So I was thinking the other night while running through matchmaking what I feel is the biggest letdown and missed opportunity within H4. I’m not talking about gameplay, because honestly, I like H4 gameplay. Sure Infinity settings are annoying but that’s not what I’m here to talk about.
What 343 COMPLETELY missed the boat on, and is actually depressing to think about, is the LOST opportunity to be playing on community maps.
There are COUNTLESS quality community maps just floating out in the void, untouched, unappreciated and unplayed on.
This is HUGE failure on 343. The fact that I’m still seeing Lockout, Adrift and Haven EVERY SINGLE voting option is just sad. When there is SOOO many good forge maps.
I mean, why would you even have 4 forge pallets in the game if you refuse to offer matchmaking on the maps created? It’s not like we have a Custom game browser, it’s not exactly easy to organize Customs on these maps.
Just think of the collective man hours spent creating the quality maps, Seriously, just stop and visualize all the time so many people have spent to build some of these maps. Then just think about these maps, just sitting out there, untouched of combat, just floating out there in the void.
Im pretty sure one major reason behind all of this is that the community didnt seem to like the Forge maps in Reach MM, so i dont think 343I really wants to take the risk that these forums will be flooded with angry topics saying how the Forge maps are all horrible.
Unfortunately forge maps cause split screen players to have serious FPS drops making community maps near unplayable for them the only thing 343 dropped the ball on (in regards to this topic) is they made the graphics engine too powerful for the 360.
> Im pretty sure one major reason behind all of this is that the community didnt seem to like the Forge maps in Reach MM, so i dont think 343I really wants to take the risk that these forums will be flooded with angry topics saying how the Forge maps are all horrible.
That’s just cowardly, also, the reason people complained about the forge maps in reach is because they picked ABSOLUTELY terrible examples to put in. Like, Seriously Terrible.
Forge maps are WAY better in H4 than Reach. Also, we have voting options, so if people don’t like them, they can not vote for them, if the map is not performing well (Not being voted for ever) Then they can remove it from MM. It’s not exactly rocket science to have a rotating slot for Community maps in the Voting options.
> Unfortunately forge maps cause split screen players to have serious FPS drops making community maps near unplayable for them the only thing 343 dropped the ball on (in regards to this topic) is they made the graphics engine too powerful for the 360.
>
>
> Oh and ummm yeah what the poster above me said…
Yah I get that, split screen is terrible on forge maps. But so what, that didn’t stop them from having the Lockout remake or simplex available as a voting option pretty much EVERY TIME.
Also, they could have EASILY implemented a “Community” Playlist and give a warning to players who play in split screen.
That would split up the MM pop even more resulting in more problems then less.
I would love forge maps just as you would.
On top of that people no matter what will complain about the forge maps being added and reach’s were not at all bad (asides a few) it was just reach was congested with them in general there is not a high demand for forge maps.
> > Unfortunately forge maps cause split screen players to have serious FPS drops making community maps near unplayable for them the only thing 343 dropped the ball on (in regards to this topic) is they made the graphics engine too powerful for the 360.
> >
> >
> > Oh and ummm yeah what the poster above me said…
>
>
> Yah I get that, split screen is terrible on forge maps. But so what, that didn’t stop them from having the Lockout remake or simplex available as a voting option pretty much EVERY TIME.
>
> Also, they could have EASILY implemented a “Community” Playlist and give a warning to players who play in split screen.
I run into forged maps all the time. In all honesty, how many “Two symmetrical bases opposing each other, two different flanks opposing each other, one platform/structure in the center” maps do we honestly need?
I really admire the people who used to be good at forging in H3 before all these newer features came in, those guys were dedicated and became awesome map designers. That being said, most of them never really cared that much about matchmaking. The concepts of weapon balance are lost to many of these community forgers, and I’d bet money that less than 1% of them could explain the mechanics behind the spawn system and how respawn points/zones affect gameplay at higher levels. I think I’ve ran into one other person online who understands what a spawn block / spawn lock / spawn anchor means. These community forgers understand how to make a map that looks great, but not one which plays great.
I can’t think of a single good community map I’ve seen. If 343 decides to bring them back I hope they have their own playlist so they don’t infect the rest of the game.
Now if they chose a map by somebody who understands high level play, weapon balancing issues, and most importantly an IN DEPTH understanding of the spawn system, we might see an amazing map. That would be a diamond in the rough to say the least.
> That would split up the MM pop even more resulting in more problems then less.
>
> I would love forge maps just as you would.
>
> On top of that people no matter what will complain about the forge maps being added and reach’s were not at all bad (asides a few) it was just reach was congested with them in general there is not a high demand for forge maps.
There IS a demand for different experiences in MM. Seriously, you think people are content to play Adrift/Haven/Lockout for eternity? No
I do agree that it is probably too late for a community playlist to thrive, should’ve honestly been there from the beginning, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a bad idea to update the playlists which ARE ALREADY USING FORGE MAPS to implement NEW forge maps. Cause I GUARANTEE YOU there are WAY better forge maps than Lockout/Opus/Simplex.
> There IS a demand for different experiences in MM. Seriously, you think people are content to play Adrift/Haven/Lockout for eternity? No
>
> I do agree that it is probably too late for a community playlist to thrive, should’ve honestly been there from the beginning, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a bad idea to update the playlists which ARE ALREADY USING FORGE MAPS to implement NEW forge maps. Cause I GUARANTEE YOU there are WAY better forge maps than Lockout/Opus/Simplex.
I don’t think its that fair to say that their is a demand…for instance I see a thread talking about dlc maps not coming up way more than one about forge maps.
I have seen like 6 good forge map threads and 1 of those 6 I started and it sunk rather quick.
I do want to reiterate I would love more forge maps in MM specially CTF
> > There IS a demand for different experiences in MM. Seriously, you think people are content to play Adrift/Haven/Lockout for eternity? No
> >
> > I do agree that it is probably too late for a community playlist to thrive, should’ve honestly been there from the beginning, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a bad idea to update the playlists which ARE ALREADY USING FORGE MAPS to implement NEW forge maps. Cause I GUARANTEE YOU there are WAY better forge maps than Lockout/Opus/Simplex.
>
> I don’t think its that fair to say that their is a demand…for instance I see a thread talking about dlc maps not coming up way more than one about forge maps.
>
> I have seen like 6 good forge map threads and 1 of those 6 I started and it sunk rather quick.
>
> I do want to reiterate I would love more forge maps in MM specially CTF
Granted, people pay for DLC. Obviously they are going to complain about not being able to play on maps they pay for more than maps they don’t know about.
The fact still stands though, 343 dropped the ball on implementing something that would offer new, unique and fun experiences EASILY.
I REALLY just hope that Halo 5 has a custom game browser. It would make it easier to share, test and play on unique community driven content. But until then, I’m just going to highlight 343s missed opportunities.
Have a forge competition (thinking more for Halo 5). Top 3 maps become the new map pack. Have another edition of the same maps that also adds weapon skin / armor / cool stuff (think Champion bundle) that is 9.99.
That way people that want to support 343 / Halo like myself can still buy the maps. But everyone can play them for free.
Also, have a prize for the 3 maps that are chosen. Like a bunch of -Yoink!- points, or free Halo 5 DLC for the life of the game. (Think, not many people will win and it saves 343 lots of money AND it gets better maps). Even give them 1,000 dollars or something (truly pocket change).
My whole point, with a beefed up forge and competitions that will win attention on Waypoint, money or -Yoink!- points and a spot in the map rotation would be enough to make this a very serious and competitive competition. This in turn will create high quality maps.
Also, the 9.99 that me and many other pay to get maps and all the cool stuff goes to 343 just like DLC now… but EVERYONE gets the maps so DLC is always required for all play lists that it should apply to (and everyone has it).
Everyone wins this way. Also, throw additional micro transactions for in game (non performance, such as weapon skins and armor) as well. Community made via competitions or 343 made… I’d buy cool stuff to support the game.
DLC maps MUST be free for H5 longevity. I’m with OP, H4 is a pretty fun game overall. But lag (fixed with servers in H5) and map repetition) are major concerns.
I agree, we need more forge maps in MM. Simplex and onyx are better than any disk maps in halo 4. There are thousands of great maps out there, sure the spawns might be messed up, but with a little trial and error that can be fixed. Even on disk maps the throwdown playlist creators had to alter the spawns for them to work at the top level.
If there was a community forge map playlist that rotated with new maps every month, that would be great. Take the top 3 most voted maps each month and throw them into other playlists. Problem solved.
> Have a forge competition (thinking more for Halo 5). Top 3 maps become the new map pack. Have another edition of the same maps that also adds weapon skin / armor / cool stuff (think Champion bundle) that is 9.99.
>
> That way people that want to support 343 / Halo like myself can still buy the maps. But everyone can play them for free.
>
> Also, have a prize for the 3 maps that are chosen. Like a bunch of -Yoink!- points, or free Halo 5 DLC for the life of the game. (Think, not many people will win and it saves 343 lots of money AND it gets better maps). Even give them 1,000 dollars or something (truly pocket change).
>
> My whole point, with a beefed up forge and competitions that will win attention on Waypoint, money or -Yoink!- points and a spot in the map rotation would be enough to make this a very serious and competitive competition. This in turn will create high quality maps.
>
> Also, the 9.99 that me and many other pay to get maps and all the cool stuff goes to 343 just like DLC now… but EVERYONE gets the maps so DLC is always required for all play lists that it should apply to (and everyone has it).
>
> Everyone wins this way. Also, throw additional micro transactions for in game (non performance, such as weapon skins and armor) as well. Community made via competitions or 343 made… I’d buy cool stuff to support the game.
>
> DLC maps MUST be free for H5 longevity. I’m with OP, H4 is a pretty fun game overall. But lag (fixed with servers in H5) and map repetition) are major concerns.
You put a lot of thought into this and for that I thank you.
> Have a forge competition (thinking more for Halo 5). Top 3 maps become the new map pack. Have another edition of the same maps that also adds weapon skin / armor / cool stuff (think Champion bundle) that is 9.99.
>
> That way people that want to support 343 / Halo like myself can still buy the maps. But everyone can play them for free.
>
> Also, have a prize for the 3 maps that are chosen. Like a bunch of -Yoink!- points, or free Halo 5 DLC for the life of the game. (Think, not many people will win and it saves 343 lots of money AND it gets better maps). Even give them 1,000 dollars or something (truly pocket change).
>
> My whole point, with a beefed up forge and competitions that will win attention on Waypoint, money or -Yoink!- points and a spot in the map rotation would be enough to make this a very serious and competitive competition. This in turn will create high quality maps.
>
> Also, the 9.99 that me and many other pay to get maps and all the cool stuff goes to 343 just like DLC now… but EVERYONE gets the maps so DLC is always required for all play lists that it should apply to (and everyone has it).
>
> Everyone wins this way. Also, throw additional micro transactions for in game (non performance, such as weapon skins and armor) as well. Community made via competitions or 343 made… I’d buy cool stuff to support the game.
>
> DLC maps MUST be free for H5 longevity. I’m with OP, H4 is a pretty fun game overall. But lag (fixed with servers in H5) and map repetition) are major concerns.
I think what you’re saying, Forge competitions, would be amazing for the community. Not only would it facilitate the creation of unique and interesting maps but it would help get the community to really feel engaged and inspired.
> I agree, we need more forge maps in MM. Simplex and onyx are better than any disk maps in halo 4. There are thousands of great maps out there, sure the spawns might be messed up, but with a little trial and error that can be fixed. Even on disk maps the throwdown playlist creators had to alter the spawns for them to work at the top level.
>
> If there was a community forge map playlist that rotated with new maps every month, that would be great. Take the top 3 most voted maps each month and throw them into other playlists. Problem solved.
Man, this is EXACTLY what I was saying when H4 launched. It would allow for people to basically playtest the decent maps, finding out what works and what doesn’t. Then the cream of the crop floats to the top and implemented into regular MM. So players who want to play all manner of community maps could do so in the playlist, but players who don’t really care would still get to experience the VERY best of the community content.
> There are COUNTLESS quality community maps just floating out in the void, untouched, unappreciated and unplayed on.
>
> This is HUGE failure on 343.
To be honest, community-made maps, even the ones in matchmaking, are usually pretty awful. IMO, even the good community maps aren’t as good as some of the normal maps. I’d much rather play on Haven or Abandon than Hekau or Inheritor.
> > There are COUNTLESS quality community maps just floating out in the void, untouched, unappreciated and unplayed on.
> >
> > This is HUGE failure on 343.
>
> To be honest, community-made maps, even the ones in matchmaking, are usually pretty awful. IMO, even the good community maps aren’t as good as some of the normal maps. I’d much rather play on Haven or Abandon than Hekau or Inheritor.
Dude, onyx and simplex IMHO play better than pretty much EVERY on disc map aside from Haven and Abandon. I am actually of the mind that Haven is the best map in the game and even in the top 10 best halo maps ever, and facilitates the H4 sandbox beautifully. The Problem for me and a lot of other players is that Haven and abandon is all we got.
That being said, I would play Onyx or Aether or Carbon over Solace/Lockout/Adrift/Complex ANY DAY.
> > There are COUNTLESS quality community maps just floating out in the void, untouched, unappreciated and unplayed on.
> >
> > This is HUGE failure on 343.
>
> To be honest, community-made maps, even the ones in matchmaking, are usually pretty awful. IMO, even the good community maps aren’t as good as some of the normal maps. I’d much rather play on Haven or Abandon than Hekau or Inheritor.
In a quarterly competition, with tangible rewards & legit ‘judges’ (honestly not sure to use voting, pros, 343 employees, etc, but some fair system to get the quality maps noticed)… I can assure you there would be great quality maps.
Also, of course, I’m assuming ramped up forge tools and lag not be an issue (Xbone, H5). With H4 I think the best solution (more band-aid) is to require DLC for team slayer and or BTB.
Permanently of course, to give people reason to buy it (not some temporary requirement that simply makes it less appealing to buy)
‘OR’ (the above better b/c more players, but…)
DLC playlist at all times.
It really does bother me a little that I can’t go for achievements when I play if that’s what I feel like doing with what I bought :-/
> Also, of course, I’m assuming ramped up forge tools and lag not be an issue (Xbone, H5). With H4 I think the best solution (more band-aid) is to require DLC for team slayer and or BTB.
>
> Permanently of course, to give people reason to buy it (not some temporary requirement that simply makes it less appealing to buy)
>
> ‘OR’ (the above better b/c more players, but…)
>
> DLC playlist at all times.
>
> It really does bother me a little that I can’t go for achievements when I play if that’s what I feel like doing with what I bought :-/
They did have Team Slayer be Mandatory DLC, but it only lasted a short while because the population COMPLETELY dropped off.
The REAL way to handle DLC is behind the scenes. Making DLC owners be more frequently paired with other DLC owners.
That being said, I still want more Forge maps in MM.