The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> 2535444702990491;158:
> How boring and redundant though… Just like the sprint debate which should die where it belongs in the Halo 5 forums where it started.

I guess you haven’t been around the forums for too long. The debate started on the Bungie.net Halo Reach forum in 2010. It’s as old as sprint, and it will be around as long as sprint is, whether you like it or not.

> 2535444702990491;158:
> The element of sprint is vital to remain in Halo because it enables players with options by empowering them to move faster than a boring walking pace.

With what options? As far as I can tell, it only limits the player. Instead of being able to run at maximum speed while shooting, the player has to choose whether they want to be able to run at maximum speed, or whether they want to be able to shoot, which is the only option sprint enables (or rather, forces). By all means, feel free to give examples of more options that sprint enables.

Also, just FYI, the “walking speed” in the original trilogy is about 6.86 meters per second. For context, a typical jog is about 2.8, and the world record 5,000 meter run is about 6.6. The average speed of the racewalking world record was about 4.35 meters per second. So, there is no sense in which the base movement speed qualifies as “walking speed”.

> 2535444702990491;158:
> Bungie added sprint to Halo in a positive light, adding this - “Feel the need? Engage this Ability for a burst of speed that’s great for quickly covering ground or escaping sticky situations.” Bungie clearly felt sprint would add a compelling sense of immersion to the player, which was definitely needed and long overdue in Halo to empower players to feel more like Spartans. Because sprint was so well received and effective at accomplishing Halo’s creators’ intent, sprint has stuck around in every Halo title since Reach.

Evidently, sprint was not too well recived, since it is the single most debated gameplay mechanic in the history of Halo. You should also consider that sprint has been significantly nerfed since its introduction in Reach, largely because it was “great for [. . .] escaping sticky situations”.

> 2535444702990491;158:
> You know why Spartans don’t just lumber around at one BMS in books and movies?? Because it would be incredibly bulky and boring to see Spartans lumbering around like slow moving robotic giants instead of being the agile, efficient, and quick killing machines that Spartans are supposed to be in Halo.

You’re misjudging your audience if you think they will be impressed by arguments based on lore. Let me give you a glimpse into the mind of someone who dislikes sprint: gameplay goes ahead of lore, always. There are great many things Spartans can do in the lore, but few of those things make for good game mechanics.

> 2535444702990491;158:
> Bottom line- the alternative of having just one BMS is an antiquated gaming experience where players get bored when covering distances on maps. As a result very few gaming developers are still hanging on to this older way of thinking in the modern gaming experience.

There is nothing inherently about having to put one’s weapon down in order to move at maximum speed that makes it any less boring than the alternative. Rather, it’s about how you build the maps, and how you sell the sense of speed to the player.

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> 2535444702990491;158:
> > 2533274829873463;155:
> > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> >
> > Or they could just remove sprint then increase base movement speed. H5 was already unbalanced as it is with speed boost, sword combined.
>
> How boring and redundant though… Just like the sprint debate which should die where it belongs in the Halo 5 forums where it started. But since the same old topic has been duplicated in these forums here then I’ll add my piece to the debate.
>
> The element of sprint is vital to remain in Halo because it enables players with options by empowering them to move faster than a boring walking pace.
>
> Bungie added sprint to Halo in a positive light, adding this - “Feel the need? Engage this Ability for a burst of speed that’s great for quickly covering ground or escaping sticky situations.” Bungie clearly felt sprint would add a compelling sense of immersion to the player, which was definitely needed and long overdue in Halo to empower players to feel more like Spartans. Because sprint was so well received and effective at accomplishing Halo’s creators’ intent, sprint has stuck around in every Halo title since Reach.
>
> Sprint adds unique elements to the Halo gaming experience. As stated on Halopedia, “Sprint is a gameplay mechanic that enables the player to move faster than usual. When active the player can run twice as fast as walking speed, but cannot use their weapons. Sprint can be used for evasion, flanking, or speedrunning, and has been in every Halo FPS after Halo: Reach.” Spartans are super soldiers and there’s no good reason they should be able to “beat feet,” and book it by running when the situation demands it… Just as it has been written in countless Halo books and lore up to this point, along with the portrayal of Spartans on the big screen.
>
> You know why Spartans don’t just lumber around at one BMS in books and movies?? Because it would be incredibly bulky and boring to see Spartans lumbering around like slow moving robotic giants instead of being the agile, efficient, and quick killing machines that Spartans are supposed to be in Halo.
>
> Bottom line- the alternative of having just one BMS is an antiquated gaming experience where players get bored when covering distances on maps. As a result very few gaming developers are still hanging on to this older way of thinking in the modern gaming experience.

Literally the two most played FPS games this year don’t use sprint.

There was a period when COD mania swept through the genre and all creativity and original thought was obliterated. That time is at an end and developers are actually starting to create games based on what works for thier game again. Hence, tons of FPS games dropping sprint again.

Having to drop to a lower speed in order to shoot in a game with kill times over 1 full second just sucks. Period.

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> 2535444702990491;158:
> > 2533274829873463;155:
> > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> >
> > Or they could just remove sprint then increase base movement speed. H5 was already unbalanced as it is with speed boost, sword combined.
>
> How boring and redundant though… Just like the sprint debate which should die where it belongs in the Halo 5 forums where it started. But since the same old topic has been duplicated in these forums here then I’ll add my piece to the debate.
>
> The element of sprint is vital to remain in Halo because it enables players with options by empowering them to move faster than a boring walking pace.

You’re missing the point, clearly you’re not getting what I mean. Increasing the base speed can make the sprint obsolete. The problen with sprint is it gets tiresome getting shot at then suddenly being halted in my path, it can be stressful when combining sprint with sword. Increasing the base speed with no sprint means no cheap getaways, it means the rader can be sort of useful again but the rader in h5 was poorly designed to pick up people sprinting.

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> > 2535444702990491;158:
> > > 2533274829873463;155:
> > > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
>
> You’re missing the point, clearly you’re not getting what I mean. Increasing the base speed can make the sprint obsolete. The problen with sprint is it gets tiresome getting shot at then suddenly being halted in my path, it can be stressful when combining sprint with sword. Increasing the base speed with no sprint means no cheap getaways, it means the rader can be sort of useful again but the rader in h5 was poorly designed to pick up people sprinting.

I agree, and it seems like a fair way to have the best of both worlds. People allways say they want to move faster, so just give them that without a button they need to hit.

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> 2533274889489936;2:
> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

i like sprint and thrust, but spartan charge and ground pound are annoying… especially spartan charge

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> 2533274889282194;159:
> > 2535449076192416;9:
> > > 2533274794139417;8:
> > > I’ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I can’t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If that’s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> >
> > What about the slow movement of CE?
>
> I don’t know if you remember ce but that was not slow by any means. I’ve played halo 5 for long periods of time and then switched to ce to play custom games with friends on mcc and was shocked at how fast I was moving, especially noticeable in smaller maps.

That’s what I was trying to convey to him. He specifically stated that he didn’t like how slow H3 was, and wanted spartan abilities to stay, so I told him to instead think of how fast-paced CE was, even without the spartan abilities, to show him that lack of sprint doesn’t necessarily mean the game will be slow-paced.

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> > 2533274829873463;163:
> > > 2535444702990491;158:
> > > > 2533274829873463;155:
> > > > > 2533274889489936;2:
> > > > > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
> >
> > You’re missing the point, clearly you’re not getting what I mean. Increasing the base speed can make the sprint obsolete. The problen with sprint is it gets tiresome getting shot at then suddenly being halted in my path, it can be stressful when combining sprint with sword. Increasing the base speed with no sprint means no cheap getaways, it means the rader can be sort of useful again but the rader in h5 was poorly designed to pick up people sprinting.
>
> I agree, and it seems like a fair way to have the best of both worlds. People allways say they want to move faster, so just give them that without a button they need to hit.

Exactly plus the sprint system isn’t needed but I don’t mind keeping the climbing since it was sort of helpful.

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> 2533274979619629;165:
> > 2533274889489936;2:
> > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
>
> i like sprint and thrust, but spartan charge and ground pound are annoying… especially spartan charge

Yeah sprint and thrust add a sense of what it would actually feel like to play as a Spartan in Halo. It would be a tragedy for 343i to cater to a few outspoken fans in these forums outright demanding them to turn the clock back and revert backwards to an older Halo experience. One BMS is so 2001, and while it was great for older Halos the newer titles continue to benefit in so many ways by keeping sprint.

That said, Spartan charge and ground pound can definitely go but I hope they decide to keep the clambering ability. It’s a ton of fun to have the option to explore maps with the ability to crouch, walk, run, and grab into ledges to pull yourself up.

I get where 343i was trying to go when they recently added in the Spartan charge and ground pound but those things ended up feeling restrictive and odd; as those two things were just sorta clunky and certainly unrealistic. Also in Halo 5 the Spartan charge felt unbalanced in combat. It’d be nice to at least see these things tweaked if they do stay in future Halo titles, but if they do keep those newer abilities the way they are then I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

All in all, I think the bigger picture here is that we as fans should temper our expectations from the creators of Halo. They’ve been doing a great job with the evolution of this great series and I’m sure they’ll
continue down that path with Halo Infinite.

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> 2535449076192416;166:
> > 2533274889282194;159:
> > > 2535449076192416;9:
> > > > 2533274794139417;8:
> > > > I’ve been playing halo since the OG xbox but if sprint gone so am I. I can’t go back to the slow movement of halo 3. If that’s the case good bye halo I loved u so much
> > >
> > > What about the slow movement of CE?
> >
> > I don’t know if you remember ce but that was not slow by any means. I’ve played halo 5 for long periods of time and then switched to ce to play custom games with friends on mcc and was shocked at how fast I was moving, especially noticeable in smaller maps.
>
> That’s what I was trying to convey to him. He specifically stated that he didn’t like how slow H3 was, and wanted spartan abilities to stay, so I told him to instead think of how fast-paced CE was, even without the spartan abilities, to show him that lack of sprint doesn’t necessarily mean the game will be slow-paced.

Oh I didn’t pick up on that. You have a good point though, if we had ce speed sprint wouldn’t really be necessary

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This whole returning to its roots, boots on the ground, notion is a trend. Just like battle royals. Just a trend to satiate peoples at the moment desires.
I like the enhanced mobility, sprint, slide, thrust, clamber are all effective tools to exploit during gunfights. Shakes up the statis quo by being creative with the sandbox it has created. Gunfights can last much longer and be more competitive than just who shot who first, and who has a better line of sight.
Simply retuning to its roots puts the franchise as a whole, at a disadvantage, I feel. Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.
And I know, enhanced movement was a trend, but rather than just kick to the curb, use it to be different. I can see people’s adversity towards sprint, and ADS, but for me, it’s more engaging combat. Sprint allows for quicker transversal of the designed maps, and while most maps were oriented to fit Spartan abilities, having them available allows player to get creative with the mechanics. Its doesn’t punish them for almost getting somewhere. Its gives people a second chance to stick that jump, or get that saving headshot, or even miss that critical shot. To
To me, mobility improves the gameplay mechanics and the MP sandbox. I know people are entitled to thier opinion. And I understand everyone has an idea of what makes Halo great. These are just my ideas is all.

171

Yeah I’m sick of sprint, spartan charge, and ground pound. I’m hoping its a much faster base movement that allows you to keep your gun up at all times. Thrust and clamber I don’t mind, although I would prefer that they just design the maps so clamber isn’t needed.

I just think a simpler game play that’s easy to learn, hard to master is more unique and better for halo than the current hard to learn, hard to master model.

172

If Infinite does have an open world area, I can understand sprint being necessary for that specific mode. In multiplayer, I really hope it’s just classic Halo with no shoulder-charging noobs who sprint around a wall and mow you down before you can even recover. ADS, sprint, ground pound, should all be removed in favor of classic gameplay. 343 has seen how “well” sprinkling unoriginal abilities from other popular FPS’s into Halo has worked for them thus far… if they don’t support classic movement whatsoever and just continue to dilute the classic formula there’s a good chance Infinite won’t live up to the hype and die off like Halo 4 did in terms of MP very fast.

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> 2533274815543309;170:
> This whole returning to its roots, boots on the ground, notion is a trend. Just like battle royals. Just a trend to satiate peoples at the moment desires.
> I like the enhanced mobility, sprint, slide, thrust, clamber are all effective tools to exploit during gunfights. Shakes up the statis quo by being creative with the sandbox it has created. Gunfights can last much longer and be more competitive than just who shot who first, and who has a better line of sight.
> Simply retuning to its roots puts the franchise as a whole, at a disadvantage, I feel. Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.
> And I know, enhanced movement was a trend, but rather than just kick to the curb, use it to be different. I can see people’s adversity towards sprint, and ADS, but for me, it’s more engaging combat. Sprint allows for quicker transversal of the designed maps, and while most maps were oriented to fit Spartan abilities, having them available allows player to get creative with the mechanics. Its doesn’t punish them for almost getting somewhere. Its gives people a second chance to stick that jump, or get that saving headshot, or even miss that critical shot. To
> To me, mobility improves the gameplay mechanics and the MP sandbox. I know people are entitled to thier opinion. And I understand everyone has an idea of what makes Halo great. These are just my ideas is all.

Very well thought out and solid arguments for 343i to continue improving the franchise in Infinite from where they left off with Halo 5.

The mobility system as a whole did indeed add so many unique and invaluable encounters to the combat in Halo 5, as you summed it up pretty well in your post here.

I also think the mobility in Halo 5 was pretty good, albeit maybe Spartan charge and ground pound could be tweaked a little. Keeping sprint, thrust, and clamber are a must for Infinite, and if anything adding to the mobility system would improve and enhance Halo versus trying to take away from it.

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> 2535444702990491;173:
> > 2533274815543309;170:
> > This whole returning to its roots, boots on the ground, notion is a trend. Just like battle royals. Just a trend to satiate peoples at the moment desires.
> > I like the enhanced mobility, sprint, slide, thrust, clamber are all effective tools to exploit during gunfights. Shakes up the statis quo by being creative with the sandbox it has created. Gunfights can last much longer and be more competitive than just who shot who first, and who has a better line of sight.
> > Simply retuning to its roots puts the franchise as a whole, at a disadvantage, I feel. Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.
> > And I know, enhanced movement was a trend, but rather than just kick to the curb, use it to be different. I can see people’s adversity towards sprint, and ADS, but for me, it’s more engaging combat. Sprint allows for quicker transversal of the designed maps, and while most maps were oriented to fit Spartan abilities, having them available allows player to get creative with the mechanics. Its doesn’t punish them for almost getting somewhere. Its gives people a second chance to stick that jump, or get that saving headshot, or even miss that critical shot. To
> > To me, mobility improves the gameplay mechanics and the MP sandbox. I know people are entitled to thier opinion. And I understand everyone has an idea of what makes Halo great. These are just my ideas is all.
>
> Very well thought out and solid arguments for 343i to continue improving the franchise in Infinite from where they left off with Halo 5.
>
> The mobility system as a whole did indeed add so many unique and invaluable encounters to the combat in Halo 5, as you summed it up pretty well in your post here.
>
> I also think the mobility in Halo 5 was pretty good, albeit maybe Spartan charge and ground pound could be tweaked a little. Keeping sprint, thrust, and clamber are a must for Infinite, and if anything adding to the mobility system would improve and enhance Halo then trying to take away from it.

I know 343 hinted at the notion of rj9emoving spartan charge and ground pound in HCS modes. I wouldn’t be opposed to it either. They’re cool mechanics for maybe Campaign, in in MP, it’s kind of a gimmick.
I can see the argument for maybe a faster base movement and removal of ADS on most weapons. Leaving zoom/smart scope on BR’s and Sniper Rifles makes sense, those are already scoped weapons. The AR and SMG weren’t weapons that featured optics from the get go. So i understand some individuals dislike for this feature.

I personally with the removal of Spartan Charge, and Ground Pound. Cool in theory but in gameplay it does somewhat cheapen player experience.

175

i dont mind sprint and climbing but the rest of the abilites i dont care for, even when i played halo ce, 2, and 3, i didnt like the over shield and invis power ups. equiptment in halo 3 however, thats a different story. i do enjoy the equiptment

and dual weild… oh how i miss you ;_;

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> 2533274796325288;175:
> i dont mind sprint and climbing but the rest of the abilites i dont care for, even when i played halo ce, 2, and 3, i didnt like the over shield and invis power ups.

I didnt mind power pick ups too much. I loathe armor lock from Reach.
Maybe, instead of thrust you can have the option of evade, like in Reach. Only downfall would be the inability of shooting while doing so.

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> 2533274796325288;175:
> i dont mind sprint and climbing but the rest of the abilites i dont care for, even when i played halo ce, 2, and 3, i didnt like the over shield and invis power ups. equiptment in halo 3 however, thats a different story. i do enjoy the equiptment
>
> and dual weild… oh how i miss you ;_;

Oh yeah, dual wielding was so much fun. And I’m with you insofar to keep sprint and thrust for sure!

But I personally didn’t care for the equipment in Halo 3 because it was awkward with the button location on the controller so I never really got used to using it. But really, you didn’t like overshield and invis? To each their own, I ‘spoze… :wink:

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> 2533274815543309;170:
> This whole returning to its roots, boots on the ground, notion is a trend. Just like battle royals. Just a trend to satiate peoples at the moment desires.
> I like the enhanced mobility, sprint, slide, thrust, clamber are all effective tools to exploit during gunfights. Shakes up the statis quo by being creative with the sandbox it has created. Gunfights can last much longer and be more competitive than just who shot who first, and who has a better line of sight.
> Simply retuning to its roots puts the franchise as a whole, at a disadvantage, I feel. Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.
> And I know, enhanced movement was a trend, but rather than just kick to the curb, use it to be different. I can see people’s adversity towards sprint, and ADS, but for me, it’s more engaging combat. Sprint allows for quicker transversal of the designed maps, and while most maps were oriented to fit Spartan abilities, having them available allows player to get creative with the mechanics. Its doesn’t punish them for almost getting somewhere. Its gives people a second chance to stick that jump, or get that saving headshot, or even miss that critical shot. To
> To me, mobility improves the gameplay mechanics and the MP sandbox. I know people are entitled to thier opinion. And I understand everyone has an idea of what makes Halo great. These are just my ideas is all.

“Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.”

Uh…

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> 2535444702990491;177:
> > 2533274796325288;175:
> > i dont mind sprint and climbing but the rest of the abilites i dont care for, even when i played halo ce, 2, and 3, i didnt like the over shield and invis power ups. equiptment in halo 3 however, thats a different story. i do enjoy the equiptment
> >
> > and dual weild… oh how i miss you ;_;
>
> Oh yeah, dual wielding was so much fun. And I’m with you insofar to keep sprint and thrust for sure!
>
> But I personally didn’t care for the equipment in Halo 3 because it was awkward with the button location on the controller so I never really got used to using it. But really, you didn’t like overshield and invis? To each their own, I ‘spoze… :wink:

Very telling that the big H5 supporter in this thread has played less than 50 games of h5.

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> 2533274815543309;170:
> This whole returning to its roots, boots on the ground, notion is a trend. Just like battle royals. Just a trend to satiate peoples at the moment desires.

Considering it’s what many people have been wanting since 2010, classic gameplay would be long overdue.

> 2533274815543309;170:
> I like the enhanced mobility, sprint, slide, thrust, clamber are all effective tools to exploit during gunfights. Shakes up the statis quo by being creative with the sandbox it has created. Gunfights can last much longer and be more competitive than just who shot who first, and who has a better line of sight.

Shakes up the status quo? In 2015, advanced mobility was the status quo. You can try to paint it as some creative pursuit, but it was pretty blatant and uninnovative adherence to trends.

As far as competitiveness is concerned, the whole Spartan Ability system was a mixed bag. For the most part, the abilities were pretty shallow, and many of them were detrimental to competitive play. The only saving grace was the possibility of saving the abilities, which created for some interesting jumps. On the flipside, however, due to the massive distances players were able to cover with fairly basic tricks, I’m not sure how useful those interesting jumps actually were in gameplay. For the most part, the increased freedom of movement, especially Clamber, significantly decreased the skill required for moment to moment movement.

I would also like to see evidence to support the claim that gunfights in Halo 5 last longer than in classic Halo.

> 2533274815543309;170:
> Simply retuning to its roots puts the franchise as a whole, at a disadvantage, I feel. Following a trend for the sake of following a trend doesn’t speak well for a franchise. It’s just copying what others do.

Yet, here you are, praising the advanced movement of Halo 5. Literally what every single triple-A shooter was trying to do in the 2013–2016 time frame. Then there are of course Halo 4 and Reach, which were still full on in the CoD bandwagon. If we’re to believe you, then Halo has been in the rut for the past eight years. Coincidentally, many people would be inclined to agree with that assessment.

> 2533274815543309;170:
> Its doesn’t punish them for almost getting somewhere. Its gives people a second chance to stick that jump, or get that saving headshot, or even miss that critical shot.

This is an exceptional case you made for getting rid of Spartan Abilities. I don’t want the game to hold my hand. I want to make mistakes and learn from them. I want a game that, rather than giving me crutches, drives me to learn to play properly.