The Return of Survival Firefight

I’m not going to shut up about this, and neither should anyone that misses a survival-styled Firefight in Reach matchmaking. Let’s go over the reasons why Survival Firefight needs to return…Again. Because this stuff needs to be HEARD, and until we get a message from 343 saying “WE GET IT.”, I’m going to keep on shouting about it.

  • Survival-Styled Firefight is what Firefight was built on. It’s what Firefight was meant for. To deny this is illogical and insane.

  • Out of all the possible experiences represented in Reach’s matchmaking, Survival Firefight is the only one missing. You currently CANNOT play a Survival-Styled Firefight experience for Credits.

  • Returning FF Limited as it was may not be the answer, but the community can come up with a good FF Survival gametype given the chance.

  • Limited wasn’t played by the general population because easier cR payouts were available in Arcade…Not because the gametype was bad.

  • Out of all the other “AAA” wave-based survival modes (Horde Mode, CoD Zombies, etc.), Halo Reach’s Firefight is the only one that currently requires no skill and coordination whatsoever. Without Survival-styled Firefight, Reach’s ArcadeFight is just a shooting gallery. It’s embarrassing.

-Not having Survival-Based Firefight is a waste of the gametype and all the hard work the programmers put into AI, balancing, and the design of the maps. In Arcadefight, AI doesn’t matter. Map choice doesn’t matter. Balance doesn’t matter. It’s all just “SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT”. Without Survival-Styled FF, all the work that went into making Firefight unique is lost. All of it is for nothing.

So how do we bring it back? Well, we’re at a playlist wall, and 343 can’t simply create another one. Here’s my thoughts on what playlist(s) to eliminate:

-FF Doubles. It was cool while it lasted, but this can easily be removed.

-FF Arcade. I’d love to see this embarrassment of a gametype removed from matchmaking entirely. It serves no purpose other than a cR booster’s paradise, and if replaced with Survival…Just as many people would play for the easy cR. But now, they’d have to work for it.

-Team Slayer. Move all it’s current gametypes into Squad Slayer, and rename “Arena” to “Team Slayer”. As a side benefit, you’ll also see a massive spike in Ranked players! Win-win.

-Anniversary Firefight. It’s just Installation 04 Arcadefight. Could a playlist get more pointless?

There’s 4 options for you, 343. I love you guys, but it was an utterly boneheaded decision to remove Firefight Limited. There are some of us who can’t enjoy Firefight unless there’s some challenge to it, and currently, you’re depriving us of enjoying that kind of gameplay.

Do the right thing. Make a choice, and give us back Survival Firefight!

Well, I’m not gonna quote that huge post, but: Tru7h. 100% truth.

> -FF Arcade. I’d love to see this embarrassment of a gametype removed from matchmaking entirely. It serves no purpose other than a cR booster’s paradise, and if replaced with Survival…Just as many people would play for the easy cR. But now, they’d have to work for it.

As I’ve said before: this would be the playlist I would pick to cull.

If you really want arcadefight, they’re still in Doubles and are arguably better in there anyway since there is more to shoot. Do FF Survival a favour and nerf the game complete in doubles and FF Survival would be the go-to playlist for Firefight - where it actually needs those extra players.

Limited was garbage because it wasn’t survival based. You still only got 1 set and 30 minutes to do it. Any idiot can survive 1 set. That’s not what ODST was. I want the option of running long enough to get a friggin Unfrig medal, and I want the option to do it both classic and arcade style (infinite ammo and preferably arcade fight loadouts) WITH dropships EVERY WAVE again so we have some hope in hell of finishing Grounded. I want my damn unlimited sniper. The only thing limited should be lives.

and FYI, Limited is still in Doubles. If you want that crap so bad the way it was, do that. Personally, I love Doubles. Aside from allowing 2 people to go in there and avoid people, it also allows 2 on the same console to go in with no lag from extra people. If they drop Doubles, they better give us the option to play all 3 rounds in Score Attack ourselves.

I agree o.p

My Firefight helljumpers ALWAYS played in LFF until they removed it my reasons:

PRO
Limits lives and makes people stop rushing to their deaths
Loadouts were perfect
Time limit was extreamly fair
Required a full team co-ordination rather than just solo or doubles

CON
sometimes the MM would freeze up and cycle between attempting to find a match or refusal to load map until one of us was removed
If your not in a connected team via mic or party people often found the games less enjoyable
If people didn’t get their desired map(s) they would quit asap leaving the remainder player(s) alone increasing the odds of instant death

Reach’s FF will never become a survival mode, because it was designed to be a noobish gametype were you always win and get lots of cR for just spamming the FRG.

But hopefully for Halo 4, credits are thrown to fire and we can get a ODST style FF there.

It should be noted that those that want to play survival-based Firefight now have custom challenges that allow them to play said SBFFs in custom games and still get credit for it.
Where as before, playing custom FF was only good for the 1mill achievement (and that could be “cheesed” to do so).

The tools are there for you to utilize them. I suggest trying to create a group/clan of like-minded players, starting here at Waypoint, and with that newly formed network, engage in the FF battles you so very much crave.
Your mother will not mind if you do.

I agree with you 100% Time Glitch and bringing back an improved FF Versus would be pretty awesome too :]

> It should be noted that those that want to play survival-based Firefight now have custom challenges that allow them to play said SBFFs in custom games and still get credit for it.
> Where as before, playing custom FF was only good for the 1mill achievement (and that could be “cheesed” to do so).
>
> The tools are there for you to utilize them. I suggest trying to create a group/clan of like-minded players, starting here at Waypoint, and with that newly formed network, engage in the FF battles you so very much crave.
> Your mother will not mind if you do.

Really…

So your solution is “Yeah, screw what Firefight is really about. If you want that, do it on your OWN time…”

Matchmaking is almost entirely about convenience. Sometimes, you don’t have the ability to gather 3 other people into a party, set up a custom challenge, and then go for it. Why don’t I just tell YOU that if you want to play no-skill shooty-shooty Arcadefight, you can do THAT in customs too…

You have a lot of gall, sir, and you come off sounding VERY elitist.

> Really…
>
> So your solution is “Yeah, screw what Firefight is really about. If you want that, do it on your OWN time…”

I choose to cool my tongue.
You don’t see the funny in that it is all the more classic for being so?

> Matchmaking is almost entirely about convenience. Sometimes, you don’t have the ability to gather 3 other people into a party, set up a custom challenge, and then go for it. Why don’t I just tell YOU that if you want to play no-skill shooty-shooty Arcadefight, you can do THAT in customs too…

Yes it is a convenience to have it in matchmaking.

> You have a lot of gall, sir, and you come off sounding VERY elitist.

With the post I wrote you’re coming at me with that attitude?
That’s not a way to gain fellow player into your party who enjoys their Firefights to be more hardcore.
The Cat in the Hat is an elitist?
Also, that your gripe is that your convenience is gone but not your ability to earn credits while playing a more hardcore FF experience means you are the one who is out of line x2.

> -FF Doubles. It was cool while it lasted, but this can easily be removed.
>
> -FF Arcade. I’d love to see this embarrassment of a gametype removed from matchmaking entirely. It serves no purpose other than a cR booster’s paradise, and if replaced with Survival…Just as many people would play for the easy cR. But now, they’d have to work for it.

While I agree there should be a Survival FireFight, I DON’T agree with these two thoughts above. I, myself, am not a huge fan of FireFight, mostly because playing with 3 other people, the connection is so latent it’s to the point of near unplayability. Not having host in FireFight isn’t fun when someone doesn’t have an upload speed that can handle it.

Especially when it’s to the point that it drops you from the game altogether and you end up playing alone. Yeah, that’s more kills and points for me, but how the hell am I supposed to get an Assist Commendation when I keep getting disconnected from a bad host in FFMM? This is the reason FireFight Doubles needs to stay. Almost any connection can handle playing a 2-person FF game and you can still progress in all your Commendations without suffering from bad-playability.

FF Arcade I think is fine, it offers up a faster-paced more competitive fight against the AI and will wreck you if you aren’t careful. I love the different loadouts and I can still stick with my Grenade Launcher and rack up my assists if I want to. It’s not a booster’s paradise, but rather some of us want excitement and at least a challenge. In Arcade you really can’t sit in 1 spot and expect not to have to move around.

> You don’t see the funny in that is is all the more classic for being so?

Two points:

  • He never mentioned ‘classic’ anything: he wants to play FF how it was designed and built - as a survival mode.
  • Being bad, but classic, is still bad. Matchmaking is an indisputable improvement.

> With the post I wrote you’re coming at me with that attitude?

Allow me to misquote you to demonstrate the uselessness of your post:

> It should be noted that those that want to play arcade style Firefight now have custom challenges that allow them to play said ASFFs in custom games and still get credit for it. The tools are there for those players to utilize them.
>
> So, I suggest removing Arcade and bringing back a survival type FF playlist in it’s place.

I’ve always wondered why FF Limited wasn’t the default gametype and Arcade just the sideshow. Limited was always more fun anyway.

I’ve been trying to come up with a better FF gametype for some time now, but no one ever plays FF and its always just a little bit off.

> Also, that your gripe is that your convenience is gone but not your ability to earn credits while playing a more hardcore FF experience means you are the one who is out of line x2.

I’m out of line because I want Survival Firefight in matchmaking?

…What?

Man, it must be nice to live in la-la land where logic and reason doesn’t apply to you.

> I’ve always wondered why FF Limited wasn’t the default gametype and Arcade just the sideshow. Limited was always more fun anyway.

No, ODST style with unlimited time, unlimited sets, and random skulls would be fun. That’s where your challenge was. Try surviving when they decide to turn on Black Eye for more than just the bloody bonus round. Here’s a rough idea of what I think should be done…

***Arcade Fight needs a Laser loadout!

Add 2 new gametypes…

Classic Firefight:
*NO Time Limit
*NO Set Limit (9 sets or unlimited depending on what settings allow)
*Random Skulls (again, depends on config options)
*Classic Loadouts with drops, ammo bunkers, etc. Same as “Limited” was
*Phantoms every wave

Arcade Classic:
*NO Time Limit
*NO Set Limit (9 sets or unlimited depending on what settings allow)
*Random Skulls (again, depends on config options)
*Arcade Fight loadouts with unlimited ammo
*Phantoms every wave

…and drop the redundant weapon specific game types in both FF Arcade and Score Attack lists

Score Attack (ALLOW MORE VOTING ROUNDS!)
-Regular/2X
-Arcade Attack (Same as ArcadeFight by yourself)
-Crash Site (Does anyone actually play that?)
-Classic FF/Attack
-Arcade Classic
-Skirm
-Gruntpoc
-Fiesta

FF Doubles (needs at least 2 more voting rounds to account for DLC maps)
-Classic Firefight
-Arcade Fight
-Arcade Classic
-Fiesta (maybe toss it in randomly)

Firefight (rename FF Arcade, preferably add another voting round or 2)
-Classic Firefight
-Arcade Fight
-Arcade Classic
-Fiesta

Things like Rocket Fight are pointless since you can spawn with just about anything in Arcade. I could see maybe leaving Fist Fight or Sniper because of the difference in running those with no weapon pickup. It would also be nice to see random skulls or at least some change to skulls, as well as considering a gametype with infinite armor abilities. We get infinite everything else in Arcade. Why not?

> > Also, that your gripe is that your convenience is gone but not your ability to earn credits while playing a more hardcore FF experience means you are the one who is out of line x2.
>
> I’m out of line because I want Survival Firefight in matchmaking?
>
> …What?
>
> Man, it must be nice to live in la-la land where logic and reason doesn’t apply to you.

No you are out of line for thinking I am attacking you as well as acting as though 343i has completely incapacitated your ability to play a more hardcore FF experience.

For one, as stated, custom challenges don’t prevent players from playing survival-FFs, they encourage it.

For two, I suggested that you start a “clan” to find those like-minded as you. If you guys get your own community going and get its population high enough, the convenience of MM will definitely return.

Prove that as a gamer you are both resourceful and experienced by using the resources given to you. Don’t use these forums to vent, use them to build.

@ thy ReaperMC,

what did you think of the original HR FF settings when the game first came out before all the updates were implemented? I am not including doubles or score attack,reason being& ODST FF was coop based with a intense difficulty!

I think there shouldn’t be an Unlimited ammo crate either. I liked having to consume ammo.

> @ thy ReaperMC,
>
> what did you think of the original HR FF settings when the game first came out before all the updates were implemented? I am not including doubles or score attack,reason being& ODST FF was coop based with a intense difficulty!
>
> I think there shouldn’t be an Unlimited ammo crate either. I liked having to consume ammo.

Honestly, can’t remember.

But overall my preference would be to have arcade FF-Snipers or FF-Rockets (and similar types) have infinite ammo caches but not player infinite ammo. Currently ammo caches don’t refill the Sniper or Rocks, so I can’t custom make that.
Infinite player ammo weapons are great for practicing basic weapon skills but almost lack any challenge.
Cache placement can enforce a challenge. I ask, what good is infinite ammo if it’s located in the middle of a killbox with near perfect conditions for the killers?
I answer, when you’ve got a team of bad–Yoink- mutha-fos you get a scenario such as this:
“Sir, the enemy is high and converging from all directions”
“Excellent, we have them surrounded.”

And then I’d like to have a more ODST-style game-type that functions nearly exactly like the name states. 5 not 10 lives to start and near infinite rounds of progression. There should be round limit, not time limit that ends once the Mythic-round has been beaten… if it is beaten.
I think the weapon drops being random at each round is preferable to the designated locations of ODST. Prevents players from creating the perfect strategy for every round as they won’t know exactly where to grab those weapons. It’s not much, but all the little challenges add up.
But I’d also prefer the player base with a limited weapons cache. A couple rifles and shotguns with very limited ammo with a more liberal amount of ARs and Pistols. That way players can play as they choose and perhaps save up a few shotguns or rifles for the next round (if picked up just before the next round).

In the meantime, give this a try with custom challenges activated. It’s heavy on Brutes and Elites if that helps. Remove the x1.5OS for anything other than solo. I think the lives aren’t lowered.

> > > Also, that your gripe is that your convenience is gone but not your ability to earn credits while playing a more hardcore FF experience means you are the one who is out of line x2.
> >
> > I’m out of line because I want Survival Firefight in matchmaking?
> >
> > …What?
> >
> > Man, it must be nice to live in la-la land where logic and reason doesn’t apply to you.
>
> No you are out of line for thinking I am attacking you as well as acting as though 343i has completely incapacitated your ability to play a more hardcore FF experience.
>
> For one, as stated, custom challenges don’t prevent players from playing survival-FFs, they encourage it.
>
> For two, I suggested that you start a “clan” to find those like-minded as you. If you guys get your own community going and get its population high enough, the convenience of MM will definitely return.
>
> Prove that as a gamer you are both resourceful and experienced by using the resources given to you. Don’t use these forums to vent, use them to build.

Okay, so rather than have 343 do a bit of housekeeping, you’d rather I…

-Set up custom challenges for EVERY game of FF I, or the “community” I build, want to play.
-Start a damn WEBSITE because I want to play Firefight a certain way.
-Expect 343 to even give a damn that I did the previous 2 things.

You know, some of us don’t have that kind of time. Some of us don’t have that kind of MONEY (Seriously, websites and forums aren’t free!). And certainly some of us don’t think that we should have to go to such extremes when 343 could plop in a playlist and call it a day.

If there’s anyone who’s out of line here, it’s you, for taking the side of a developer that made a bad call.

Look, your ideas are not BAD ideas. They just aren’t practical. Not in the slightest. Expecting someone to go to that much trouble to somehow “Prove themselves worthy” of getting listened to is, again, a very elitist attitude.

See I don’t think of it as proving one’s self worth.
I think of it of exercising one’s passion.
A leader of men rather than town crier as it were.

And I do have a response to the accusation of being an elitist, but then I realised you’re just trolling to vent.

So how can I convince you to lead if I won’t give an example myself?

> See I don’t think of it as proving one’s self worth.
> I think of it of exercising one’s passion.
> A leader of men rather than town crier as it were.
>
> And I do have a response to the accusation of being an elitist, but then I realised you’re just trolling to vent.
>
> So how can I convince you to lead if I won’t give an example myself?

Alright then, sir. You claim to be on the same side as me here. Are you passionate about Firefight Survival? Would you like to see it come back? Would you be willing to put in the time and effort required to form a community of Firefighters based on custom challenges?

Well then…

extends hand

Two heads are better than one.

I imagine we could think of some way to get this to work, hmm?