The Sandbox is being fixed, now for movement!

Games Other Halo
#1

As we all know 343 have addressed the community’s complaints in regards to the games sandbox, more specifically weapon powers.

As this problem is being solved it is time to look on to the next big issue in core gameplay, movement.

In older installments of Halo the art of strafing added a considerable skill gap to the game. Strafing is in simple moving side to side out of the path of your opponents bullets.

Here are a couple of examples of strafing.

Some awesome person threw together a comparison video

Without a doubt the ability to strafe has lessened game after game, removing a simple, easily learn able skill gap to the game.

If 343 can recreate the strafe mechanic from an older Halo game it will massively benefit the competitive community, in addition it will be such a small change that it will not bend or ruin the game for the less competitive players.

Final Notes:

  • Crouching due to bullet magnetism is completely useless in Halo 4, it worked wll in Halo: Reach but now using crouch to throw off opponents shots does not work.
  • The Gandhi Hop… Same as the above, completely ineffective, however it does add an intimidation factor that can cause people to throw off shots.
#2

I may not be that much of competetive player, (I’m really that good either :frowning: ), but I completely agree with increasing the strafe movement. Compared to the other Halo games, you move like a tortoise! And put that with the bullet magnetism we have at the moment… ouch!

Increase the strafe movement people! :slight_smile:

Random note: You can easily tell the strafe movement has been slowed down when you go on campaign on legendary. In previous Halo games, when an enemy shot a needler at you, you could dodge most of it if you reacted and moved quick enough.

On Halo 4 however, if an enemy shot a needler at you, you’ve pratically got no chance of dodging!

#3

> On Halo 4 however, if an enemy shot a needler at you, you’ve pratically got no chance of dodging!

My own experiences suggest the opposite, but I will agree that movement acceleration could be faster.

#4

> > On Halo 4 however, if an enemy shot a needler at you, you’ve pratically got no chance of dodging!
>
> My own experiences suggest the opposite, but I will agree that movement acceleration could be faster.

Really? Well, thats just proves what I said. I’m not really good. :frowning:

#5

> > > On Halo 4 however, if an enemy shot a needler at you, you’ve pratically got no chance of dodging!
> >
> > My own experiences suggest the opposite, but I will agree that movement acceleration could be faster.
>
> Really? Well, thats just proves what I said. I’m not really good. :frowning:

I am good, and I can’t dodge a needler in Halo 4. It’s not only the acceleration that makes it so hard to avoid the needles, but it also sticks and kills faster than in the previous games.

#6

> I may not be that much of competetive player, (I’m really that good either :frowning: ), but I completely agree with increasing the strafe movement. Compared to the other Halo games, you move like a tortoise! And put that with the bullet magnetism we have at the moment… ouch!
>
> Increase the strafe movement people! :slight_smile:
>
> Random note: You can easily tell the strafe movement has been slowed down when you go on campaign on legendary. In previous Halo games, when an enemy shot a needler at you, you could dodge most of it if you reacted and moved quick enough.
>
> On Halo 4 however, if an enemy shot a needler at you, you’ve pratically got no chance of dodging!

Nah, it’s actually an issue with the weapon itself. In CE, that thing was really impractical unless you were holding down the trigger. On the bright side, it’s slow projectile speed could be dodged compared to H2 (terrifying hitbox), H3 (half-hearted restoration), and H4 (it’s now a Noobler!). Probably the best version of the Needler due to how it could invoke terror in even Elites and you could have multiple supercombines!

Also, don’t forget how we could strafe Banshee fire. Yet again, it’s actually an issue with the Banshee. In CE, it was inaccurate and the AI were also inaccurate. In H4, the plasma cannon proj is blazing fast and tears a man (Spartan) to shreds!

#7

I disagree with increasing the movement speed as I believe bullet magnetism and hitscan weapons do a whole lot more damage to the Multiplayer than the movement speed.

Fix magnetism/so on first, because it’s pathetically high, then the changes to movement speed won’t have to be so drastic.

#8

I’m not sure but I think H3 and 4 have the same movement speed. There is a video on YT posted by someone on this forum that proves it. With that said H3 is slower than H2. IMO H2 had it right with fast movement, fast kill times. HCE was the fastest but I didnt play much MP on CE unless it was 1v1 with cousins.

H4’s bullet magnetism has a lot to do with why strafing is somewhat ineffective. You can still pull it off in certain situations.

#9

> I’m not sure but I think H3 and 4 have the same movement speed. There is a video on YT posted by someone on this forum that proves it. With that said H3 is slower than H2. IMO H2 had it right with fast movement, fast kill times. HCE was the fastest but I didnt play much MP on CE unless it was 1v1 with cousins.
>
> H4’s bullet magnetism has a lot to do with why strafing is somewhat ineffective. You can still pull it off in certain situations.

Halo 4 probably has some weird FOV thus making it easier to shoot people regardless of speed.

Even though the speed is the same, if it looks and feels slower, it’s easier to hit people.

#10

> I may not be that much of competetive player, (I’m really that good either :frowning: ), but I completely agree with increasing the strafe movement. Compared to the other Halo games, you move like a tortoise! And put that with the bullet magnetism we have at the moment… ouch!

In contrary to popular belief, that might not be so. First of all, I need to put a caveat here that all the movement data I know of concerns Haloes CE, 2, 3, and Reach. As far as I know, no proper quantitative analysis have been made on movement or aim mechanics or field of view of Halo 4.

That said, as far as those four Halo games I do have data of go, it’s commonly believed that Halo CE had the fastest movement speed, and from there on it gradually decreased. This, however, is not the case. For which reason it has been suggested that despite movement speed staying relatively constant (aside from the marginally lower pace of Reach), the acceleration of movement has changed. But, again, that’s not the case.

Of course this doesn’t mean that 343i couldn’t have changed the practices when it comes to movement in Halo. However, the evidence shows that we’ve been wrong before, and that the movement mechanics of Halo are extremely complex and difficult to understand. So, while 343i is not Bungie, I wouldn’t say they have necessarily changed anything about the movement.

That said, anyone can tell the movement in Halo 4 doesn’t feel optimal, it feels worse than before. Potential reasons (I’d go as far as say the most probable reasons) for that are field of view and, most importantly, the aiming mechanics. But alas, until someone makes proper, quantitative analysis on the mechanics of Halo 4, we can’t really know.

#11

> > I may not be that much of competetive player, (I’m really that good either :frowning: ), but I completely agree with increasing the strafe movement. Compared to the other Halo games, you move like a tortoise! And put that with the bullet magnetism we have at the moment… ouch!
>
> In contrary to popular belief, that might not be so. First of all, I need to put a caveat here that all the movement data I know of concerns Haloes CE, 2, 3, and Reach. As far as I know, no proper quantitative analysis have been made on movement or aim mechanics or field of view of Halo 4.
>
> That said, as far as those four Halo games I do have data of go, it’s commonly believed that Halo CE had the fastest movement speed, and from there on it gradually decreased. This, however, is not the case. For which reason it has been suggested that despite movement speed staying relatively constant (aside from the marginally lower pace of Reach), the acceleration of movement has changed. But, again, that’s not the case.
>
> Of course this doesn’t mean that 343i couldn’t have changed the practices when it comes to movement in Halo. However, the evidence shows that we’ve been wrong before, and that the movement mechanics of Halo are extremely complex and difficult to understand. So, while 343i is not Bungie, I wouldn’t say they have necessarily changed anything about the movement.
>
> That said, anyone can tell the movement in Halo 4 doesn’t feel optimal, it feels worse than before. Potential reasons (I’d go as far as say the most probable reasons) for that are field of view and, most importantly, the aiming mechanics. But alas, until someone makes proper, quantitative analysis on the mechanics of Halo 4, we can’t really know.

I’ve never really considered how the FOV affects strafing, it is conceivable however that a larger FOV makes the strafe look smaller and of course then makes the aim magnetism lock to the body with greater ease.

Whatever the case, there is no skill gap introduced by strafing anymore. I remember the days when strafing was important, the SK strafe moments, the embarrassments made by turing around on one shot and out BR’ing someone. In any case I miss that!

#12

It could be that the movement animations are better matched to the reticule adhesion / aim acceleration in Halo 4, and that all of the utility weapons are hitscan.

I’ve read through the Halo Council threads and watched the testing videos for Halo 4 and past Halos. From these tests, we know that the movement mechanics are almost the same (so, the pages tsassi linked) between all of the Halos. Also, though much has been said about the magnetism in Halo 4, bullet magnetism in Halo 3 was not tons different for the BR and AR (Halo 3 Bullet Magnetism) - though definitely a LOT less for the sniper (same vid). Halo 2 visually seems to have a bit less for some weapons, but tons for the PP charged shot (Halo 2 Bullet Magnetism).

So though the movement mechanics are the same between all the titles, if Halo 4 better matched the movement animations to the reticule adhesion and aim acceleration, then aiming in Halo 4 would feel significantly easier without greatly affecting the actual probability of getting a hit (or miss from good strafing techniques). So this would cause an apparent difference - but not a real one.

However, the BR in H4 is hitscan, whereas the BR in H3 was ballistic. Even if the bullet magnetism is similar (as the vids seem to demonstrate), removing the requirement to lead shots increases the actual probability of getting a hit. So this would cause a real difference in hit probability.

Relative aim assist values between Halo 4 and past Halos is unknown, though of the past titles, CE had the most (Legacy Halo Aim Assist) while Halo 2 / 3 were similar, with 3 having the least. Visually comparing, H4 seems to be in between H2 / H3 and CE.

So I would venture a guess that some of it is real (same magnetism + hitscan = greater probability of hit) and some of it is apparent (movement animations + aim acceleration = same probability of hit, but visually “easier” aiming). Reticule adhesion and friction may also add a bit of hit probability relative to H3 / H2, but is likely less than CE.

In short, I’m not sure how much has really changed, and how much just seems to have changed. But I do think that the real difference is not as great as it appears to be.

If going to H3-type levels is desired, the most expedient way would appear to be reducing bullet magnetism to counter the added accuracy from hitscan, but leaving the other aiming mechanics alone. I really don’t think we would want to go back to ballistic weapons, as behavior of ballistic weapons is strongly dependent on ping times, while bullet magnetism is the same for all players.

#13

Video of Strafe Comparisons through all Halo games w/ an explanation

Towards the end of the video, you can see all 5 strafes on top of each other.

#14

Last I checked, H4’s FoV is unchanged from Reach. Which was much more bigger than H2/H3’s but less than CE’s.

#15

Given Halo 4’s level of magnetism, I’d say we need to go back to CE’s movement speed just to even things out again.

So yeah, I’m voting CE on this one.

#16

I’ll just leave this here: The numbers on strafe.

My vote is Halo 2.

#17

either halo 2 or halo CE movement speed plox. also due to H2’s movement speed even with H2’s high autoaim and magnetism you could dodge shots due to the movement speed

#18

I think that 343 has been doing everything in there power to decrease the skill gap. I don’t see this on the horizon.

#19

> I’ll just leave this here: The numbers on strafe.
>
> My vote is Halo 2.

That was interesting. Disproved some of the data I provided earlier and also partially offers some explanations for the feel of the movement. I still believe aim assist is a much larger contributor to ineffectiveness of strafe as far as Halo 4 goes. That said, that claim is hardly valid without evidence. I’d be interested to see figures for aim assist in Halo 4, whether the data supports or disproves my claims.

#20

30:1 odds in favor of adjusting the strafe mechanic to make it faster… That works for me!