The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > 2535437031951215;1538:
> > I’m hoping that with the new looking classic art style that means the return of classic movement too.
>
> Frome what I have gathered is that the new old look is the unsc learning from new and old the armor chief is waring is a gen 3 armor system not gen 1 or gen2 but it will have the movement of gen 2 (halo4 and 5) and the style of gen 1 (halo ce 2 3 and reach) and that is probably the same mentality for the changes in alot of the other things in halo infinite

Man, that would totally be something 343 would do. Show us classic looking Halo to bait us and then pull out the advanced movement again…

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> 2533274836967617;1541:
> 1. They go full “Advanced” mobility or full classic gameplay. But this would alienate a significant portion of the community.
>
> 2. They go full “Advanced” mobility and have a set of classic playlists. While not a terrible idea on paper, the amount of work that would be needed for this would be quite the under taking for 343.
>
> 3. They have a newish style of gameplay that retains some of H5s mechanics and gut the rest to fit a more ‘classic’ feel. (I.E; keep thrusters, clamber, stabilizers and ditch Sprint, charge and slide. Faster BMS w/ wider FoV.)

I don’t see why it has to be either full classic or retain some of the Halo 5 mechanics. There is a fourth option that’s historically the most propable: the Spartan Ability system is completely revamped, with most if not all of the existing abilities removed and replaced with something else. This could go any number of ways. 343i could go for gameplay where Spartan Abilities still play a very prominent role, but there is a different perhaps slightly smaller set of them. Or they could try to reconcile more with classic gameplay, leaving only one or two carefully chosen abilities (neither of which necessarily exists in Halo 5) that are more faithful to the principles of classic movement, but still retain some of the more active feel of the Halo 5 movement.

I say this is historically the most probable, because Halo is historically really bad with sticking with new mechanics. Equipment lasted for one game with only Bubble Shield making its way into the Halo Reach Drop Shield. Armor Abilities lasted for two games, with a major redesign between Halo Reach and 4 with respect to what’s included. Loadouts lasted for two games. Every mechanic introduced in Halo 4 apart from Thruster Pack lasted for one game. Halo is not a franchise of consistency, and 343i in particular is not a studio of consistency. They’re in a somewhat similar situation with Halo 5 as they were with Halo 4, the announcement had a completely different vibe to their previous announcements, and the trailer contained some classic themes. With all that in mind, I think there’s a reasonable chance that we’re getting yet another major gameplay redesign, that will yet again try to be more faithful to the spirit classic Halo (keeping in mind that Halo 5 was an attempt to be more faithful than Halo 4).

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> 2533274825830455;1543:
> > 2533274836967617;1541:
> >
>
> I don’t see why it has to be either full classic or retain some of the Halo 5 mechanics. There is a fourth option that’s historically the most propable: the Spartan Ability system is completely revamped, with most if not all of the existing abilities removed and replaced with something else. This could go any number of ways. 343i could go for gameplay where Spartan Abilities still play a very prominent role, but there is a different perhaps slightly smaller set of them. Or they could try to reconcile more with classic gameplay, leaving only one or two carefully chosen abilities (neither of which necessarily exists in Halo 5) that are more faithful to the principles of classic movement, but still retain some of the more active feel of the Halo 5 movement.
>
> I say this is historically the most probable, because Halo is historically really bad with sticking with new mechanics. Equipment lasted for one game with only Bubble Shield making its way into the Halo Reach Drop Shield. Armor Abilities lasted for two games, with a major redesign between Halo Reach and 4 with respect to what’s included. Loadouts lasted for two games. Every mechanic introduced in Halo 4 apart from Thruster Pack lasted for one game. Halo is not a franchise of consistency, and 343i in particular is not a studio of consistency. They’re in a somewhat similar situation with Halo 5 as they were with Halo 4, the announcement had a completely different vibe to their previous announcements, and the trailer contained some classic themes. With all that in mind, I think there’s a reasonable chance that we’re getting yet another major gameplay redesign, that will yet again try to be more faithful to the spirit classic Halo (keeping in mind that Halo 5 was an attempt to be more faithful than Halo 4).

Well, there are indeed more options & new possibilities.
To make compromises (or not) we have to ask ourselves what “classic” or “advanced” movement is in the first place. What aspects of the first formular do people actually enjoy? What is the benefit of the second formular? How does it all fit into the Halo Sandbox? What made the first formular so succesful in the first place?

Let’s break it down to a few points

First formular - One movement speed - Run & Gun gameplay (You don’t have to let your weapons down to reach max speed, max jump etc.) - Movement & Combat is not seperated - More compact maps - Low complexity (Base game) / High Depth (Unique Maps, Map interactions)----

Second formular (I’ll just copy a paragraph of one of my posts)

  • 2 gear movement speed - High complexity (Base game) / Low Depth (every map has to be designed around “advanced movement”, which leads to repetitive gameplay) - Increased bullet magnetism (messes up the complete Sandbox of Halo, because everytime you don’t sprint, you’re more wounderable - you basicially play the “wrong” style, when you don’t sprint. This may not cause a problem for FPS like COD (low TTK) but it surely does for Halo (Focus von Precision Weapons & Higher TTK) - Strechet out maps (additional areas to compensate the 2 gear movement speed) - Run or gun gameplay, which means - You’re not able to shoot at top speed - You’re not able to reload at top speed - You’re not able to dodge & retreat at top speed (which was essential to fight of the flood & the brutes) - You’re not able to jump on highest positions you are supposed to do without clambering. - You’re not even able to recover at top speed. - You’re locked in an animation at top speed, which means that your FOV is very limited, this leads to less engagementsThis is why compromises can not be made in the current form, the second formular is the exact opposite. The real question here is - which of these 2 styles is the real “advanced” movement?
    The second formular may look more “cool” or “fluid” but the first formular seems to be more action packed, focused, more variable and faster paced the way the base game was implemented in the first three installments.
    I forgot the BMS for each game, the only thing I know that most games have the same BMS (reach beeing a bit slower, guardians beeing a bit faster)
    The question is - what is more important for the first formular? The one gear movement speed, or the fact that you almost never have to lower your weapons? And what is so important about the second formular? The fact that you had a 2 gear movement system?

What if your BMS would .depend on the weapons you actually hold in your hands? Meaning that you would be slightly faster (when you carry lighter weapons like pistols etc.) or slightly slower (when you carry power weapons like SPNKR etc)
This is an alternative for sprint without letting your weapons down, but it would eventually still mess up the first formular, because the single BMS would not exist. I’m not saying that this is the solution (I don’t even think that this is a good one), what I’m trying to say is that there are other ways to make compromises. (If you feel the need to make one in the first place)

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i hope

> 2533274825830455;1543:
> > 2533274836967617;1541:
> > 1. They go full “Advanced” mobility or full classic gameplay. But this would alienate a significant portion of the community.
> >
> > 2. They go full “Advanced” mobility and have a set of classic playlists. While not a terrible idea on paper, the amount of work that would be needed for this would be quite the under taking for 343.
> >
> > 3. They have a newish style of gameplay that retains some of H5s mechanics and gut the rest to fit a more ‘classic’ feel. (I.E; keep thrusters, clamber, stabilizers and ditch Sprint, charge and slide. Faster BMS w/ wider FoV.)
>
> With all that in mind, I think there’s a reasonable chance that we’re getting yet another major gameplay redesign, that will yet again try to be more faithful to the spirit classic Halo

imho, to get this, the first two basic things are to remove sprint and thruster packs. They get too far from the classic feeling (Halo 1/2/3). Secondly, I would like to see H2 BR as a primary reference weapon in the competitive game.

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> 2533274874453277;1545:
> Secondly, I would like to see H2 BR as a primary reference weapon in the competitive game.

What is it with you fixation on the H2 BR? Why not have a weapon that takes a little more skill to use, or is it just about the visuals?

> 2535473481267884;1544:
>

We’ve been over this, months, if not years ago…big parts of the community knows about it and I’m sure 343 does too. It’s entirely up to them by now. Maybe they will try to win back fans of the old school Halo, or maybe they think having somewhat calssic art style is enough to make “us” forget that it’s not enough to look good, a game has to be fun as well…
On a side note: I’d always argue that one guns up all the time and no gameplay disrupting animations is more “fluid” then H5…

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> 2535473481267884;1544:
> The question is - what is more important for the first formular? The one gear movement speed, or the fact that you almost never have to lower your weapons? And what is so important about the second formular? The fact that you had a 2 gear movement system?

If you ask classic fans, it becomes evident that the crucial feature is being able to do things while moving at top speed, not having one movement mode (in fact crouching in classic Halo is already a separate movement mode from running). On the other hand, I’d argue that having your actions restricted at top speed is not at all relevant for advanced movement, and the presence or absence of sprint is entirely inconsequential to whether Halo has “advanced movement” or not. Same goes for being unable to shoot while Clambering. You almost never hear people defending sprint with “I like not being able to shoot while moving at maximum speed”. (In fact, the concept that sprint restricts movement is something fans of the mechanic aren’t usually even aware of.) The defense is always about speed or immersion, and you really have to twist their arm to get them comment on the restriction.

The labels “classic movement” and “advanced movement” are entirely arbitrary. You ask one classic fans and they’re completely adamant about having it exactly like Halo 3. You ask another and they say it’s not about specific mechanics but about principles, and you may even get them to admit that those principles don’t inherently contradict all conceivable “advanced” movement mechanics. When it comes to advanced movement, I don’t know how people define it. However, I’m sure that if you define classic movement via principles, and define advanced movement via principles, then it’s unlikely that the two definitions will contradict unless you intentionally make them to.

> 2535473481267884;1544:
> What if your BMS would .depend on the weapons you actually hold in your hands? Meaning that you would be slightly faster (when you carry lighter weapons like pistols etc.) or slightly slower (when you carry power weapons like SPNKR etc)
> This is an alternative for sprint without letting your weapons down, but it would eventually still mess up the first formular, because the single BMS would not exist. I’m not saying that this is the solution (I don’t even think that this is a good one), what I’m trying to say is that there are other ways to make compromises. (If you feel the need to make one in the first place)

I don’t think this is all that relevant to the issue at hand, since almost no one probably actually cares about how many movement speeds you have. Classic Halo fans care about not having their actions be restricted, and Halo 5 fans care about speed or immersion.

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> 2533274801973487;1546:
> > 2533274874453277;1545:
> > Secondly, I would like to see H2 BR as a primary reference weapon in the competitive game.
>
> What is it with you fixation on the H2 BR? Why not have a weapon that takes a little more skill to use, or is it just about the visuals?

Simply many years spent playing with a rifle in hand, from 2004 to 2015. With the magnum I can not have the same feeling and i’m more poor. Of course I speak for myself, for this I always add imho at the beginning of each post.

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> 2533274801973487;1546:
> We’ve been over this, months, if not years ago…big parts of the community knows about it and I’m sure 343 does too. It’s entirely up to them by now. Maybe they will try to win back fans of the old school Halo, or maybe they think having somewhat calssic art style is enough to make “us” forget that it’s not enough to look good, a game has to be fun as well…
> On a side note: I’d always argue that one guns up all the time and no gameplay disrupting animations is more “fluid” then H5…

I highly doubt that. The amount of ignorant comments like “I don’t like beeing slow / clunky / modern FPS have to have sprint / lore (which is not true anyway) / if you don’t like sprint simpy don’t sprint” is fascinating. I’m aware that you will never be able to convince everyone, but it’s not like that. There is still this huge misconception amongst the sprint supporters that we just wanna have some old stuff recycled.

To your last sentence: Indeed. That’s what we’re trying to communicate with the opposite site - I hope that at least some people understand our point of view.

> 2533274825830455;1547:
> > 2535473481267884;1544:
> >
>
> If you ask classic fans, it becomes evident that the crucial feature is being able to do things while moving at top speed, not having one movement mode (in fact crouching in classic Halo is already a separate movement mode from running). On the other hand, I’d argue that having your actions restricted at top speed is not at all relevant for advanced movement, and the presence or absence of sprint is entirely inconsequential to whether Halo has “advanced movement” or not. Same goes for being unable to shoot while Clambering. You almost never hear people defending sprint with “I like not being able to shoot while moving at maximum speed”. (In fact, the concept that sprint restricts movement is something fans of the mechanic aren’t usually even aware of.) The defense is always about speed or immersion, and you really have to twist their arm to get them comment on the restriction.
>
> The labels “classic movement” and “advanced movement” are entirely arbitrary. You ask one classic fans and they’re completely adamant about having it exactly like Halo 3. You ask another and they say it’s not about specific mechanics but about principles, and you may even get them to admit that those principles don’t inherently contradict all conceivable “advanced” movement mechanics. When it comes to advanced movement, I don’t know how people define it. However, I’m sure that if you define classic movement via principles, and define advanced movement via principles, then it’s unlikely that the two definitions will contradict unless you intentionally make them to.

I agree to most of your points, except this one sentence

**"You almost never hear people defending sprint with “I like not being able to shoot while moving at maximum speed”**The thing is - you do. I’ve seen a lot of times that this kind of restriction get’s defended. People like to call it trade off, for “beeing faster”
But as you mentioned in your next sentence - it seperates movement & combat, which is contradictory to the defend of sprint.

> 2533274825830455;1547:
> I don’t think this is all that relevant to the issue at hand, since almost no one probably actually cares about how many movement speeds you have. Classic Halo fans care about not having their actions be restricted, and Halo 5 fans care about speed or immersion.

I also think that not having my actions restricted is the most important aspect of “classic” Halo, but I hope that the responsible persons will acknowledge this one day too. Because your shields not recharging while sprinting like in H5 is not a “compromise” in my eyes.

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> 2535473481267884;1549:
> I agree to most of your points, except this one sentence
>
> **"You almost never hear people defending sprint with “I like not being able to shoot while moving at maximum speed”**The thing is - you do. I’ve seen a lot of times that this kind of restriction get’s defended. People like to call it trade off, for “beeing faster”
> But as you mentioned in your next sentence - it seperates movement & combat, which is contradictory to the defend of sprint.

But that’s the thing, they see it as a trade-off for being faster. They fundamentally can’t conceive sprint as a restriction to their maximum speed, and rather see it as an extra that needs to be restricted, or else it’s too powerful (from their perspective, not mine). They don’t like being unable to shoot while moving. They see it as a necessary restriction. The defense of the restriction is founded on a misunderstanding, not on any love of the restriction.

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> 2535473481267884;1549:
> I highly doubt that. The amount of ignorant comments like “I don’t like beeing slow / clunky / modern FPS have to have sprint / lore (which is not true anyway) / if you don’t like sprint simpy don’t sprint” is fascinating. I’m aware that you will never be able to convince everyone, but it’s not like that. There is still this huge misconception amongst the sprint supporters that we just wanna have some old stuff recycled.
>
> To your last sentence: Indeed. That’s what we’re trying to communicate with the opposite site - I hope that at least some people understand our point of view.

I know those problems, ignorance and lack of knowledge are strong to come by sometimes. Some people barely read a single comment on here. Drop a comment and never come back. But thats not really the point.
The thing is, it really doesn’t matter what people on waypoint know (or choose to not believe), it’s up to 343 to convince those that don’t understand the calssic movement philosophy/principle that it can still be fun if done right. We can spend years talking about the issues (I have…), if 343 is not willing to give this another shot, nothing will come out of it.
If you’re still motivated to go over this over and over again, feel free to do so, it won’t hurt :slight_smile:

> 2533274874453277;1548:
> Simply many years spent playing with a rifle in hand, from 2004 to 2015. With the magnum I can not have the same feeling and i’m more poor. Of course I speak for myself, for this I always add imho at the beginning of each post.

Yes, but is it about the BRs magnetism making it easier to pull off perfects and headshots or is it about seeing the classic BR design? Would you be happy with an improved version of the H3 BR? Say projectile but no spread with an modern netcode that does not drop so many shots?

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I’m firmly on the side of anti sprint, so keep in mind in this scenario sprint would not exist.

Call me a noob but I actually like thruster and clamber in their own right. Regardless of the fact that they take away skill, I just think they’re plain fun, especially in a social setting. They do add a different skill/strategy factor but I’m not going to be talking about that for now.

I like being able to get places more fluidly by being able to clamber onto ledges, and I like being able to jump around more freely with thrusters and timing it just right in a firefight. However I think having both of these abilities in the same game is a little too much. I think it’d be more interesting if you could have only one or the other. Being able to jump, then thrust, then clamber is a little much in my opinion in terms of being able to reach places with ease. If you only have thrust you can jump a far distance but you better do it right or you’ll either over shoot or run into a ledge and fall down. If you only have clamber you have more leeway in terms of landing a jump vertically and horizontally but you can’t cover bigger gaps by thrusting.

I personally want thrust back, it’s just fun to me but I get why some may not want it back.TL;DR: Thrust and clamber in the same game is OP, if they want to bring either back, make sure it’s either one and not both.

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> 2533274801973487;1551:
> > 2535473481267884;1549:
> > I highly doubt that. The amount of ignorant comments like “I don’t like beeing slow / clunky / modern FPS have to have sprint / lore (which is not true anyway) / if you don’t like sprint simpy don’t sprint” is fascinating. I’m aware that you will never be able to convince everyone, but it’s not like that. There is still this huge misconception amongst the sprint supporters that we just wanna have some old stuff recycled.
> >
> > To your last sentence: Indeed. That’s what we’re trying to communicate with the opposite site - I hope that at least some people understand our point of view.
>
> I know those problems, ignorance and lack of knowledge are strong to come by sometimes. Some people barely read a single comment on here. Drop a comment and never come back. But thats not really the point.
> The thing is, it really doesn’t matter what people on waypoint know (or choose to not believe), it’s up to 343 to convince those that don’t understand the calssic movement philosophy/principle that it can still be fun if done right. We can spend years talking about the issues (I have…), if 343 is not willing to give this another shot, nothing will come out of it.
> If you’re still motivated to go over this over and over again, feel free to do so, it won’t hurt :slight_smile:
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274874453277;1548:
> > Simply many years spent playing with a rifle in hand, from 2004 to 2015. With the magnum I can not have the same feeling and i’m more poor. Of course I speak for myself, for this I always add imho at the beginning of each post.
>
> Yes, but is it about the BRs magnetism making it easier to pull off perfects and headshots or is it about seeing the classic BR design? Would you be happy with an improved version of the H3 BR? Say projectile but no spread with an modern netcode that does not drop so many shots?

Right on point here. IMO 343 just has to provide the fun of the classic gameplay to the players that didn’t get to experience it. The exposure to this type of gameplay in current times with a large community would be great and pull them in. It would fill that niche that doesn’t exist at the moment with any new game.

I am also a huge fan of the BR (H2’s mostly because of its hitscan). I think the BR is iconic and necessary to Halo’s online MP, as I only used the magnum in system link and split screen and it doesn’t have that same feeling. I would also love a “projectile but no spread with an modern netcode” BR. I see no issue with that.

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I did enjoy halo 5s animations but they all seemed a bit complex even for badass Spartans to do. Especially since they are supposed to be 1500 pounds and more.

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I would love to see a more fast pace form of classic movement tbh

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I seriously doubt we would get classic gameplay in a new Halo game no matter how much we beg. We dont even have to walk slow, increase the movement speed a bit and compromise. It really isnt hard to do but 343 wants to take their own vision upon the game. We might have classic elements within Halo infinite but multiplayer like Halo 3, 2, and even reach is done for. ADS, Sprint, Climbing, all that CoD and Advance mobility stuff is what 343 has envisioned for Halo. Look at Halo 5 and 4 as an example. If you want Classic Halo play the MCC, thats why they went through the trouble of making it playable at the expense of choosing maps and game modes through veto. Playable elites probably wont happen either, to any Halo fan who has been requesting older elements to return, dont expect too much.

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> 2533274836967617;1541:
> The way I see it, 343 have 3 options when it comes to the gameplay;
>
> 1. They go full “Advanced” mobility or full classic gameplay. But this would alienate a significant portion of the community.
>
> 2. They go full “Advanced” mobility and have a set of classic playlists. While not a terrible idea on paper, the amount of work that would be needed for this would be quite the under taking for 343.
>
> 3. They have a newish style of gameplay that retains some of H5s mechanics and gut the rest to fit a more ‘classic’ feel. (I.E; keep thrusters, clamber, stabilizers and ditch Sprint, charge and slide. Faster BMS w/ wider FoV.)
>
> Realistically, all these options will have negative effects on somebody, but I think it is safe to say 343 know full well that there are two main vocal groups when it comes to gameplay; those who want classic and those who want advanced mobility. To be honest, they would have to be absolutely blind not to at least try option 2.
>
> Personally, while I would love Halo Infinite to be a ‘classic’ Halo, I also know 343 won’t do that. Ultimately I think 343 should go with option 3. But that’s just my opinion.

About option 3 have you played halo 5 with out charge and thrusters it works and has a classic feel that is still new so remove thrusters and keep sprint would probably happen and maybe return things like equipment and armor abilities so that people have more options to make maps that can be from all of the halo games using things from each game and they could add duel wield but not break the weapons so kind of what h2a was doing with the suppressed smg so it is a bit better but not game breaking or the individual weapons are too week to use on there own.

So what I see happening that makes the most sense for me is bringing back old mechanics but keeping new ones as well like sprint clamber ads and things that are of that nature because halo had to have things change to make it feel new but all I hear is that people want it to be like 3 but if halo stayed like 3 up tell now people would be bored of the game and it would face what cod did when ghost was released.

Look I know that a lot of people want it to be like 3 in gameplay but it isn’t going to work and to quote the gravemind “There is much talk, and I have listened, through rock and metal and time.” I have spent a lot of time in forums and all I can say is that sprint should stay and by removing thrusters and charge will get rid of what I have seen as the biggest problems in 5s multiplayer but without thrusters the tracking weapons needler suppressor and bolt shot will need to be reworked because in my own testing of no thrusters the needler will always get kills and the others become so powerful as well

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> 2779900484279609;1553:
> I am also a huge fan of the BR (H2’s mostly because of its hitscan). I think the BR is iconic and necessary to Halo’s online MP, as I only used the magnum in system link and split screen and it doesn’t have that same feeling. I would also love a “projectile but no spread with an modern netcode” BR. I see no issue with that.

So if I understand you right, it’s mostly about the visuals? Were you OK with 343 new design for the BR?
I don’t really care about what weapon I see on screen as long as it is fun to use works as a prper utility weapon and looks good, and I don’t really like 343 BR design…

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> 2533274858048752;1557:
> About option 3 have you played halo 5 with out charge and thrusters it works and has a classic feel that is still new so remove thrusters and keep sprint would probably happen and maybe return things like equipment and armor abilities so that people have more options to make maps that can be from all of the halo games using things from each game and they could add duel wield but not break the weapons so kind of what h2a was doing with the suppressed smg so it is a bit better but not game breaking or the individual weapons are too week to use on there own.
>
> So what I see happening that makes the most sense for me is bringing back old mechanics but keeping new ones as well like sprint clamber ads and things that are of that nature because halo had to have things change to make it feel new but all I hear is that people want it to be like 3 but if halo stayed like 3 up tell now people would be bored of the game and it would face what cod did when ghost was released.
>
> Look I know that a lot of people want it to be like 3 in gameplay but it isn’t going to work and to quote the gravemind “There is much talk, and I have listened, through rock and metal and time.” I have spent a lot of time in forums and all I can say is that sprint should stay and by removing thrusters and charge will get rid of what I have seen as the biggest problems in 5s multiplayer but without thrusters the tracking weapons needler suppressor and bolt shot will need to be reworked because in my own testing of no thrusters the needler will always get kills and the others become so powerful as well

As far as I’m concerned, purely in terms of the feel of the gameplay, Sprint and Clamber are the worst culprit of nonclassic feel since they prevent the player from performing combat abilities when used. And the intertwining of movement and combat is exactly what classic Halo is all about. In that respect, Thruster Pack is actually fine. It’s the only Spartan Ability from Halo 5 I could immediately consider retaining with appropriate modifications.

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> 2533274801973487;1551:
> > 2535473481267884;1549:
> > I highly doubt that. The amount of ignorant comments like “I don’t like beeing slow / clunky / modern FPS have to have sprint / lore (which is not true anyway) / if you don’t like sprint simpy don’t sprint” is fascinating. I’m aware that you will never be able to convince everyone, but it’s not like that. There is still this huge misconception amongst the sprint supporters that we just wanna have some old stuff recycled.
> >
> > To your last sentence: Indeed. That’s what we’re trying to communicate with the opposite site - I hope that at least some people understand our point of view.
>
> I know those problems, ignorance and lack of knowledge are strong to come by sometimes. Some people barely read a single comment on here. Drop a comment and never come back. But thats not really the point.
> The thing is, it really doesn’t matter what people on waypoint know (or choose to not believe), it’s up to 343 to convince those that don’t understand the calssic movement philosophy/principle that it can still be fun if done right. We can spend years talking about the issues (I have…), if 343 is not willing to give this another shot, nothing will come out of it.
> If you’re still motivated to go over this over and over again, feel free to do so, it won’t hurt :slight_smile:
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274874453277;1548:
> > Simply many years spent playing with a rifle in hand, from 2004 to 2015. With the magnum I can not have the same feeling and i’m more poor. Of course I speak for myself, for this I always add imho at the beginning of each post.
>
> Yes, but is it about the BRs magnetism making it easier to pull off perfects and headshots or is it about seeing the classic BR design? Would you be happy with an improved version of the H3 BR? Say projectile but no spread with an modern netcode that does not drop so many shots?

it’s not a question of design. It’s a question of feeling. For me, it’s natural to play with a Rifle, while it’s a forced to play without it. For example: on Torque, when i take the classic BR, I’m fun because i I recognize the gameplay I loved so much, although it is only a weapon.

Enemies who normally kill me with the magnum, almost always die if i use the classic BR. I mean also Classic BR vs Classic Br duels, so is not a magnetism question. After 10 years with the BR, use it is like breathing or walking. It’s natural.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by no spread. If you mean like H5 BR no, i feel like it as a DMR. I didn’t like H3 BR also. I Would like the classic three burst with hitscan. Imho, H2A BR was good and, if I’m not wrong, his magnetism was less than H5 BR. In any case, when the opponent is stronger than you, magnetism does not help you.

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> 2533274874453277;1560:
> it’s not a question of design. It’s a question of feeling. For me, it’s natural to play with a Rifle, while it’s a forced to play without it. For example: on Torque, when i take the classic BR, I’m fun because i I recognize the gameplay I loved so much, although it is only a weapon.

What do you think creates those feelings? It’s an developer with it’s design, both artistically and gameplay-wise…
Your own gameplay doesn’t really change (other than that the BR is easier to use than the pistol).

> 2533274874453277;1560:
> Enemies who normally kill me with the magnum, almost always die if i use the classic BR. I mean also Classic BR vs Classic Br duels, so is not a magnetism question. After 10 years with the BR, use it is like breathing or walking. It’s natural.

I’m pretty sure it’s all in your head.
Selective perception, self fulfilling prophecy, luck, etc. you want to believe there is a magical connection between you and a piece of code so you’re focussing on those instances that support this believe.

> 2533274874453277;1560:
> I’m not sure I understand what you mean by no spread.

No radom deviation between where bullets go within one burst. H3 had a lot off spread, IIRC only the first bullet will go to the center of your crosshair, the next two will go anywhere else in the crosshair. That plus a bad netcode make the BR quite unreliable.

> 2533274874453277;1560:
> If you mean like H5 BR no, i feel like it as a DMR. I didn’t like H3 BR also. I Would like the classic three burst with hitscan. Imho, H2A BR was good and, if I’m not wrong, his magnetism was less than H5 BR.

I’m not 100% sure about the actual difference between H2As BR and H5s BR spread and magnetism. Both have a high amount of magnetism so it really doesn’t matter much, both are too easy.
H5s “classic” BR has massive magnetism though.

> In any case, when the opponent is stronger than you, magnetism does not help you.

if both have the same weapon it doesn’t.
If both have a different weapon it might.