Of course 343 would never do that, they can’t simply make Halo as it was because “lol 2022 need to have sprint because we are unoriginal”
I seriously dont understand the problem with sprint. Why do people want our characters to turtle around the map? This is one of those petty things people whine about that really make no sense and just further confirm that they just want something to complain about.
The funny thing is that some people will use words like “evolution” and “innovation” when referring to things like sprint and slide lol.
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Tell me you didn’t read the start of the threat without telling me you didn’t read the start of the thread
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same thing for me.
and i still not understand why we still need to keep talking about this discusion when its becoming more pointless and worthless since notting is going to chance any more about it.
It honestly just sounds like a bait response lol
Oh you know,
-A disconnect between movement and combat
-Continuous decreased disadvantage or even an actual escape advantage at the press of a single button.
-Map design being affected
-Far less emphasis on fun map movement assets
-Not netting anything overall in terms of map traversal
-If we’re going into lore territory, it’s augmented super soldiers in an advanced exoskeleton which further enhance their capabilities, and sprint reduce their effectiveness by having to lower their weapons to move slightly faster, making them feel more like ordinary humans than enhanced ones, not so super.
So, when you in Halo 5 were in combat, were you “turtling” around?
Also, other options for that are:
-Turning up FoV
-Increase BMS
-Add motion blur to movement, more noises at to speed
-Slightly more bobbing.
Only if you’ve been given the reasons as to why people dislike sprint, and then refuse to understand them regardless if you agree with them.
At that point the issue is not with people disliking something but your personal one where you choose not to even try to understand it.
For example:
You answered this to the above post, and it’s been explained to you on numerous occasions over a couple of threads back in the past.
We can explain it to you, but atleast I’m going to take 20$ for trying to understand it for you, 10$ back if I fail.
Seriously, do you think you’ll change opinion if you suddenly understand it? Are you afraid to change your minds?
Understanding =/ agreeing or having the same opinion.
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If its so bad then dont use it. Like i said, i dont understand why its such a huge problem. A problem so huge that this thread has over 6 thousand replies. What does sprinting do that makes the game so unenjoyable? Again, its just a petty thing people like to complain about to glorify halo 3. Like seriously, all the legit problems that infinite has but people like you choose to whine about a spartan being able to run. It makes no sense. If halo infinite is so trash because of sprint, and halo 3 is so amazing, why cant you just leave and go back to halo 3. Nobody is forcing you to stay here and 343 isnt gonna just up and redesign the game because someone hasnt grown up from halo 3. 343 isnt gonna change it and thats a good thing. Everytime someone tries to explain why sprinting is bad i just cringe, the points you made are so petty it just further supports my arguments. Its not even an argument at this point its more like whining. I probably wont understand why its such a huge problem because in reality it is not a problem at all. Isnt sprinting in infinite just a 10% increase? Just dont use it if its so terrible it makes the game unenjoyable. But stop trying to take the ability from the vast majority of players who like it.
This again…
That exact response has been with the sprint debate since the beginning.
Now think that through thoroughly, apply it to some other mechanic, and the consequences a player would have, and disadvantages they’d put themselves into by adhering to that suggestion.
Do you think maps suddenly realign their geometry to players who would refuse to sprint?
Would it become problematic for other players to escape with sprint against players who refuse to sprint?
Not using sprint doesn’t nullify any effect sprint has on the game from a gameplay point of view as well as design aspects.
And like I said, at this point, with a massive thread to read through, others before it, a plethora of videos on the subject, lots of information.
It’s not “don’t” anymore, it’s leaning more towards “refuse to” or “incapable of”.
I seriously doubt there’s anything you’re going to say which hasn’t been said and answered before. It’s most likely also in this thread, and in quite a few cases, it always starts with “well don’t use it”, and then it’s off to specific scenarios, sprint connected abilities which aren’t related to sprint, map traversal times, combat engagements, changes done to sprint, bring up older game, go back to said older game etc. All of which have been written and answered in this very thread.
You can literally pick any of the aforementioned points in the bulletlist I started with and use a moment to ponder wether or not a person is capable of disliking any of the effects sprint have on the game, and as such if the game would become less enjoyable for them.
Just because you refuse to understand something and find whatever it is “small”, doesn’t mean others do not.
Ah yes, Halo 3. Want to know something else?
It’s basically always the “pro-sprint” side which brings up Halo 3 for whatever reason.
Here we have a perfect example of it being used in an attempt to discredit the anti side in a veiled manner of “game degeneration”. Could just as well have been “just want a copy of Halo X”, when no previous Halo has been mentioned.
Which brings me to this, just because a person isn’t in favour of a single mechanic, doesn’t mean they want to throw everything out and have a carbon copy of an older game. You’re profiling poorly on a single dislike and no other info available. As if sprint is the sole thing in your mind that sets a game “forward” and differentiate it from its predecessors.
I mean, remove Sprint from Halo 5, is it suddenly a carbon copy of Halo 3?
You’ve seen the date on this thread, right? It’s extremely old.
There’s been very little talk about sprint, and the funny part is, for the most part it’s been “people like you” who whined that sprint was too slow.
The actual talk of sprint has died down and many of the game’s issues are taking the front seat on this.
Not only that, but “people like me” are actually capable of talking about several things, I atleast can have issue with desync, lag, lack of content, uneven matches in terms of skill, poor challenge system and so forth.
But sure, reduce what people see as issues with sprint and its many effects on gameplay to “spartan being able to run”.
Only because you think “us people” are simple minded and not thinking individuals able to form personal opinions, and think of “us” as being single track minded as to not being able to devote time for several issues at a time.
That’s what you put on display here.
Oh my, people express their opinions wanting a better game experience for themselves, the audacity. Won’t anyone think of the children?
And on to the next point, “go back to Halo X”.
And because people having an opinion on sprint, on the Infinite forum, it means they’re playing Halo Infinite continuously? Who says they aren’t already playing other games?
Lest we forget that people can post about their inconveniences with something while tolerating it to the degree that they can play it. I don’t know about you but “people like us” can post feedback on things of lesser calibre to a game’s experience than “massive catastrophe”.
Or do you assume that any greviances someone posts about is to them is nothing less than a disaster?
Now, pray tell.
At what point are people allowed to post their feedback and opinions?
If they post on this forum, you mean they play Infinite, but instead of posting they should go to another game.
Am I then to assume that if they’re playing another game, they shouldn’t post about this game, because, well they’re not playing it? Right?
Where’s the window of opportunity here?
Nope.
It’s people who wish to have a better gaming experience with a franchise they like.
How inconcievable.
Did you like Halo 5’s sprint?
Do you enjoy Infinite’s iteration of it?
If so, you’ve got the people who you’re currently trying to wail on for those versions. The feedback from Halo 4 and Halo 5 respectively pretty much shaped how it behaved, of course not to the absolute liking of the “anti” side but i343 did take into consideration some of the issues people had with Sprint.
As such, no problem, it was my pleasure to be part of the process which resulted in something you enjoy.
Now if you dislike any of them, you’ve just defeated your own… Statement?
i343 has indeed redesigned it between iterations to comply more with the feedback provided, offering “people like me” some part of what “we” desire. Mission accomplished on our part. Maybe at the cost of your enjoyment but that’s neither our problem nor concern. Because the same applies in reverse.
And as far as Halo 3 goes, you’re the one bringing it up, based on a distaste for a single mechanic.
As far as a redesign of Halo Infinite is concerned.
Sprint is the most worthless it has been so far, it featured no upgrades in the campaign, only slide is tied to it.
I do not believe they will redesign the game, but there is a possibility that there could be based on how well the game does ( not so good at the moment, but that’s more due to other issues than the actual gameplay ), as other games have gotten major overhauls at some point in their lifetime. A bigger story expansion could see sprint gotten rid of overall with a redesign of the gameplay.
No, I don’t think they will, but you can’t deny the chances are there. Especially considering i343 has changed things up before.
Well, it’s good you have conviction.
However, is that a hint of fear?
You’re just proving you’re willfully refusing to understand it.
In a more illustrative way of putting it:
You:
Fingers in ears
“Lalallala I’m right you’re wrong lalalala”
I mean, you come into a several year old thread, and posts that?
Then when it’s explained again, you regurgitate the same old boring basic word diarreah which is plastered all across this very thread, and you say others are whining?
Did the mirror crack when it facepalmed itself on that?
You’ve pretty much admitted to refusing to understand it, rather than not having the capability of understanding it.
“We” can explain it to you, but we can’t understand it for you.
So what’s the point in keeping it?
Slide can be tied to something else.
Even then, go look at how old the thread is, and question yourself, “Did we know sprint’s speed increase back then”?
Oh look, the same thing I already answered.
If you don’t like abilities and refuse to use them.
Do they stop affecting you as a player and not give others advantages? While giving advantages to those who use them?
That’s some quantum game design right there.
I don’t care for the majority, never have.
And don’t pretend you do, that’s you hiding in the pressumed majority, you use it as a shield to “get it your way”.
I mean, say i343 removes sprint, and the game pop grows with cheers for i343 for removing sprint, am I to expect you to sit idly by or cheer with the community for giving the majority what it likes?
But it pretty much cements the notion of fear, fear of losing sprint.
If you weren’t afraid to lose it, this little “parade” of yours wouldn’t have been written like it was. Chances are, with the mindset you’ve showcased, you wouldn’t even have written anything.
You’re not here to talk sprint, or any other movement mechanic, you’re here to show i343 that there’s support for sprint, as you’re so afraid this thread could convince them otherwise ( at the time of Halo 5 it was said the company was 50/50 on including sprint at all ).
And that concludes it.
You refuse to understand whatever is explained to you, as you’re insecure in your own opinions and think they’ll change if you even attempt to understand something.
The comfort zone of your habits are nice and with the dangers of an changing opinion could lead to new things which aren’t your regular habits is frightening.
And I don’t expect anything less than “you’re wrong” and nothing more, which doesn’t really disprove anything I said. Maybe an attempt at a “reverse uno” card, which doesn’t work because I’ve lived with sprint and many other greviances, which I’ve provided feedback on and seen change to, as well as understanding the other side, which doesn’t mean agreement.
Of course, you could always talk something completely unrelated, trying to have it related, or just ignore most of the post, and pick a few things.
Or a new one “Not going to read that”.
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i know that point.
but the point there are still complaining about it when halo infinite has been release and notting is going to chance any more with it.
there really not going to make a 360 turn on it now since the complain has start about the same thing again.
there is a good reason why there have close the sprint discusion thread for good.
since its done with the discusion and its pointless more.
there have redusce the sprint in halo infinte so there need to deal with it and accept it but no there are not since there wane see it gone for good.
to start a discusion about it again is becoming now pointless more and worthless.
thats something i know a lot not wane hear but its the true now more since there not going doing anything any more with the feedback about it.
sprint is staying in halo infinite how its now and the same go’s for the other mechanics there not wane see its now accept it and deal with.
not happy then not play so easy is it now more.
and if some people are now starting to complain about it and there never have post there feedback about it on this type threads in the time when the game was still in development then its there own fault for not doing it but there most not start complaining about it when its release since its not going to chance any more after its release.
and since this is a 10 year game and for the next 9 years not any new halo game is coming is it total pointless to start to complain now about it.
The most complaints about sprint since release has been that it’s too slow, and that’s not been from the anti-sprint crowd, yet no one who’s tired of the Sprint debate harp on the for taking it up.
Any other time it’s been that it is now a fairly redundant mechanic due to its slow speed, even some pro-sprinters it could just as well be removed if it’s barely any use, as sliding can be implemented differently.
And it doesn’t matter that Infinite released and Sprint is in, a mechanic can be discussed, and that’s it.
Then why are you here? Hm?
If you don’t wish to partake in the discussion on the merits and affects of sprint, and is so confident nothing will change, what drives you to post in this thread?
Why can’t people talk about sprint? Why are you and others wishing to silence it the deciding party on it?
And that affects you, how?
You’re confident enough that nothing will change but jump onto the opportunity to start hammering down on the discussion if it reappears.
Because it couldn’t be moved due to its massive size and it was in an aging forum with not as many frequent visitors as a new sub-forum was opened for a new game.
Right, and that’s why this Infinite sub-forum really didn’t see many locks on sprint threads, and advanced movement threads untill this one became a sort of Main one, and remained open, since then.
I also do not recall any poll or election on who decides which topics are pointless and which ones are worth discussing.
Same old same old.
And that’s really not for you to decide.
Of course they can do something about it.
But considering all the repetition and revisits, I’m not so inclined to believe you actually think they won’t change it.
This discussion is staying if enough people participate in it.
Accept it and deal with it.
Don’t like the thread / subject / topic? Don’t participate in it
Because YOU decide what people get to talk about and when?
So how many times are you going to repeat that?
The next time I see someone complaining about sprint being slow, I’ll tag you so you can come along and pull the same tired repetition you’ve pulled here. And tell them their feedback with pointless and worthless because the game released and it’s a done deal. Right?
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I want to throw this in right quick because I never see this discussed even tho, to me, it’s the whole point.
How fast one moves is not the fundamental principle behind sprint, but it’s about having a two-speed system: Traversal speed (cross the map quickly but with guns down) and combat speed (slower methodical dancing, guns up). Proper implementation minimizes time spent getting back into the action (H5 did it well because the shield recharge damper hindered running away), and I’m not sure why this is a bad thing. Removing Traversal speed means less time in combat, thus less overall engagement. No?
since the point of this discusion on this thread is doing notting any more to the game.
and it seems some people still not see it.
but its seems some people still not understand it that starting this discusion is doing notting to the game any more.
and so far that are the people that have post notting on this thread or any sprint discusion thread when the game was in development still.
since some people still think that halo infinite most be the same as halo 3 and most become more a halo 3.5 and notting new is welcome since its not good for then look a few post’s back then you see what i mean more with this quote.
the same point we have talk about on this thread in the 6k+ post’s about it so please explane to him then also that his point has been talk out and what the replay’s are back then when people told it more on this thread.
i am not a moderator so i not know the reason why its still open thats something you need to ask a moderator about it and there maybe wane explane it why its still open and not closed.
please do it if you see one comming up.
So your agenda is shutting down any discussion which is not in any way beneficial for the game’s development anymore?
You know, I think I’ve explained this concept to you three times already, in different ways.
Wanting a mechanic or two gone =/ wanting Halo 3.
And no one has explained what changes increases “sequelness” by a while half.
The numbering of Halo 4 and 5 must be way of considering all the implementations and retractions made between Halo 3, 4 and 5.
Nowhere in the quote you chose does it mention stagnating at Halo 3, no where. But you and others keep imagining that movement is the one and only thing which can be built on, atleast you give off that impression when it comes to the core of every single “you just want Halo 3” argument you manage to blurt out time and time again.
I don’t. Because there’s nothing there to suggest the game that poster wants would be a Halo 3 copy.
It’s the same tired theatrics of grasping at small threads here and there to make a “you just want Halo X again” argument.
And none of what you said comes even close to answering what I asked. What does it affect you if the discussion goes on?
I am no moderator either but I can tell you very surely that as long as the thread is about something about the game, it’s allowed to be open and discussion is encouraged regardless of the game’s progress in its development.
Because, there’s nothing in the guidelines or rules of the forum that topics on things which could be affected before release are prohibited.
Or can you find a paragraph on current forbidden game mechanic topics?
Map size is dictated by fastest default speed a player can achieve. Any traversal time is derived from that and as such sprint doesn’t really accomplish anything.
Maps being designed around sprint speeds affect combat speed, where you’re now utilising a slower speed than the maps were designed for, in order to do what you’re there to do, shoot stuff.
As mentioned above you get enlarged maps dictating how long it takes you to cross it. So any map designed not for sprint will have travel times comparable to that of a map designed for sprint. See Guardian and Haven, or Truth and Midship.
As such you don’t get minimized times but the times intended for you by the designer. No amount of new mechanics are going to change that.
No.
Because in terms of time between games, you’re not netting anything outside of what a designer wanted you to.
We could double sprint speed at the development phase of Halo 5, and maps would be even bigger to compensate the immense speed thus, you’d just travel farther in the same time on a map scaled for your speed.
Traversal speed is closely irrelevant as it is times between engagements which you’re looking at. The time is dictated by a designer by stretching or shrinking distances, that in turn is done by looking at how fast you’re going.
Lesser traversal times would mean smaller maps overall, and closer quarters giving a higher chance of encountering a player.
And that’s even before we consider power positions, routes, bottlenecks, points of interests and so forth. A maps “flow”, which isn’t really tied to a players traversal speed, but a form of “guide” on the map which “herds” players into certain directions.
I don’t have the sheets or anything like that at the moment, but Halo 3 was deemed to be slightly faster paced than Halo 5, having a slightly higher kills per minute. And Halo CE is still regarded to be one of the fastest paced Halos to date.
So, what have you gained?
What’s positive about all I’ve said? With separating movement and combat, what have you achieved? As everything is designed in a controlled environment, and around parameters in the game.
The gameplay experience it creates isn’t favourable for some players.
And keep in mind, i343 hasn’t really said anything about gameplay for Sprint.
It’s been about “player expectations” and “immersion / lore”.
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my question is more about is why keep it alive when notting is going to chance any more.
the developers know the points all and have make there choose about it all so why not deal with it and accept it that for some off then is not what there wane see.
that there are still some people that sprint needs to be gone for good is not going to happnig.
same for the one’s that wane see that sprint most stay like it was back in halo 4 and halo 5 but thats also not going to happing.
and then there are the one’s that wane see all the new stuff be remove more so there can really stop dreaming its going to happing.
so thats why i am thinking now more from why keep going with it when there use the middel solution for it.
This was never an issue that needed fixing though. I honestly feel like the non-sprint games (CE-3) have the shortest times back to action in the series. I still play H2/3 on MCC a ton and you almost always have a choice to jump immediately back into action. This goes into map design really, but maps in H3 like construct you may spawn in bottom center and you’re only like 10 steps from any of the three lifts where you can reach enemies above. Valhalla you jump into the mancannon and are immediately in center map (Or depending on the map variant can portal there as well). Guardian utilizes mancannons well on both sides. Maps like narrows, ghosttown, epitaph you always know where enemies will be and you’re never all that far away. Maps like high ground, last resort, sandtrap have a supply of vehicles to use if needed.
The games with sprint imo changed map design to require you to run back to the action, with less emphasis on lifts/mancannons/clever verticality to allow for you to spawn outside of gunfire, yet next to the action. On top of that, for any remakes they made, they stretched them out so that they require sprint.
H4/H5 always felt like less engagement to me, and longer traversal times.
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Because when it actually takes off it’s a good learning opportunity.
At other times, people get informed of how things are connected in terms of game design and misconceptions corrected.
Not only that but people like to discuss things.
If you put a cap on this discussion you better be prepared to make a proper list on all topics to put a cap on.
And if you single this one out specifically and only this one, then you better have something better to come with than “but nothing will change” because there sure crap load of different topics with no chance of changing anything circulating out there.
And as presented when this thread got unearthed, there are still people with massive misconceptions on a load of things.
Do you honestly believe anyone who’s lasted this long doesn’t know that? Do you honestly think anyone having lasted this long actually care?
If it changes, it changes, if it doesn’t then it doesn’t.
Other than that little scrap you’ve got nothing else to say on why this discussion shouldn’t continue.
This has nothing to do with why you feel obligated to shut down this discussion.
All you’ve given is that “it’s not going to change”.
Either stop with that, or, provide a list of different other topics which aren’t going to change either and go out reporting them on the forum, see how far that goes.
I’m fairly certain a moderator will be along to kindly inform you that all discussions on all topics pertaining to the game and its mechanics are allowed, no matter how many times and no matter for how long it’s been discussed before, as long as it adheres to the community guidelines.
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Classic gameplay = outdated gameplay
I think it’s reasonable to gather from everything we know that 343i’s inclusion of sprint isn’t for any functional reason (as far as traditional 4v4 arena is concerned). The 2016 GDC talk on Spartan Abilities is pretty transparent about the reasons (in Halo 5):
- Players expect sprint
- Warzone maps are big
There is no highbrow gameplay philosophical principle behind the inclusion of sprint.
The point you’re making about having a two-speed system has been discussed previously in this thread. And the standard argument against it is: what’s the point? What benefit is there from having a combat speed that is slower than traversal speed?
Your specific argument about time getting back into action doesn’t make sense, because that only depends on maximum speed (and is anyway relative to map design). Reducing the combat speed relative to traversal speed doesn’t magically decrease the time into action.
The thing I’ve been trying to say for years is that time to action, traversal times, and such are fundamentally a function of map design. If you want to ascribe some benefit to a two-speed system, don’t just talk about it in a vacuum. You need to connect it to map design somehow, and argue that it allows map designers to force specific gameplay scenarios they couldn’t with a one-speed system, and then convince us that those specific scenarios somehow lead to more interesting gameplay.
But you’re going to have a hard time convincing us, because the conventional wisdom is that having to juggle two modes of movement makes the map designer’s job harder, because with different transit and combat speeds, spaces designed for transit aren’t well-suited for combat and vice versa. In contrast, assuming that players can always move at maximum speed enables the design of multi-purpose spaces where any space has a scale that feels natural both for transit and combat.
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Explain how
20 characters
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