The return of classic movement mechanics?

Games Halo Infinite
6202

People say “what’s wrong with advanced mobility?” I say “because it creates more issues than it solves”.

Halo was better off without it. Watching Flight footage I could just be watching a future COD or future Battlefield or Titanfall 2. This is why, ever since Halo 3, Halo has struggled to retain such a dominating population count for years after release, because with the addition of advanced mobility as a player base mechanic it now is just too similar to the previously mentioned games. Halo doesn’t play like Halo anymore, as such it is not unique anymore.

6203

> 2533274844360320;6202:
> People say “what’s wrong with advanced mobility?” I say “because it creates more issues than it solves”.
>
> Halo was better off without it. Watching Flight footage I could just be watching a future COD or future Battlefield or Titanfall 2. This is why, ever since Halo 3, Halo has struggled to retain such a dominating population count for years after release, because with the addition of advanced mobility as a player base mechanic it now is just too similar to the previously mentioned games. Halo doesn’t play like Halo anymore, as such it is not unique anymore.

Halo: Reach was unique imo. Halo 4 and 5 were copy pastes of some other games admittedly. Halo Infinite has more unique things about it than 4 and 5 did though. Descope is back, aiming down sights has been toned down so that it doesn’t improve accuracy for weapons without scopes. If we can just get the radar to show walking movement in either a cone in front of you or at a reduced range compared to sprinting (or both) I think we’ll have a modern Halo game that is still classic Halo.

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> > > > > > > I will miss the thrusters and I have told tsassi that I thought that was going to be the one thing to carry over but sadly not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What are your opinions on H5’s other “Spartan Abilities” like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, or Stabilizers? Are you sad to see them (apparently) gone?
> > >
> > > I know you prefer halo without Sprint so I’m assuming you hated halo 5 correct?
> >
> > TL;DR- I dislike & was disappointed by H5 for more reasons than just Sprint’s inclusion.
>
> I did actually enjoy halo 5. I mainly played arena, only played warzone to get ready points for armor.
>
> I enjoyed even starts and how competitive the game felt. Something we havent had since halo 3. It mailed all my halo needs and expectations of a halo game so I actually enjoyed it alot. There were some things like Spartan charge that bothered me but I was happy with almost everything else.
>
> Going to infinite, I think they really nailed it on the head with a great balance between old and new. So for me halo infinite is shaping up to take top spot in my eyes. The things I want changed are just balance changes and tweaks. Time will tell.
>
> My biggest concern for Infinite is content. They have been talking about it being a live service constantly. They also announced assassinations coming after launch. I’m worried only BTB and arena will be their at launch and it’s not enough.

I agree that Infinite looks to be a solid compromise between old & new and I am looking forward to playing more of it, warts and all (or maybe worts and all?).

After the state of Halo 5’s launch (Campaign, four Arena modes, three Warzone maps, no Firefight or Forge), I can definitely share your concern for Infinite having a similar release. I hope 343i aren’t trying to use unlockable customization options as a substitute for more varied ways to play the game.

Considering your fondness for Halo 5, I’m curious to hear your perspective on Reach and H4. What did you think of the Armor Abilities? Preset and personal loadouts? Personal ordnance? How they implemented Sprint?

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> > > > > > > > I will miss the thrusters and I have told tsassi that I thought that was going to be the one thing to carry over but sadly not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What are your opinions on H5’s other “Spartan Abilities” like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, or Stabilizers? Are you sad to see them (apparently) gone?
> > > >
> > > > I know you prefer halo without Sprint so I’m assuming you hated halo 5 correct?
> > >
> > > TL;DR- I dislike & was disappointed by H5 for more reasons than just Sprint’s inclusion.
> >
> > I did actually enjoy halo 5. I mainly played arena, only played warzone to get ready points for armor.
> >
> > I enjoyed even starts and how competitive the game felt. Something we havent had since halo 3. It mailed all my halo needs and expectations of a halo game so I actually enjoyed it alot. There were some things like Spartan charge that bothered me but I was happy with almost everything else.
> >
> > Going to infinite, I think they really nailed it on the head with a great balance between old and new. So for me halo infinite is shaping up to take top spot in my eyes. The things I want changed are just balance changes and tweaks. Time will tell.
> >
> > My biggest concern for Infinite is content. They have been talking about it being a live service constantly. They also announced assassinations coming after launch. I’m worried only BTB and arena will be their at launch and it’s not enough.
>
> I agree that Infinite looks to be a solid compromise between old & new and I am looking forward to playing more of it, warts and all (or maybe worts and all?).
>
> After the state of Halo 5’s launch (Campaign, four Arena modes, three Warzone maps, no Firefight or Forge), I can definitely share your concern for Infinite having a similar release. I hope 343i aren’t trying to use unlockable customization options as a substitute for more varied ways to play the game.
>
> Considering your fondness for Halo 5, I’m curious to hear your perspective on Reach and H4. What did you think of the Armor Abilities? Preset and personal loadouts? Personal ordnance? How they implemented Sprint?

Halo reach was a fun halo game, just not competitive enough for my liking. No even starts do to armor abilites was a let down for me. I did not like armor lock because it always interfered with combat. Lastly, bloom was poorly implemented. In reach I felt it was to have randomness so a less skilled player has a better chance. I feel bloom in infinite however is implemented to restrict the effective range of a weapon. It was fun but I always like to play ranked and felt let down in that department.

Halo 4 was my least favorite halo multiplayer. Sprint was poorly implemented. People could actually run away from gunfights. No even starts, rather, make your own class with perks. This was crazy for halo. I felt the armor abilites in halo 4 we’re useless (other than hologram). Thrusters were bad and the shield was bad. Promethean vision was annoying specially when coupled with the bolt shot. To me, halo did not tick my foundations of what makes a Halo game. For me, it must have most of these things to be a Halo game. Even starts, map pickups only (no ordinance), focus on map control and map traversal, focus on skill around precision weapons, strong sandbox, and fluidity between melee, shootouts, and grenades. Halo 4 was lacking way to many of these things for me and it’s why I hardly say it’s a Halo game. It was in alot of ways an evolution of halo reach. Reach however still had a good sandbox in my opinion which is why it was fun to play. While I enjoyed it for casual play that was about it. For me halo 5 was a huge step back to form coming from reach and halo 4 for those reasons.

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> > > > > > > > > I will miss the thrusters and I have told tsassi that I thought that was going to be the one thing to carry over but sadly not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are your opinions on H5’s other “Spartan Abilities” like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, or Stabilizers? Are you sad to see them (apparently) gone?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know you prefer halo without Sprint so I’m assuming you hated halo 5 correct?
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR- I dislike & was disappointed by H5 for more reasons than just Sprint’s inclusion.
> >
> > Considering your fondness for Halo 5, I’m curious to hear your perspective on Reach and H4. What did you think of the Armor Abilities? Preset and personal loadouts? Personal ordnance? How they implemented Sprint?
>
> Halo reach was a fun halo game, just not competitive enough for my liking. No even starts do to armor abilites was a let down for me. I did not like armor lock because it always interfered with combat. Lastly, bloom was poorly implemented. In reach I felt it was to have randomness so a less skilled player has a better chance. I feel bloom in infinite however is implemented to restrict the effective range of a weapon. It was fun but I always like to play ranked and felt let down in that department.
>
> Halo 4 was my least favorite halo multiplayer. Sprint was poorly implemented. People could actually run away from gunfights. No even starts, rather, make your own class with perks. This was crazy for halo. I felt the armor abilites in halo 4 we’re useless (other than hologram). Thrusters were bad and the shield was bad. Promethean vision was annoying specially when coupled with the bolt shot. To me, halo did not tick my foundations of what makes a Halo game. For me, it must have most of these things to be a Halo game. Even starts, map pickups only (no ordinance), focus on map control and map traversal, focus on skill around precision weapons, strong sandbox, and fluidity between melee, shootouts, and grenades. Halo 4 was lacking way to many of these things for me and it’s why I hardly say it’s a Halo game. It was in alot of ways an evolution of halo reach. Reach however still had a good sandbox in my opinion which is why it was fun to play. While I enjoyed it for casual play that was about it. For me halo 5 was a huge step back to form coming from reach and halo 4 for those reasons.

I enjoyed Reach for what it was, but (as you said) certain things like the pronounced bloom on the game’s premiere precision weapon and the way Armor Abilities were implemented as loadout options made it hard to take seriously.

Armor Lock is a meme at this point, and I’ve wondered why Bungie gave it such a long duration. Imagine an Armor Lock that only lasted about a second, maintained a first-person perspective, and maybe could be activated in midair to negate fall damage (giving it a utility in map traversal).

For me, Halo 4 takes the cake as the least “Halo” game in the series so it’s nice to see you agree. The sandbox had too many direct counterparts, due in part because of the personal loadout system. Personal ordnance greatly diminished map control and strategy, since you can never really know when your opponents can materialize a power weapon or even which weapon it will be. Personal loadouts (especially w/ perks) had a similar effect, as you now had no way of knowing what your opponent was capable of. 343i mistakenly addressed the criticism of AAs by diminishing the effects they have on gameplay, rather than how players could access them.

Trying to stay on the topic of this thread, did you like how 343i rebalanced Sprint in H5? Being able to get shot out of it when starting? The shield recharge delay? Do you have any mixed feelings on how Infinite has stepped away from that?

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> I do not like slide in Halo Infinite. My main gripe is that it is a base ability that we might see a lot of. I don’t want to see the character model in this position much at all. I would like to see the character model in an upright position as much as possible.

Why do you want to see the character model in an upright position as much as possible? Do you object to crouching being a base ability?

I favor Halo’s “classic” movement style, but sliding seems like reasonable and inoffensive development of crouching; one that can take map geometry and player momentum into account to allow for some actually advanced mobility maneuvers.

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> > > > > > > > > > I will miss the thrusters and I have told tsassi that I thought that was going to be the one thing to carry over but sadly not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are your opinions on H5’s other “Spartan Abilities” like Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, or Stabilizers? Are you sad to see them (apparently) gone?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you prefer halo without Sprint so I’m assuming you hated halo 5 correct?
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR- I dislike & was disappointed by H5 for more reasons than just Sprint’s inclusion.
>
> Trying to stay on the topic of this thread, did you like how 343i rebalanced Sprint in H5? Being able to get shot out of it when starting? The shield recharge delay? Do you have any mixed feelings on how Infinite has stepped away from that?

I think sprint in halo 5 was perfectly implemented for high level play. Sprint in halo 5 also fixed some of the complaints coming from reach and halo 4. When looking at low level play, sprint was a huge nerf and underpowered. The benefits of sprint in halo 5 came when combined with other armor abilities which just isn’t seen in lower level play.

Being able to get shot out of sprint (also getting slowed down if getting shot while already sprinting) has raised the skill floor for in halo 5. In halo reach and halo 4, someone can sprint away from a fight. This took no thought and was extremely effective in lower level play where a players aim and general knowledge was not the best. In halo 5, it simply could not be done and you had to fight back as you would in classic halo. So I feel sprint lowered the skill floor in reach and halo 4, this aspect in halo 5 raised it. This was also crucial to keep higher level players from spamming advanced mechanics.

Now moving on to the recharge delay, I also think this raised the skill floor. Delaying shield recharge is always risky. Again, at low level play, general knowledge of the games mechanics, flow, and map traversal is limited. Often times leading to scenarios where they sprint in the wrong area and get picked off or decide to settle down in an unsafe area that’s easily accessible. For high level play, it’s different, it raised the skill ceiling in my eyes. There are just some gunfights in halo where you cannot win and must retreat. Often times in classic halo. It’s as simple as turning a corner. This was not hard to come by because most classic arena maps had many corners/obstacles as cover due to not having sprint. Now since the person retreating moves the same speed as the attacker, there is no way for the attacker to close the gap. This made it more difficult for the attacker to get the kill due to a lack of options. In halo 5, the attacker can close down ground using sprint. Keep in mind, the person retreating now has to be able to either defend himself, stall (often the case in classic halo), or just sprint away. Sprinting away will have its risks and you will only escape assuming you are fully aware of players positioning and your own map traversal. I feel this took halo 5 skill ceiling up.

Now for Halo Infinite, we don’t know what will happen. It has been confirmed there will be no grenade hit markers in ranked play. Now I’m sure there will be other differences and maybe no recharge with sprint is one of them. Overall, sprint is not much faster than base movement speed and it is only going to be connect with slide now. In many ways it is not going to be detrimental to gunfights like it was in halo 4 and reach. I did not have a single player sprint away from me in PvP from the flight. So I feel it may be overkill to have a recharge delay on top of the way the radar functions. If those are the final settings then I much prefer to just bump base movement speed to Sprint speed. If the recharge delay is not there, I would like to try both radar types.

Overall, I feel sprint in infinite is not intrusive to the gunfights and will allow for a more classic map design and flow approach. At the same time, it will have some benefits when used correctly even if it’s minor compared to before. I think it’s the best way to make a compromise for both old and new to be happy.

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> > 2533274844360320;6202:
> > People say “what’s wrong with advanced mobility?” I say “because it creates more issues than it solves”.
> >
> > Halo was better off without it. Watching Flight footage I could just be watching a future COD or future Battlefield or Titanfall 2. This is why, ever since Halo 3, Halo has struggled to retain such a dominating population count for years after release, because with the addition of advanced mobility as a player base mechanic it now is just too similar to the previously mentioned games. Halo doesn’t play like Halo anymore, as such it is not unique anymore.
>
> Halo: Reach was unique imo. Halo 4 and 5 were copy pastes of some other games admittedly. Halo Infinite has more unique things about it than 4 and 5 did though. Descope is back, aiming down sights has been toned down so that it doesn’t improve accuracy for weapons without scopes. If we can just get the radar to show walking movement in either a cone in front of you or at a reduced range compared to sprinting (or both) I think we’ll have a modern Halo game that is still classic Halo.

What I actually said was advanced mobility added as a “base mechanic”. Reach did not add advanced mobility as a base mechanic and this helped maintain the more arena shooter “Haloy” game-play feel, and it’s this feel which is what makes Halo games of old more unique.
Regarding Infinite, I like much about what 343 have done with it and it’s seeming like a step in the right direction from where halo 4 & 5 left the series.

Again, to reiterate, advanced mobility (should probably be calling it enhanced mobility) creates more issues in Halo than it solves and I would argue is the 343 change most responsible for blending Halo in with other FPS.

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> > > 2533274844360320;6202:
> > > People say “what’s wrong with advanced mobility?” I say “because it creates more issues than it solves”.
> > >
> > > Halo was better off without it. Watching Flight footage I could just be watching a future COD or future Battlefield or Titanfall 2. This is why, ever since Halo 3, Halo has struggled to retain such a dominating population count for years after release, because with the addition of advanced mobility as a player base mechanic it now is just too similar to the previously mentioned games. Halo doesn’t play like Halo anymore, as such it is not unique anymore.
> >
> > Halo: Reach was unique imo. Halo 4 and 5 were copy pastes of some other games admittedly. Halo Infinite has more unique things about it than 4 and 5 did though. Descope is back, aiming down sights has been toned down so that it doesn’t improve accuracy for weapons without scopes. If we can just get the radar to show walking movement in either a cone in front of you or at a reduced range compared to sprinting (or both) I think we’ll have a modern Halo game that is still classic Halo.
>
> What I actually said was advanced mobility added as a “base mechanic”. Reach did not add advanced mobility as a base mechanic and this helped maintain the more arena shooter “Haloy” game-play feel, and it’s this feel which is what makes Halo games of old more unique.
> Regarding Infinite, I like much about what 343 have done with it and it’s seeming like a step in the right direction from where halo 4 & 5 left the series.
>
> Again, to reiterate, advanced mobility (should probably be calling it enhanced mobility) creates more issues in Halo than it solves and I would argue is the 343 change most responsible for blending Halo in with other FPS.

I think that Reach having sprint, jetpack, and evade, as well as having bloom, was something that divided the community. Many people cried “this is not classic halo!” and will continue to do so. At least until 343 copy-pastes Halo 3? Or maybe Halo 2 or Halo CE idk how far back people see as being classic halo. I don’t want 343 to copy paste Halo 3 with a new coat of paint, and I can’t think of many ways to innovate past Halo 3 without causing some controversy. I think Reach was the right direction for the series to take, while Halo 4 and 5 have been steps back. Halo Infinite is honestly what Halo 4 should have been. The movement mechanics are surprisingly mild or are consumable items, like the Halo 3 gravity lift. The biggest mistake Reach made was making equipment something powerful that you simply spawn with and have unlimited uses for, rather than something to fight over on the map, that you can only use a limited number of times and the must wait for to respawn so you can fight over it again. This made Reach very campy in team slayer modes. The biggest strength of classic Halo is having power weapon spawns as a form of objective in slayer matches, because Team Deathmatch with no objectives is just a campfest after a lead is established. Halo 4 simply dialed up Reach to 11 with so much innate power that fighting over power weapons in a slayer match was an afterthought. You can literally spawn a power weapon on top of you. That is Call of Duty, not Halo. Halo 5 continued to promote this non-Halo style by making your starting weapons quite powerful, along with spartan charge/ground pound, as well as thrusters as a way to easily correct poor positioning. None of this is Halo. To me, poor positioning should be punishable in Halo. Infinite on the other hand, does not seem to have much innate power in the spartan, or get out of jail free cards. Sprint is a mild speed boost for traversing long distances quicker, not an offensive or escape tool. Slide can help you get to cover, but it’s nowhere near as instantaneous as thrusters. It’s not something you can easily do mid shooting. You have to turn and sprint away, and then slide. It’s only if you’re already sprinting that sliding becomes an quick escape or offensive tool, which is fine with me because sprinting shows up on radar, is relatively slow, and prevents you from shooting instantly with most weapons. The tradeoff is pretty big, unlike Halo 4 and 5 where it’s a much larger speed boost and much less of a tradeoff. The only change I would make to sprint right now is that the sidekick should also suffer from firing delay when sprinting.

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I do think 343 has plans for a playlist with classic movement mechanics for Halo infinite? like Mythic Arena. but without the thrust of course.

6212

Or, instead of Sprint, a ‘Boost.’ Which is basically a shoulder bash, dealing damage when hitting somebody, with a recharge of around 30 seconds.

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> 2533274866720209;6210:
> It’s only if you’re already sprinting that sliding becomes an quick escape or offensive tool, which is fine with me because sprinting shows up on radar, is relatively slow, and prevents you from shooting instantly with most weapons.

I’ve tried testing this and that part doesn’t seem to be true after Halo 5, you could immdiately shoot out of sprint with most weapons and unlike Halo 5, you even get a tiny dot that serves as a semblence for aiming.

Tested with the Rocket Launcher and the Bulldog, the former of which most people would describe as an “unwieldy” weapon in most cases.

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> > It’s only if you’re already sprinting that sliding becomes an quick escape or offensive tool, which is fine with me because sprinting shows up on radar, is relatively slow, and prevents you from shooting instantly with most weapons.
>
> I’ve tried testing this and that part doesn’t seem to be true after Halo 5, you could immdiately shoot out of sprint with most weapons and unlike Halo 5, you even get a tiny dot that serves as a semblence for aiming.
>
> Tested with the Rocket Launcher and the Bulldog, the former of which most people would describe as an “unwieldy” weapon in most cases.

I did notice in the flight that the sidekick and bulldog had no firing delay while sprinting. The assault rifle also had inconsistent firing delay from sprinting, sometimes I could shoot instantly, sometimes there was a delay. With other weapons I wasn’t able to get rid of firing delay, but it seems that the Rocket launcher doesn’t have firing delay either? I don’t think I paid attention to sprint firing delay when I had rockets but it’s definitely weird that the rocket launcher has no firing delay from sprint.

I really don’t understand why sprint firing delay was inconsistent in the flight. I just figured it was a bug for the AR, and either a bug or a feature for the other weapons, but either way, I don’t think any weapon should be able to fire instantly from sprinting. Hopefully 343 fixes/changes it in time for release.

6215

Classic Movement With Sprinting & Sliding

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> 2533274856300271;4:
> Halo armor from 2-3 and old school art style and being back on the Halo, halo is going back to old school style.

yes and this is what we have always wanted.

6217

Sprint is in the game too bad soo sad xD

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> 2535410135869421;6217:
> Sprint is in the game too bad soo sad xD

Thank you for your incredibly useful and constructive comment. Your input is greatly valued.

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> 2535449076192416;6218:
> > 2535410135869421;6217:
> > Sprint is in the game too bad soo sad xD
>
> Thank you for your incredibly useful and constructive comment. Your input is greatly valued.

your welcome

6220

Bump, because I want to revisit this now that more people have access to the second Infinite Flight.

IMO, I still think it’s a waste to have Sprint as the sole use of a button instead of Armor Abilities, especially with how negligible the boost is in current maps. If Sprint was an Armor Ability, even if it was part of the default Loadout, it’d solve some of the problems the current system presents for being “Infinite” in terms of Custom Games without Forge. The other problems include the lack of Dual-Wielding, Loadouts, and Ordnance Drops. I wouldn’t want those in 4v4 and smaller game modes, but they introduced a lot of fun game mode possibilities in Customs for 3, Reach, 4, and 2 Anniversary.

6221

'Bout time to resurrect the most important thread on this forum. If we could get away from every “modern” movement mechanic Halo could start to regain the prominence it lost over the last 10 years.

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