The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
661

> 2535460567076971;658:
> While I most definitely agree that the old movement mechanics would be great, we have to look at this logically. The classic movement style does not work in the modern gaming industry. Most of the gaming population is under 18, and most of those people are going to want extra armor abilities. You can’t deny that when you first picked up the game you have fun experimenting with all the new toys your armor had. To keep the series alive they need to innovate, not devolve.
>
> And from a lore perspective, how would S-IVs go from having all pf these abilities to none? It makes no sense. You can explain it by saying we wont be playing as S-IVs in multiplayer, but if we do that how do we explain the REQ system that will be implemented, how do we explain armor customization on a large level, and how do we explain the lore of matchmaking? The REQ system (or some other microtransaction) without a doubt will be there, so we need to get lots of items from each “pack”. If we have downgraded so much, how do we explain getting huge amounts of armor and weapons? And if we do downgrade to off-brand master chiefs (like in halo 3), how do we explain armor customization? We only had a few options to pick from. We are going to have a lot, so if we have all this armor, why do none of them have any abilities? And currently, matchmaking is a simulation inside of the UNSC Infinity, just like in halo 4. If we don’t have sprint, that means we don’t have the Infinity to test matchmaking, which wouldn’t make sense, as the Infinity is the flagship of the Reclaimer trilogy.
>
> All-in-all, I would love some classic movement, but it isn’t as fun, does not draw in new players, does not keep players in (aside from the older part of the community, which is much smaller than the newer part), and does not work with the lore in more basic fashion.

Sry, but I have to disagree
I’m still new to this Forum, I don’t know how I can quote single paragraphs, so I’ll just do it with numbers

  1. Could you please describe what exactly “the modern gaming industry” is. You consider it as a disadvantage (when they remove these abilities) - I consider this as an advantage. Because there is no game like Halo (with the real, core gameplay) it would draw way more attention. There is no “classic” or “modern” Gameplay - if this specific gameplay is fun, it’s good - that simple.
    The enchanced Mobility thing was a short living trend - it was there for a couple of years and it completly failed.

Fun Fact: Look at the game populations or which games were well recieved in the recent years. You have Battlefield 1, a boots on the ground game. Obviously you can’t design a enchanced mobility game for WW1. BF5 is coming out, another WW Game. COD WW2 (Even though it was by far not the best one, at least the feedback wasn’t as bad as Infinite Warfare)
Look at Battle Royale (I’m not interested in BR, but I think that it’s a good example). It came out of nowhere (There were several games out there, but none of them were really popular) Now it sits on the top. Both of them play very slow, even though there is sprint in it. I know that that’s the point of a survival game - I’m just trying to prove, that you don’t have to fly across the map to experience some fun gameplay.
Look at Overwatch, it came out of nowhere. I haven’t played Overwatch yet, but correct me if I’m wrong - isn’t Overwatch known for it’s Run’n Gun Gameplay? Exactly like the Halo Titles with the real, core gameplay? I know that there are some abilities and you can’t compare it 1:1, but Halo also had some different things like Equipement, Powerups, teleporters etc.

So I’ll ask you again: What exactly is the “modern gaming industry” for you?

  1. You have problems with removing this things from a lore perspective, but you have no problem them getting into the game out of nowhere? Why couldn’t you sprint, clamber, ground pound, spartan charge, slide etc. in the earlier games? How does that make sense to you then? Or do you really want to justify the absense of clamber with an outdated armor?
    Lore should never effect Gameplay, otherwise you will run into tons of problems and plotholes. It’s just a video game and not a documentary, it should be fun in the first place. Otherwise I would have to ask these people: Why I’m not able to crawl, do a flip, dance, eat, take off my helmet and take a sleep, fly out of boundaries, book a ticket to Miami, play the newest version of Tetris on a UNSC Computer, swim etc.
    Btw, John is a Spartan II, not IV. To summ this topic up: Most people are casual gamers. They look at the trailers, they will eventually watch some gameplay demo and if they like it, they will buy it.

  2. You have not one single evidence for that. The only thing you can refer to is the sales numbers & population of the games. I don’t think that I have to tell you which games were more popular. Not only that, you can compare the ratings, all big Youtubers, the community. It looks more like the majority of the fandom is begging for the real, core gameplay.

662

> 2535460567076971;658:
> While I most definitely agree that the old movement mechanics would be great, we have to look at this logically. The classic movement style does not work in the modern gaming industry. Most of the gaming population is under 18, and most of those people are going to want extra armor abilities. You can’t deny that when you first picked up the game you have fun experimenting with all the new toys your armor had. To keep the series alive they need to innovate, not devolve.
>
> And from a lore perspective, how would S-IVs go from having all pf these abilities to none? It makes no sense. You can explain it by saying we wont be playing as S-IVs in multiplayer, but if we do that how do we explain the REQ system that will be implemented, how do we explain armor customization on a large level, and how do we explain the lore of matchmaking? The REQ system (or some other microtransaction) without a doubt will be there, so we need to get lots of items from each “pack”. If we have downgraded so much, how do we explain getting huge amounts of armor and weapons? And if we do downgrade to off-brand master chiefs (like in halo 3), how do we explain armor customization? We only had a few options to pick from. We are going to have a lot, so if we have all this armor, why do none of them have any abilities? And currently, matchmaking is a simulation inside of the UNSC Infinity, just like in halo 4. If we don’t have sprint, that means we don’t have the Infinity to test matchmaking, which wouldn’t make sense, as the Infinity is the flagship of the Reclaimer trilogy.
>
> All-in-all, I would love some classic movement, but it isn’t as fun, does not draw in new players, does not keep players in (aside from the older part of the community, which is much smaller than the newer part), and does not work with the lore in more basic fashion.

I can agree with that, but what about halo as a franchise? They need to sell the game, and draw in new fans for the future of halo. Taking away what lots of new people want is not the way to do it.

663

> 2535460567076971;662:
> I can agree with that, but what about halo as a franchise? They need to sell the game, and draw in new fans for the future of halo. Taking away what lots of new people want is not the way to do it.

Clearly taking away what a lot of old people wanted didn’t help either.

A good game is a good game. You don’t need to pander to the new people in order to get their attention. That’s how you end up with something like Halo 4.

If the gameplay is good, new people will pick up the game anyway. How often are they going to dissect the game for specific mechanics and judge how the game affects them as a whole before deeming it as bad and putting it away?

664

> 2535460567076971;657:
> > 2533274889489936;2:
> > As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?
>
> Not necessarily. A good example is the map Truth. It comes from halo 2. In halo 2 and halo 5 you can traverse the map from point 8 to point b at the same speed, and that is because the halo 2 walking speed is much faster than halo 5 walking speed and the map in halo 5 was expanded to a larger proportion in order to accommodate the spartan abilities. So, technically, sprint slowed the game down, because if you are ever not sprinting, which is a lot, you are not traversing the map as fast as you could in halo 2.

Bolded: Nope, Halo 5’s BMS is faster than Halo 2’s BMS.

> 2535460567076971;658:
> While I most definitely agree that the old movement mechanics would be great, we have to look at this logically. The classic movement style does not work in the modern gaming industry. Most of the gaming population is under 18, and most of those people are going to want extra armor abilities. You can’t deny that when you first picked up the game you have fun experimenting with all the new toys your armor had. To keep the series alive they need to innovate, not devolve.
>
> And from a lore perspective, how would S-IVs go from having all pf these abilities to none? It makes no sense. You can explain it by saying we wont be playing as S-IVs in multiplayer, but if we do that how do we explain the REQ system that will be implemented, how do we explain armor customization on a large level, and how do we explain the lore of matchmaking? The REQ system (or some other microtransaction) without a doubt will be there, so we need to get lots of items from each “pack”. If we have downgraded so much, how do we explain getting huge amounts of armor and weapons? And if we do downgrade to off-brand master chiefs (like in halo 3), how do we explain armor customization? We only had a few options to pick from. We are going to have a lot, so if we have all this armor, why do none of them have any abilities? And currently, matchmaking is a simulation inside of the UNSC Infinity, just like in halo 4. If we don’t have sprint, that means we don’t have the Infinity to test matchmaking, which wouldn’t make sense, as the Infinity is the flagship of the Reclaimer trilogy.
>
> All-in-all, I would love some classic movement, but it isn’t as fun, does not draw in new players, does not keep players in (aside from the older part of the community, which is much smaller than the newer part), and does not work with the lore in more basic fashion.

First paragraph:
You’re going to have to back the age thing up, and a better argument as to why classic movement can’t work in today’s gaming industry. “Current year” and an assumption what gamers want on a bucket list is not really water tight.
Of course they can innovate, but the question is, why does it have to be that specific path everyone else already went on, and is it really innovation at that point anymore? Furthermore, “devolve”, it’s not really evolution if they keep the same stuff as Halo 5 without doing much with it, now is it? We’ve seen plenty of features and mechanics come and go. Just because something is removed, doesn’t mean nothing new is implemented instead. Just look at the games 3. > Reach > 4 > 5, or would you call each sequel a devolved version of the previous iteration?
Last thing on that, what exactly is required from a sequel to consider it “evolved”?

Second paragraph:
And when you pull in lore you get the tough question. “Why are implemented features justifiable by lore, but not all?”
-Prone
-Wall hugging
-Blind firing
-Corner leaning
-Melee countering
-Grenade rolling
What’s the story behind no dual wielding? No Armor Abilities? No Equipment? Is that actually relevant anymore?
It doesn’t take a writer-genious-storyteller to come up with actual lore reasons why thimgs are like they are in terms of gameplay. I could probably come up with some in an hour which aren’t half bad.
I just got to ask, how do we not have the Infinity if we lack Sprint?

Third paragraph:
There are other aspects to a game than its movement mechanics to draw an audience with, otherwise games like Mirror’s Edge and whetever other big advanced movement type games came early, would’ve drawn quite the numbers. Got to ask this as well, how well has the new Halos drawn new players and kept them? I mean, you state it, are there numbers to support it? How do you know that is going to happen in the first place?
As for the lore? i343 makes the lore.
i343 makes the gameplay. They can make the gameplay, and if they feel like a lore explanation is needed, they can make one that fits ( or doesn’t, wouldn’t be the first time ). At the end of the day, the game could have the best writing, the best lore, ever written by human hand, you’re not going to play it if you think the gameplay is bad.
But with great gameplay, writing and lore is really not that much of a big deal.

665

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Modern mechanics
have been proved it’s an illision with step by step by you tubers what else can be done.Halo 5 lost 10 million of its fans and gained 500,000 fans .Good math 343i .Return the classic gameplay,don’t build on the h5 gameplay or halo will Fail.

666

> 2533274819051113;651:
> > 2533274826802205;650:
> > It boggles my mind that there’s still people who think sprint and abilities are good for Halo. Apparently two dying games released by 343 isn’t enough proof that the majority of people don’t want them in the franchise.
>
> I personally don’t care about what’s “good for halo”. People claim that Halo 5 is dead but I still find games fairly quickly and I have a blast playing it. People want what they want. How is that mind-boggling?

You should care what’s good for Halo, or eventually Halo will become a second thought, or worst, not around. Microsoft isn’t going to keep throwing big money out for a franchise if it’s not giving back big money. I’m not saying that Halo 4 or 5 hasn’t made any money or anything but they are definitely not as popular as past Halo games nor is Halo one of the in big mainstream games that people are playing and talking about which Isn’t good for many reasons. Halo 5 isn’t dead, I agree… But it isn’t very popular nor was it even when it first came out. Sales are down, and popularity in general is at a huge low, though not as bad as it was during Halo 4 times. The amount of times that I have said “I’m playing Halo tonight” and people said what’s that? …is scary. One could easily argue that Halo isn’t even the face of Microsoft anymore. It’s fine that you like it and such, that’s great, but as a whole, you want halo to be the best it can be. Otherwise, as I said, it may not be around as much or worst, at all.

> 2535460567076971;658:
> While I most definitely agree that the old movement mechanics would be great, we have to look at this logically. The classic movement style does not work in the modern gaming industry. Most of the gaming population is under 18, and most of those people are going to want extra armor abilities.

Bold - I would massively disagree with that. I would say most gamers that spent money are more like late 20’s to mid 30’s. Gaming is accepted Now by Society. It’s not seen as that nerdy thing that people do in their basement anymore. People that are older are the ones that are making money, and spending it. They’re not relying on Mom and Dad to buy them stuff.

Also, logically one could argue that a lot of young people haven’t even played a FPS game without the sprint mechanic, so for them it would be new and different. As many people have pointed out Overwatch doesn’t have a sprint animation (minus 2 charaters) and it’s arguably one of the most popular first person shooters in the last few years.

In my opinion, People don’t care if a game has sprint or not. Have you ever (realistically and honestly here) heard someone say "that game looks AMAZING!! Oh wait… it doesn’t have a Sprint animation, nevermind, I don’t want to play it… lolol The sprint mechanic doesn’t sell games. Games that are engaging, fun and that play well, sells games.

667

I knew playing devils advocate would b fun. >:)
gg guys let’s all hope for classic movement. As I was writing that it was hard not to counter my own points.

668

> 2533274815533909;666:
> You should care what’s good for Halo, or eventually Halo will become a second thought, or worst, not around.

Not going to argue this. However I’m going to offer this point of view.

Most think that what they want is good for Halo.

A long time ago I came to that realisation. After that I want to believe that the Halo I want, is good for the franchise, however my main concern became me. It’s not about the greater good, it’s about what I want, not anyone else. My thoughts, opinions, ideas and suggestions are my own, they are what I want Halo to be, a Halo I want to experience. I want that Halo to be good for the franchise, but I won’t say it is good for the franchise because I can’t be 100% certain.

669

I’ll play devil’s advocate.

A player is not going to need to feel like they have to sprint if they already move fairly fast, which in Halo games you do not.

670

> 2533274889489936;2:
> As in we all have to walk around really slowly and such?

What’s so bad about that? That was the key feature that differinated itself from other FPS games at the time with a huge emphasis on vehicular and infantry combat with a spice of arena elements thrown in. This is what popularized Halo multiplayer because it innovated, not replicated.

671

I heard you move quicker in Halo 3 by walking than in Halo 5 by running.

672

> 2533274951753761;671:
> I heard you move quicker in Halo 3 by walking than in Halo 5 by running.

Not true. The base movement speed in Halo 3 is 2.25 units per second, while in Halo 5 it is 2.59, and the sprint speed is 3.36.

673

> 2533274795123910;668:
> > 2533274815533909;666:
> > You should care what’s good for Halo, or eventually Halo will become a second thought, or worst, not around.
>
> Not going to argue this. However I’m going to offer this point of view.
>
> Most think that what they want is good for Halo.
>
> A long time ago I came to that realisation. After that I want to believe that the Halo I want, is good for the franchise, however my main concern became me. It’s not about the greater good, it’s about what I want, not anyone else. My thoughts, opinions, ideas and suggestions are my own, they are what I want Halo to be, a Halo I want to experience. I want that Halo to be good for the franchise, but I won’t say it is good for the franchise because I can’t be 100% certain.

I’m not saying anything in particular, I’m just saying in general you know. I hear what your saying 100% what I want may be totally different then what someone else wants. I’ve actually said in a lot of posts what I think a happy medium is. I listed things I didn’t even want, but I’m trying to compromise.

I just feel the pro sprint animation people for example won’t even consider trying a Halo game without it as they seem to think it will play exactly like Halo 1-3 which I don’t know why anyone would think that especially with other things added (say like thrusters for example) We’ve tried Halo with the sprint animation for a while now and I know there’s a whole generation of Halo fans that have never really (I know TMCC is out, but that’s not the same) tried it without. I just don’t see the harm in trying you know. If it fails or people don’t like it, then go back to it for the next game you know. The odds of it selling worst are slim to none.

I don’t know, I just feel like too many people are not willing to compromise at all in any area and it’s sad.

674

Don’t get me wrong, clambering feels so good, and I enjoy sprint, but personally, I feel that the Halo 5 game mechanics reward bad teamwork and bad tactical thinking for the vast majority of players. I’m not going to discuss that here, but if you want my reasoning, go to This thread. Anyway, for that reason, I would like to see them disappear for Infinite, and would like to see the return of walk, strafe, jump, crouch base mechanics. Halo 2 anniversary movement speed feels right to me, the jumping could be bumped up just a hair so you don’t feel too restricted, but it would be a great base to start tweaking Halo Infinite movement that wouldn’t require sprint, clamber, or any of the other spartan abilities. Whatever the case, I hope 343 doesn’t try to compromise and do some half breed mutant between “old” Halo base player mechanics and new, that’s just going to suck for the vast majority on both sides, pick one and perfect it.

675

> 2535449076192416;1:
> In my opinion, this game has a really high chance of bringing back the classic gameplay so many old Halo fans have adored! I am so pumped for this!
>
> EDIT: Wow, I didn’t expect such diverse opinions on this subject. The Halo community really is split in half. I’m sorry you have to deal with us, 343 :confused:
>
> EDIT: 500 comments. What have I done?

All I hope that it has classic gameplay mixed with modern. A bit of both for old fans, and new fans.

676

Halo youtubers need to combine make a poll – Return halo infinite to classic gameplay or don’t buy.Get a million or more people to agree on this then finally 343 will need to bring classic gameplay back or risk losing the last of the fans.

677

> 2533274830420921;676:
> Halo youtubers need to combine make a poll – Return halo infinite to classic gameplay or don’t buy.Get a million or more people to agree on this then finally 343 will need to bring classic gameplay back or risk losing the last of the fans.

We’ve had multiple polls from multiple people going in multiple directions. Another one isn’t going to do anything.

678

I absolutely think Infinite needs to go back to a more classic style of gameplay. The game seems to have just taken so many steps away from the classic feel that made the series as popular as it is. I think the whole reason a lot of people left the series is because you can just ‘feel’ a difference when playing Guardians. Is it a badly made game? No. It arguably has some of the best weapon balancing in the whole series, but it just doesn’t feel like Halo anymore and definitely needs to back peddle a bit on the abilities. Now, I know a lot of people are going to say “We don’t need another clone of Halo 3” or “That’s why there’s MCC” but wanting that old Halo style of gameplay back doesn’t mean just making the same game over and over. Just look at the last Doom. That game didn’t just go back to it’s roots, it went back to them with a vengeance and put it all out on the line. Constant sprinting base speed, no reloading, health and armor pick ups. Were people screaming it was an old and out of date style or that it was just a rehash of the originals? Heck no, people were arguing it should be game of the year. That’s because first and foremost, your gameplay should be identifiable as your specific style. Two minutes into playing you should go “Oh yeah, this is undoubtedly Halo” and Guardians was more like “What exactly am I playing?” When you start throwing everything in that all the other shooters are doing (ADS, Advanced Movement) it just becomes more bland white noise. It ceases to be special or identifiable and starts becoming interchangeable with all the other FPS games out there. I don’t think 343 had nefarious intentions, quite the opposite, I think they genuinely wanted to make a great Halo game and just missed the mark. It happens. But this is where they can figure out what they have to do to right the course. It might sound weird but I think the best way forward is to go backwards.

679

Before even getting to sprint itself, I feel like the appeal of “advanced mobility” in general has been vastly overstated. Titanfall started the trend and it has never found the same mainstream success, albeit due to other circumstances such as the lack of content in TF1 and the terrible release date of TF2. By all accounts a lot of people do enjoy Titanfall’s gameplay, but that doesn’t seem to be enough to have translated into long term success with sales and player retention.

CoD has remained at the top of the “advanced mobility” trend, but public opinion on it soured on it in less than three years leading to one of the most disliked youtube video of all time and a later return to boots on the ground MP. Meanwhile Halo 5 failed to set the world on fire and I am left wondering why people are so adamant that this type of gameplay is what the larger gaming public demands.

As for sprint itself, I tend to be of the mind that most people don’t care how a player gets from point A to B as long as they feel they can do it in a fair and reasonable timeframe. Wider FOVs, teleporters, man cannons, lifts, moving walkways, reasonably sized maps, higher base movement speed, etc. I just don’t buy the argument that sprint is “just what people expect” when there was never any indication that Halo was going to decline severely without it. We have never gotten a “Halo 4” with classic movement that fell flat on its face we can point to and say: “See, people need to be able to sprint.”

I’m willing to admit when I am wrong, I just want to actually be shown that I am wrong in a concrete way rather than being told.

At the end of the day I just want to be able to enjoy playing a new Halo game again.

680

I know a lot of my friends left halo because of the spartan abilities, its way to different to me how halo used to be. Sprint is in every shooter where halo to me at its core was a run and gun. Bungie innovated not by upgrading its core mechanics but through the sandbox. Things like the elephant In halo 3 can’t exist in halo anymore cuz if you had sprint on sandtrap the elephant will never be able to outrun you. I wouldn’t be as immersed as a odst on Mombasa streets if it had sprint, and sprint on the pillar of autumn would be broken . In my opinion sprint ruins immersion people don’t take in the environment around them. Things like clamber,stabilizers ground pound and spartan charge don’t belong in halo, cool on paper but not good for the game. I wouldn’t mind if things like thrusters/jet pack/hologram(if they return) become a pick up alongside equipment. But here is an idea why not make thrusters a pick up but if you double tap the thrusters you start to sprint and slide that way for those who are a fan of enhanced mobility wouldn’t feel like it’s permanently gone. So In matches 1 or 2 people in matches would have it at a time. I would like 343 to innovate halo without breaking the golden halo triangle. Halo was unique for a time. The vehicle combat is not as fun as it used to be cuz why take a vehicle when I can run there just as fast. Doom is a great example it had a great campaign and stuck true to the original formula (doom 2016 is my first doom) but the multiplayer sucked. All they have to do is increase the base movement speed. I hope halo infinite doesn’t effect the golden halo triangle I know a lot of my friends will come back to halo.