I agree with you generally that the pistol is too good as a starter. I wouldnt call it OP but it’s way too quick ttk to spawn with. I disagree this is a result of the melee changes- it’s always been this way imo.
Pistol has one of the fastest ttk, arguably the most versatile 4v4 weapon, and the bloom factored with the fire rate make it inconsistent and not feel great to 1v1 with imo.
BR starts are far better in infinites sandbox. BR loses to many weapons now, AR, pistol, commando, stalker rifle, etc especially after the melee nerf they got. Given the map layouts aside from maybe 2 maps the pistol can adequately cover all necessary ranges and AR is pretty close to doing the same. The power of the AR and pistol make most map pickups redundant like now the mangler, the bulldog/scattershot, etc
Most games with pistol starts you see ‘power weapons’ walked by and sitting on racks all game. With BR starts those weapons are actually viable. Imo the solution is to go to BR starts and remove the AR/pistol starts but include them as frequent map pickups.
I also dislike the pistol as a starter because the crazy bloom and ttk can make 1v1s with both players using the pistol seem very inconsistent.
@l_HyperLethal_l
Think the argument should be about the SK having a faster TTK than the Commando. The BR has crazy range so a slower TTK is fine since ideally, it can start firing earlier (and it’s easier to use IMO). However, the commando is basically a 1:1 comparison to the SK and it’s worse in almost every way while also having comparatively limited ammo (wall racks/people don’t spawn with it).
I kind of wish the starting pistol was something akin to the Reach/4/5 Magnum. Basically a mini-DMR. That way you could very obviously trade up to the more reliable BR. However, the sidekick might be better as a map pick up. Shorter ranged, but a fast fire rate. H5 did this with the Gunfighter Magnum in a few cases, and I think it worked fine there.
With how the sidekick operates it fills the role meant for the commando. And the commando fills the role of the sidekick.
The sidekick is accurate and spammy, so spammy that is is easy to cheat with if you have a rapid fire controller. Next to no recoil or bloom so it is always super accurate. The Spam needs to be limited and the bloom/recoil needs to be more prominent.
Meanwhile the commando has horrendous bloom even without full-auto. And the damage is too low, on top of shot inconsistency, but it is meant to be a precision weapon.
Literally swap their firing systems and fix the consistency and the problem is solved.
The Sidekick is more or less Reach DMR’s little brother in Infinite.
It’s a low skill, spam machine, more or less designed to clean up kills than actually fight with it.
My ONLY and valid issue with SK isn’t really revolving specifically around SK but in Kinetics in general. Tier 1 Kinetics like AR and SK really have no business strpping shields faster than the Plasma Pistol’s tap fire. There really isn’t a case in previous Halos where a PP couldn’t out-strp shields compared to its own game’s Magnums or AR counterpart, barring ofc the infamous CE Magnum.
PP needs shot buffs against shields for sure, but SK and AR, SK in particular, have no business popping faster than a PP can. SK needs a slight TTK increase against full shield full opponents, like 1 shot more to break. PP needs to be back to 4 shots break.
The sidekicks bloom makes any conversation about balancing it meaningless imo. At the end of the day, outcomes of any Sidekick fight are heavily influenced by RNG. And you’re not going to be able to agree on how to balance it, because its performance is random.
I see where you’re coming from. I’ve definitely noticed myself winning more fights with the SK up close vs opponents with range weapons more. whereas before it usually ended up in trades pre melee nerf. More than likely because of the spam-fire/melee combo.
That said, we should really be going after the melee nerf instead of the SK. The thing only has 5 grace shots, pair that with the fast RoF, bloom, and strafing opponents, it tends to level out with the other weapons that have been mentioned, when melee isn’t involved.
On another note, the Commando is long past a buff. I really wish we could get something like a PTS to try nerfs/buffs out before they go live. I would like to see how the Commando would perform with greatly reduced bloom and higher recoil.
Thank you for saying. A side arm shouldn’t be the end all be all. I have said it other related post and I will say it again the Halo 3 magnum was the perfect balance and had it’s role perfectly suited for the sandbox.
It might not honestly. What does it do that warrants it a spot in the sandbox? Even the Plasma Rifle was at least a different damage type than the AR. The Commando’s ability to be a full auto precision gun is new (sorta) but the high bloom and recoil make that worthless. Ask any self-proclaimed commando expert and they’ll tell you to burst or tap fire it.
H5 had a Carbine Variant that was full auto with much less bloom and recoil. Maybe the Commando could be like that, but 343 would have to make it more a tier-2 probably.
As an adamant DMR fan (and other DMR fans likely won’t agree), I don’t give a flying HOOT if the DMR returns in Halo Infinite. Yeah, it has slightly different stats and is single fire, but it’s just a BR reskin. There’s much more interesting and necessary guns left out that Halo needs sooner. Like the Grenade Launcher.
A lot of what you said I think stems back to Infinite’s low TTK’s across the board. Stuff like the AR and SK kill so fast that there’s barely room for shield drainers to do their job and still have enough time to swap to a headshot/kinetic weapon.
What I liked about the H3 Magnum was that it couldn’t zoom. It was a bona fide short range precision gun. Basically its role was to beat out AR users and have a chance to beat BR users, but it was undoubtably “worse” than the BR/Carbine, so trading up to it was a no-brainer.
sidekick is much worse than the battle rifle. Currently sidekick requires more skill than the br as the aim assist on the br is just insane and it’s level of consistency is through the roof. Also if they were to let those long range weapons dominate the sidekick range who would ever use the sidekick? Sidekick is much harder and much more inconsistent than the br. I ll say that commando is the most inconsistent out of all the guns and it feels like the bloom should be reduced and it also needs more ammo per mag. If one weapon needs a nerf its the assault rifle not the sidekick.
What I keep coming back to on the Sidekick is that it isn’t an exclusive resource (power weapon). It’s very reliable and has a quick TTK at close to mid range, true. A lot of times it does feel preferable to the AR (not all the time, IMO, as Infinite’s AR is also very buff in comparison to prior iterations), but speaking only for myself, I’d rather have a Mangler, Commando, BR, etc (any Semi-Auto precision weapon) for my secondary and I always take the opportunity to swap the Sidekick when I come across one of these.
I’m not sure if that’s truly because every one of these is a “superior” weapon under ideal circumstances - I know the TTK on the Sidekick is crazy with a Perfect, but most of these other weapons feel a lot easier to achieve kills with at mid-long range. If nothing else, they are different than the Sidekick, which everyone else has.
And since everyone has the Sidekick at spawn, it’s being a powerful option doesn’t really advantage/disadvantage any player on the basis of anything except skill. Between that and the AR also being the best AR in the series since CE’s (IMHO), Infinite just gives very reliably powerful starts. It’s a different design than a lot of Halo games used, but I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with it. CE gave us all the 60 round AR shredder and the legendary M6-D and most of us had the time of our lives playing that game.
I see what you’re saying, and your ideas make sense. However, my main issue is, why is the sidekicks main purpose to excel at short range in the first place? Clearly that is 343’s philosophy, but I disagree with the idea that there should be a different perfect weapon for each small range subset.
To me, if the sidekick is really a ‘sidearm’, then it shouldn’t really ‘excel’ at anything. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be useful, because I think it should be. But it shouldn’t be able to outgun something I have to go find off a wall imo.
I think Bungie made a mistake with the H3 magnum by removing scope (it has other issues too though lol), but I think the ODST mag was what we should’ve had instead of the sidekick. Or maybe the Reach Magnum. It would still be useful in AR starts, as it is better at range than the AR, but also useful for a headshot finisher if you replace your AR with a plasma weapon or a power weapon (1 sniper shot or rocket splash damage). But it would always lose to a BR in an equal setting if both people were perfect with their shots.
I mean, it’s relative. The only thing the PP really needs to do is strip shields faster than kinetic weapons. If 6 shots is faster than what the AR or magnum can do, then I don’t see a problem with that. The problem, like you said, is that it isn’t doing it faster.
