They wanted to bring in the pistol from Halo 5 probably but didn’t want another Halo game dominated by Pistol meta, so they made the AR way better and have it as the main weapon for Infinite and SK as the cleanup tool.
The fire rate of that thing makes sense: it’s designed for you to spam on an enemy with low or no shields to headshot and kill.
But what they also did was give it a juicy 12 round mag with decent damage, which essentially just made it a close-mid Reach DMR.
If SK needs a nerf, just nerf its ammo from 12 to 8 per mag. You will not see as many people running around “auto-SK” anymore because before they can clean up the kill, they will be forced to reload.
The CE Magnum exists in Infinite in some form as the Mangler, but Mangler is just another hot mess. For one, the reticule makes 0 sense for a weapon with projectile arcing.
Well, aren’t they already forced to reload after a kill? How is the sidekick even a problem with all the tools available?
Look at the stalker. It’s time to kill is even shorter than the sidekick’s. Even better if you have the heatwave or the bulldog as all you’ll have to do is fire one shot off and smack them in the face.
If you got a BR as a primary, pick up the AR/Bulldog/Heatwave as a secondary. Or don’t let them get too close. There’s plenty of solutions.
You’re not understanding what I’m saying and homing in on specific points.
What I’m saying is this:
SK is probably designed as a clean up weapon, the way it performs checks out
SK in practice isn’t a clean up weapon, it’s entirely self contained like a pocket Reach DMR thanks to its magazine size allowing it to break shields AND clean up on the same weapon in a single reload.
This makes SK a pretty powerful starter weapon considering its TTK and ease of access
Why you bringing in other weapons in a discussion about the SK. We’re not talking right now about how the SK is within the sandbox against other people who has scavenged a weapon. We’re talking about SK as a starter weapon and its power level as a starter weapon. The fact an “Auto SK” user can face any of these weapons and beat it in close - mid shouldn’t really be a thing, but it is happening. That’s the entire point of this thread.
I fully understood what you were saying. I’m just generally disagreeing that the sidekick is a pocket DMR and in need of a nerf.
I brought up other weapons as I felt it strengthened my point. It’s power as a starter seems to be something players aren’t used to, but I fully believe isn’t overreaching in other areas. It does well in close quarters and not so well at midrange.
Disagree, it seems to be doing pretty darn well in midranged, which is why I understand the OP’s lamentations regarding the weapon.
Just check out all the top Infinite players when they scavenge. The last thing they ever swap out is the SK, and for very good reason.
Close to Mid its a beast if you have really good aim. Its also spammy in nature with the bloom so all you gotta do is really center mass and blast away while the recoil works itself to the head area where to clean up with a headshot.
I’m not saying it definitely needs a nerf but saying it’s not powerful is just untrue, it’s pretty powerful. And if did need a nerf to bring it down in effectiveness, im all for it.
Regardless if we’re talking about SK’s design, it’s not meant to be a skill weapon at all. The fire rate and the spammy nature of it is just the opposite of skill. The fact players are good with it doesn’t change the anti skill nature of it, if not why would people be so upset with it existing in SWAT?
If it’s a spammy gun + it’s low skill + it does better than a bunch of non starter weapons then that all points to it’s kinda overperforming in the sandbox.
Either things need buffs or SK needs nerfs. And my stance is if it needs a nerf, it needs a Magazine size nerf. That’s all I’m saying. You can probably Perfect with headshot in 8 shots, but not having 12 means it leaves no margin for error if you decide to use it as your main weapon.
Everyone was complaining about how low the aim-assist and bullet magnetism was on the SK. Including myself.
It’s aim assist still hasn’t changed. It’s still requires a ton of practice beforehand to use effectively. SWAT has no shields so it’s not fair to judge the SK in an environment where getting kills takes half the effort it normally does.
I agree with @Sodium_Bath that the SK is a clean up weapon. It’s got all the traits:
Fist Fire Rate
Quick Swap
Headshot Multiplier
Bloom (depending how you look at that)
Fast Melee (pistol-type perk)
However I disagree about the SK breaking shields and finishing off a kill. Every gun should be able to kill on a single magazine. However, the ease of that is the difference. Right now the AR and BR are pretty efficient weapons, but SK doesn’t have to be the same.
Right now the SK has a 7-shot perfect kill and a 10-shot body kill. If you drop the mag size to 8, you can still get that perfect kill, but your margin of error decreases from 5 rounds to 1. And a body kill is simply impossible without needing to reload. So using the SK to spam weakened headshot would be more common than just maining the gun the way some players do right now.
BAM! There we go!
Changing the SK to behave this way gives room or the commando to be more of a “heavy sidekick” with a larger mag and better range. And if you want a ranged/headshot gun with more reliability, seek out a BR.
why does everything need to be nerfed or removed? first mangler, now sidekick? and people complaining about nades as well. what’s the point of a sandbox if every time a few people get lasered by a particular weapon we just get rid of it? i like my variety
I hear you! I didnt even have to read your post my man. Needs to have its range and accuracy nerfed to keep it as a close quarters weapon. Its not necessary for this “sidearm” to be out gunning a BR, AR or Commando, or any Covenant weapon that has a midrange out reach. Its everybody’s go to strat and im sick of seeing it. I got you!
Its because all of those things are counter productive to the game and it doesnt belong. Halo as a series has always had logistics to it that make sense. A sidearm out gunning primaries, doesnt make sense, granades that follow you and track you till they are physically next to you, doesnt make sense. I agree with the mangler, it should of never been touched. It was one of the few weapons that had a fair response and counter to some guns in the sandbox. BUT, now that that has changed, others must follow suit. For example the sidekick is now op and its hard to counter without exploiting the situation with other tools like nades or equipment. Making it unreasonable.
@Toxinuous@TheDevilsNote75@l_HyperLethal_l@Windjammer19@M1STA_WU1FY@TDEconglomerate
This is a big part of why I created the thread. However, I honestly don’t even really want it nerfed. I think it functioned fine (despite all criticisms) before they nerfed melee and the Mangler 1 tap + 1 slap / BR 2 tap + 1 slap functionality. Because bleed-through melees now take longer for most other weapons in the sandbox, the changes made resulted in the unintended side effect of increasing the viability of the sidekick above most other weapons -due to a lack of something else to keep it in check. It’s even more compounded due to the increased frequency of ‘unearned’ trades + existing d-sync. Ultimately, I’m really hoping they reverse these changes.@ske7ch
I think about it like this, the sidekick hasn’t gotten any better since launch and people haven’t just suddenly realized that it’s very functional. Yet, it feels like a new issue of it being kinda OP because of other balancing changes they made to the sandbox. Now, there is very little to keep the sidekick in check and people can feel this in matches which is why - post-update - most playstyles have changed to be more aggressive. It’s especially felt by people on the receiving end who aren’t as good with the sidekick (most of the more casual community). On the Social side, I actually thought the balancing was near perfect in the early flights minus the melee button combo, I still miss how far bodies would fly when being melee’d in the first flight.
I even had to convert to using it more frequently and during that period of time it almost felt like SBMM had a grudge out against me or something. I literally kept thinking to myself, “why do I suddenly suck?” turns out, I’m roughly the same skill as before it’s just that now, my lack of proficiency with the sidekick leads to me dying much more often in matches.
-Side note: I have improved with it, but these changes still hurt the rest of the existing sandbox, to the point where now I feel forced to use the sidekick as a main weapon. Even the heatwave and bulldog or gravity hammer and sword, now feel more like a gamble to pickup without equipment, a starter cleanup weapon - literally named “Sidekick”- shouldn’t overpower those rack weapons (including the Mangler, Plasma pistol -at least for shields-, Hydra, Ravager, Commando & BR in close-mid range).
Bottom line is, much of the weapon sandbox balancing needs work. That’s why -as seen- one or two little changes can have significant ripple effects on everything else, even down to how each match flows, people play and rotate around the map.
The sidekick isn’t the kind of pistol this game needed. I wouldn’t mind a fast shooting sidearm as much if it didn’t overwhelm so many other things by spamming it. It just feels gross and I don’t know how to explain why any better.
The reason the CE and H5 magnums felt right was that they had a controlled rate of fire and required precision. The sidekick feels like a more spammy Reach magnum.
SK is NOT a cleanup weapon. As I posted above, it is an alternative for skilled players to use in AR starts. The skill gap on the AR is very small, and far more RNG based. While it is relatively high on the Sidekick, and once you learn the mechanics it’s nowhere near as RNG dependent unless you are using it at longer ranges than it’s intended. So by design, it’s meant to outperform the AR for players confident enough to use it, because unlike the AR it does create a notable skill gap.