is offset by requiring the user to keep a constant red-reticle on the enemy. Often that means keeping one’s self in the open or be forced to team up. An enemy killed in while they’re in the open by a Needler should not curse it, they should expect it.

The Concussion Rifle’s power is no different than a Halo3 Brute Shot against infantry. It has about the same range but can have more because it flies in an arc (like all explosive weapons it seems). It does have the added bonus of forcing a player off the ground so that they cannot engage Armour-Lock.

And all this talk about precise-aim… shall I bring out the Halo2 video again? You know the one where it proves that aiming in Halo2 was not a requirement (until the combos became dominate, then only just a smidgen more)?

I have no problem absolutely dominating some games.

This is just a thought, but maybe this is your own personal skills that need improvement? Many Halo: Reach players have been involved with Halo for 10 years… If I wasn’t as good as I am after that much dedication to a franchise I’d be surprised.

Now, here’s where it may get a little hard to understand me, OP. Judging based off of a quick look at your stats, it seems as though you really aren’t that good at the game. You have hardly any games played in Halo 3 or Halo: Reach. I alone have more time in Halo: Reach this early in the game’s life cycle than your time in Halo 3 or Reach combined.

Please, don’t take this as a personal attack or in any way trying to invalidate your opinion based off of poor gameplay statistics. It’s just something to think about.

Maybe it’s not the game, MAYBE it’s you. That’s all I’m saying, nothing more.

Hey I completely agree. As a very poor player, however, Id appreciate being better matched more frequently with players at my real skill ability (I wont use the word level).

On one hand, I really admire some of your guys abilities, me trying to do the same becomes a terribly frustrating experience. , however. Its a skill that my aging hands (Im 43), just cant learn.

That said, there are times when I realize that most in my group are along the same lines and I have a great time. Unfortunately, this is a rare experience.

I have occasionally killed a skilled played more thru luck than anything else. But its not often and I actually play worse when trying to gain one of the blunt weapons as mentioned.

Blah, I want to have fun, but getting trounced regularly is killing my enthusiasm.

> Hey I completely agree. As a very poor player, however, Id appreciate being better matched more frequently with players at my real skill ability (I wont use the word level).
>
> On one hand, I really admire some of your guys abilities, me trying to do the same becomes a terribly frustrating experience. , however. Its a skill that my aging hands (Im 43), just cant learn.
>
> That said, there are times when I realize that most in my group are along the same lines and I have a great time. Unfortunately, this is a rare experience.
>
> I have occasionally killed a skilled played more thru luck than anything else. But its not often and I actually play worse when trying to gain one of the blunt weapons as mentioned.
>
> Blah, I want to have fun, but getting trounced regularly is killing my enthusiasm.

Try going to search restrictions and searching for ‘similarily skilled’ players, then pysche profile and search for good time, then on top of that go to Action Sack.

Fun times should be ahead! Hopefully.

> > In Halo : Reach I find myself losing to players who are way worse than me. I think that in Halo 4 the better player should be able to outplay the less skilled players because, well… they are more skilled.
>
> It’s funny you should bring that up. When I am the more skilled player, 90% time I win. My strong suite is knowing exactly how the Designated Marksman Rifle works, past 10 meters, pacing wins, every time. Closer, a mix of spam and pacing will win. Or were you talking about double melee? Guess what tool is meant for those cheap tactics? AL. I swear to each and every last one of you, I won’t stop these posts until I get it through your heads the lesser skilled player hardly ever wins in Reach.

Even though I agree that the more skilled player wins 90% of their games because Halo Reach fails at matching like skilled players, I must say that the DMR bloom doesn’t work. I made a test with it two days ago, just to see the results. I tested short (from melee distance to highest effective distance of Shotgun), mid (from teh highest effective dstance of Shotgun to teh highest effective distance of AR) and long (above from the highest effective distance of AR) ranges. At short range, I found spamming to always be effective, up to the start of mid range, at least 9/10 of my spam shots were five shot kills. At mid range, at least half of my spam shots were five shot kills. Long range was the only range I found spamming ineffective while unskoped.

That already proves the DMR bloom to be too random. Five spammed shots should never beat five paced shots.

> > In Halo : Reach bad players can win from players who are better than them simply because all of the random factors in this game such as bloom and broken armor abilities (Armor Lock), and because of overpowered weapons who are also very easy to use (The Concussion Rifle for example).
>
> Spread is random. Bloom is the visual representation of randomness that had existed in all the games in SOME form or another. If you are going to whine about bloom, whine about the lack of it in past games because it never showed you your spread in the past games. And broken armor abilities? Their not random, if they can spawn with them…you can spawn with them. Don’t even start about AL. If your enemy ALs when you are trying to AR charge, you get EMP’d and checked into the smack down hotel, you deserve it, honestly. AR charging is asking for it. However if you are DMRing him, you have two options…wait it out, throw a grenade and kill him, or, simply go away. You don’t get a kill but they don’t get a kill out of you durping and looking at a pretty glowing man for seven seconds while reinforcements could come.

Bloom is not a visual representation of spread, nor has it been in any other Halo game. Halo 2 didn’t appear to have spread and Halo CE spread didn’t make the pistol inaccurate.

The problem with armor abilities, it’s not that who can spawn with them. They destroy important gameplay concepts. Jetpack… There goes the concept of map control. Sprint/Evade… Let’s make CQC weapons more effective to destroy part of ranged combat. Armor Lock… There goes the concept of outplaying your opponents. You see the point I’m making? Armor abilities destroy important gameplay concepts, concepts that add skill.

To Armor Lock, why in the name of god would I deserve to be killed by an Armor Lock user when I have no chance of knowing they have the ability while ending up into a CQC situation? Why in the name of god should the player have an advantage over me with few, simple button presses that require little to no skill? Besides, that’s not the only problem of Armor Lock, it slows down gameplay and gives the player a second chance, a chance they don’t deserve because they got outplayed.

> > Someone pleas explain to me how a less skilled player can beat a more skilled player, and why this should be possible.
>
> They can’t. It’s just that this game is more complex than SHOOT IT UNTIL IT DIES RAAWWWRRRRGGHHH like the past games, maybe they realize it, maybe you don’t.

Just as a side question: What if it doesn’t die because it spams while I pace my shots? Is that still my fault? Am I doing something wrong? Might the last two questions have been rhetorical?

> > I think that they should implement a weapon in Halo 4 such as the Halo Combat Evolved Magnum or the Battle Rifle… don’t start flaming now m’kay? I think that they should because with these weapons the better player almost always beat the worse player from Close Quarter Combat to Medium Range Combat to Long Range Combat. I rarely found myself killing more skilled players with a Battle Rifle because those were the players that used tactics, strafed and had a very good aim. why should those players be punished by getting beaten by worse players in a one on one battle? It just doesn’t sound right to me. sure, rarely a less skilled player killed the more skilled player because they choked or just missed a shot… but this is what it should be like, a player should be punished for their own faults instead of a weapon that just doesn’t work well such as the Designated Marksman Rifle(DMR for short).
>
> Oh yeah, lets get a weapon that kills anyone in 3 shots and goes as far as 122.7 meters, only weapon anyone will ever use. Ever. Barring extremely large maps. Or hey, it’s lesser brother the BR that kills in four bursts that still toppled any weapon if it had hitscan in skilled hands. Can’t be bothered to use any other weapons.

Exactly, DMR can lose even in skilled hands. Why not have a weapon that when enough skil, beats other weapons? Why not have a weapon that actually requires skill? Why not have a weapon that has fast kill times to speed up gameplay? What exactly is wrong with having actually balanced weapons? Why should I be bothered to use weapons that are made redudant at purpose?

You see, it’s not that the weapon I’m using is too powerful, it’s that the sandbox around that weapon is underpowered and require little to no skill.

> I agree that there are overpowered less-skilled weapons that are easy to use. Take the Concussion Rifle and the Needler for example. Those two weapons should not do the damage they do. They should at least have a slower fire rate, because they are just point and shoot weapons that don’t require any precise aim.

Actually, I find the Needler useless in Reach because its an “explodey” Assault Rifle. But in CE it was the only weapon with a considerable aim assist (and I loved it) along with high tracking, but the needles moved slow. Perhaps this is how the Needler should be again?

@tssasi

How exactly did you test? You shooting a dummy guest standing still? It never works that way in MM. Why I can win while pacing at 10+ meters is because I strafe, jump, gandhi jump, crouch, the works. The enemy can’t keep their reticule on me, while I can.

Halo 2, no spread? What? Pre TU BR, spreeeeaaaadddd. SMG, spread, other weapons, let’s see…spread! And the Halo CE pistol was much too inaccurate for TSKing at any range but close if you went automatic with it. Most people go semi auto which is why they don’t see the spread that would be there.

AAs are fine. Sprint+Sword? Sword block! Sprint+Shotgun, well you talked about map control, why does your ENEMY have a power weapon? Evade? It’s like an uber strafe with a con, you can’t shoot. It’s hardly in loadouts anyway. I already gave my point on Armor Lock. Jetpack? Yeah, loud flying guy brightly colored isn’t noticeable, we can’t team shoot and kill him in two seconds.

You can know if someone has AL through deductive reasoning. Not using sprint? Not using jetpack? Camo? Hologram? Furthermore if you can remember what color goes with what AA on their back, you know what AA they have. With knowledge you could use, they win against you in armor lock, YOU got outplayed.

In response to side question: It’ll die if you know how to play the game. If you die, your fault. The thing you may be doing wrong is pacing too slow, spamming too much close range, not using deductive reasoning and eyesight to know what AA one has, not controlling the map, not working with your team, etc. I don’t care if those questions were rhetorical, I’ll answer every one you have.

DMR will not lose in skilled hands. An end all weapon isn’t the way to go in multiplayer games. Not insanely fast kill times on any weapon so each weapon has it’s niche. Weapons are balanced in this game, nothing wrong with it. You shouldn’t be bothered to use redundant weapons.

All the weapons in the sandbox take skill. Tell me, what takes more skill, a 3X scoped weapon that kills in five shots that in skilled hands is a death star, or…an insane spread weapon with no scope, and takes 18 bullets to kill with a 32 bullet clip?

> Exactly, DMR can lose even in skilled hands.

And even very skilled SF, DOA and Tekken players can be beat by the right character and button-mashing. What makes the great players are the ones who don’t forget that if even a nOOb can do it, it can be used by anyone at the most inoppourtune moments and so always keep it in the head.
Scrubbing the situation doesn’t solve it.

The less skilled player loses every time, Fact.

> if armor lock is in there then it makes sence. but if its not its hard to say whos more skilled.
> concusion rifles are like brute shots firing the same damage and rate so it makes sence if you are bad at fighting one.
> Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a even game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players are more challenged and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.

thats not fair at all, if you actually learn to get more skilled you deserve to earn that kill

> > if armor lock is in there then it makes sence. but if its not its hard to say whos more skilled.
> > concusion rifles are like brute shots firing the same damage and rate so it makes sence if you are bad at fighting one.
> > Players who arnt skilled kill the skilled because they are at a even game in reach. and to me thats fair. While I do hate when Newbs kill me I think its just fair. This way skilled players are more challenged and non skilled can hope to actualy be able to fight back.
>
> thats not fair at all, if you actually learn to get more skilled you deserve to earn that kill

Then the kill would have been yours. You’ve got to work it harder or longer in Reach. Halo isn’t instant gratification gameplay right?
Here’s an article about Ryu from that website some people dislike me referencing. It’s a great story in how I feel most DMR/bloom dislikers are most polar opposite to. It’s not an insult story or anything, it is a reflection of perfecting balance philosophies. And it involves accepting a move that makes one vulnerable, not more powerful.

I agree with the OP, but I feel the dissatisfaction may be just slightly misguided, at least in my opinion.

First of all I’ll get this out of the way: I 100% agree with everything said about Armor Abilities. Things like Armor Lock should have been Campain/Fire Fight only and have no place in Multi Player.

As for the weapons issue yes there is concern but for different reasons.

  • DMR Battles - Unfortunately skill has little to do with these (which may be even more of a problem). There really is no way of telling if a player of lesser skill is able to kill you because of the way the DMR functions. Two players with great aim can have drastically different results because of bloom and how broken it is. You should still be able to win against scrubs, it’s when you are equally matched and there’s too much “luck” going on that it sucks.

  • Power weapons - I’m not sure I totally agree here but that’s just me. The Concussion Rifle only really works for “noobs” when they are right in your face at which point if they had the classic Rocket Launcher you’d get the same results. Halo has had “power weapons” that level the playing field to some degree since the beginning of Halo’s existence. It’s one of the few cases where the unpredictability it brings is appropriate in my book.