> 2533274794648158;1389:
> > 2535447612273772;1387:
> > The new abilites give an entire new skill gap you can tell because certain players won’t know how to perform said moves because they haven’t put the time in to learn them
>
> You mean pressing a button or two? Wow, we’ll call anything a skill gap these days.
Please enlighten me on what halo skill gap is classic halo vs halo 5 I’m curious as to your opinions. What’s a skill gap to you
> 2533274795123910;1401:
> If I’m not mistaken, it could be possible to.measure distances in Halo Reach and Halo 4 using territory / koth markers instead of warthogs. As you can make the areas in any length you wish, and I believe that the numbers represent the Units used in the engine.
> Worth a shot?
I’d have to look into that. However, I’m currently very occupied with work as we’re just before a huge project review. I usually leave work after 8pm and have to be back at the office before 8am. (All that on top of being sick, but the deadline doesn’t care for that.) Until at the very least this weekend, there’s no chance in hell I’ll be able to make enough time to do that…
To be honest I wouldn’t really care on the movement mechanics. I really just adapt to any new movement mechanics. It won’t bother my if it was more like classic mechanics or modern mechanics.
> 2533274801176260;1400:
> > 2533274825830455;1399:
> > No, Halo 4 has the exact same movement speed as Reach: 2.20 units per second. Your discrepancy either comes from measurement errors, or at the unit conversion stage when you translate between the length of your line of Warthogs and their canonical sizes.
>
> No, that absolutely can’t be. If that were the case, my measurement for the sprint speed would have been off by the same amount (percentage). However, I get the same sprint speed across all three games.
> While the units might be hypothetically wrong (which I still disagree on), I can absolutely vouch for BMS in Halo 4 being lower than in Reach compared to their respecitve sprint speeds. That’s a fact and can be easily verified by dividing movement times of sprint and BMS for any fixed distance (so even if my Warthog length rulers were wrong, they’re completely independent of this measurement). I’ve also repeated this measurement multiple times (and also the last time you doubted me, in July 2015), both in Halo 4 on the 360 as well as the MCC and always came to the same result. The ratio of v_BMS/v_Sprint is de facto lower in 4 than in Reach. This discrepancy could only be resolved if either Reach or 4 had a different sprint speed, which as far as I’m aware, they don’t.
> Also, do you have a screenshot of Halo 4’s 2.20 WU/s? So far I’ve only ever seen ones from Halo 3 and Reach.
I have tried to do everything as correctly as I can. I have a 400 unit track. I took a running start to negate the effects of acceleration. I have a wall at the end stopping me exactly at the right point, and a hill marker, the boundary of which gives me the correct starting frame. This way, I can determine the exact time to within a single frame. With these, I have the following times:
I don’t know the Halo Reach sprint speed, since to my knowledge Reach doesn’t have a way to set infinite sprint [EDIT: was wrong about this], which has prevented me from measuring it. If you can tell me how to do it with minimal error, I might check it. However, I do know that in Reach, too, the base speed is 2.2 units per second (as has long been known). It’s plausible that Reach follows the same standard of sprint speed as Halo 5, which is 3.37 units per second (1.5 times 2.25, the original trilogy speed). In any case, the Halo 4 sprint speed is certainly different from the Halo 5 sprint speed, which I have measured previously.
> 2533274825830455;1405:
> > 2533274801176260;1400:
> > > 2533274825830455;1399:
> > > No, Halo 4 has the exact same movement speed as Reach: 2.20 units per second. Your discrepancy either comes from measurement errors, or at the unit conversion stage when you translate between the length of your line of Warthogs and their canonical sizes.
> >
> > No, that absolutely can’t be. If that were the case, my measurement for the sprint speed would have been off by the same amount (percentage). However, I get the same sprint speed across all three games.
> > While the units might be hypothetically wrong (which I still disagree on), I can absolutely vouch for BMS in Halo 4 being lower than in Reach compared to their respecitve sprint speeds. That’s a fact and can be easily verified by dividing movement times of sprint and BMS for any fixed distance (so even if my Warthog length rulers were wrong, they’re completely independent of this measurement). I’ve also repeated this measurement multiple times (and also the last time you doubted me, in July 2015), both in Halo 4 on the 360 as well as the MCC and always came to the same result. The ratio of v_BMS/v_Sprint is de facto lower in 4 than in Reach. This discrepancy could only be resolved if either Reach or 4 had a different sprint speed, which as far as I’m aware, they don’t.
> > Also, do you have a screenshot of Halo 4’s 2.20 WU/s? So far I’ve only ever seen ones from Halo 3 and Reach.
>
> I have tried to do everything as correctly as I can. I have a 400 unit track. I took a running start to negate the effects of acceleration. I have a wall at the end stopping me exactly at the right point, and a hill marker, the boundary of which gives me the correct starting frame. This way, I can determine the exact time to within a single frame. With these, I have the following times:
> - Sprint: 110 seconds and 7 frames - Base speed: 181 seconds and 26 framesThe corresponding speeds are 3.63 units per second, and 2.2 units per second. These speeds are in the ratio 1.65 (and I have reason to believe this is exact).
>
> I don’t know the Halo Reach sprint speed, since to my knowledge Reach doesn’t have a way to set infinite sprint, which has prevented me from measuring it. If you can tell me how to do it with minimal error, I might check it. However, I do know that in Reach, too, the base speed is 2.2 units per second (as has long been known). It’s plausible that Reach follows the same standard of sprint speed as Halo 5, which is 3.37 units per second (1.5 times 2.25, the original trilogy speed). In any case, the Halo 4 sprint speed is certainly different from the Halo 5 sprint speed, which I have measured previously.
Isn’t it possible to set Armor Ability power? Like, how long a charge lasts for?
Or was it how fast it recharges?
> 2533274795123910;1406:
> Isn’t it possible to set Armor Ability power? Like, how long a charge lasts for?
> Or was it how fast it recharges?
Oh, yes, you’re right. I’m an idiot.
I was just about to say the same thing. Since sprint is not a base player trait, in Reach it’s somewhere under Weapons and Equipment (recalled from memory, the actual words might differ). It’s basically in the same menu where you can set the bottomless clip for weapons.
> 2533274795123910;1396:
> Why would it be impractical?
Because as outlined before, it’s not really in fitting with a Spartan’s combat style. Not to any regularity to where it would be a full-on implemented mechanic.
> And compared to what? Which more effective methods?
Running 35 mph and just leaping for it, using the augmentations both biological and mechanical (through Mjolnir) that have been given to them, or by also utilizing the in-suit thrusters to augment any jump or sprint.
> But it is practical for a spartan to lower their weapon and move somewhat faster?
Yes. Moving at top speed is not going to give you the clearest shot, even with all the Spartans abilities. Even counting the (often problematic) visuals of The Package from Halo Legends. And especially considering that were it possible or practical, what you’re citing there (weapon lowering) is a gameplay mechanic. Also including how shields don’t recharge while you’re sprinting. Why? Balance. That does not an argument for wall running make.
> 2533274801176260;1397:
> Because Destiny is a completely different game and even franchise, one that doesn’t necessarily have to play like Halo, even remotely?
First off, it plays pretty much like Halo. Secondly, being a different game and franchise is irrelevant; you said that Bungie called sprinting a mistake for Reach. If it was a mistake why did they keep it around?
> That being said, I haven’t seen this alleged quote by Bungie myself so far…
So why reference it?
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> > 2533274795123910;1396:
> > Why would it be impractical?
>
> Because as outlined before, it’s not really in fitting with a Spartan’s combat style. Not to any regularity to where it would be a full-on implemented mechanic.
So not actually impractical, but you just think it’s not fit for a spartan to do.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> > And compared to what? Which more effective methods?
>
> Running 35 mph and just leaping for it, using the augmentations both biological and mechanical (through Mjolnir) that have been given to them, or by also utilizing the in-suit thrusters to augment any jump or sprint.
Abilities which would be augmented even further by allowing the user to cover even larger gaps and so forth.
And that these abilities also would aid the user in wall running.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> > But it is practical for a spartan to lower their weapon and move somewhat faster?
>
> Yes. Moving at top speed is not going to give you the clearest shot, even with all the Spartans abilities. Even counting the (often problematic) visuals of The Package from Halo Legends. And especially considering that were it possible or practical, what you’re citing there (weapon lowering) is a gameplay mechanic. Also including how shields don’t recharge while you’re sprinting. Why? Balance. That does not an argument for wall running make.
So now it’s not about practicallity anymore, now we’re looking at game balance.
So pray tell, what exactly in Quake, Halo CE-3, Doom, Overwatch, Mechwarrior, is unbalanced with moving at top possible speed while maintaining pin-point accuracy?
It’s not about wall running…
> 2533274825830455;1380:
> > 2533274804813082;1379:
> > As mentioned above, I don’t think that wall running is implausible because it’s impossible, but that it’s impractical for a Spartan to utilize when they have far more effective methods of covering distance at their disposal.
>
> If we start to police what’s practical, we’re left with very few things that actually are practical. If realism and practicality are your main concerns in gameplay design, I’m not sure how you’ve ended up with Halo to begin with.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> > 2533274801176260;1397:
> > Because Destiny is a completely different game and even franchise, one that doesn’t necessarily have to play like Halo, even remotely?
>
> First off, it plays pretty much like Halo. Secondly, being a different game and franchise is irrelevant; you said that Bungie called sprinting a mistake for Reach. If it was a mistake why did they keep it around?
>
>
> > That being said, I haven’t seen this alleged quote by Bungie myself so far…
>
> So why reference it?
Pretty sure qtocool isn’t Celestis.
> 2533274795123910;1410:
> So not actually impractical,
Yes impractical, for reasons given. I could get into boots on wall/rock/etc, but we’ve already cracked the “Halo includes suspenses of reality” bubble, so such arguments are somewhat void.
> Abilities which would be augmented even further by allowing the user to cover even larger gaps and so forth. And that these abilities also would aid the user in wall running.
I’ve already stated that for it to be practical and not redundant, that would have to be a damn big gap. When we already posess the tools to cover the ground that we need to, for the topic of Spartans wall running the question begged is “why?”
> So now it’s not about practicallity anymore, now we’re looking at game balance.
You’re the one that brought up that specific mechanic that doesn’t parallel to wall running, Naqser. We’re only “looking at” that because you mentioned it; balance has nothing to do with wall running.
> 2533274804813082;1411:
> > 2533274795123910;1410:
> > So not actually impractical,
>
> Yes impractical, for reasons given. I could get into boots on wall/rock/etc, but we’ve already cracked the “Halo includes suspenses of reality” bubble, so such arguments are somewhat void.
“Impractical” because you have a certain view of spartans, and this picture you have, is not fitting of wall running.
Sounds rather practical to me being able to cover as large a distance as possible, and being a more elusive target.
> 2533274804813082;1411:
> > Abilities which would be augmented even further by allowing the user to cover even larger gaps and so forth. And that these abilities also would aid the user in wall running.
>
> I’ve already stated that for it to be practical and not redundant, that would have to be a damn big gap. When we already posess the tools to cover the ground that we need to, for the topic of Spartans wall running the question begged is “why?”
You must’ve just glanced at what I wrote, because it’s not about “wall running”.
It’s about what kind of standards you have for whatever mechanic is presented to you.
> 2533274804813082;1411:
> > So now it’s not about practicallity anymore, now we’re looking at game balance.
>
> You’re the one that brought up that specific mechanic that doesn’t parallel to wall running, Naqser. We’re only “looking at” that because you mentioned it; balance has nothing to do with wall running.
So no, I guess we won’t be hearing what’s unbalanced about top speed and pin point accuracy then?
Balance has nothing to do with wall running, no, that’s what you think is fitting for a spartan to do, and what’s not, and we label it under “practicallity”.
> 2533274795123910;1412:
> “Impractical” because you have a certain view of spartans,
No. This isn’t a “picture that I have”. This is consistency throughout the franchise to Spartan methods of engagement, the terrains and environments that they are primarily fighting in, their profession as soldiers, and the general “feel” of Halo combat. Things - even the last - which have not changed so drastically as to make “Halo: Mirror’s Edge” seem plausible. I have stated before that it’s not impossible for Spartans to pull off; they are athletic enough. I do not find it practical for all aforementioned reasons, not because of some “certain view” that you think I and I alone have.
> You must’ve just glanced at what I wrote, because it’s not about “wall running”.
Not in that particular quite you weren’t. For that reply, you were talking about wall running augmenting Spartan’s natural abilities.
> So no, I guess we won’t be hearing what’s unbalanced about top speed and pin point accuracy then?
No, we won’t. It’s irrelevant to the topic of Spartans wall running. If you’d like to discuss the practicality of Spartans sprinting while aiming accurately, I think we’ll need something a little more substantial than the Halo anime as example, or other games as parallel.
I have been playing since Halo CE and I can say i honestly prefer the new movements. At least sprint needs to stay. I am happy to see the return of the classic art style though.
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> > 2533274795123910;1412:
> > “Impractical” because you have a certain view of spartans,
>
> No. This isn’t a “picture that I have”. This is consistency throughout the franchise to Spartan methods of engagement, the terrains and environments that they are primarily fighting in, their profession as soldiers, and the general “feel” of Halo combat. Things - even the last - which have not changed so drastically as to make “Halo: Mirror’s Edge” seem plausible. I have stated before that it’s not impossible for Spartans to pull off; they are athletic enough. I do not find it practical for all aforementioned reasons, not because of some “certain view” that you think I and I alone have.
The reason it’s a certain view, whether you like it or not, is that there’s a whole lot of impractical stuff that has happened in Halo over the years that you’re most likely willing to overlook. You’re going by your personal view of what it means to be a Spartan, and how Sparatans should fight and use their environment. There’s nothing inherent about what we’ve seen this far in Halo that would exclude wall running, it’s just your personal interpretation of the canon that excludes it. This is what Naqser probably means by a certain view.
When it comes to the feel of Halo combat, I could’ve agreed with you even five years ago, but those days are gone. In Halo 5, we can already climb ledges that are over three times higher than a Spartan’s head, and fly over gaps that are fourteen times longer than a Spartan’s height. Adding wall running into the mix is completely within the feel of this Spartan Ability based combat as far as I’m concerned. Of course, as the rest of your view, this feel is entirely subjective, so feel free to disagree.
> 2535447612273772;1402:
> Please enlighten me on what halo skill gap is classic halo vs halo 5 I’m curious as to your opinions. What’s a skill gap to you
Skill gap is measured by the difference in performance between players of differing skills. As the skill gap increases, the difference in performance between players increases. I have zero reason to believe that the inclusion of spartan abilities actually increases the differentiation between the top and bottom players, because every single one of them is neither physically or mentally taxing on the player. The onus is on you to explain to me how H5’s abilities somehow propel Halo’s skill gap to new heights, because as far as I’m concerned, H5’s skill gap seems to be in the same ball park as every other Halo game (barring CE, my Lord and Savior).
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> Yes. Moving at top speed is not going to give you the clearest shot, even with all the Spartans abilities.
That’s a baseless assumption.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> Even counting the (often problematic) visuals of The Package from Halo Legends.
It’s still canon. Besides, it’s by far not the only instance of Spartans running and shooting at pinpoint accuracy, even in 343’s own releases, such as “Forward Unto Dawn”.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> And especially considering that were it possible or practical, what you’re citing there (weapon lowering) is a gameplay mechanic. Also including how shields don’t recharge while you’re sprinting. Why? Balance.
Correct. So whether or not wallrunning “fits with a Spartan’s combat style” is completely irrelevant, just like it always was for sprint. The only relevant question is whether or not it’s balanced.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> First off, it plays pretty much like Halo.
It plays somewhat similar to Nu-Halo, which is to be expected given that Reach was Bungie’s test-bed for Destiny-mechanics and 343 chose to continue that gameplay instead of going back to Classic Halo. It does not play like the original trilogy at all. But even so, the gameplay is sufficiently different even to Reach for other design philosophies to apply. If anything, given all the abilities integral to the gameplay, it plays more similar to Hero-shooters such as Overwatch, just that your “hero” is customizable and not picked from a predefined roster.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> Secondly, being a different game and franchise is irrelevant; you said that Bungie called sprinting a mistake for Reach. If it was a mistake why did they keep it around?
No, it’s not. Just because it might have been a mistake for Halo does not automatically imply that it’d be a mistake for a completely different game and franchise. Otherwise all game franchises would necessarily play identical because any mechanic that is a good (bad) fit for one game is immediately a good (bad) fit for all others.
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> So why reference it?
I didn’t.
> 2533274804813082;1411:
> I’ve already stated that for it to be practical and not redundant, that would have to be a damn big gap. When we already posess the tools to cover the ground that we need to, for the topic of Spartans wall running the question begged is “why?”
Sounds identical to clamber for me.
“For it to be practical and not redundant, that would have to be a damn big [wall]. When we already posess the tools to [jump the heights] that we need to, for the topic of Spartans [clambering] the question begged is “why?””
343 doesn’t seem to have any issues with including mechanics that are redundant and artificially giving them purpose. Not that I’d absolutely want wall running, but I don’t see what would make that one exempt from this modus operandi.
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> This is consistency throughout the franchise to Spartan methods of engagement, the terrains and environments that they are primarily fighting in, their profession as soldiers, and the general “feel” of Halo combat.
All of which have already been broken, disregarded or otherwise modified before, like when adding Sprint, Armor Abilities, including and then removing Dual Wielding again, Vehicle Boarding, ADS, Clamber, Thrusters, Bloom, Flinch, Descope, etc. Just to be clear: This is not meant to be an qualitative evaluation of the worth of these mechanics but is just a list of all the occasions of whenever the “Spartan methods of engagement” and “the general “feel” of Halo combat” have substantially changed over the course of the franchise, specifically within the games (even when they were contradicting canon). The games so far have been anything but consistent.
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> > 2533274795123910;1412:
> > “Impractical” because you have a certain view of spartans,
>
> No. This isn’t a “picture that I have”. This is consistency throughout the franchise to Spartan methods of engagement, the terrains and environments that they are primarily fighting in, their profession as soldiers, and the general “feel” of Halo combat. Things - even the last - which have not changed so drastically as to make “Halo: Mirror’s Edge” seem plausible. I have stated before that it’s not impossible for Spartans to pull off; they are athletic enough. I do not find it practical for all aforementioned reasons, not because of some “certain view” that you think I and I alone have.
Not sure where you got the idea that I think you’re the only one to have that view, other than that tsassi covered this part.
Also, as far as the terrains and environments that they primarily fight in, here’s a quote from earlier which slightly touches that subject:
> 2533274804813082;1395:
> > 2535407747275549;1394:
> > Reach didn’t have sprint as a base mechanic but rather a pick up can’t be compared at all
>
> It still has sprint. The maps still compensated for that ability, and allowed for it.
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> > You must’ve just glanced at what I wrote, because it’s not about “wall running”.
>
> Not in that particular quite you weren’t. For that reply, you were talking about wall running augmenting Spartan’s natural abilities.
All what I’ve written comes down to one thing, your perception of a Spartan, and how they shouldn’t wall run for whatever reason.
That reason has changed, from it being implausable as walls could collapse, to not being something a spartan would do, to now having more “practical” ways of doing the same thing.
Your dislike for wall running has stayed the same, the reasons for that dislike, in Halo at least, has changed over the course of this thread.
And all this while jumping between lore and gameplay.
Me talking about wall running augmenting a Spartan’s “natural abilities”, is the same thing as me earlier explaining how a wall wouldn’t collapse due to a Spartan wall running on it.
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> > So no, I guess we won’t be hearing what’s unbalanced about top speed and pin point accuracy then?
>
> No, we won’t.
Because you can’t explain it?
Because there’s no actual explanation to this?
Because?
> 2533274804813082;1413:
> It’s irrelevant to the topic of Spartans wall running. If you’d like to discuss the practicality of Spartans sprinting while aiming accurately, I think we’ll need something a little more substantial than the Halo anime as example, or other games as parallel.
Well yes it is, but it’s a parallel. You brought up “practicality”, in lore, for a video game. I brought up a different mechanic under the same topic of Advanced Movement, asked wether or not that’s practical for those fictional characters. However then we moved back to balance things, which you were happy to bring up.
However now it needs to be more “substantial” than an anime, which I’ve said can be disregarded ( While Celestis mentioned other times this thing has happened, and who also covered some other stuff ), as i343 can write the Spartans as they please.
Not to mention, i343 hasn’t to my knowledge gone on record saying that moving at top speed requires balance adjustments in non-related movement mechanics, such as being not being able to perform offensive manoeuvres and having your shields recharge.
So either you have an explanation regarding this top speed / pin point accuracy, as you gladly brought “balance” up regarding sprint, oooor:
> 2533274804813082;1409:
> So why reference it?
> 2533274825830455;1415:
> The reason it’s a certain view, whether you like it or not, is that there’s a whole lot of impractical stuff that has happened in Halo over the years that you’re most likely willing to overlook.
“A certain view”, as used, infers a view not in keeping with the norm, or a view that is similar to the norm, but slightly off. A “headcanon”, if you will. Yes, we’ve been over that there are many “impractical” things in the Halo Universe, but they are consistent within the Halo Universe. Slipspace, energy shields, nuclear backpacks, etc. Spartans suddenly acting like French thrillseekers does not fit within their established combat method as military special operations and enhanced humans. Within the Halo Canon, the UNSC is a military organization closely mirroring current military structure and rules of engagement. They’re not a free-for-all vigilante guild akin to the Assassins Guild.
As such it’s not a personal view of what it means to be a Spartan, or how Spartans fight, it’s canon as given to us. It’s why some things, even in the canon, don’t fit (e.g. Lucy punching Halsey), because they deviate from the majority of the canon.
> In Halo 5, we can already climb ledges that are over three times higher than a Spartan’s head, and fly over gaps that are fourteen times longer than a Spartan’s height. Adding wall running into the mix is completely within the feel of this Spartan Ability based combat as far as I’m concerned.
I do still disagree, not due to lack of ability but redundancy so far as mechanics are concerned. As you say, we can already cover gaps that are incredibly long. In Mirror’s Edge, Faith has to wall run to cover gaps that we could even clear in Halo: Combat Evolved, because in that universe, she’s an unaugmented, normal human of higher-than-normal athletic ability. Still can’t clear a 10 foot gap, though, so wall-running is the go-to mechanic (as a parkour runner) to be able to clear that. The Spartans, on the other hand, are able to just jump for it. And with thruster packs - which have foundation in the lore - they have more than the ability to close that immense gap. So why do we need to wall run?
> 2533274801176260;1417:
> That’s a baseless assumption.
No, it’s really not. The Spartans may be augmented, but they’re not capable of anything. Their arms would have to be gyroscopically steadied to retain accuracy while sprinting; without it, the natural sway of the body throws your aim all over the place.
> It’s still canon.
What happened in The Package is canon. The visuals are quite a different story, and there are far too many inaccuracies to excuse one thing over another and retain the visuals as canonical. Forward Unto Dawn also had John-117 kill three Kig-Yar while moving, and then firing to draw their fire (as stated earlier by him) while moving at a speed that was probably sprinting. A couple of times he even drops his aim. After those three Jackals, when he really starts moving, he doesn’t make a single kill and continues getting shot at.
> So whether or not wallrunning “fits with a Spartan’s combat style” is completely irrelevant, just like it always was for sprint.
I disagree, it’s entirely relevant for a game that’s built around the canon. For the same reason we don’t have Spartans riding dinosaurs, or storing rockets in their gauntlets. You can balance practically anything. The bigger issue is whether or not it fits in Halo; especially with how much people go on about retaining the “Halo feel”. Which isn’t to say that new things shouldn’t be added, only that they should fit within the established canon. (The section quoted also still stands; gameplay mechanics for sprint don’t really enter into anything I’m saying about wall running.)
> 2533274795123910;1418:
> Also, as far as the terrains and environments that they primarily fight in, here’s a quote from earlier which slightly touches that subject:
So again, how does a map necessitate wall-running, when we already possess ample mobility abilities, without introducing redundancy? And without making wall-running just some gimmick to look cool? All the abilities that we currently have possess a purpose, so on top of needing to fit within the canon as established, wall running would need an equal sense of purpose.
> That reason has changed, from it being implausable as walls could collapse,
Gods, not that -BLAM-ing point that, oh yes, I bloody well conceded. Are we not allowed to have multiple issues with something?
> to not being something a spartan would do, to now having more “practical” ways of doing the same thing.
This is my issue. Focus on this, instead of dragging in for the millionth time something I’ve said “Oh, yeah, I guess they aren’t as heavy as I thought. Never mind on that.” Show me a reason why a Spartan would suddenly decide to act like an Assassin. Give me an example of why they would resort to going parkour instead of just jumping over a gap. Give anything beyond “Well, there’s nothing that says they can’t.”
> Me talking about wall running augmenting a Spartan’s “natural abilities”, is the same thing as me earlier explaining how a wall wouldn’t collapse due to a Spartan wall running on it.
You were right about the wall because I mis-remembered a Spartan’s weight. That doesn’t mean you’re automatically right about Spartans’ natural abilities augmenting wall running. Especially since I’ve said - repeatedly - that while a Spartan could wall-run, within the Halo canon it just does not make sense for them to. With a Spartan’s natural abilities we should also be able to wield Mongeese as blunt weapons (and there’s even lore on that); should that be added into the game too? What about kicking? Halo could become a regular ol’ Street Fighter throwdown, with loadouts allowing for CQC tactics. There’s nothing that says a Spartan can’t do all those things, and it could be balanced, right?
But it won’t, because that’s not Halo’s style. Spartans in the lore might resort to those things in extreme cases, but it’s not a norm. And just because a Spartan can physically wall-run, there are so few instances where it’s going to be needed that it becomes an impractical, flashy gimmick, rather than a tactical move.
> Because you can’t explain it?
> Because there’s no actual explanation to this?
> Because?
As continued on in the same sentence, because it is irrelevant to the topic of wall running. Parallel to you, red herring to me.
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> Spartans suddenly acting like French thrillseekers does not fit within their established combat method as military special operations and enhanced humans.
Too late, that’s already part of established canon.
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> As such it’s not a personal view of what it means to be a Spartan, or how Spartans fight, it’s canon as given to us. It’s why some things, even in the canon, don’t fit (e.g. Lucy punching Halsey), because they deviate from the majority of the canon.
So, it’s canon that’s given to us, but when given apparently conflicting canon, instead of accepting that you denounce it and continue believeing in your prior interpretation of the canon? That sounds deceptively like a headcanon.
The important question I guess is: do you denounce Spartan Abilities on the same basis you denounce wall running? if you do, I have no problem here since my only point since the start has been that wall running is no less fitting to the canon than Spartan Abilities. However, if you don’t, then we have wildly different interpretations of what it means to be a Spartan and how Spartans fight, clearly showing how it’s a matter of personal views.
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> As such it’s not a personal view of what it means to be a Spartan, or how Spartans fight, it’s canon as given to us. It’s why some things, even in the canon, don’t fit (e.g. Lucy punching Halsey), because they deviate from the majority of the canon.
Yes, it is a personal view because you pick and choose what you consider canon and what not for the purpose of this discussion. As evidenced by you repeatedly disregarding canon sources if they contradict your personal opinion. Judge, Jury and Executioner. As tsassi already said, you’re not arguing from a lore point of view but just forcing your personal headcanon on others.
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> > 2533274801176260;1417:
> > That’s a baseless assumption.
>
> No, it’s really not. The Spartans may be augmented, but they’re not capable of anything. Their arms would have to be gyroscopically steadied to retain accuracy while sprinting; without it, the natural sway of the body throws your aim all over the place.
So what you’re saying is that is basically is possible using Mjolnir technology. Which we already know to have a gyroscope included and be able to armor lock specific parts into place…
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> > It’s still canon.
>
> What happened in The Package is canon.
Correct. And one of the things that happened in The Package is Spartans sprinting while shooting, at max accuracy no less. That’s not a visual issue here, that’s an event that took place. A visual discrepancy is the Mark-IV HUD having a shield bar when it shouldn’t have. (Although that technically is still not a contradiction because we never actually see if that bar even displays shield strength. It might be Mjolnir power reserves or something else entirely.)
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> Forward Unto Dawn also had John-117 kill three Kig-Yar while moving, and then firing to draw their fire (as stated earlier by him) while moving at a speed that was probably sprinting. A couple of times he even drops his aim. After those three Jackals, when he really starts moving, he doesn’t make a single kill and continues getting shot at.
He is headshotting three Jackals during sprint. Also firing into a direction that is not forward, btw, but 90° to the side, which we also cannot do ingame. And no, he doesn’t “really start moving” (whatever that means) afterwards, it’s just that the slow-motion effect ends. You also don’t know if he doesn’t make any kills anymore just because they’re not shown. Stop making stuff up to validate your headcanon.
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> I disagree, it’s entirely relevant for a game that’s built around the canon.
It’s not. Gameplay mechanics have repeatedly disregarded or flat out broken canon. Sprint disbling shooting is one of them. (I’m not even talking about accuracy here but just not allowing the player to fire at all.) Not being able to fire independently of your view is another. So is ADS (or more specifically the inability to use smart-link). So is the removal of dual wielding. So is (was) the inclusion of shields for Spartan group Omega in Halo Wars. (That particular one was since retconned to be experimental gear, but for several years it was a completely non-canon mechanic that was included for gameplay purposes, as stated by the developer.)
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> For the same reason we don’t have Spartans riding dinosaurs
You mean this? That was literally meant to be included in Halo CE, but only cut because of contol and AI issues?
> 2533274804813082;1419:
> All the abilities that we currently have possess a purpose, so on top of needing to fit within the canon as established, wall running would need an equal sense of purpose.
Wrong. Your definition of redundancy perfectly fits clamber, which makes it one ability without purpose. It was given (artificial) purpose by forcefully raising ledges so they can no longer be reached with jump. In the same way, chasms can be forcefully elongated so they can no longer be crossed with jumps to (equally artificially) giving it purpose.
