The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
> > > >
> > > > Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2.
> >
> > You don’t really have an argument because top speed requires sprinting. When the situation dictates, Spartans (clearly) need to sprint in order to achieve maximum speed, which means (just like Chief sprinting away in that clip) sprint is much more realistic and true to lore.
> >
> > Also Chief had a weapon in his hand at the end of the fight with Regret, but clearly the situation dictated that it was more important that he moved as fast as physically possible so he either holstered it or threw it away intentionally in favor of sprinting away from the situation (lest he literally become glassed just to satisfy your anti sprint requirements). Even in classic Halo games, Bungie reinforced that top speed cannot be accomplished when walking around with a weapon at the ready.
> >
> >
> > Plus (in regards to Halo Infinite), when you’ve got traitors like Mickey running around in your formation you definitely don’t want them to walk around everywhere with their weapon at the ready at all times… Especially if they’re standing behind you.
>
> So, you admit that you have to throw your weapons away to achieve maximum speed (which is true), but this doesn’t fit into gameplay, because you have to drag your weapons always with you in multiplayer and in the campaign (for the most part).
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> > I can’t agree with classic movement. By today’s standards and industry developments when it comes to revolutionizing games, it’s always a step forward, not backwards. We were limited in the past with what engines could do, and while nostalgia can run rampant in the minds of people who loved past experiences, the Halo franchise as a while literally cannot go back to classic movement.
> >
> > It’s not feasible and only slows down and restricts gameplay immensely. Happy 5 is my favorite engine to play on of any Happy game to date simply because of the vast amount of options and mechanics readily available to the player. It emphasizes strategy and multiple more playstyles than the simple run-n-gun, grenades, and melee. The reason I love Halo so much is maps are aesthetically prepared based on the tools we have available. Older maps we’re so simple. So boring. Look at what we get no compared to the past.
> >
> > It’s a no-brainer to keep what we have and keep moving forward.
>
> 1) What has sprint to do with “revolutionizing” games? Sprint existed back then in several games, it’s not a new mechanic. Sprint & Clamber just slow down the gameplay, but to realize that, you have to see the bigger picture and calculate various factors (Stretching the maps, Halos Sandbox, no teleporters & man cannons anymore (dev. made maps), Cat-Mouse Gameplay, waiting to recharge your shields, radar has become useless, putting your gun down for every single animation, not able to turn 360 at full speed, limit the players view) etc. etc.
>
> 2) Restricts the gameplay? Nah, the less abilities you build in your spartan, the more you can get creative with your maps (Like the wheel on zanzibar, or w. vehicles, man cannons, teleporters)
> If you have all these abilities right from the start, you have to design every map around them - which leads to repetitive gameplay, every map plays basicially the same.
>
> 3) What you call “simple Run’n’Gun” is an etablished way to play FPS, while the enhanced mobility trend was there for 4-5 years and is already gone.
>
> 4) I look at what we have now and what I see is the same map over and over again with a different skin. No wonder. The maps with the most likes & bookmarks (For slayer & objectives, made by the community) are the ones with “simple”, good layouts. These maps lead more towards boots on the ground gameplay.
>
> So, if they keep this “we have to copy elements from other games” mentality, it would be more of a “no-brainer” to bring out another game with enhanced mobility and a step backwards. But it doesn’t look like it. It seems more like they are willing to put in work for a new, unique game. It seems like they’ve learned from their mistakes.

  1. Removing sprint also comes with a host of issues. For one, removing sprint and tightening the maps (which, by inference, you seem to be for) makes issues like nade spam worse for one (lest we forget the godawful nade spam on Guardian), especially when you take out evasive abilities like Thrust. Also, there’s nothing about sprint and EM that stops map designers from implementing things like mancannons and teleporters with sprint. Sprint is a speed boost, but it doesn’t make mancannons or teleporters useless and incompatible with the maps. If anything, adding the sheer speed of mancannons and teleporters with the flexible nature of sprint would make the game go a lot faster, which is something you also seem to be for.

“Radar is useless”. That’s not only completely baseless, but false. The radar is still a great tool even with sprint.

”Cat-mouse gameplay”. That runs completely contrary to how I’ve seen sprint is used. Sprint, if anything, leads to far more gunfights because of its interception value, not constant running away. Running away from a gunfight is near impossible with sprint because it’s balanced by the recharge time. If someone got away from you with sprint, you simply have terrible positioning or bad engagement timing.

  1. Care to tell me how EM has affected the offensive capability of vehicles or the sheer speed of mancannons and teleporters? Mancannons, teleporters, and vehicles can still coexist with EM nicely. Sprint still isn’t outrunning a mongoose, and it’s not winning a race against a teleporter.

Also, Classic is restricting in the sense that it takes away many of your raw movement options. In that sense, there is no movement style more limiting than classic.

Also, by removing sprint, you also take away the flanking and tactical value that comes with it. How do you remedy that? Designing flank and pinch routes? Designing maps around such routes would hit map design diversity.

  1. Despite Run N’ Gun being supposedly established, it’s still boring to me and many others. Some of us also like EM, do we just get hung out to dry then because we don’t like what is supposedly “established”?

  2. Maps can still be diverse with EM. Maps in games like Titanfall 2 are very diverse and that game is the definition of enhanced mobility, even with the maps being designed around the abilities. Map diversity is the fault of not EM centric design, but the map designers themselves. EM can still function great on maps with wildly different designs than the ones we have in H5.

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> > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > >
> > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> >
> > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
>
> Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2. Your argument is invalid- you may not like it but sprinting will always be more realistic and true to lore.

Look where he jumps in the water after killing Regret and running from the beam. Notice how we can’t do that in the games either. The second we crouch under the water, we die.

Look where Chief doesn’t tire after Sprinting that distance, if this was Halo Reach or 4, he would stop running after a certain point, and he would die. Even in Halo 5 the Thruster pack activates to help him get that speed when Sprinting, which he doesn’t have in that cutscene.

Lore was always some copout argument that barely held water (ha, water) in the first place, it’s just always “conveniently” used to talk about Sprint. But when it comes to melee, Dual Wielding (Miranda with her Shotgun and SMG?), swimming, going prone, etc. Suddenly people don’t have much to say. A bunch of people on both sides of the Sprint argument want to get rid of Spartan Charge, but what about the lore of Spartans running into brick walls as hard as they can? They’re armored, they should be able to do it.

Gameplay mechanics are always different from lore. Always.

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> > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > >
> > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> >
> > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
>
> Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2. Your argument is invalid- you may not like it but sprinting will always be more realistic and true to lore.

Was ist das?
Did someone forget something along the way?

The lore can so easily be made to make sprint irrelevant for Spartans. It takes but a small paragraph.

764

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> > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > >
> > > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
> >
> > Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2. Your argument is invalid- you may not like it but sprinting will always be more realistic and true to lore.
>
> Was ist das?
> Did someone forget something along the way?
>
> The lore can so easily be made to make sprint irrelevant for Spartans. It takes but a small paragraph.

If any Halo was lore accurate, spartans would be sprinting ridiculously fast.

765

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> > 2533274806679134;751:
> > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> >
> > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> >
> > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
>
> Change isn’t progressive unless it actually makes progress. Change can just as easily be regressive. I consider things like the addition of online play, forge, theater, custom game browser,… to be progressive. I consider things like sprint, thrust, ads, clamber,… to be regressive.

I get your point. But I disagree. Just to be clear. So you find a super soldier, with power armor lumbering around like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster to be satisfying? As well as engaging for new players to Halo?

How is aiming down the sights regressive? How is a basic human function like sprinting regressive? I would agree that if it was like Halo 4’s MP with random armor abilities. But Halo 5’s, I believe is well balanced.

766

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> > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > >
> > > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
> >
> > Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2. Your argument is invalid- you may not like it but sprinting will always be more realistic and true to lore.
>
> Was ist das?
> Did someone forget something along the way?
>
> The lore can so easily be made to make sprint irrelevant for Spartans. It takes but a small paragraph.
>

I’d just like to add something to this. I just went back through and watched a section of Forward Unto Dawn, because I swore I could remember something that I felt was relevant… and I found it… at ~1:04, there are cadets from Corbulo Academy, trying desperately to get a Warthog running in order to escape the Covy attack. One marine is trying to hit Jackal marksmen armed with carbines, at range, on the other side of some kind of bridge (I think), but she’s using an AR and can’t hit them. She sees a carbine lying in some wreckage, picks it up and takes out one of the Jackals, then looks around before she returns to trying to get the Warthog running. As she looks, she sees 3 more Jackals drop as they take bullets from somewhere.

The camera pans to Chief… who is running full bore… on the other side of the bridge… with nothing but a pistol and he’s firing as he runs. He’s also pretty -Yoink!- accurate with a pistol, given the range, while running and there’s no mistaking the fact that he’s moving fast. In fact, at one point, he actually does swing one arm… albeit not very much… and he does so while he is looking down. What is noteworthy about it is that there is absolutely no speed change when he does this and it actually appears that in doing so, he is trying to slow himself as he gets to the spot where he jumps down from that side of the structure… not go faster.

Now I could just as easily say according to sprint fans, Chief couldn’t possibly have done that, he would’ve had to drop his weapon to his side and swung his arms to go that fast across that open terrain and hope those Jackals missed him. I could just as easily say your argument is invalid. You may not like it, but Spartans have always been able to run at high speed while firing weapons at the same time.

767

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> > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > >
> > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > >
> > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> >
> > Change isn’t progressive unless it actually makes progress. Change can just as easily be regressive. I consider things like the addition of online play, forge, theater, custom game browser,… to be progressive. I consider things like sprint, thrust, ads, clamber,… to be regressive.
>
> I get your point. But I disagree. Just to be clear. So you find a super soldier, with power armor lumbering around like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster to be satisfying? As well as engaging for new players to Halo?
>
> How is aiming down the sights regressive? How is a basic human function like sprinting regressive? I would agree that if it was like Halo 4’s MP with random armor abilities. But Halo 5’s, I believe is well balanced.

Like I said before, you perceive them as walking as Frankenstein’s Monster, but what if they were just always Sprinting? You call it a basic human function, but Spartans are not basic humans, so why should they need to follow the “rules” of human function so strictly?

Look at DOOM. He’s wearing power armor, but no one considers him slow and lumbering, yet he doesn’t Sprint.

You call ADS a basic human function, despite the fact that it’s already established that their visor does the zooming for them so they don’t have to manually aim the gun. So “lore-wise”, it doesn’t make sense for Spartans to need to use ADS compared to the zoom we’ve had before.

768

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> > > > 2535473481267884;753:
> > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > > >
> > > > Ah, the good old “Lore” Argument. But Spartans are able to keep their gun up while sprinting, what about that, Mr. more progressive?
> > >
> > > Yeah it’s pretty solid. Imagine if Chief would have insisted on putzing along instead of sprinting after he killed the Prophet of Regret… Under your logic he shouldn’t have ran as fast as he could so Chief should have just been killed in the middle of H2. Your argument is invalid- you may not like it but sprinting will always be more realistic and true to lore.
> >
> > Was ist das?
> > Did someone forget something along the way?
> >
> > The lore can so easily be made to make sprint irrelevant for Spartans. It takes but a small paragraph.
> >
>
> I’d just like to add something to this. I just went back through and watched a section of Forward Unto Dawn, because I swore I could remember something that I felt was relevant… and I found it… at ~1:04, there are cadets from Corbulo Academy, trying desperately to get a Warthog running in order to escape the Covy attack. One marine is trying to hit Jackal marksmen armed with carbines, at range, on the other side of some kind of bridge (I think), but she’s using an AR and can’t hit them. She sees a carbine lying in some wreckage, picks it up and takes out one of the Jackals, then looks around before she returns to trying to get the Warthog running. As she looks, she sees 3 more Jackals drop as they take bullets from somewhere.
>
> The camera pans to Chief… who is running full bore… on the other side of the bridge… with nothing but a pistol and he’s firing as he runs. He’s also pretty -Yoink!- accurate with a pistol, given the range, while running and there’s no mistaking the fact that he’s moving fast. In fact, at one point, he actually does swing one arm… albeit not very much… and he does so while he is looking down. What is noteworthy about it is that there is absolutely no speed change when he does this and it actually appears that in doing so, he is trying to slow himself as he gets to the spot where he jumps down from that side of the structure… not go faster.
>
> Now I could just as easily say according to sprint fans, Chief couldn’t possibly have done that, he would’ve had to drop his weapon to his side and swung his arms to go that fast across that open terrain and hope those Jackals missed him. I could just as easily say your argument is invalid. You may not like it, but Spartans have always been able to run at high speed while firing weapons at the same time.

You can say whatever you want to say… Doesn’t make it true. The fact that every weapon is lowered for sprint doesn’t have to be static- as long as there are two BMS’ to choose between.

Sure there are indeed videos of Spartans sprinting with a pistol, like Kat in the Reach promo. Sprinting whilst shooting with a pistol is pretty realistic sure, but how many examples can you come up where Spartans are sprinting while firing assault rifles, sniper rifles, or worse rocket launchers and/or fuel rods. I’d wager you’ll produce nothing, because it simply doesn’t make sense. If you actually paid attention (close enough to get beyond your fixed bias over this issue) perhaps you’d notice that these Spartans are still moving at different speeds. If they run while firing a pistol they’re still running. They could still walk if necessary so there’s no real argument against the fact that they’re indeed sprinting when the situation calls for it.

The fact of the matter is that competitive gamers would have a freak out if players could sprint while shooting small arms, which is why it’s not existent. Balancing sprint like they have in Halos 4 and 5 is indicative that 343i does indeed listen to the fan base. But personally I’d be great with sprinting with small arms at the ready as a compromise, if that’s what you’re suggesting. Your argument here certainly doesn’t hold any weight against abolishing sprint altogether.

769

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> Sprinting whilst shooting with a pistol is pretty realistic sure, but how many examples can you come up where Spartans are sprinting while firing assault rifles, sniper rifles, or worse rocket launchers and/or fuel rods. I’d wager you’ll produce nothing, because it simply doesn’t make sense. If you actually paid attention (close enough to get beyond your fixed bias over this issue) perhaps you’d notice that these Spartans are still moving at different speeds.

I mean, someone showed you a video of Spartans doing exactly that.

> 2535444702990491;768:
> The fact of the matter is that competitive gamers would have a freak out if players could sprint while shooting small arms, which is why it’s not existent. Balancing sprint like they have in Halos 4 and 5 is indicative that 343i does indeed listen to the fan base.

So it’s gameplay design that determines shooting and movement? As in something in the game is actually based on gameplay and not lore or realism?

If so, then why is “lore” an excuse to put Sprint in but gameplay isn’t a good enough reason to take it out? It doesn’t make sense that Chief can’t literally just pick up a weapon with his left hand and shoot with it, but we lived with that for the better half of 10 years now.

Especially since if we’re going by Halo 4, it’s not very faithful to the “lore” either because Chief tires after running a short distance. How very un-super solider like.

770

[deleted]

771

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> > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> >
> > So you find a super soldier, with power armor lumbering around like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster to be satisfying? As well as engaging for new players to Halo?
>
> Like I said before, you perceive them as walking as Frankenstein’s Monster, but what if they were just always Sprinting?

No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll have to decide whether to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us.

772

I hope it’s like the original game mechanics, it was always fun without the new abilities that HR-H5 gave us. I hope it also gives back the move like in H2 and H3; maybe playable Elites, but we’re gonna have to wait until the gameplay shows us the answers.

773

<mark>Do not make nonconstructive posts.</mark>

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> > > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good bala
>
> No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.

Hey PAL!
Did you see how halo fell with h4 , did you see h5 .Halo with sprint and abilities was the main reason its the lowest selling, worst population ever.Explain why 10 million players left halo without using the cliche excuse ( players moved on)

Halo is halo not cod. If I want fast movement Shir I’ll play GTA 5, titanfall,cod ect.
But don’t YOU DARE -yoink- up halo.
Halo is classic movement I want it classic movement. I rather a halo 3.5 then this -yoinking- excuse of halo game.

STOP TRYING TO FIX WHAT S NOT BROKEN.

774

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> > 2533274833081329;767:
> > > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > >
> > > So you find a super soldier, with power armor lumbering around like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster to be satisfying? As well as engaging for new players to Halo?
> >
> > Like I said before, you perceive them as walking as Frankenstein’s Monster, but what if they were just always Sprinting?
>
> No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.

If you find that you don’t have anything meaningful to contribute to the discussion anymore, you don’t need to say anything. This kind of literal “my way is the best way and your’s is the worst, deal with it or leave” content contains nothing of value and is just waste of space on the forums.

775

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> > > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good bala
> >
> > No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.
>
> Hey PAL!
> Did you see how halo fell with h4 , did you see h5 .Halo with sprint and abilities was the main reason its the lowest selling, worst population ever.Explain why 10 million players left halo without using the cliche excuse ( players moved on)
>
> Halo is halo not cod. If I want fast movement Shir I’ll play GTA 5, titanfall,cod ect.
> But don’t YOU DARE -yoink- up halo.
> Halo is classic movement I want it classic movement. I rather a halo 3.5 then this -yoinking- excuse of halo game.
>
> STOP TRYING TO FIX WHAT S NOT BROKEN.

Although I don’t completely agree with the person that’s being disagreed with about ‘refusal to embrace modern Halo’, with the 343 Halo games’ change of developers, artstyle, questionable campaigns and story choices - there were many reasons for Halo 4 and 5 not agreeing with a lot of the community, especially H5’s misleading marketing, lack of split-screen, poor customization options, micro-transactions and (debatably) the worst campaign in Halo’s history (the lack of Chief missions would have probably been a big turnoff on the story side); I doubt sprint and Spartan abilities were the main reasons for H5’s poor sales (although it was likely a contributing factor for the fans of the older games)

776

<mark>Do not make nonconstructive posts.</mark>

> 2533274830420921;773:
> > 2535444702990491;771:
> > > 2533274833081329;767:
> > > > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good bala
> >
> > No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.
>
> Hey PAL!
> Did you see how halo fell with h4 , did you see h5 .Halo with sprint and abilities was the main reason its the lowest selling, worst population ever.Explain why 10 million players left halo without using the cliche excuse ( players moved on)
>
> Halo is halo not cod. If I want fast movement Shir I’ll play GTA 5, titanfall,cod ect.
> But don’t YOU DARE -yoink- up halo.
> Halo is classic movement I want it classic movement. I rather a halo 3.5 then this -yoinking- excuse of halo game.
>
> STOP TRYING TO FIX WHAT S NOT BROKEN.

Listen buddy, no one cares how strong your convictions are, if you can’t develop simple senses of civility and laying off Caps Lock, you have no business here on Waypoint. Go back to the YouTube comments and join the rest of your rude little mob.

Here are the facts, and I know you won’t like hearing them:

  • The cause of the population dropoff is completely shrouded in ambiguity. You have no solid evidence whatsoever that EM is the cause, and claiming you do have evidence is intellectual dishonesty at its peak. - The burden of proof falls on the antisprint side to prove gameplay is the cause of the decline, for you’re making the claim. So Mr. Confident McCapsy, present it. Clearly, you seem to have the bulletproof evidence to shoot down all of the pro-sprint side here. - EM in Halo is still vastly different than what it is in CoD. The fundamental Halo ideas of a long TTK, fair starts, and emphasis on teamwork are still here. Halo is still unique and has stayed true to the essential essences that the community generally agrees are the foundation of the identity with H5. The identity beyond that though is ambiguous.Quote me and insult me all you want, bucko. Facts are facts.
777

> 2533274806679134;765:
> > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > How is aiming down the sights regressive? How is a basic human function like sprinting regressive? I would agree that if it was like Halo 4’s MP with random armor abilities. But Halo 5’s, I believe is well balanced.

> 2533274833081329;767:
> > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good balance
> > >
> > > Change isn’t progressive unless it actually makes progress. Change can just as easily be regressive. I consider things like the addition of online play, forge, theater, custom game browser,… to be progressive. I consider things like sprint, thrust, ads, clamber,… to be regressive.
> >
> > I get your point. But I disagree. Just to be clear. So you find a super soldier, with power armor lumbering around like Dr. Frankenstein’s monster to be satisfying? As well as engaging for new players to Halo?
> >
> > How is aiming down the sights regressive? How is a basic human function like sprinting regressive? I would agree that if it was like Halo 4’s MP with random armor abilities. But Halo 5’s, I believe is well balanced.
>
> Like I said before, you perceive them as walking as Frankenstein’s Monster, but what if they were just always Sprinting? You call it a basic human function, but Spartans are not basic humans, so why should they need to follow the “rules” of human function so strictly?
>
> Look at DOOM. He’s wearing power armor, but no one considers him slow and lumbering, yet he doesn’t Sprint.
>
> You call ADS a basic human function, despite the fact that it’s already established that their visor does the zooming for them so they don’t have to manually aim the gun. So “lore-wise”, it doesn’t make sense for Spartans to need to use ADS compared to the zoom we’ve had before.

Bolds - exactly this!! I agree 1000% with Vegeto30294 here and I’ll add to it.

ADS style zooming in halo is one of thy worst added feature in my opinion and completely unnecessary. Not only does it give your game a generic style zooming which makes it so it doesn’t stand out at all, It also makes ZERO sense lore wise, as Vegeto30294 pointed out. Technologically wise, how is it a superior style of zooming over the other style?? The UNSC must of been high that day when they said this would be a good idea for their Spartans to have. Please someone explain to me how!! Because if I was a Spartan I would be making it look the other way.

ADS style zooming blocks, I repeat BLOCKS more of your target when you zoom in on them. The whole point of zooming in on a target is to see it better is it not?? At least, that’s what I thought. I remember when Halo 5 was coming out and a lot of people were asking why is this replacing the old zoom style (which by the way I never heard anyone ever complain about…EVER! Since CE) and I believe it was Frank saying something like “it’s acting the same, it’s just creating a holographic image in the Spartans hub and is doing the same thing as it was before” or something… If I were a Spartan, why in hell would I want a holographic image of my weapon coming up on my HUD obscuring the view of my target that I’m trying to shoot??? LOLOL! I’m literally laughing as I’m writing this that’s how dumb it is lol I’m surprised he could give that answer with a straight face. We all know the answer was “we’re changing it because that’s how all the other first person shooters look and we want to appeal to those players hoping they’ll come check out our game”

They could easily update the look of the old zooming style. When i zoom in on a target my HUD should be giving me information like "what my target is, the distance of my target, any vulnerable spots, current weapon they’re holding if any and so on, things like this. I still find it beyond laughable that weapons like the pistol in 5, for example, covers up 3/4 of the target when zooming. How is that helping me see my target??? LoL! It’s bloody ridiculous!! My friends and I all laugh at it, everytime we see it. So dumb!

778

<mark>Do not make nonconstructive posts.</mark>

> 2533274944752684;776:
> > 2533274830420921;773:
> > > 2535444702990491;771:
> > > > 2533274833081329;767:
> > > > > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > > > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good bala
> > >
> > > No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.
> >
> > Hey PAL!
> > Did you see how halo fell with h4 , did you see h5 .Halo with sprint and abilities was the main reason its the lowest selling, worst population ever.Explain why 10 million players left halo without using the cliche excuse ( players moved on)
> >
> > Halo is halo not cod. If I want fast movement Shir I’ll play GTA 5, titanfall,cod ect.
> > But don’t YOU DARE -yoink- up halo.
> > Halo is classic movement I want it classic movement. I rather a halo 3.5 then this -yoinking- excuse of halo game.
> >
> > STOP TRYING TO FIX WHAT S NOT BROKEN.
>
> Listen buddy, no one cares how strong your convictions are, if you can’t develop simple senses of civility and laying off Caps Lock, you have no business here on Waypoint. Go back to the YouTube comments and join the rest of your rude little mob.
>
> Here are the facts, and I know you won’t like hearing them:
>
>
> - The cause of the population dropoff is completely shrouded in ambiguity. You have no solid evidence whatsoever that EM is the cause, and claiming you do have evidence is intellectual dishonesty at its peak. - The burden of proof falls on the antisprint side to prove gameplay is the cause of the decline, for you’re making the claim. So Mr. Confident McCapsy, present it. Clearly, you seem to have the bulletproof evidence to shoot down all of the pro-sprint side here. - EM in Halo is still vastly different than what it is in CoD. The fundamental Halo ideas of a long TTK, fair starts, and emphasis on teamwork are still here. Halo is still unique and has stayed true to the essential essences that the community generally agrees are the foundation of the identity with H5. The identity beyond that though is ambiguous.Quote me and insult me all you want, bucko.

I was going to ignore you and move on to other threads.But clearly you have no idea what your taking about “ambiguity” “Go on YouTube”.

The way you can’t make a valid argument to my points is laughable pal.All those facts you said are not facts its just your opinion,your the one who should go play COD .
The only reason I write in caps lock because people like you who flicker through the dictionary write whatever they want don’t understand anything halo related .

How can you dismiss facts and create your own Yoinking statement.Unbelievable I really feel sorry for you buddy.Its pretty sad and pathetic attacking people trying to state there opinion

I could go on but your just not worth my time.#Make halo great again.

779

> 2535464451695009;770:
> > 2533274944752684;761:
> > 1. Removing sprint also comes with a host of issues. For one, removing sprint and tightening the maps (which, by inference, you seem to be for) makes issues like nade spam worse for one (lest we forget the godawful nade spam on Guardian), especially when you take out evasive abilities like Thrust.
>
> Grenade spam is all about what the sandbox and map designers want from the game, and not sprint or the lack thereof. By spawning in with grenades, being able to have more than one grenade of each type at a time, making the blast radii large and damage falloff miniscule, placing multiple frequent grenade spawns on maps, and allowing players to pick up dead players’ grenades, grenade spam is going to be inevitable. And that doesn’t include changing various movement settings such as strafe acceleration and jump height to dodge a grenade’s blast radius. The only way smaller maps are going to worsen grenade spam, if grenades are balanced for the smaller maps with Halo 5’s gameplay, is if they are designed like Halo 5’s maps with many pathways and few actual battle areas that allow players to have complete movement control of their character.
>
>
>
>
> > “Radar is useless”. That’s not only completely baseless, but false. The radar is still a great tool even with sprint.
>
> With radar’s reduced radius in comparison to previous games, and sprint’s faster speed than running in previous games, radar isn’t as necessary to use or have anymore due to audio cues that might be heard at relatively the same distance. The only use I see with the current radar is just being more aware that a firefight is about to happen, which is what 343 intended to do with their iteration of the radar. They did introduce a 25m radar for a little bit, but didn’t do anything outside of probably getting data to evaluate that change.
>
>
>
>
> > ”Cat-mouse gameplay”. That runs completely contrary to how I’ve seen sprint is used. Sprint, if anything, leads to far more gunfights because of its interception value, not constant running away. Running away from a gunfight is near impossible with sprint because it’s balanced by the recharge time. If someone got away from you with sprint, you simply have terrible positioning or bad engagement timing.
>
> Having a long time-to-kill alongside sprint does kind of encourage cat-and-mouse gameplay, which 343 has kind of solved with not charging shields, like you stated. However, sprint does nothing for how the map is and can be played. It’s all on the map designer. If two games have the exact same sandbox and maps, but one has sprint and the other doesn’t, then what’s the difference in how the map plays and flows other than having a delay for being able to shoot? A somewhat relevant example would be Pinnacle from Halo Reach and Ascension from Halo 2.
>
>
>
>
> > 2. [snip] Also, by removing sprint, you also take away the flanking and tactical value that comes with it. How do you remedy that? Designing flank and pinch routes? Designing maps around such routes would hit map design diversity.
>
> Again, maps are designed the way they are regardless of the inclusion of sprint. The maps in Counter-Strike, a non-sprint game, are designed for flanking and tactical options, just like Halo 5’s maps are. Map design and movement mechanics aren’t as intertwined as you think they are, unless you’re talking about Gears or any cover-based shooter, but that’s different. Map size sure is, but design? Not at all.
>
>
>
>
> > 3. Despite Run N’ Gun being supposedly established, it’s still boring to me and many others. Some of us also like EM, do we just get hung out to dry then because we don’t like what is supposedly “established”?
>
> Do anti-sprinters get hung out to dry because they don’t like what’s happened with gameplay? We all have to remember that this goes both ways. No one’s worth more than anyone else unless we’re talking money.

Hey man, sorry for being so late. Today’s been a bit of a rollercoaster, I hope you understand. Life and all.

Anyway, point 1.

Grenade spam is inevitable, yes. I’m not saying it’s a solvable issue. What I am saying is that shrinking the maps thus increasing the effect of splash damage makes it worse and incentivizes the behavior. This point attacks the supposed benefit of Classic that maps are smaller. Also, this doesn’t strictly relate to sprint. Here in this thread, all of EM is on the board. So when you take out moves like Thrust, you have incentivized grenade spam because a spammer knows that a bunch of grenades are gonna be near undodgeable with smaller maps and no Thrust move. This is a big reason why I’ve stopped playing MCC online, because H2-3 always have frustrating nade spam problems that are much worse than the ones I experience on H5.

  1. This runs completely contrary to all of my experience in Silver, Gold, and Plat (even playing some diamonds here and there). The radar has always been a golden tool in my H5 experience, regardless of whether or not someone is sprinting.

  2. Sorry man, I’m going to have to contest this one based on sheer experience. A comparison of Rat Race in H5 and in MCC in my experience has always seen more pinches and flanks than in the H5 remake than in CE. In CE, a lot of the time it was just a big team gunfight in the L-shaped halls next to the big open square. It’s never been about big flank plays or intercepting sight lines from behind because the speeds are equal and you don’t get that imbalance that Sprint provides. This is all my experience, do note that.

  3. And this is again where my experience with classic comes in. Classic, in my experience, has always been about head-to-head gunfights. When I’m not being spawnkilled in it, it’s always been 1 big team gunfight with all guns blazing, it’s almost never been about coordinated collapses. For example, let’s take Guardian. No matter how coordinated, even when I’m running a custom game, the map is built in a way that only supports head to head gunfights, and I’ve had similar experiences on most classic maps. The classic side always sings the praises of H2-3 map design, and that’s where my complaint about flanking originates. Sprint at least let’s you have the unequal speed to pull collapse, pinch, and cleanup tactics which I’ve always seen to encourage team play and thus I see that as a massive contribution of sprint.

  4. I agree with this. As much as I live the gameplay as is, I acknowledge that a compromise is necessary. Now what that is is much harder.

780

<mark>Do not make nonconstructive posts.</mark>

> 2533274830420921;778:
> > 2533274944752684;776:
> > > 2533274830420921;773:
> > > > 2535444702990491;771:
> > > > > 2533274833081329;767:
> > > > > > 2533274806679134;765:
> > > > > > > 2533274901833242;760:
> > > > > > > > 2533274806679134;751:
> > > > > > > > Halo 5 Guardians movement mechanics are perfectly fine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look, I understand that the “old movement” mechanics are wanted back by the some of the old conservative fans. (I am an OG Halo player, but I have a more progressive view) But they are from 2001. There were hardly any “sprints” back then.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Personally, I think the Spartans should move like super soldiers. Now I don’t want them to handle like Titanfall. But H5G has a good bala
> > > >
> > > > No, they’re not always sprinting when sprint is gone. That literally (by definition) and figuratively makes absolutely zero sense. We’ve already seen that with one BMS they’re clunky, slow moving, boring, bulky robotic Frankenstein mosters. We’ve had plenty of classic Halo experiences prove that, and Halo is simply much better, more fluid, and much more realistic with sprint. I’m confident 343i will make the right decision to keep sprint in Halo Infinite in order to deliver the best possible modern Halo experience. And, just like in Halos 4 and 5 before it, you’ll either choose to get on board with modern Halo with the rest of us or you’ll get left behind with the Classic Halo experience; both completely entrenched in your nostalgia that is now a thing of the past and your stubborn refusal to embrace the future that is modern Halo.
> > >
> > > Hey PAL!
> > > Did you see how halo fell with h4 , did you see h5 .Halo with sprint and abilities was the main reason its the lowest selling, worst population ever.Explain why 10 million players left halo without using the cliche excuse ( players moved on)
> > >
> > > Halo is halo not cod. If I want fast movement Shir I’ll play GTA 5, titanfall,cod ect.
> > > But don’t YOU DARE -yoink- up halo.
> > > Halo is classic movement I want it classic movement. I rather a halo 3.5 then this -yoinking- excuse of halo game.
> > >
> > > STOP TRYING TO FIX WHAT S NOT BROKEN.
> >
> > Listen buddy, no one cares how strong your convictions are, if you can’t develop simple senses of civility and laying off Caps Lock, you have no business here on Waypoint. Go back to the YouTube comments and join the rest of your rude little mob.
> >
> > Here are the facts, and I know you won’t like hearing them:
> >
> >
> > - The cause of the population dropoff is completely shrouded in ambiguity. You have no solid evidence whatsoever that EM is the cause, and claiming you do have evidence is intellectual dishonesty at its peak. - The burden of proof falls on the antisprint side to prove gameplay is the cause of the decline, for you’re making the claim. So Mr. Confident McCapsy, present it. Clearly, you seem to have the bulletproof evidence to shoot down all of the pro-sprint side here. - EM in Halo is still vastly different than what it is in CoD. The fundamental Halo ideas of a long TTK, fair starts, and emphasis on teamwork are still here. Halo is still unique and has stayed true to the essential essences that the community generally agrees are the foundation of the identity with H5. The identity beyond that though is ambiguous.Quote me and insult me all you want, bucko.
>
> I was going to ignore you and move on to other threads.But clearly you have no idea what your taking about “ambiguity” “Go on YouTube”.
>
> The way you can’t make a valid argument to my points is laughable pal.All those facts you said are not facts its just your opinion,your the one who should go play COD .
> The only reason I write in caps lock because people like you who flicker through the dictionary write whatever they want don’t understand anything halo related .
>
> How can you dismiss facts and create your own Yoinking statement.Unbelievable I really feel sorry for you buddy.Its pretty sad and pathetic attacking people trying to state there opinion
>
> I could go on but your just not worth my time.#Make halo great again.

OK, statement number one: holier-than-thou approach that’s quite usual of OxDav and ad hominem.

Next paragraph: presents no argument or evidence on why the facts I stated, which are established and even accepted by much of the antisprint side, and more ad hominems.

More ad hominems.

Listen buddy, it’s not my problem if you don’t acknowledge that your logic has more holes than Swiss cheese. Everyone around you already has.