> 2533274936074323;1879:
> Well it’s literally impossible to defend sprint because no matter what the sprint fan defender says there always sprintless version.
Well that’s kinda the million dollar question. If everything Sprint does has a “sprintless” equivalent, why do people (not necessarily you) believe that Sprint is needed*, no, required* for a Halo game to do moderately okay, let alone be really good?
> 2533274833081329;1882:
> > 2533274936074323;1879:
> > Well it’s literally impossible to defend sprint because no matter what the sprint fan defender says there always sprintless version.
>
> Well that’s kinda the million dollar question. If everything Sprint does has a “sprintless” equivalent, why do people (not necessarily you) believe that Sprint is needed*, no, required* for a Halo game to do moderately okay, let alone be really good?
I use to be a sprint defender but I gave up last year. Since I can’t defend some of my opinions well I either don’t talk about them or just accept I’m wrong.
> 2533274936074323;1883:
> > 2533274833081329;1882:
> > > 2533274936074323;1879:
> > > Well it’s literally impossible to defend sprint because no matter what the sprint fan defender says there always sprintless version.
> >
> > Well that’s kinda the million dollar question. If everything Sprint does has a “sprintless” equivalent, why do people (not necessarily you) believe that Sprint is needed*, no, required* for a Halo game to do moderately okay, let alone be really good?
>
> I use to be a sprint defender but I gave up last year. Since I can’t defend some of my opinions well I either don’t talk about them or just accept I’m wrong.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying “I like this but I’m not sure it’s better for the game”.
One of my examples: I like and prefer the 1-50 system from Halo 2 and Halo 3 but I think Halo 5’s system is better for the game, and that it would be bad if Infinite went back to the old 1-50.
I have some ideas for the movement:
Momentum based Spartan Abilities ( differnt name): insted of button activated abnimations, you get a momentum boost in the indicated direction:
reach maximum strafe velocity , or somenthing a bit above it, in a split-second
halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
add a extra vector of force to your jumps
if the momentum button is pressed while crouching mid jump, you are accelerated downwards
extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
> 2533274945422049;1885:
> I have some ideas for the movement:
>
> - Momentum based Spartan Abilities ( differnt name): insted of button activated abnimations, you get a momentum boost in the indicated direction:
>
> - reach maximum strafe velocity , or somenthing a bit above it, in a split-second
> - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
> - add a extra vector of force to your jumps
> - if the momentum button is pressed while crouching mid jump, you are accelerated downwards
> - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
> - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
Sounds like over-complication that doesn’t really benefit the game, and seems more like adding in a weird mechanic and then trying to fix it and balance it to fit Halo’s gameplay. This sounds familiar… oh, that’s right, 343’s done that a whole bunch. Genuinely asking, is this more of a proposed fix for the current spartan abilities? Because imo the game would be better and less convoluted if we just scrapped all of these mechanics instead of trying to put band--Yoink!- on things that are at odds with Halo’s core gameplay.
> 2779900484279609;1886:
> > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > I have some ideas for the movement:
> >
> > - Momentum based Spartan Abilities ( differnt name): insted of button activated abnimations, you get a momentum boost in the indicated direction:
> >
> > - reach maximum strafe velocity , or somenthing a bit above it, in a split-second
> > - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
> > - add a extra vector of force to your jumps
> > - if the momentum button is pressed while crouching mid jump, you are accelerated downwards
> > - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
> > - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
>
> Sounds like over-complication that doesn’t really benefit the game, and seems more like adding in a weird mechanic and then trying to fix it and balance it to fit Halo’s gameplay. This sounds familiar… oh, that’s right, 343’s done that a whole bunch. Genuinely asking, is this more of a proposed fix for the current spartan abilities? Because imo the game would be better and less convoluted if we just scrapped all of these mechanics instead of trying to put band--Yoink!- on things that are at odds with Halo’s core gameplay.
I tried to come up with a method to make advanced movements less intrusive and more player- controlled. player control over the action ( like the famous “weapon always up” mantra) is a core element of halo. advanced physics are also present in the classic halo games. these replacements for spartan abilities are player controlled and physics based. not “press F to pay respect” animations. they are minimalistic but could be chained to movements not seen since CS:GO surfing. The proposed changes also adress the problem of chaotic movement, as sprint would be viable only to traverse non occupied open map areas. thrusters would be scalled back to a level of “stafe support”. things like clamber, spartan charge and ground pound would be replaced by an additional skillfull jump mechanic and well used character momentum.
it sound complicated. but in practize it would be easy.
So, yes it is a proposed fix for spartan abilities. ithese should work with the halo formula. similar to the additions in DOOM.
> 2533274945422049;1888:
> So, yes it is a proposed fix for spartan abilities. ithese should work with the halo formula. similar to the additions in DOOM.
For future reference, you should edit comments like this into your previous post rather than making two posts in a row.
> 2533274945422049;1887:
> > 2779900484279609;1886:
> > > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > > I have some ideas for the movement:
> > >
> > > - Momentum based Spartan Abilities ( differnt name): insted of button activated abnimations, you get a momentum boost in the indicated direction:
> > >
> > > - reach maximum strafe velocity , or somenthing a bit above it, in a split-second
> > > - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
> > > - add a extra vector of force to your jumps
> > > - if the momentum button is pressed while crouching mid jump, you are accelerated downwards
> > > - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
> > > - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
> >
> > Sounds like over-complication that doesn’t really benefit the game, and seems more like adding in a weird mechanic and then trying to fix it and balance it to fit Halo’s gameplay. This sounds familiar… oh, that’s right, 343’s done that a whole bunch. Genuinely asking, is this more of a proposed fix for the current spartan abilities? Because imo the game would be better and less convoluted if we just scrapped all of these mechanics instead of trying to put band--Yoink!- on things that are at odds with Halo’s core gameplay.
>
> I tried to come up with a method to make advanced movements less intrusive and more player- controlled. player control over the action ( like the famous “weapon always up” mantra) is a core element of halo. advanced physics are also present in the classic halo games. these replacements for spartan abilities are player controlled and physics based. not “press F to pay respect” animations. they are minimalistic but could be chained to movements not seen since CS:GO surfing. The proposed changes also adress the problem of chaotic movement, as sprint would be viable only to traverse non occupied open map areas. thrusters would be scalled back to a level of “stafe support”. things like clamber, spartan charge and ground pound would be replaced by an additional skillfull jump mechanic and well used character momentum.
>
> it sound complicated. but in practize it would be easy.
Thanks for giving a well thought out answer. I appreciate that. I could see momentum based mechanics working well if it was just integrated into the movement and not an additional “add-on mechanic.” This would be inherently skill based, and something I would welcome. I probably wouldn’t prefer it to how classic Halo plays, but that is just my personal preference.
> 2779900484279609;1890:
> > 2533274945422049;1887:
> > > 2779900484279609;1886:
> > > > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > > > I have some ideas for the movement:
> > > >
> > > > - Momentum based Spartan Abilities ( differnt name): insted of button activated abnimations, you get a momentum boost in the indicated direction:
> > > >
> > > > - reach maximum strafe velocity , or somenthing a bit above it, in a split-second
> > > > - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
> > > > - add a extra vector of force to your jumps
> > > > - if the momentum button is pressed while crouching mid jump, you are accelerated downwards
> > > > - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
> > > > - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
> > >
> > > Sounds like over-complication that doesn’t really benefit the game, and seems more like adding in a weird mechanic and then trying to fix it and balance it to fit Halo’s gameplay. This sounds familiar… oh, that’s right, 343’s done that a whole bunch. Genuinely asking, is this more of a proposed fix for the current spartan abilities? Because imo the game would be better and less convoluted if we just scrapped all of these mechanics instead of trying to put band--Yoink!- on things that are at odds with Halo’s core gameplay.
> >
> > I tried to come up with a method to make advanced movements less intrusive and more player- controlled. player control over the action ( like the famous “weapon always up” mantra) is a core element of halo. advanced physics are also present in the classic halo games. these replacements for spartan abilities are player controlled and physics based. not “press F to pay respect” animations. they are minimalistic but could be chained to movements not seen since CS:GO surfing. The proposed changes also adress the problem of chaotic movement, as sprint would be viable only to traverse non occupied open map areas. thrusters would be scalled back to a level of “stafe support”. things like clamber, spartan charge and ground pound would be replaced by an additional skillfull jump mechanic and well used character momentum.
> >
> > it sound complicated. but in practize it would be easy.
>
> Thanks for giving a well thought out answer. I appreciate that. I could see momentum based mechanics working well if it was just integrated into the movement and not an additional “add-on mechanic.” This would be inherently skill based, and something I would welcome. I probably wouldn’t prefer it to how classic Halo plays, but that is just my personal preference.
The toggeling of extra- momentum by a button is there to give the player the ability to achive some noteworthy momentum without environmental objects ( which would be cool too) like mancanons. achiving this momentum just by walking would make the movement too wonky. although there should be some aim- penalties for player toggled momentum, which environmental momentum shouldn’t have.
> 2533274945422049;1891:
> The toggeling of extra- momentum by a button is there to give the player the ability to achive some noteworthy momentum without environmental objects ( which would be cool too) like mancanons. achiving this momentum just by walking would make the movement too wonky. although there should be some aim- penalties for player toggled momentum, which environmental momentum shouldn’t have.
It’s still a bit unclear to me how you imagine this momentum to come about in practice. Is it like a boost type thing, essentially like modified Thruster Pack?
Also, while I’m at it, I have a couple of comments.
> 2533274945422049;1885:
> - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
Reduced turning speed is a bad idea. It just makes the game feel unresponsive without serving any meaningful function in gameplay. Really, there is no need for any kind of “sprint”.
> 2533274945422049;1885:
> - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
Regardless of whether there is any kind of “momentum button”, the power of melee attacks being momentum based is a good idea to give a tiny bit of much needed depth to melee combat.
> 2533274945422049;1885:
> - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
You could just increase the maximum edge height to which a player can climb onto if the outcome that you want is players not complaining about “falling because their toes hit the ledge”. Unless you imagine something more drastic, more like Clamber in terms of how much you can miss and still make it. I’d be against that because I can’t imagine how you’d implement this without slowing the player down, and maps would end up being scaled such that you’d need to use this for many jumps.
> 2533274825830455;1892:
> > 2533274945422049;1891:
> > The toggeling of extra- momentum by a button is there to give the player the ability to achive some noteworthy momentum without environmental objects ( which would be cool too) like mancanons. achiving this momentum just by walking would make the movement too wonky. although there should be some aim- penalties for player toggled momentum, which environmental momentum shouldn’t have.
>
> It’s still a bit unclear to me how you imagine this momentum to come about in practice. Is it like a boost type thing, essentially like modified Thruster Pack?
>
> Also, while I’m at it, I have a couple of comments.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
>
> Reduced turning speed is a bad idea. It just makes the game feel unresponsive without serving any meaningful function in gameplay. Really, there is no need for any kind of “sprint”.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
>
> Regardless of whether there is any kind of “momentum button”, the power of melee attacks being momentum based is a good idea to give a tiny bit of much needed depth to melee combat.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
>
> You could just increase the maximum edge height to which a player can climb onto if the outcome that you want is players not complaining about “falling because their toes hit the ledge”. Unless you imagine something more drastic, more like Clamber in terms of how much you can miss and still make it. I’d be against that because I can’t imagine how you’d implement this without slowing the player down, and maps would end up being scaled such that you’d need to use this for many jumps.
Momentum: the button functions like an internal mancanon. it gives you a boost which would wear of because of friction. sprinting just aplies a constant force to counter the loss of momentum by friction. sprinting also limits your turning rate like while boosting with a ghost. this way sprint is less aplicable in close quarters. ( it is hard to change directions while sprinting, like in real life ) normal running is responsive as ever. but you can’t “sprint around a corner” ( like irl ).
the feet hitbox gives extra egde connecting height, with the limitation that it only allows for a reduced jump height after contact ( analog to the blast radius zones from ingame explosions). it is not as high as clamber, but as high as crouch jump. crouch jumping would still be viable, because this hitbox is slaved to the feet, so crouching would move it upwards to double crouch height, resulting in something around clamber height ( chest height for a spartan).
because this edge height hitbox is just a hitbox, you would still have to press jump ( else your character would colide with the object, you are not automaticaly lifted like during normal steps). the jump is coordinated manualy like normal jumps. the lower the edge is, the more the jumping force can be used to move forwards (like with normal jumps).
most jumps should be designed to be doable by normaly jumping. some should be designed for edge- jumps/ crouch jumps. only trick jumps should require chaining.
the results would look similar to a less extreme version of the movements shown in the locke armor trailer.
> 2533274945422049;1893:
> > 2533274825830455;1892:
> > > 2533274945422049;1891:
> > > The toggeling of extra- momentum by a button is there to give the player the ability to achive some noteworthy momentum without environmental objects ( which would be cool too) like mancanons. achiving this momentum just by walking would make the movement too wonky. although there should be some aim- penalties for player toggled momentum, which environmental momentum shouldn’t have.
> >
> > It’s still a bit unclear to me how you imagine this momentum to come about in practice. Is it like a boost type thing, essentially like modified Thruster Pack?
> >
> > Also, while I’m at it, I have a couple of comments.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > > - halo online like sprint ( a small speedboost forward, reduced turning speed, slower shield recharge)
> >
> > Reduced turning speed is a bad idea. It just makes the game feel unresponsive without serving any meaningful function in gameplay. Really, there is no need for any kind of “sprint”.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > > - extra momentum increases your melee damage, but also the dammage others can inflict on you by meleeing ( a bit less)
> >
> > Regardless of whether there is any kind of “momentum button”, the power of melee attacks being momentum based is a good idea to give a tiny bit of much needed depth to melee combat.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274945422049;1885:
> > > - there is a second “feet hitbox” around your normal hitbox. if you narowly miss an edge by height or distance while jumping, the additional hitbox can still reach the edge and you can perform a half-height jump ( like bugging up a wall). crouch-jumping would also move this hitbox.
> >
> > You could just increase the maximum edge height to which a player can climb onto if the outcome that you want is players not complaining about “falling because their toes hit the ledge”. Unless you imagine something more drastic, more like Clamber in terms of how much you can miss and still make it. I’d be against that because I can’t imagine how you’d implement this without slowing the player down, and maps would end up being scaled such that you’d need to use this for many jumps.
>
> Momentum: the button functions like an internal mancanon. it gives you a boost which would wear of because of friction. sprinting just aplies a constant force to counter the loss of momentum by friction. sprinting also limits your turning rate like while boosting with a ghost. this way sprint is less aplicable in close quarters. ( it is hard to change directions while sprinting, like in real life ) normal running is responsive as ever. but you can’t “sprint around a corner” ( like irl ).
>
> the feet hitbox gives extra egde connecting height, with the limitation that it only allows for a reduced jump height after contact ( analog to the blast radius zones from ingame explosions). it is not as high as clamber, but as high as crouch jump. crouch jumping would still be viable, because this hitbox is slaved to the feet, so crouching would move it upwards to double crouch height, resulting in something around clamber height ( chest height for a spartan).
> because this edge height hitbox is just a hitbox, you would still have to press jump ( else your character would colide with the object, you are not automaticaly lifted like during normal steps). the jump is coordinated manualy like normal jumps. the lower the edge is, the more the jumping force can be used to move forwards (like with normal jumps).
>
> most jumps should be designed to be doable by normaly jumping. some should be designed for edge- jumps/ crouch jumps. only trick jumps should require chaining.
>
> the results would look similar to a less extreme version of the movements shown in the locke armor trailer.
I don’t really get why you wouldn’t bake this sort of thing into the base movement, and it strikes me that this imagining of sprint (apart from not forcing you too lower your gun) has the same issues that the current implementation has. It seems to me that you’re advocating a single button that will:
The question is how does this improve on what’s already in the game? It seems to me that the current version of thrust is more useful than a contextual strafe thrust (which I don’t see as a particularly intuitive mechanic - because at what exact angle does the strafe thrust transition to a running toggle?), because it’s an unambiguous mechanic (although it would be improved by adding a visual tell when it’s finished recharging in multiplayer), and it seems to provide much more useful actions while in the air.
You also mention the momentum button increasing fall speed, in my experience though, most of the time you’re not moving straight up or down in Halo, and it strikes me that you’d be most inclined to use this when you’re already moving laterally (think jumping off a platform running, or being launched by a mancanon). I also think that being able to fall straight down - negating lateral momentum - would be a more intuitive and useful mechanic for the most part, so if this was really something 343 wanted to allow players to do, it strikes me that the solution would be more along the lines of slightly modifying fall speed based on lateral movement speed. So in order to fall down faster, you boost backwards to cancel your lateral movement, and then naturally fall faster. There’s even a pretty easy way this kind of mechanic could be explained in the lore. It also strikes me that having the same button make the player fall faster and jump higher would be an unintuitive and kind of questionable gameplay mechanic, and it strikes me that if you want to have two different modes of jumping, it’s better to tie the jump height to something like “charging the jump” by holding down the jump button. But I don’t really think this is a good solution, and would much prefer that 343 just increase the jump height by changing base movement properties, if it has to be changed.
I also don’t understand why you’d want to go for a second jump - why not just move the jump hitbox up a bit, animate it smoothly, and have one jump? It just strikes me as adding a feature that doesn’t really add anything at all, except maybe for the custom map scene where this could be abused and turned into some kind of wall-kicking feature (which also just strikes me as not very Halo). The other sort of solution I can see if you don’t want to resize the jump hitbox is having a lot of angled ledges, at heights comparable to the apex of a Spartan’s jump, and allowing Spartan’s that are going faster to sort of slide up the angled ledge, but this is already in Halo (most notably Halo 5, because Thrust is really useful for this kind of ledge), and isn’t often done in map design (although there’s a strong argument to be made that it’s not used because Clamber sort of invalidates its existence).
It just strikes me that overall, the thruster in Halo 5 is a solution to almost all of these problems, and that it’s a more intuitive way of playing the game.
> 2592250499807011;1881:
> > 2535436974294570;1880:
> > if 343 listen to the community
>
> This has been their problem since they were created. They. Don’t. Listen.
>
> If they ever change that, maybe halo can be great again.
>
>
>
>
> > it’s literally impossible to defend sprint
>
> 9 years of discussion on the topic has led me to this conclusion as well.
>
> Just a question if 343 will change course and start listening
I think there’s a lot of very substantial evidence that 343 actually do listen. Just look at how much they backtracked from what they did with Infinity Slayer in Halo 4. They split the game into two halves, brought back equal starts and didn’t have Equipment or Armour Abilities. Halo 5 was, at least in my eyes, a very clear move in the right direction gameplay-wise, even though the Jetpack in Reach and 4 was my favourite element of the sandboxes in both games. We ended up getting a UNSC air vehicle in Halo 5, Forge has been improved so substantially since Reach that it’s difficult to put into words, and the levels in the campaign in Halo 5 were large and open - something that people complained about Halo 4 not having enough of. IMO, Halo 5 was just an unlucky victim of its writing. Almost every aspect of the campaign that was bad, can be traced back to the writing.
Obviously Halo 5 wasn’t perfect for you - it had advanced movement after all - but they definitely took a lot of the criticism that Halo 4 had levelled at it and tried to make a better game. They just didn’t commit to ditching the new stuff as much as you’d’ve liked.
Also I think it’s completely uncharitable to argue that there’s “literally no defence” that people can offer for sprint. There’s just none that you find convincing, and for 9 years, I found argument against sprint convincing either. And although I now begrudgingly agree that it’s probably bad for competitive Halo, or Halo, the skill based game, I still believe it’s a positive for Halo as a party game, for example. You could also argue that there’s “literally no defence” for Halo 4’s plot, and staunchly believe it to the point of there being no argument that could convince you otherwise. But there’s going to be a crowd on the other side with the exact same view of your arguments against it.
It’s far more accurate to say there’s no defence of sprint that is congruent with your ideals for the series. It’s simply untrue to say there’s no defence for sprint, and it seems less than honest.
And ultimately, there will never be unanimous decision about any of this. Because sprint isn’t “objectively” bad for Halo. Very few things are.
> 2533274956613084;1894:
> > 2533274945422049;1893:
> > > 2533274825830455;1892:
> > > > 2533274945422049;1891:
> > > > The toggeling of extra- momentum by a button is there to give the player the ability to achive some noteworthy momentum without environmental objects ( which would be cool too) like mancanons. achiving this momentum just by walking would make the movement too wonky. although there should be some aim- penalties for player toggled momentum, which environmental momentum shouldn’t have.
> > >
> > > …
thanks for for the headsup.
i forgot to mention the following:
sprint: weapon lowering or no reticule
the angle problem is valid. holding down the button insted of tapping it to start sprinting would fix that
the other mechanics rely on character ballistics. like jumping does. it doesn’t cancle your current vectors of force, but adds another one. (if you jump forwards and thrust backwards you will move backwards very slowly. to fall straight down you would have to aply a backwards and downwads thrust (press backwards+crouch+momentum ), completely negating your forward and upwsrd momentum)
melee strenght and fall damage scale scale diferently. if you land on top of somebody the falldamage is is shared.
the reason why this stuff is not backed into the base base movenent is because this would just stretch the maps, negating the mobility gains. the proposed momentum ability is situational and has a time limit. therefor it can be applied when when needed but not always (last ditch evasion, trick jumping, trick melee, moving to sides sides of intrest a bit bit faster without heavily influencing the moment to moment gunplay). therefore the map scaling scaling can be largely kept.
The main map scaling stays the same, but the range of structure size increases. Normal scale areas (because the core movement is key again), larger scale areas (possible through the extra momentum), or even smaller scale areas (possible to the bounciness of momentum)
custom settings should of course be applicable to this. the custom game results could be glorious.
Personally I just hope they keep sprint if they’re removing all of the newer mechanics. Wouldn’t make too much sense for a super soldier not being able to run.
> 2533274887895476;1897:
> Personally I just hope they keep sprint if they’re removing all of the newer mechanics. Wouldn’t make too much sense for a super soldier not being able to run.
It doesnt make sense that they cant run and shoot at same time. In old halos u run same speed without sprint but they can aim and shoot while running because they are super soldiers
> 2535423661615819;1898:
> > 2533274887895476;1897:
> > Personally I just hope they keep sprint if they’re removing all of the newer mechanics. Wouldn’t make too much sense for a super soldier not being able to run.
>
> It doesnt make sense that they cant run and shoot at same time. In old halos u run same speed without sprint but they can aim and shoot while running because they are super soldiers
i think a very low powered sprint with a limited duration and and slow turning could remain ingame to be be able to move through not fought over ove sections if you don’t have a vehicle or mancanon at hand. this could shorten the time between engagements without truely affecting the map scaling and and moment to moment gameplay.
> 2533274945422049;1899:
> this could shorten the time between engagements without truely affecting the map scaling
This is kind of a pointless statement, because so could regular sprint, if the maps just weren’t scaled. But the whole point is that the maps are scaled precisely because you don’t want shorter time between encounters. If you did want shorter times between encounters, you could just make the maps more compact, or increase the base movement speed without any need to introduce any kind of sprint mechanic. Sprint is completely unnecessary to accomplish what you’re talking about. There are better ways.
Also, the whole limited duration and slow turn rate thing is a bad idea because it would feel horrible to use. Putting aside the fact that trying to make sprint work is from the beginning a doomed idea, there’s a reason sprint was made infinite: if nothing else, the mechanic should at least feel good to use. Having to slow down every fiver seconds is not fun. It doesn’t make you feel powerful. Same goes for movement that feels like ice skating. The player needs simple controls that feel responsive and don’t have arbitrary restrictions. If you’re worried about fixing the issues with sprint, there’s a very simple solution: don’t have sprint.
> 2533274956613084;1895:
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> > > if 343 listen to the community
> >
> > This has been their problem since they were created. They. Don’t. Listen.
> >
> > If they ever change that, maybe halo can be great again.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > it’s literally impossible to defend sprint
> >
> > 9 years of discussion on the topic has led me to this conclusion as well.
> >
> > Just a question if 343 will change course and start listening
>
> It’s far more accurate to say there’s no defence of sprint that is congruent with your ideals for the series. It’s simply untrue to say there’s no defence for sprint, and it seems less than honest.
>
> And ultimately, there will never be unanimous decision about any of this. Because sprint isn’t “objectively” bad for Halo. Very few things are.
If sprint isn’t objectively bad, make an argument for why it’s objectively good. Some of you guys seem quite upset about the idea that objectivity exists in entertainment, but you seem unable to make any actual arguments for your own preferences. My claim of objectiveness on this is largely because there are a variety of arguments to be made for why sprint does NOT work with halo’s fundamental design principles, but I’ve not really ever seen arguments for why it does. If there were strong arguments on each side, I’d be willing to concede the matter to preference. But when only one side has strong arguments, that tends to suggest to me that the other side is just wrong.
You assert it’s not bad, without making any arguments for why it’s good. I suspect that if you make the attempt, you will resort to some kind of “but i liiiiiike it” or “halo is too slowwwwwww without sprint” which are not arguments for why it’s good game design.
I don’t think it’s very unreasonable to ask the pro-sprint crowd why sprint and/or movement abilities make for good halo game design. I’m still waiting for the answers.
And as above, I’m thinking about arena, not warzone - warzone has very different design elements and sprint is fine there.
And when 70% of your core community tells you repeatedly “I don’t want this in the game” and you do it anyway, I’m not sure that counts as listening.