The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
962

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> > 2535447940912902;959:
> > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > So you want a halo 3 clone?
> >
> > How does anything I said suggest I want a Halo 3 clone? lol. I’m not against changing things. Halo 3 changed a lot from Halo 2 and Halo 3 is still my second favorite behind it.
> >
> >
> > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > Every game should have something different to offer. 343i are used to changing gameplay mechanics.
> >
> > So I’m supposed to accept it just because they’re already used to doing it? I didn’t accept it the first time they did it and I probably won’t start now.
> >
> >
> > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > A classic halo experience is what we need but with added features that benefit it and don’t mess with the golden halo triangle.
> >
> > I feel the same way precisely.
>
> A completely classic halo wont appeal to many people. They should take everything that worked and use that such as thrust and clamber(of course they need tweaks).I think what I suggested stays true to the golden halo triangle.

Where did you gather this information? Did you conduct a poll that gauges a significant portion of the community? Anything less is mere speculation. I highly doubt that is the case anyway. The evidence speaks for itself, which, in this case, is sales numbers.

963

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> > 2535456029664360;961:
> > > 2535447940912902;959:
> > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > So you want a halo 3 clone?
> > >
> > > How does anything I said suggest I want a Halo 3 clone? lol. I’m not against changing things. Halo 3 changed a lot from Halo 2 and Halo 3 is still my second favorite behind it.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > Every game should have something different to offer. 343i are used to changing gameplay mechanics.
> > >
> > > So I’m supposed to accept it just because they’re already used to doing it? I didn’t accept it the first time they did it and I probably won’t start now.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > A classic halo experience is what we need but with added features that benefit it and don’t mess with the golden halo triangle.
> > >
> > > I feel the same way precisely.
> >
> > A completely classic halo wont appeal to many people. They should take everything that worked and use that such as thrust and clamber(of course they need tweaks).I think what I suggested stays true to the golden halo triangle.
>
> Where did you gather this information? Did you conduct a poll that gauges a significant portion of the community? Anything less is mere speculation. I highly doubt that is the case anyway. The evidence speaks for itself, which, in this case, is sales numbers.

Halo 3 was great for back then. We need something good but a bit different.

How are the sales evidence.

Halo 3 sold 14 million
Halo 5 sold 7 million+ woops, exageration.

7 million+ people are quite a lot, if you dont agree with that at least half of them stuck around till the free dlc ended.

And really what is wrong with adding abilities that work well with the halo formula.

964

> 2535456029664360;963:
> > 2535447940912902;962:
> > > 2535456029664360;961:
> > > > 2535447940912902;959:
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > So you want a halo 3 clone?
> > > >
> > > > How does anything I said suggest I want a Halo 3 clone? lol. I’m not against changing things. Halo 3 changed a lot from Halo 2 and Halo 3 is still my second favorite behind it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > Every game should have something different to offer. 343i are used to changing gameplay mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > So I’m supposed to accept it just because they’re already used to doing it? I didn’t accept it the first time they did it and I probably won’t start now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > A classic halo experience is what we need but with added features that benefit it and don’t mess with the golden halo triangle.
> > > >
> > > > I feel the same way precisely.
> > >
> > > A completely classic halo wont appeal to many people. They should take everything that worked and use that such as thrust and clamber(of course they need tweaks).I think what I suggested stays true to the golden halo triangle.
> >
> > Where did you gather this information? Did you conduct a poll that gauges a significant portion of the community? Anything less is mere speculation. I highly doubt that is the case anyway. The evidence speaks for itself, which, in this case, is sales numbers.
>
> Halo 3 was great for back then. We need something good but a bit different.
>
> How are the sales evidence.
>
> Halo 3 sold 14 million
> Halo 5 sold 7 million+
>
> 7 million+ people are quite a lot, if you dont agree with that at least half of them stuck around till the free dlc ended.
>
> And really what is wrong with adding abilities that work well with the halo formula.

How are sales evidence? Halo 3 sold twice as many copies as Halo 5. This means Halo 3 was not only twice as popular, but twice as successful, as well. How are sales not evidence? XD We don’t even know how many people of that 14 million are even a part of that 7 million…meaning, there could be a large number of new players that didn’t even play (and/or like) the older games! This is conclusive evidence that more people like classic Halo. The only thing better is a wide-scale poll, but good luck finding those.

Edit: I’m not against abilities that work well with the Halo formula. I would love to see the Halo 3 equipment return with one or two abilities from newer games: None of these abilities would include Ground pound, spartan charge, unlimited sprint, and clamber because these elements do effectively mess with the Halo formula.

965

> 2535456029664360;963:
> Halo 3 sold 14 million
> Halo 5 sold 7 million+

Could you point me to where the 7 million figure comes from? I’ve been looking for an updated sales number post-2016 but haven’t found any so far. The last verified number known to me was 5 million shipped(!) (not sold) copies, mid-16.

EDIT: For whatever reason, this post got quite a few “likes”. I just want to point out that this was not a suggestive question, but a legitimate inquiry. I didn’t mean to lead him on, but was honestly curious if I had missed an official statement by 343 or Microsoft that is more up-to-date than the latest one I was familiar with.

966

> 2535456029664360;963:
> > 2535447940912902;962:
> > > 2535456029664360;961:
> > > > 2535447940912902;959:
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > So you want a halo 3 clone?
> > > >
> > > > How does anything I said suggest I want a Halo 3 clone? lol. I’m not against changing things. Halo 3 changed a lot from Halo 2 and Halo 3 is still my second favorite behind it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > Every game should have something different to offer. 343i are used to changing gameplay mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > So I’m supposed to accept it just because they’re already used to doing it? I didn’t accept it the first time they did it and I probably won’t start now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > A classic halo experience is what we need but with added features that benefit it and don’t mess with the golden halo triangle.
> > > >
> > > > I feel the same way precisely.
> > >
> > > A completely classic halo wont appeal to many people. They should take everything that worked and use that such as thrust and clamber(of course they need tweaks).I think what I suggested stays true to the golden halo triangle.
> >
> > Where did you gather this information? Did you conduct a poll that gauges a significant portion of the community? Anything less is mere speculation. I highly doubt that is the case anyway. The evidence speaks for itself, which, in this case, is sales numbers.
>
> Halo 3 was great for back then. We need something good but a bit different.
>
> How are the sales evidence.
>
> Halo 3 sold 14 million
> Halo 5 sold 7 million+
>
> 7 million+ people are quite a lot, if you dont agree with that at least half of them stuck around till the free dlc ended.
>
> And really what is wrong with adding abilities that work well with the halo formula.

Halo 5 sold nowhere near 7 million, bud. Stop pulling numbers out of your -Yoink-. Halo 5 sold less than 5 million making it the worst selling mainline Halo game. It’s clear that Halo is dying and 343i should go back the series roots aka classic gameplay with sprint and abilities to try and bring people back.

967

> 2533274798957786;956:
> Or, I could be right.

Except you’re not. There are literally people on this thread whose very existence prove you wrong.

> 2533274798957786;956:
> It just seems to me that all the pushback comes from players that participated in the Halo 2/Halo 3 heyday era.

Also wrong. While not her on this thread, in the sprint thread of the H5G subforum, there were plenty of people that entered the franchise after Bungie/Reach, not understanding why the series used to be so revered, then went back to play the originals on the 360 or MCC and found the gameplay more to their liking.

> 2533274798957786;956:
> and while it might get dialed back in the next game it’s not likely to disappear, since the story is not likely to go backwards either.

Would you mind telling that to all the mechanics that did get removed in the past, such as dual wielding, flinch, loadouts, etc.?

> 2533274798957786;956:
> I suppose I continue to love Halo because I never compared one release to the next. I considered each main Halo release as a new Halo game, and only the story was being continued.

So what’s different this time? If Infinite does have “classic mechanics”, why do you start comparing it to its predecessors now? Because that’s literally your only argument: That you don’t want to go “backwards”.
(Even though Halo has gone “backwards” plenty of times, some of which you even defend as being something positive.)

And I already know that you’re going to ignore this post just like you did previous ones that disproved or even challenged your point of view, like the three monkeys, pretending it doesn’t exist. No matter, I’m still going to point out where you’re wrong like I did before. Somebody has to…

968

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> > 2535456029664360;963:
> > > 2535447940912902;962:
> > > > 2535456029664360;961:
> > > > > 2535447940912902;959:
> > > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > > So you want a halo 3 clone?
> > > > >
> > > > > How does anything I said suggest I want a Halo 3 clone? lol. I’m not against changing things. Halo 3 changed a lot from Halo 2 and Halo 3 is still my second favorite behind it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > > Every game should have something different to offer. 343i are used to changing gameplay mechanics.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I’m supposed to accept it just because they’re already used to doing it? I didn’t accept it the first time they did it and I probably won’t start now.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2535456029664360;950:
> > > > > > A classic halo experience is what we need but with added features that benefit it and don’t mess with the golden halo triangle.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel the same way precisely.
> > > >
> > > > A completely classic halo wont appeal to many people. They should take everything that worked and use that such as thrust and clamber(of course they need tweaks).I think what I suggested stays true to the golden halo triangle.
> > >
> > > Where did you gather this information? Did you conduct a poll that gauges a significant portion of the community? Anything less is mere speculation. I highly doubt that is the case anyway. The evidence speaks for itself, which, in this case, is sales numbers.
> >
> > Halo 3 was great for back then. We need something good but a bit different.
> >
> > How are the sales evidence.
> >
> > Halo 3 sold 14 million
> > Halo 5 sold 7 million+
> >
> > 7 million+ people are quite a lot, if you dont agree with that at least half of them stuck around till the free dlc ended.
> >
> > And really what is wrong with adding abilities that work well with the halo formula.
>
> How are sales evidence? Halo 3 sold twice as many copies as Halo 5. This means Halo 3 was not only twice as popular, but twice as successful, as well. How are sales not evidence? XD We don’t even know how many people of that 14 million are even a part of that 7 million…meaning, there could be a large number of new players that didn’t even play (and/or like) the older games! This is conclusive evidence that more people like classic Halo. The only thing better is a wide-scale poll, but good luck finding those.
>
> Edit: I’m not against abilities that work well with the Halo formula. I would love to see the Halo 3 equipment return with one or two abilities from newer games: None of these abilities would include Ground pound, spartan charge, unlimited sprint, and clamber because these elements do effectively mess with the Halo formula.

Since we agree on that, I really dont care to reply after this.

969

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/11/04/halo-5-was-the-biggest-launch-in-halo-history/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwiQ1buRj4vdAhVMcCsKHTmDAjsQFjACegQIDBAP&usg=AOvVaw1LM-PR1Xj2KPIUb8fd3ih7&ampcf=1

It was an assumption and you dont have to rage over it XD. According to the price i bought it for I got 6.75 million.

970

> 2535456029664360;969:
> It was an assumption and you dont have to rage over it XD. According to the price i bought it for I got 6.75 million.

Not only do game prices vary from country to country, but that number is already known to be skewed and overblown as it includes console bundles and even themed hardware such as controllers. So basically nothing changes, the last verified number is 5-ish million shipped copies some time in 2016. Oh well…

PS: I think you quoted the wrong post.

971

> 2533274801176260;970:
> > 2535456029664360;969:
> > It was an assumption and you dont have to rage over it XD. According to the price i bought it for I got 6.75 million.
>
> Not only do game prices vary from country to country, but that number is already known to be skewed and overblown as it includes console bundles and even themed hardware such as controllers. So basically nothing changes, the last verified number is 5-ish million shipped copies some time in 2016. Oh well…
>
> PS: I think you quoted the wrong post.

Sorry there.

972

> 2533274798957786;956:
> I suppose I continue to love Halo because I never compared one release to the next. I considered each main Halo release as a new Halo game, and only the story was being continued. I don’t think new players are as concerned about how Halo 5 movement mechanics compare to Halo CE mechanics because they’re playing Halo 5 and they’re not playing Halo CEA. In ten years they will be calling Halo 5 “classic” movement.

Then why is it a problem right now? Why are you comparing the next Halo game to Halo 3 for the simple fact that it might not have the mechanics that Halo Reach-5 have? Where were you when Halo 5 got rid of many mechanics from Halo 4, such as Loadouts, in order to return to mechanics from “classic Halo”, such as equal starts? Many people already said that they are okay with changes that make it not like Halo 3, as long as they are good changes, and even you said that a new Halo game would need changes to not be exactly like Halo 3, but you fail to bring up any of those changes when asked.

> 2533274798957786;956:
> When talking about the future of the Halo franchise, “classic movement mechanics” is the strawman argument here. Retaining or eliminating Spartan Charge or Ground Pound will not be the determining factors of Halo’s success or failure.

But you were the one that said that using “classic movement mechanics” is dull and boring, which implies you do not expect it to be as successful as the mechanics we have right now, or at worst, detrimental to its success. Despite people here showing to be quite open to certain changes, and at least one person bringing up examples of those changes, your scope still narrows to “specifically Halo 3 clone”. I myself don’t even want certain things from Halo 3 to be in the next Halo.

> 2533274798957786;956:
> Insisting that the movement mechanics are what made Halo 2 and 3 so popular is to ignore all the other segments of the community that paid as much for the game as anyone else.

It was a huge part of what made Halo CE-3 so popular, especially for a game on consoles where you have less inputs to work with compared to a keyboard and mouse. It wasn’t the end all be all reason, but it was certainly a reason.

> 2533274798957786;956:
> I’m merely saying that focusing on movement mechanics at the expense of all the other things that attract people to Halo is, at best, short-sighted.

Seriously, who said these things (that you haven’t specified, so I guess it’ll have to be a broader scope) had to leave? None of those games were 100% bad and everything had to be discarded. I mean people still praise Reach’s UI, Forge World, Halo 4’s playlists, vehicle seat switching, etc. to this day. If we’re talking about direct gameplay and movement mechanics, well Halo CE-3 are all different in that aspect and has strengths and weaknesses.

The people who want some of those mechanics removed don’t want them removed because they aren’t “in a classic Halo game”, they want them removed because they simply don’t enjoy them.

973

> 2533274974695300;947:
> > 2533274801176260;946:
> > > 2533274974695300;944:
> > > You are right, I’m not part of the DOOM community, but I do lurk the comments sections a lot (sometimes I which I didn’t), and when you compare the comments sections of a DOOM video to the ones of a Halo video (this also extends to the types of video themselves) you see massive differences. With DOOM they always say how awesome the games are and how “this is how you do gameplay”, and when you look at Halo you always see things like how any form of advanced movements does not belong in Halo and so on.
>
> Ok, but being against the idea of advanced movements of any kind just because it wasn’t executed well before? That’s kinda harsh don’t you think? I already gave a few examples on how you can do it, it’s possible and I’m literally doing what you are talking about. Keep thrusters but lower the distance traveled, keep clamber but make it so you can’t use it while falling, remove everything else, and increase the BMS.

I would rather no thruster on spawn, since it’s on spawn it can only be so powerful before being game breaking, if its not up often it’s inconsistent, if it’s up often it makes the player obliged to use it in a fight every time (this becomes more true the closer the distance of the fight as a rapid shift in direction disorients the enemy).

I would rather an evade ability like reach spawn in the map, just without the broken dodge roll that shifted the hitbox. all the good shooters, even the class based ones make you spawn as minimal as possible. I would rather you spawn barebones, 1 gun and nades, and given a smorgasbord of weapons, items and abilities to work with, i feel that is more in line with halo.

In other games there are crowd control and major movement abilities, we have only seen a glimpse of this in Halo, i feel it could provide a dimension built upon the game, not alter the game, in a way we have not seen since 343 entered the scene. To take the positives of these class based games, MOBAs and the like without having to become this style or gimp our game in the process.

EDIT

Also i don’t see how we can’t have any confidence in a classic style Halo when the advanced movement trend has gone down the gutter (where it belongs) and more minimal / essentialist design philosophy has taken the mainstage. We also have seen a surge of games see a revival or return to form and gained massive praise (alongside being great games), so i don’t know why Halo would be a black sheep in that regard.

I hate how people say Halo 3 clone, it’s easily the most sluggish one, why can’t i have a game that’s quick without the need for abilities on spawn moving stupidly fast and/or putting the game on pause and as Celestis said make me prioritise 1 thing instead of doing it simultaneously.

Those who seem to side with 343s design choices seem to (by default) fail to recognise or fathom that we don’t regard 343s implementations as Halo feeling and that we want a game which builds off what Bungie did, not nearly clean slate it and alter it bit by bit from the ground up like they did.

974

Majority of halo fans want halo to go back to the halo 3 gameplay/movement, but there is a classic gameplay/movement 343i has done in the past. Which is H2A multiplayer. It was 343i first try at the classic halo style while adding something new to halo sandbox that wasn’t attached to the controller. The levaltion like stuff in the H2A maps were something new to the series which change the gameplay in a good way. It was something that you could use to kill other players or be use as cover. In HI I think 343i should go with the H2A gameplay/movement since it faster then Halo 3 but not to fast as H5G, while improving the levaltion. Like imagine sandtrap but a sandstorm comes through the map changing the layout or a a forerunner map where you can hit a button to call sentails to kill the other players or etc.

But I don’t think 343i will do anything like that in HI.

975

> 2533274936074323;974:
> Majority of halo fans want halo to go back to the halo 3 gameplay/movement

You happen to have any data to support this? Don’t make claims you can’t back up.

We need to stop talking about Halo 3. “Classic Halo” is not Halo 3 alone. Halo 3 is not some pinnacle of classic Halo gameplay. It’s the lowest bar one can set for “I want to make a classic Halo game”. It gets as much wrong as it gets right. Halo 3 is not something to aim for, it’s one example of how a classic Halo game can be made, not a guide for how a classic Halo game should be made. And the same applies to all classic Halo games; Halo CE, 2, 3 are all just examples. They do some things well, some things badly, and some things adequately. Halo 3 has very good vehicle gameplay, but an abominable weapon sandbox. Halo 2 has passable movement, but bad gunplay. Halo CE has great gunplay, but the vehicle gameplay feels like an afterthought. None of these games is an acceptable standard of what Halo should be. (And neither is Halo 2 Anniversary.)

Classic Halo is not a concrete game: it’s a concept. It’s an idealized form of Halo gameplay with barebones player mechanics, and it can be anything we want. Restricting to any one game and saying it should be like that is just unimaginative and unambitious. It also gives more credence to the “all you want is Halo 3.5” crowd, and to the idea that there’s no room to be creative in classic Halo (and consequently that designing fresh gameplay experiences needs to happen through drastic changes in player mechanics.)

976

I dont want to be walking around all game. Rather have the ability to run

977

> 2535416837427175;976:
> I dont want to be walking around all game. Rather have the ability to run

What’s the difference between walking and running that makes that difference for you?

Not an insult or sarcastic question, by the way.

978

> 2533274825830455;975:
> > 2533274936074323;974:
> > Majority of halo fans want halo to go back to the halo 3 gameplay/movement
>
> You happen to have any data to support this? Don’t make claims you can’t back up.
>
> We need to stop talking about Halo 3. “Classic Halo” is not Halo 3 alone. Halo 3 is not some pinnacle of classic Halo gameplay. It’s the lowest bar one can set for “I want to make a classic Halo game”. It gets as much wrong as it gets right. Halo 3 is not something to aim for, it’s one example of how a classic Halo game can be made, not a guide for how a classic Halo game should be made. And the same applies to all classic Halo games; Halo CE, 2, 3 are all just examples. They do some things well, some things badly, and some things adequately. Halo 3 has very good vehicle gameplay, but an abominable weapon sandbox. Halo 2 has passable movement, but bad gunplay. Halo CE has great gunplay, but the vehicle gameplay feels like an afterthought. None of these games is an acceptable standard of what Halo should be. (And neither is Halo 2 Anniversary.)
>
> Classic Halo is not a concrete game: it’s a concept. It’s an idealized form of Halo gameplay with barebones player mechanics, and it can be anything we want. Restricting to any one game and saying it should be like that is just unimaginative and unambitious. It also gives more credence to the “all you want is Halo 3.5” crowd, and to the idea that there’s no room to be creative in classic Halo (and consequently that designing fresh gameplay experiences needs to happen through drastic changes in player mechanics.)

I do not have data for it BUT that is how seems when people in the community talk about wanting classic halo to return. Just playing the current non fixed MCC 8 out 10 times people only pick Halo 3. While at the same time in polls about halo MP halo 3 is the majority of the time. To be honest I feel like the majority of halo fans want halo 3 style gameplay/movement. If classic halo gameplay/movement does return then I see 343i taking Halo 3 as a base and not H2A. So far HI art style is 80% or 90% classic halo so gameplay/movement could be the same.

I’m a classic/modern halo fan but I know Halo 3 isn’t perfect like most people say it is. Halo 3 has the worse gunplay (in my opinion), vehiclesare too overpowered and has the slowest movement out of all the halo games. IF HI does play like halo 3 then i’ll still play it but I won’t enjoy the game as much (MP). 343i are in a corner with the gameplay/movement, since they will be making the classic halo fans mad or modern halo fans. I think modern halo fans will be pushed away in HI since I belive 343i will be mainly focusing on classic halo fans and going.

979

> 2533274833081329;977:
> > 2535416837427175;976:
> > I dont want to be walking around all game. Rather have the ability to run
>
> What’s the difference between walking and running that makes that difference for you?
>
> Not an insult or sarcastic question, by the way.

To get to places faster, if someone is carrying the flag in a ctf game, i dont want to walk to try to catch up to them, doesnt make sense.

980

> 2535416837427175;979:
> > 2533274833081329;977:
> > > 2535416837427175;976:
> > > I dont want to be walking around all game. Rather have the ability to run
> >
> > What’s the difference between walking and running that makes that difference for you?
> >
> > Not an insult or sarcastic question, by the way.
>
> To get to places faster, if someone is carrying the flag in a ctf game, i dont want to walk to try to catch up to them, doesnt make sense.

So is it just the speed then? What if we just made everyone move really fast, but no actual Sprint button?

Getting to places is the map’s responsibility, it determines whether you’re meant to get from Point A to Point B in X amount of time.

981

> 2533274833081329;980:
> > 2535416837427175;979:
> > > 2533274833081329;977:
> > > > 2535416837427175;976:
> > > > I dont want to be walking around all game. Rather have the ability to run
> > >
> > > What’s the difference between walking and running that makes that difference for you?
> > >
> > > Not an insult or sarcastic question, by the way.
> >
> > To get to places faster, if someone is carrying the flag in a ctf game, i dont want to walk to try to catch up to them, doesnt make sense.
>
> So is it just the speed then? What if we just made everyone move really fast, but no actual Sprint button?
>
> Getting to places is the map’s responsibility, it determines whether you’re meant to get from Point A to Point B in X amount of time.

Do you not agree with having sprint in halo? I wanna hear your ideas