I’ve wanted to make this post for quite awhile, however not too long ago 343i you wrote something along the lines of “Controller players complain that Mouse and Keyboard players have the advantage, Mouse and Keyboard complain that Controller players have the advantage. There is No Simple Solution to this”
Apologies if I’ve got this wrong, however why don’t you simply Give Players The Option To Turn Off Crossplay?
It seems like a very simple solution since you have done it in Halo MCC, however if you need another solution just do what Overwatch does. Make it so Console players don’t match against PC players unless they have a PC player in their lobby.
Some would say that would be avoiding the problem and I’d inclinded to agree, but that’s only if this is being used as a permanent solution. As a bandaid, it’ll work great.
While I don’t believe that this is a bad solution, it hardly changes thd difference between the two inputs. That’s what people are focused on.
I think the problem you’re illuding to is one input being better than the other and trying to find a fair common ground, right?
The reason that solution is difficult to find is because there is no solution. Comparing a Controller to M&K is like comparing apples to oranges. One allows you to aim with your thumb on a 3D surface, the other allows you to aim with your entire hand on a 2D surface. They’re almost incomparable, so finding the middle ground isn’t possible.
Best solution is to have Controller Pools and M&K Pools, then give players the option to go into a mixed que if they have a mixed lobby, like Overwatch does.
It might not solve the insolvable problem of Controller vs M&K, however it will limit the problem to about 2% of the games population rather than 100% of them.
I woulda thought sbmm was the solution. A G3 is a G3 regardless of inputs.
Exactly. The problem itself is insolvable. At least from where I’m standing.
But I do acknowledge concerns from the other side of the argument. We’ll just have to wait and see.
343 is working on solutions according to their Season 1 outcomes blog.
Skill Based Match Making is awful in Halo Infinite
It’s the main reason I can’t play with my friends. I’m probably around Onyx level if I go off how good I was in Halo 5, but my friends are likely around Gold level.
We had no problems in Halo Reach BTB, even if I out performed them in almost every match, however in Infinite they get matched against opponents who are too much for them because of my skill rating.
SBMM is a nice concept, however it simply does not work if fun is your goal.
343 isnt about fun, they are about sweaty gameplay and microtransactions.
@Lanky_B_YT A contoller could still plug in a K&M or vice versa. So they’d need to come with some way to lock inputs. Dunno how doable that is since I know nothing about programming
This debate rarely happens on destiny 2 (except for a few weapons benefiting off controller) its all about 343i wanting to get the to feel closer together… Halo’s damage model is also to blame - controller is better, its tracked and has been shown to hold higher KDA across the board, it literally stick to the enemies head and you dont have to constantly track a head like on mouse. thats it and thats all. give mouse a little stickyness and call it a day - pull it all inline and show the data, then nothing to complain about
the idea to make crossplay becoming a option is a good start if you talk about the platform way more in the controler vs M&K discusion.
but why not add also a crossplay input option also.
that you can choose if you wane play with controler players only or K&M only or wane play against both?
then you fix the problem also for the pc side more with this discusion about the controler vs M&K crap.
since on the xbox concole not a lot players are using the K&M at all on the console and all use more the controler is it not a big off a deal then for the console site.
I dont think anyone was demanding a full solution. As many have already stated, achieving parity between the two would be nigh on impossible.
We do want it to be closer though. That’s all. Give us a fighting chance!
We don’t want to be stuck playing with the remaining 75 mnk players. We want to be able to play with our buddies and not be at a huge disadvantage.
Surely there can be no argument against that?
Honestly wouldn’t bother me if a PC player was using controller. It’s a fair match that way
I did think about mentioning user based input in my original post, however I thought it may confuse some readers.
In an ideal world, there’d be a controller pool, a mouse and keyboard pool, and a mixed pool (only accessed if you have a controller user and a mouse user in the same lobby.
On MCC, they had the option to have input based matchmaking, which I enjoyed using.
Well no, you still have Console vs PC, it’s just whether you want it KBM flavor or Controller flavor on your console of choice.
Conflating input choice with console choice doesn’t do much for the argument. Do you want crossplatform segregation, cross input segregation or both?
the idea to have input settings to choose if you wane play only with controlers or K&M or with both is been suggest on a lot off threads with the controler vs K&M discusion.
sure you need also have the option between PC and console platform if you wane play only with Console or PC players or with both.
and chance things in the settings between K&M and controler is never going to fix the problem at all what 343i is think going to do.
since if you chance 1 little bit with it now you make it a bigger mess in the end with it.
then the hate against crossplay become’s only bigger and then the player base is only becoming more worse then its now and yea it can become worser.
I play both controller, and mouse and keyboard in ranked–though I am more comfortable with mouse. I would also rather not have dedicated playlists form the full solution.
For the mouse player, Halo Infinite does a few tricky things:
- rapid, abrupt changes in direction are not a normal tracking exercise for most mouse users
- playing with timing on when weapons fire
I think these are part of the challenge of the game, and are definitely fair. The game should not be changed in this regard.
I also think the game would be close to balanced in cross play, but it is currently slightly biased towards controller.
In my opinion, there are two things that bias the game towards controller players:
- the ability to do incremental speed strafes with a joystick (very hard to reproduce on keyboard)
- the area in which aim assist triggers on controllers is slightly too large
The “dance” is a key portion of 1-on-1s in Halo Infinite, and it is key for throwing an enemy’s aim off of your Spartan.
I created 419561 which described an isolated scenario that I think 343 needs to study to strike a good balance in the game.
- Firstly, trying to stay on target using movement only is easier on controller (ignoring left-stick aim assist)
- Secondly, when aiming, there is only a certain time period in which you can fire to hit an enemy. My personal feeling is that the time given to controller players is slightly too high
Halo support closed my ticket saying I should post elsewhere, so here I am!
The scenario described in the ticket demonstrates point 2. But for the forum, the best way to illustrate point 2is through the following Shyway video “Is the Mangler nerf BAD for Halo?”
If you were to take Cerridius, or any other highly skilled mouser, they would never be able to casually snipe in the way Shyway does because of the slight delay on the sniper fire. Shyway on controller has relatively more leeway in when he can pull the trigger to get some of these shots.
A small tweak to aim assist tracking area should go a long way towards making the keyboard and mouse discussion disappear.
Many apologies for the lack of a response, I’ve commented on a ton of posts and often forget to revisit my existing ones.
So you brought up a few things which I think need attention.
- You claimed that aim assist on controller is slightly too large.
I’m unsure if this is just a bug I’m having, however if my friends claims are to be believed (and they’re not just being salty), on Xbox we have very minimal aim assist. By that, I mean certain weapons like the Commando simply feel like there are no aim assist, and even when using weapons like the BR (which many Twitch streamers have shown clips of their reticle tracking enemies even when they’re not touching the controller) cannot replicate these clips.
I highly believe that Xbox does not have the same benefits as PC Controller. Could be wrong, could be desync issues, could be a bug effecting me and my friends. Regardless, when compared to every previous Halo game, we barely have aim assist and tracking opponents isn’t as natural.
- Togglable user based input.
This would not require different playlists on the main menu. If you wish to see a working model of this, look at Halo MCC.
Halo MCC added user based input and console based input. It would be a simple toggle in the settings and then boom, problem solved. If you dislike controller vs mouse or mouse vs controller, you don’t have to worry about it.
Overwatch also did something interesting where if you had a controller, you were automatically pitted against controller players. It wasn’t until you had a user in your lobby using a mouse would it switch you to mixed lobbies.
At the end of the day, regardless of if you believe controller or mouse has the advantage, there shouldn’t be an advantage. Give players the option to toggle it off. A reason why most my friends left this game was due to the insistence on forced crossplay. Halo Infinite will continue to die until it’s turned off.
After reading alot of comments its clear to see that pc players expect some sort of mega perfect programming can fix this and put everyone on an even playing field. It cant. Controller and mouse+ keyboard are 2 different beasts. They can dumb down aim assist on xbox controller players like they already have and it still wont be fair. Mouse has the advantage over headshots and vehicle control and console controller has an advantage on general hits. If you dont like it, just toggle it off. Works in MCC no reason it cant here
I believe that the game should have the following selection points: 1. Crossplatform (Only with Xbox, Only PC, All platforms) 2. Controls (Only gamepad, Only keyboard and mouse, Any control). If this were implemented, I would turn off the PC forever. That’s what 98% of console players would do.
Yeah, we would. I don’t think 343i want to implement that though, because if they did then the servers would likely be split and people wouldn’t be able to find a game.
Ironically, it’s because they didn’t have this feature in the game from the start that there’s so few people playing now.